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Worst ever performance figures in NHS 18:11 - Nov 14 with 1531 viewsPegojack

I've just heard that feckin' genius Joris Bonson say on the BBC news that the NHS performance figures aren't caused by Tory underfunding, but by the 'enormous demand being placed on the system'.

There you go then, that's OK. If you feckin obnoxious poor people would just stop getting ill, everything will be alright.

FFS. If the polls are right, and he is swept to power after the election, all I can say is, you Tory voters deserve everything you get. Good luck.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 18:11]
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:20 - Nov 14 with 851 viewsNortbankboy

All this has happened on the Tory watch.
Cut backs for the last 10 yrs
All of the sudden they are going to invest millions in the nhs!
There must be an election due
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:22 - Nov 14 with 840 viewsbluey_the_blue

The system is strained by people going to hospital A&E for incredibly minor things that aren't accidents, aren't emergencies. Go to pharmacist? Nah, demand GP appointment, demand antibiotics for a cold.

We've plenty of students near where we live, plenty registered at GP surgery and make up the majority of missed appointments, preventing others from access.

The system was never designed to scale for the current demand it experiences. Throwing money isn't the answer.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:27 - Nov 14 with 835 viewsladyjack

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:27 - Nov 14 with 832 viewsPegojack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:22 - Nov 14 by bluey_the_blue

The system is strained by people going to hospital A&E for incredibly minor things that aren't accidents, aren't emergencies. Go to pharmacist? Nah, demand GP appointment, demand antibiotics for a cold.

We've plenty of students near where we live, plenty registered at GP surgery and make up the majority of missed appointments, preventing others from access.

The system was never designed to scale for the current demand it experiences. Throwing money isn't the answer.


I'm sick of listening to Tory apologists like you, you've got an excuse for everything. Place the blame squarely where it lies.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:40 - Nov 14 with 805 viewsbluey_the_blue

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:27 - Nov 14 by Pegojack

I'm sick of listening to Tory apologists like you, you've got an excuse for everything. Place the blame squarely where it lies.


Oh behave.

The system has required change for many a decade, it simply doesn't scale. Ironically, advances in medicine mean people live longer. That means there's a larger population, with a larger elderly demographic who then require more care due to aging related issues.

It's stupid to believe you can continually throw money at it and everything magically resolves itself.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:55 - Nov 14 with 779 viewssherpajacob

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:40 - Nov 14 by bluey_the_blue

Oh behave.

The system has required change for many a decade, it simply doesn't scale. Ironically, advances in medicine mean people live longer. That means there's a larger population, with a larger elderly demographic who then require more care due to aging related issues.

It's stupid to believe you can continually throw money at it and everything magically resolves itself.


So why hasn't the party in charge for the last 9 years made the changes required?

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:00 - Nov 14 with 762 viewsGroo

Just wish there was an opposition that people could vote for

Groo does what Groo does best

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:02 - Nov 14 with 761 viewslondonlisa2001

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:00 - Nov 14 by Groo

Just wish there was an opposition that people could vote for


Absolutely right.

An appalling Tory government and an appalling opposition.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:04 - Nov 14 with 740 viewsbluey_the_blue

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:55 - Nov 14 by sherpajacob

So why hasn't the party in charge for the last 9 years made the changes required?


Political resistance, funnily enough.

People simply don't want to have the conversations because the reality is uncomfortable to accept. Any discussion of reforms and the old, tired Labour mantra of "XXX hours to save NHS!" gets trotted out.

I also don't believe changes can be made within a decade that materially will improve things, for me it's a generational thing. It's not just structural changes needed but also cultural.

An aging population living longer means they have more complex medical needs. Those who worked contributed for the needs at the time they were working. They aren't working now, so the next generation(s) are thus paying.

Over time it's pretty bloody clear that, like pensions, either there's a massive shortfall or future generations are going to pay a hell of a lot more to support the demand on services at that time.

