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PL Legacy 18:05 - Nov 17 with 4181 viewsjohnlangy

The Club's legacy from the PL years, apart from the kudos of being the ONLY Welsh Club to EVER stay in the PL for seven years, has been to end up with a PL quality training facility and a first class Academy.

The training facility has helped, and will help the Club for a long time to come, to attract players who otherwise may not have signed for us. It also helps the manager get the very best he can from the players at his disposal which is certain to help the Club prosper in the future.

Then there's the Academy. It was very difficult for players who were playing U23 standard to step up to the PL so, whenever there was a need for a player in a particular position the Club had to fork out a lot of money on transfer fees and contracts. In the Championship we are now seeing many players from the U23's being able to step up. And when they step up we see the real value of the Academy when some of them move on for large fees.

From the start, last time, the board said they were going to invest in the TF and Academy which eventually cost the Club in excess of £20 million.

So my question is, what will be the Club's legacy from our next stint in the PL ? If we were to get promoted this year our income will rise back to around £120 million compared with this seasons £50/55 million. So what do we do with that money ? Do we go back to buying expensive players to try to maintain PL status ? Or do we invest some of it ?

The only infrastructure left that we could improve on is Stadium capacity. There's always a big verbal punch up about this every time the subject is raised but if people disagree with doing this what would you suggest ? DO you want to lump it all on big players again ? Bony and Ayew types for example ? Or would you want the Club to be left with something tangible the next time we're relegated ?

Here's a suggestion. The plans as they were showed a 32,000 stadium (roughly). But it showed two stages, the first stage taking the capacity to about 27,000. There's no doubt that 20,900 was not enough in the PL. The only debate was about the full extension. Whether 32,000 was needed. Which is a reasonable question. But stage one would make sense to me and if the crowds settled at 23/24/25,000 then that would be the end of it. No need for stage 2. That would cost about £10 million.

So if we decided to spend £20 million again my suggestion is this. When the owners were looking to cut costs after relegation they thought for a while of dropping the Academy to Cat 2 or Cat 3 which, in my opinion, would have been a dreadful idea. So, what if the other £10 million was set aside to ensure that when we were relegated again that money would be used to ensure the Club could afford the ongoing cost of maintaining the Academy at Cat 1.
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PL Legacy on 18:07 - Nov 17 with 3596 viewsJBT95

Swansea City are the only Welsh club to survive top flight seasons since 1961 (7).
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PL Legacy on 18:13 - Nov 17 with 3573 viewsPozuelosSideys

PL Legacy on 18:07 - Nov 17 by JBT95

Swansea City are the only Welsh club to survive top flight seasons since 1961 (7).


In the grand scheme of things, that doesn't matter very much unless somebody bases success on the premise of being higher than Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham.

That's a pretty low benchmark imo

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PL Legacy on 18:47 - Nov 17 with 3531 viewsJBT95

PL Legacy on 18:13 - Nov 17 by PozuelosSideys

In the grand scheme of things, that doesn't matter very much unless somebody bases success on the premise of being higher than Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham.

That's a pretty low benchmark imo


It's 7 more seasons in the top flight than the self proclaimed biggest club in South Wales.
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PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 17 with 3467 viewsKilkennyjack

John - i almost always agree with you, but .....

The last hundred years tells us we are - at best - a championship level club.

So the obvious risk is having both a 27,000 seater stadium and a Cat1 academy that we then cannot afford to run. If we return to our current/natural level.

That said, Roberts and Rodon do give us all hope for a bright and sustainable future ...

Our club needs to run by proven professionals, i’d rather spend some of any new money on that.

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PL Legacy on 01:48 - Nov 18 with 3282 viewsTimTtam

If we make it back, I'd spend the money on firstly the academy, and then the stadium expansion. We don't need 32,000, largely because we won't fill it very often, but 27,000 sounds about right. If we try make it bigger than CCS then it'll just become a pissing contest between the 2 clubs trying to make the bigger stadium.

I'd be happy to see us become a club that resides in the Championship, but is more than capable of getting promoted . The worry is that we spend a few more seasons here and don't get promoted, and then we're on a par financially with other clubs, with an academy ready to be downgraded, and a 21k stadium. That's when the risk of relegation comes in.

