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employment law - annual leave owed 19:12 - Nov 6 with 1548 viewsjack_lord

Anyone have a definitive answer?

I am owed 6 days and I am in my notice period. I need to take the time because I am moving house. My company say that I can't and that they will pay me in lieu of what I am owed.

I don't want the money, I worked for the annual leave and would have booked it off if I was staying.

All getting very stressful here.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:15 - Nov 6 with 1084 viewsFireboy2

Im sorry that im no expert JL but im certain you can take the days you are owed as time off, they cant force you to work them.

Just googled and advice stated that an employee can take their annual leave in their notice period, just make sure that you know exactly how much you have accrued.
[Post edited 6 Nov 19:21]

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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:22 - Nov 6 with 1054 views3swan

As i understood it was only with agreement, not sure if it's still the case


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/redundancy/redundancy-notic

Holiday in your notice period
You can ask to take holiday during your notice period, but it’s up to your employer to decide if you can take it then. You’ll be paid for any holiday you have left over when you leave.

If you do go on holiday in your notice period you’re entitled to your usual wage.

If you get contractual holiday, you’ll need to check what your contract says about holiday.



https://www.xperthr.co.uk/faq/can-an-employer-refuse-a-request-for-annual-leave-

Can an employer refuse a request for annual leave during an employee's notice period?
Yes. As at any other time, the employer can consider whether or not the employee's request for annual leave is compatible with the needs of the business and can refuse it, as long as it does so in line with its annual leave policy. The employer should act reasonably when considering the request. It should also take into account that it will have to pay the employee in lieu of any untaken holiday entitlement on the termination of their employment. Therefore, it may be cost effective for the employer to allow the employee to take holiday during their notice period.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:29 - Nov 6 with 1026 viewsFireboy2

employment law - annual leave owed on 19:22 - Nov 6 by 3swan

As i understood it was only with agreement, not sure if it's still the case


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/redundancy/redundancy-notic

Holiday in your notice period
You can ask to take holiday during your notice period, but it’s up to your employer to decide if you can take it then. You’ll be paid for any holiday you have left over when you leave.

If you do go on holiday in your notice period you’re entitled to your usual wage.

If you get contractual holiday, you’ll need to check what your contract says about holiday.



https://www.xperthr.co.uk/faq/can-an-employer-refuse-a-request-for-annual-leave-

Can an employer refuse a request for annual leave during an employee's notice period?
Yes. As at any other time, the employer can consider whether or not the employee's request for annual leave is compatible with the needs of the business and can refuse it, as long as it does so in line with its annual leave policy. The employer should act reasonably when considering the request. It should also take into account that it will have to pay the employee in lieu of any untaken holiday entitlement on the termination of their employment. Therefore, it may be cost effective for the employer to allow the employee to take holiday during their notice period.


Oh well that contradicts the advce ive just read.

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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:36 - Nov 6 with 1007 views3swan

employment law - annual leave owed on 19:29 - Nov 6 by Fireboy2

Oh well that contradicts the advce ive just read.


I'm a bit out of date on these things but the answer is yes but only if the company agrees.

Looks like that is the case

Again but from 2015

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/notice-periods-uk-law-top-10-questions-from-hr


7. Can an employee insist on taking holidays during the notice period?
Yes, as long as the employee has accrued untaken leave and gives reasonable notice. The employer can refuse a request for annual leave for valid business reasons.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:54 - Nov 6 with 966 views3swan

Just in case things have changed you can get advice from ACAS

The Acas Helpline number is 0300 123 1100.


https://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3282
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employment law - annual leave owed on 19:58 - Nov 6 with 960 viewsjack_lord

employment law - annual leave owed on 19:36 - Nov 6 by 3swan

I'm a bit out of date on these things but the answer is yes but only if the company agrees.

Looks like that is the case

Again but from 2015

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/notice-periods-uk-law-top-10-questions-from-hr


7. Can an employee insist on taking holidays during the notice period?
Yes, as long as the employee has accrued untaken leave and gives reasonable notice. The employer can refuse a request for annual leave for valid business reasons.