I think there are well meaning policies ( "free prescriptions" ) that turn out to be crap; I have hayfever that at times can be nasty. GP gave prescription for things that, in effect, I can handle using over the counter medications. I've told him to not prescribe it, I can afford to pay it. If people want to give out free prescriptions, then imo it needs to go to those who genuinely need it. Obvious there are caveats, but I don't believe OTC medicines should not be means tested, prescription wise.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:23 - Nov 14 with 707 viewslondonlisa2001

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 19:04 - Nov 14 by bluey_the_blue

Political resistance, funnily enough.

People simply don't want to have the conversations because the reality is uncomfortable to accept. Any discussion of reforms and the old, tired Labour mantra of "XXX hours to save NHS!" gets trotted out.

I also don't believe changes can be made within a decade that materially will improve things, for me it's a generational thing. It's not just structural changes needed but also cultural.

An aging population living longer means they have more complex medical needs. Those who worked contributed for the needs at the time they were working. They aren't working now, so the next generation(s) are thus paying.

Over time it's pretty bloody clear that, like pensions, either there's a massive shortfall or future generations are going to pay a hell of a lot more to support the demand on services at that time.

I think there are well meaning policies ( "free prescriptions" ) that turn out to be crap; I have hayfever that at times can be nasty. GP gave prescription for things that, in effect, I can handle using over the counter medications. I've told him to not prescribe it, I can afford to pay it. If people want to give out free prescriptions, then imo it needs to go to those who genuinely need it. Obvious there are caveats, but I don't believe OTC medicines should not be means tested, prescription wise.


Investment in the NHS has decreased in real terms over the last 10 years.

Plus the issue re waiting times etc today were in England. Where we don’t have free prescriptions.

One of the huge issues for the NHS is the cut in care services. And at home support due to cuts in amounts being given to local authorities.

There are huge amounts of inefficiency in the system, but some of it is just less money goes in now than used to go in.

Still, once drug costs are increased to US levels, everything now will look like a land of milk and honey.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:00 - Nov 14 with 647 viewslonglostjack

For the life of me I can’t understand why there haven’t been protests on the streets on a massive scale. Climate change, Stop the War. People’s vote, fair enough but surely the issue that will affect everyone directly or indirectly is the chronic underfunding of the NHS and social care budgets. Where are the protests? I don’t get it.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 20:11]

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:02 - Nov 14 with 646 viewsmajorraglan

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 18:22 - Nov 14 by bluey_the_blue

The system is strained by people going to hospital A&E for incredibly minor things that aren't accidents, aren't emergencies. Go to pharmacist? Nah, demand GP appointment, demand antibiotics for a cold.

We've plenty of students near where we live, plenty registered at GP surgery and make up the majority of missed appointments, preventing others from access.

The system was never designed to scale for the current demand it experiences. Throwing money isn't the answer.


The levels of investment in the NHS has shrunk in real terms over the last 10 years, that’s something that can’t be denied, there are also significant staffing shortfalls, they are a 100,000 down on where they need to be.

GP provision is an issue, in some places you can access GP services in other areas you cant which is why people are resorting to A and E. Pension changes have had a detrimental impact on the NHS as doctors are reducing their hours to avoid significant financial penalties, the Dept of Health and Treasury are in discussions about the issue.

People are living longer and it costs a lot more , almost 20% of the population are 65 and they cost twice as much as a 30 year old to treat, an 85 year old costs 6 times more.

There are inefficiencies in the NHS and there needs to be a mature conversation about things. The likes of Boris and us ilk can trot up to The Spire in Bristol or Harley Street and get sorted, the rest of us aren’t so fortunate.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:14 - Nov 14 with 618 viewsBrynmill_Jack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:02 - Nov 14 by majorraglan

The levels of investment in the NHS has shrunk in real terms over the last 10 years, that’s something that can’t be denied, there are also significant staffing shortfalls, they are a 100,000 down on where they need to be.

GP provision is an issue, in some places you can access GP services in other areas you cant which is why people are resorting to A and E. Pension changes have had a detrimental impact on the NHS as doctors are reducing their hours to avoid significant financial penalties, the Dept of Health and Treasury are in discussions about the issue.