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PL Legacy on 09:45 - Nov 18 with 3114 viewsjohnlangy

PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 17 by Kilkennyjack

John - i almost always agree with you, but .....

The last hundred years tells us we are - at best - a championship level club.

So the obvious risk is having both a 27,000 seater stadium and a Cat1 academy that we then cannot afford to run. If we return to our current/natural level.

That said, Roberts and Rodon do give us all hope for a bright and sustainable future ...

Our club needs to run by proven professionals, i’d rather spend some of any new money on that.


I understand what you're saying Kilkenny, but .......

The question is, what do we do with the extra money if we DO get promoted. If we are promoted this season our income next season will be doubled. So what do we spend the money on ?

When we were relegated and found we couldn't get rid of Ayew and Bony everyone slagged off HJ for buying them. They became a millstone around the Club's neck and they had to look to sell everything they could to balance the books. Logically, if we didn't have Ayew and Bony on the books we wouldn't have had to sell Dan James or Ollie (we may have done anyway but it would have been our choice, not forced on us and the Club would or could have been able to reinvest the money).

So, does the money go on buying more Ayews and Bonys for big money and on big contracts only to end up back in the current situation ? Or do we spend some of it to build the Club up. There's no doubt at all that with the stadium the Club was immediately bigger and stronger. Then when Fairwood and Landore were built that also made the Swans into a 'bigger' Club.

From what I understand the Academy costs around £2 million a year to run. Putting money aside to ensure we can afford to carry on running it after relegation makes sense to me even though you could argue that it's paying it's way so doesn't need a subsidy. The fact we've currently got Joe Rodon, Connor Roberts and George Byers in the team means we haven't had to buy players in. How much would they have cost ? And we've just sold Dan James and Ollie for around £30 million !

So back to the question. Where could we spend the money to build the Club bigger and stronger for the future ?
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PL Legacy on 10:19 - Nov 18 with 3073 viewsDewi1jack

PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 17 by Kilkennyjack

John - i almost always agree with you, but .....

The last hundred years tells us we are - at best - a championship level club.

So the obvious risk is having both a 27,000 seater stadium and a Cat1 academy that we then cannot afford to run. If we return to our current/natural level.

That said, Roberts and Rodon do give us all hope for a bright and sustainable future ...

Our club needs to run by proven professionals, i’d rather spend some of any new money on that.


I'd give my support to keeping Cat 1 status- we'd attract more "kids" with a better potential.
Yes, Chelsea, City etc may sign the cream(Chelsea just sign everyone!) but, those who genuinely want to be playing in a first team to improve will then aim for a club with the best acadamies, where they have a chance of breaking through.

Stadium.
Again I'd back an increase to 27,000.
Certainly don't need more than that. Just look at our Eastern cousins empty ground every week.
More people in for gigs in the summer
More tourists in the Prem paying £45 a seat to watch their heroes...
Losing again hopefully, cos that's just hilarious!!!

But at the same time, I do think we'd need to get decently good off field staff in, without breaking structure, to fulfil the maximum potential of FREE Worldwide Premier League advertising.
Not the jokers who brought in the Swans lottery as a partner.
Who brought in around 14 partners less than Norwich's sales team, if my memory serves.
Who got jobs purely on their relationship with the ex board

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PL Legacy on 10:53 - Nov 18 with 3050 viewswestwalesed

Great post. Due to a number of reasons I don’t ever see us being a permanent fixture in the PL, so if we ever get back there I am fully on board with the idea of setting aside a rainy day fund for our training facilities and academy. The club should make a conscious effort to ringfence some funds each year to preserve that stays. It’s golddust for us.