So an employee can insist on taking the leave but an employer can refuse on Business grounds.
I can guarantee that they will cite business reasons while I am insisting I must take them. They know I am moving house and it is all very stressful. How the f ucking f ock am I expected to do this when I am working 7 days straight before we move and just before I start my new job.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
Poll: The E U : Stay or Leave

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employment law - annual leave owed on 20:00 - Nov 6 with 954 views3swan

employment law - annual leave owed on 19:58 - Nov 6 by jack_lord

So an employee can insist on taking the leave but an employer can refuse on Business grounds.
I can guarantee that they will cite business reasons while I am insisting I must take them. They know I am moving house and it is all very stressful. How the f ucking f ock am I expected to do this when I am working 7 days straight before we move and just before I start my new job.


Not the answer you needed but my knowledge is a few years old.

Best try ACAS they will give you the definitive answer
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employment law - annual leave owed on 20:20 - Nov 6 with 917 viewsfelixstowe_jack

employment law - annual leave owed on 19:58 - Nov 6 by jack_lord

So an employee can insist on taking the leave but an employer can refuse on Business grounds.
I can guarantee that they will cite business reasons while I am insisting I must take them. They know I am moving house and it is all very stressful. How the f ucking f ock am I expected to do this when I am working 7 days straight before we move and just before I start my new job.


Just call in sick due to stress and employer bullying.

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employment law - annual leave owed on 20:55 - Nov 6 with 871 viewscontroversial_jack

Go sick, and you get the time paid to you too, win win
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employment law - annual leave owed on 21:04 - Nov 6 with 855 viewslondonlisa2001

To the OP.

They do not have to allow your time off in your notice period if there is a valid business reason for not doing so. It’s easier for them to say it’s a valid reason if you’re about to leave as they’ll say they need a hand over or similar. They do have to pay you instead. If you had booked the holiday previously and they changed their minds because you resigned, that would be far harder for them as you could potentially claim for costs of rearranging moving or doing it differently.

Btw - the people advising you to take sick leave - you’ve asked for the leave and been refused (I assume). Taking sick leave would be pretty stupid. Far better to sit down with your boss and attempt to come to a compromise, say half and half. If you’ve resigned on good terms they should be able to compromise. If you haven’t, that’s difficult.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 21:12 - Nov 6 with 831 viewsFireboy2

employment law - annual leave owed on 21:04 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

To the OP.

They do not have to allow your time off in your notice period if there is a valid business reason for not doing so. It’s easier for them to say it’s a valid reason if you’re about to leave as they’ll say they need a hand over or similar. They do have to pay you instead. If you had booked the holiday previously and they changed their minds because you resigned, that would be far harder for them as you could potentially claim for costs of rearranging moving or doing it differently.

Btw - the people advising you to take sick leave - you’ve asked for the leave and been refused (I assume). Taking sick leave would be pretty stupid. Far better to sit down with your boss and attempt to come to a compromise, say half and half. If you’ve resigned on good terms they should be able to compromise. If you haven’t, that’s difficult.


Not being awkward lisa but if hes got an impending house move and his boss wont let him have the time off then i cant see any other way, but as you say he should try and come to a compromise with his boss as that would be the best way forward.

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employment law - annual leave owed on 21:21 - Nov 6 with 813 viewsjack_lord

employment law - annual leave owed on 21:04 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

To the OP.

They do not have to allow your time off in your notice period if there is a valid business reason for not doing so. It’s easier for them to say it’s a valid reason if you’re about to leave as they’ll say they need a hand over or similar. They do have to pay you instead. If you had booked the holiday previously and they changed their minds because you resigned, that would be far harder for them as you could potentially claim for costs of rearranging moving or doing it differently.

Btw - the people advising you to take sick leave - you’ve asked for the leave and been refused (I assume). Taking sick leave would be pretty stupid. Far better to sit down with your boss and attempt to come to a compromise, say half and half. If you’ve resigned on good terms they should be able to compromise. If you haven’t, that’s difficult.