People are living longer and it costs a lot more , almost 20% of the population are 65 and they cost twice as much as a 30 year old to treat, an 85 year old costs 6 times more.

There are inefficiencies in the NHS and there needs to be a mature conversation about things. The likes of Boris and us ilk can trot up to The Spire in Bristol or Harley Street and get sorted, the rest of us aren’t so fortunate.


I heard on the news today (BBC Radio this morning) that life expectancy has fallen due to high poverty levels. I can't find the report but that can't be regarded as good news. Even though this means a success for Bluey's Tories as waiting lists will inevitably come down.

Each time I go to Bedd - au........................

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:16 - Nov 14 with 611 viewsPozuelosSideys

The NHS is just a microcosm of society in general. Not just the UK either. Too many people using something which was simply not designed to cope with the numbers using it.

The NHS, pensions, elderly care are all in the same boat. The only solution is higher taxation which needs to be ringfenced and spent directly on items such as these. Think we are all agreed that multi national companies need to pay their way instead of hiding behind archaic tax rules. All well and good going after a handful of high earners and chasing Average Bob for his two bob note, but the corporates are making out like bandits while society suffers.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 20:17]

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:19 - Nov 14 with 599 viewsmonmouth

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:02 - Nov 14 by majorraglan

The levels of investment in the NHS has shrunk in real terms over the last 10 years, that’s something that can’t be denied, there are also significant staffing shortfalls, they are a 100,000 down on where they need to be.

GP provision is an issue, in some places you can access GP services in other areas you cant which is why people are resorting to A and E. Pension changes have had a detrimental impact on the NHS as doctors are reducing their hours to avoid significant financial penalties, the Dept of Health and Treasury are in discussions about the issue.

People are living longer and it costs a lot more , almost 20% of the population are 65 and they cost twice as much as a 30 year old to treat, an 85 year old costs 6 times more.

There are inefficiencies in the NHS and there needs to be a mature conversation about things. The likes of Boris and us ilk can trot up to The Spire in Bristol or Harley Street and get sorted, the rest of us aren’t so fortunate.


GPs are also giving up because they are sick of being paper pushers and sick of being sued by chancers and abused for not giving out drugs. 10 have left in the past two and a half years from my wife's practice, citing these reasons.

This didn't start under the tories (well it did if you go back far enough), but they've made things much worse with theur 'improvements' and, as has been said, cut the spend in real terms. Bluey has a point in some of his analysis, but there is no doubt about the tories true direction of travel.

Personally I think thatwe should simply abolish private health care. If the toffs had to use it, it would focus their minds, and it would stop queue jumping. We really would be 'all in it together'. Also no one should be allowed to sue, end of, unless there is provable misconduct such as a drunk surgeon. Either you want treatment or you don't. If you do, then you accept the risk, including human error.

Whatever, the current model is unsustainable, but no one is prepared to say so and actually try to take unpleasant decisions, so it is left to rot at the core whilst politicians simply lie and dissemble. There probably isn't enough money to save it in its current form (well, unless we stop funding stupid wars and nclear weapons of course, but that won't happen anytime soon), and of course racist immigration attitudes simply makes it worse.

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:20 - Nov 14 with 596 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:14 - Nov 14 by Brynmill_Jack

I heard on the news today (BBC Radio this morning) that life expectancy has fallen due to high poverty levels. I can't find the report but that can't be regarded as good news. Even though this means a success for Bluey's Tories as waiting lists will inevitably come down.


The opposition should be walking this election merely by offering an alternative.

Has there ever been a poorer generation of politicians in history?

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:25 - Nov 14 with 580 viewsmonmouth

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:20 - Nov 14 by Joe_bradshaw

The opposition should be walking this election merely by offering an alternative.

Has there ever been a poorer generation of politicians in history?


There will be, because all the half decent ones are packing in. We are well on the way to being a tin pot Zimbabwe.

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:35 - Nov 14 with 560 viewsLuther27

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:25 - Nov 14 by monmouth

There will be, because all the half decent ones are packing in. We are well on the way to being a tin pot Zimbabwe.