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PL Legacy on 11:37 - Nov 18 with 3011 viewswhiterock

Why can't we be a semi-permanent feature in the PL, baring the top 6/7, we are as good as any of them, what we got to accept is that no club of our size has a right to stay in the PL. If we drop out, take it but try and bounce back within a year or two, pretty much what we are doing ATM.
The legacy for me is that we are a bigger club now than in 2011 with season tickets at about 13k, in 2011, we had 8k STs on May 31st raising to roughly 16k on June 1st when PL was secured.
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PL Legacy on 12:08 - Nov 18 with 2991 viewsglanmORJa_k

A top scouting system is the only way for the club to not only maintain a Championship place but also have any chance of getting back to the PL. Hopefully the days of panic buying players like Bony and Ayew are behind us and any future signings will be more in tune to some of the signings Brentford and Norwich have made in recent seasons.

Andy Scott's interview yesterday was an interesting read and it remains to be seen who we will be looking to bring in during the next transfer window.

Its only this season that we have seen how many 'floating' season tickets holders there actually were during the PL years, as there are no doubts that last season's attendances were inflated with the 'floaters' renewing season tickets before the cut off dates during the last season in the PL, in comparison with the gates we are getting this season. Unless our form during the second half of the season keeps the club in the promotion hunt, attendances of 15/16,000 will be the norm for the remainder of the season.

Cat 1 status needs to be continued to not only bring through the next generation of promising youngsters but also to increase the education/experience of the academy's coaches while I would imagine any stadium expansion would be limited to either increasing the South Stand and canvassing an increase in parents/kids involvement, or increasing the East Stand by half a dozen rows to raise the capacity to no more than 27,000.
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PL Legacy on 16:46 - Nov 18 with 2852 viewsGowerjack

It's amazing how a £15 million Acadamy and training ground cost the football club £20 million...

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PL Legacy on 17:29 - Nov 18 with 2824 viewsDr_Winston

PL Legacy on 11:37 - Nov 18 by whiterock

Why can't we be a semi-permanent feature in the PL, baring the top 6/7, we are as good as any of them, what we got to accept is that no club of our size has a right to stay in the PL. If we drop out, take it but try and bounce back within a year or two, pretty much what we are doing ATM.
The legacy for me is that we are a bigger club now than in 2011 with season tickets at about 13k, in 2011, we had 8k STs on May 31st raising to roughly 16k on June 1st when PL was secured.


This.

We didn't drop out of the PL because a club of our size can only expect to remain there for so long. We dropped out of the PL because the previous owners got greedy and made stupid decisions, and the new owners let one or two of them keep doing it.

Had we kept doing what worked so successfully between 2003 & 2014 there's no reason why we couldn't still be up there today.

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PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 18 with 2764 viewsNortbankboy

PL Legacy on 17:29 - Nov 18 by Dr_Winston

This.

We didn't drop out of the PL because a club of our size can only expect to remain there for so long. We dropped out of the PL because the previous owners got greedy and made stupid decisions, and the new owners let one or two of them keep doing it.

Had we kept doing what worked so successfully between 2003 & 2014 there's no reason why we couldn't still be up there today.


We dropped out the premier because of a couple of !managers not picking the right team.
The players were there to keep us up
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PL Legacy on 19:38 - Nov 18 with 2763 viewsDarran

PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 18 by Nortbankboy

We dropped out the premier because of a couple of !managers not picking the right team.
The players were there to keep us up


Who picked the managers then?

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PL Legacy on 20:21 - Nov 18 with 2715 viewsGaryjack

PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 18 by Nortbankboy

We dropped out the premier because of a couple of !managers not picking the right team.
The players were there to keep us up


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PL Legacy on 20:22 - Nov 18 with 2708 viewsGlyn1

There are at least six clubs who will never be in danger of being relegated. So that leaves 14 clubs in a division with 3 relegated every season, so an average stay in the PL of 5 years would be decent and we punched above our weight and exceeded that.

By all means criticise HJ etc and I'll gladly join you but we weren't going to stay there forever. Personally I think that Southampton will drop down this season as they've been circling the plughole for years.
[Post edited 18 Nov 2019 20:24]

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PL Legacy on 11:47 - Nov 19 with 2540 viewswaynekerr55

PL Legacy on 19:37 - Nov 18 by Nortbankboy

We dropped out the premier because of a couple of !managers not picking the right team.
The players were there to keep us up



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PL Legacy on 18:59 - Nov 19 with 2398 viewsNortbankboy

PL Legacy on 19:38 - Nov 18 by Darran

Who picked the managers then?