I handed my notice in on the 22 of October. I said straight away that I was moving in the week commencing the 18th of November and I was owed 6 days that I would have booked off. The timing is awful.
I have worked for the company for fifteen years and they have made some attempt to retain my services. They have even said, unofficially, that if I wasn't leaving that they would grant the leave.
My manager has said that I have to work all my notice which is completely ludicrous as my wife has taken annual leave (obviously as we are moving) I have rented a van and also have to organise the family moving in to our house (which I am renting out).
It is stressful leaving my job after such a period of time but to add in the house move with the added complications it is becoming too stressful. I struggled to sleep last night.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
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employment law - annual leave owed on 21:43 - Nov 6 with 790 viewslondonlisa2001

employment law - annual leave owed on 21:21 - Nov 6 by jack_lord

I handed my notice in on the 22 of October. I said straight away that I was moving in the week commencing the 18th of November and I was owed 6 days that I would have booked off. The timing is awful.
I have worked for the company for fifteen years and they have made some attempt to retain my services. They have even said, unofficially, that if I wasn't leaving that they would grant the leave.
My manager has said that I have to work all my notice which is completely ludicrous as my wife has taken annual leave (obviously as we are moving) I have rented a van and also have to organise the family moving in to our house (which I am renting out).
It is stressful leaving my job after such a period of time but to add in the house move with the added complications it is becoming too stressful. I struggled to sleep last night.


“They have even said, unofficially, that if I wasn't leaving that they would grant the leave. ”

Now that is illegal. They can’t discriminate. The issue is that you presumably don’t have proof?

I don’t know how big your company is but do you have an HR department or an HR manager?

If I were you, I’d try to reason with your manager and if no joy ask for a meeting with HR and explain what has happened. Ask the company to explain EXACTLY in writing what the business reason is for you being unable to take a week off before you meet HR. Make notes of any conversations you’ve had (including the one where they said you’d have been able to take time off if you’d stayed). Explain that you believe they are being difficult because they are annoyed you are leaving. Don’t forget you can have someone with you.

I understand the stress element. My counsel about sick leave is that if the company are being awkward they can take that further (they may choose not to, of course). If you require a reference now or in future that may be difficult. Better to attempt to resolve it amicably. Always.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:08 - Nov 6 with 753 views3swan

employment law - annual leave owed on 21:43 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

“They have even said, unofficially, that if I wasn't leaving that they would grant the leave. ”

Now that is illegal. They can’t discriminate. The issue is that you presumably don’t have proof?

I don’t know how big your company is but do you have an HR department or an HR manager?

If I were you, I’d try to reason with your manager and if no joy ask for a meeting with HR and explain what has happened. Ask the company to explain EXACTLY in writing what the business reason is for you being unable to take a week off before you meet HR. Make notes of any conversations you’ve had (including the one where they said you’d have been able to take time off if you’d stayed). Explain that you believe they are being difficult because they are annoyed you are leaving. Don’t forget you can have someone with you.

I understand the stress element. My counsel about sick leave is that if the company are being awkward they can take that further (they may choose not to, of course). If you require a reference now or in future that may be difficult. Better to attempt to resolve it amicably. Always.


Pretty stupid of them to say even unofficially that they would have granted the leave if he was staying. Not sure if it would be classed as discrimination as they would argue that circumstances were different and that he would have returned after the house move to clear any workload while he was off.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:14 - Nov 6 with 741 viewslondonlisa2001

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:08 - Nov 6 by 3swan

Pretty stupid of them to say even unofficially that they would have granted the leave if he was staying. Not sure if it would be classed as discrimination as they would argue that circumstances were different and that he would have returned after the house move to clear any workload while he was off.


You’re not allowed under employment law to treat people differently just because they’ve resigned. The period of notice given (which seems to be more than a month) should be more than enough to carry out a proper handover. I guess they could argue that they can’t find a replacement in that time, so need the cover for as long as possible. If they are not replacing but covering the workload from existing resources, or are replacing internally, that’s an excuse that can’t be used.

Normally everyone can agree a sensible compromise, particularly after such a long period with the company. It seems very odd behaviour - they’re obviously very upset at the resignation. Or are just spiteful for the sake of it. It may be different when HR are involved as it any be the boss that’s the problem and the company as a whole wouldn’t be so much.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:21 - Nov 6 with 726 viewsjack_lord

employment law - annual leave owed on 21:43 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

“They have even said, unofficially, that if I wasn't leaving that they would grant the leave. ”

Now that is illegal. They can’t discriminate. The issue is that you presumably don’t have proof?