Most of the fvckers should still be doing time for robbing us regarding the expenses scandal. As a country we blew the opportunity to rid ourselves of these inept oxygen thieves.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:07 - Nov 14 with 522 viewslonglostjack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:16 - Nov 14 by PozuelosSideys

The NHS is just a microcosm of society in general. Not just the UK either. Too many people using something which was simply not designed to cope with the numbers using it.

The NHS, pensions, elderly care are all in the same boat. The only solution is higher taxation which needs to be ringfenced and spent directly on items such as these. Think we are all agreed that multi national companies need to pay their way instead of hiding behind archaic tax rules. All well and good going after a handful of high earners and chasing Average Bob for his two bob note, but the corporates are making out like bandits while society suffers.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 20:17]


Top post. People need to wake up and smell the Starbucks.

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:17 - Nov 14 with 509 viewsFlashberryjack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 20:19 - Nov 14 by monmouth

GPs are also giving up because they are sick of being paper pushers and sick of being sued by chancers and abused for not giving out drugs. 10 have left in the past two and a half years from my wife's practice, citing these reasons.

This didn't start under the tories (well it did if you go back far enough), but they've made things much worse with theur 'improvements' and, as has been said, cut the spend in real terms. Bluey has a point in some of his analysis, but there is no doubt about the tories true direction of travel.

Personally I think thatwe should simply abolish private health care. If the toffs had to use it, it would focus their minds, and it would stop queue jumping. We really would be 'all in it together'. Also no one should be allowed to sue, end of, unless there is provable misconduct such as a drunk surgeon. Either you want treatment or you don't. If you do, then you accept the risk, including human error.

Whatever, the current model is unsustainable, but no one is prepared to say so and actually try to take unpleasant decisions, so it is left to rot at the core whilst politicians simply lie and dissemble. There probably isn't enough money to save it in its current form (well, unless we stop funding stupid wars and nclear weapons of course, but that won't happen anytime soon), and of course racist immigration attitudes simply makes it worse.


There's obviously to many people sucking off the NHS tit, growing population and a system that's being used and abused by many.

A & E is absolutely rammed whilst my doctors surgery is mainly empty, the last time I went there (after waiting 9 days for an appointment) there was only 1 other person there, that can't be right.

A very good friend of mine is a Paramedic with the ambulance service, he spends most of his shifts in Morriston hospital A & E car park.

Undoubtedly the NHS needs more funding, funding in the right place, not to give the chief executive and underlings a pay rise.

Hello

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:18 - Nov 14 with 507 viewsladyjack

If people think an ageing population is a problem in a UK sense then look at all the old English immigrants in Wales, the English authorities need to pay for them.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:25 - Nov 14 with 485 viewsPozuelosSideys

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:18 - Nov 14 by ladyjack

If people think an ageing population is a problem in a UK sense then look at all the old English immigrants in Wales, the English authorities need to pay for them.


Think you might want to rethink that logic old bean. Especially when Wales and Scotland are effectively being subsidised by the English taxpayer.

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:40 - Nov 14 with 467 viewsladyjack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:25 - Nov 14 by PozuelosSideys

Think you might want to rethink that logic old bean. Especially when Wales and Scotland are effectively being subsidised by the English taxpayer.


I think you need to rethink it old bean they are getting our water and energy for Porthcawl.
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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:44 - Nov 14 with 459 viewsHighjack

Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:40 - Nov 14 by ladyjack

I think you need to rethink it old bean they are getting our water and energy for Porthcawl.


Porthcawl doesn’t need water, it’s on the coast.

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Worst ever performance figures in NHS on 21:59 - Nov 14 with 430 viewsDarran

To the OP. They are caused by both Mike.

Go and sit in Morriston A&E and take it all in.
There’s a generation of twáts coming through that go there if they’ve got a bad cold. If one of my era of friends had a cut for instance you look at it and think nah I don’t need to go to hospital just wrap it up and carry on.
We were down there recently with an ill Amy and had to wait to be seen whilst they saw to a girl that had taken four tablespoons of bleach for a laugh.

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