Huw Jenkins and the old board?
And what fantastic job they did.
The only bad one was pau l Clement but we thought it was the right choice at the time.But how wrong we were.
I think brad Bobby was the Americans choice.
But I think they are learning as they go along
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PL Legacy on 12:42 - Nov 20 with 2281 viewsBadlands

PL Legacy on 18:59 - Nov 19 by Nortbankboy

Huw Jenkins and the old board?
And what fantastic job they did.
The only bad one was pau l Clement but we thought it was the right choice at the time.But how wrong we were.
I think brad Bobby was the Americans choice.
But I think they are learning as they go along


Bradley was Jenkin's choice. Maybe there was an element of sucking up to the Americans or maybe on paper Bradley wasn't a completely ludicrous choice - some of us realised the mistake after two games but were shouted down.
According to Pearlman and Birch the Americans are and were consulted on all matters but have / had never taken or forced decisions other than requiring Jenkins to resign.
Pearlman recommended Birch.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2019 12:44]

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PL Legacy on 18:46 - Nov 20 with 2204 viewsNortbankboy

PL Legacy on 12:42 - Nov 20 by Badlands

Bradley was Jenkin's choice. Maybe there was an element of sucking up to the Americans or maybe on paper Bradley wasn't a completely ludicrous choice - some of us realised the mistake after two games but were shouted down.
According to Pearlman and Birch the Americans are and were consulted on all matters but have / had never taken or forced decisions other than requiring Jenkins to resign.
Pearlman recommended Birch.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2019 12:44]


Well birch has inherited a club in a better position than
How Jenkins and the old board did.
Let's hope he can be as successful
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PL Legacy on 20:56 - Nov 20 with 2134 viewswaynekerr55

PL Legacy on 18:46 - Nov 20 by Nortbankboy

Well birch has inherited a club in a better position than
How Jenkins and the old board did.
Let's hope he can be as successful


He also inherited one with a massive financial black hole. Jenkins was great up until he believed his own hype circa 2014.

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PL Legacy on 23:02 - Nov 20 with 2087 viewsLuther27

PL Legacy on 20:56 - Nov 20 by waynekerr55

He also inherited one with a massive financial black hole. Jenkins was great up until he believed his own hype circa 2014.


No comparison. Birch came into the club when the majority of the high earners had been ditched. The wage bill. Had been slashed...the shit decisions to cut staff had been made...the new management team brought in and the U23s were introduced to the first team.

Yes, relegation was a kick in the balls, but Swansea were not one game from oblivion and that needs to be remembered when posters think being in this division is the end of the fvcking world.
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PL Legacy on 23:05 - Nov 20 with 2082 viewsLuther27

PL Legacy on 19:38 - Nov 18 by Darran

Who picked the managers then?


Bob Bradley? Really?
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PL Legacy on 23:07 - Nov 20 with 2075 viewsDr_Winston

PL Legacy on 23:02 - Nov 20 by Luther27

No comparison. Birch came into the club when the majority of the high earners had been ditched. The wage bill. Had been slashed...the shit decisions to cut staff had been made...the new management team brought in and the U23s were introduced to the first team.

Yes, relegation was a kick in the balls, but Swansea were not one game from oblivion and that needs to be remembered when posters think being in this division is the end of the fvcking world.


There were still major problems at the club when Birch took over. Let's be clear about that.

As for the "one game from oblivion", the Hull match took place more than a year after Petty was ousted. We were in that mess largely because a respected club captain was promoted to a position that he was found utterly wanting in. Sounds vaguely familiar that.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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PL Legacy on 23:11 - Nov 20 with 2060 viewsTNT

PL Legacy on 23:07 - Nov 20 by Dr_Winston

There were still major problems at the club when Birch took over. Let's be clear about that.

As for the "one game from oblivion", the Hull match took place more than a year after Petty was ousted. We were in that mess largely because a respected club captain was promoted to a position that he was found utterly wanting in. Sounds vaguely familiar that.


Is that Nick Cusack? Bit harsh, if so. He was doing his best to save us to be fair.

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