I don’t know how big your company is but do you have an HR department or an HR manager?

If I were you, I’d try to reason with your manager and if no joy ask for a meeting with HR and explain what has happened. Ask the company to explain EXACTLY in writing what the business reason is for you being unable to take a week off before you meet HR. Make notes of any conversations you’ve had (including the one where they said you’d have been able to take time off if you’d stayed). Explain that you believe they are being difficult because they are annoyed you are leaving. Don’t forget you can have someone with you.

I understand the stress element. My counsel about sick leave is that if the company are being awkward they can take that further (they may choose not to, of course). If you require a reference now or in future that may be difficult. Better to attempt to resolve it amicably. Always.


Thank you for the response.

My company is based in Derby. Has approximately 250-500 employees. We have a HR department. When I spoke to HR about my notice period they did say that it was our peak period which it has always been. Strangely quiet this year though.

I am a field engineer based at home in the Swansea area so meetings are more difficult.

I very rarely take sick leave.

My manager has basically washed his hands with it saying we cant let numbers drop below "the red line" in areas. I understand business needs but I am leaving because, after years of loyalty I have just got fed up of broken promises of pay rises. One pay rise in 7 years is just not acceptable. Unfortunately, I happen to be moving and that is happening and because of this complication, one visit to the Doctors will see my time out. This is not how I want to finish with the company as I don't want bad feeling of any future complication with any reference.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
Poll: The E U : Stay or Leave

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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:22 - Nov 6 with 725 views3swan

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:14 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

You’re not allowed under employment law to treat people differently just because they’ve resigned. The period of notice given (which seems to be more than a month) should be more than enough to carry out a proper handover. I guess they could argue that they can’t find a replacement in that time, so need the cover for as long as possible. If they are not replacing but covering the workload from existing resources, or are replacing internally, that’s an excuse that can’t be used.

Normally everyone can agree a sensible compromise, particularly after such a long period with the company. It seems very odd behaviour - they’re obviously very upset at the resignation. Or are just spiteful for the sake of it. It may be different when HR are involved as it any be the boss that’s the problem and the company as a whole wouldn’t be so much.


Agree with all of that but as I said they would argue that they aren't treating any different as a person returning after leave is different to someone that's not. It will also depend how precise the contract is. I still think his best bet is to talk to Acas as they don't get involved and is confidential but will give him advise which he can act on when trying to sort with HR or his manager
[Post edited 6 Nov 22:24]
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:30 - Nov 6 with 697 viewslondonlisa2001

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:21 - Nov 6 by jack_lord

Thank you for the response.

My company is based in Derby. Has approximately 250-500 employees. We have a HR department. When I spoke to HR about my notice period they did say that it was our peak period which it has always been. Strangely quiet this year though.

I am a field engineer based at home in the Swansea area so meetings are more difficult.

I very rarely take sick leave.

My manager has basically washed his hands with it saying we cant let numbers drop below "the red line" in areas. I understand business needs but I am leaving because, after years of loyalty I have just got fed up of broken promises of pay rises. One pay rise in 7 years is just not acceptable. Unfortunately, I happen to be moving and that is happening and because of this complication, one visit to the Doctors will see my time out. This is not how I want to finish with the company as I don't want bad feeling of any future complication with any reference.


Ah ok. Now I understand their issue then given you are presumably the cover for that area.

Makes it even more interesting if they’ve said they could have covered leave if you were not resigning. How would they have done that?

HR can perhaps meet with you via phone or Skype?

If you possibly can arrange a solution amicably it’s always the best thing to do. Good luck.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:32 - Nov 6 with 695 viewslondonlisa2001

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:22 - Nov 6 by 3swan

Agree with all of that but as I said they would argue that they aren't treating any different as a person returning after leave is different to someone that's not. It will also depend how precise the contract is. I still think his best bet is to talk to Acas as they don't get involved and is confidential but will give him advise which he can act on when trying to sort with HR or his manager
[Post edited 6 Nov 22:24]


Always worth speaking with an independent body to gain advice where possible. Good idea to do that.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 22:46 - Nov 6 with 673 viewsjack_lord

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:30 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001

Ah ok. Now I understand their issue then given you are presumably the cover for that area.

Makes it even more interesting if they’ve said they could have covered leave if you were not resigning. How would they have done that?

HR can perhaps meet with you via phone or Skype?

If you possibly can arrange a solution amicably it’s always the best thing to do. Good luck.


Thank you.

I am the furthest west of engineers. I cover west east and north of my home. When I am off, the engineer who lives near Cardiff will then have to cover calls that are raised in that part of the territory and if he is moved west then the guy to his east will move across.

This will happen when I leave as it will take a while to recruit and train a replacement to be field ready. I was recruited from IBM as they had taken on former IBM contracts and knew more than the engineer training me. The world has changed a fair bit in fifteen years though.

Fifteen years and they can't be gracious to appreciate my service, and times I have covered calls when engineers are not qualified to work on certain kit and especially when I need the time to organise my personal life.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
Poll: The E U : Stay or Leave

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employment law - annual leave owed on 23:43 - Nov 6 with 635 viewslondonlisa2001

employment law - annual leave owed on 22:46 - Nov 6 by jack_lord

Thank you.

I am the furthest west of engineers. I cover west east and north of my home. When I am off, the engineer who lives near Cardiff will then have to cover calls that are raised in that part of the territory and if he is moved west then the guy to his east will move across.

This will happen when I leave as it will take a while to recruit and train a replacement to be field ready. I was recruited from IBM as they had taken on former IBM contracts and knew more than the engineer training me. The world has changed a fair bit in fifteen years though.

Fifteen years and they can't be gracious to appreciate my service, and times I have covered calls when engineers are not qualified to work on certain kit and especially when I need the time to organise my personal life.


It sounds like you’ve made the right choice to leave given the way they’re treating you after so long.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 00:33 - Nov 7 with 619 viewsBarrySwan

Just out of interest why didn't you book your holidays get confirmation that they had been accepted and then hand your notice in?

This would also have ruled out your employer using the old 'we're very busy' business reason exemption clause mentioned earlier.
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employment law - annual leave owed on 00:46 - Nov 7 with 610 viewsjack_lord

employment law - annual leave owed on 00:33 - Nov 7 by BarrySwan

Just out of interest why didn't you book your holidays get confirmation that they had been accepted and then hand your notice in?

This would also have ruled out your employer using the old 'we're very busy' business reason exemption clause mentioned earlier.


Simple answer.
I handed my notice to accommodate my new starting date as I was still unsure of leaving due to my loyalty. I was almost sure of our moving date but there were administration errors that put the date in doubt. They then pretty muc happened to be confirmed on the same date.

Lord_Jack BA (Hons) MSc
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employment law - annual leave owed on 05:47 - Nov 7 with 572 viewssquarebear

[i meant to quote controversial Jack here:

Go sick, and you get the time paid to you too, win win]

Yep, I've not had a sick day in twenty years but this would be what I'd do in the OP's situation.

Besides, he did mention stress....

The other option would be to speak to whoever your leave approver is and say, in a fait accompli way, "I'm not going to be in on these days. How do you want to play it?".
[Post edited 7 Nov 5:53]
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employment law - annual leave owed on 11:08 - Nov 7 with 465 viewsangryjack

employment law - annual leave owed on 05:47 - Nov 7 by squarebear

[i meant to quote controversial Jack here:

Go sick, and you get the time paid to you too, win win]

Yep, I've not had a sick day in twenty years but this would be what I'd do in the OP's situation.

Besides, he did mention stress....

The other option would be to speak to whoever your leave approver is and say, in a fait accompli way, "I'm not going to be in on these days. How do you want to play it?".
[Post edited 7 Nov 5:53]


If it was me and it was stressing me out that much I would just take the time off anyway and wouldn't care about losing 6 days pay..phone in sick and if they hold it they hold it for the sake of 6 days pay
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