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I haven't posted here for a while, so sorry if this annoys you, but i was debating with some of you about this previously, but I can't find the thread to repost in.
Here is a 5 hour film using clips of official hearings and a conference in Canada, 10 years after the event. Looks at NIST's and the 9/11 Commission's reports and asks questions about their validity. Not really up for arguing and abuse today, but thought you guys might like a look at this, as it really unpicks the official narrative and also some of the things people were arguing with me about ie. the molten steel, the eye witnesses who heard explosions (over 150 of them), the pancake effect on the floors, Thermite, blah blah blah.
Don't expect any breathtaking visuals and excitement, like some other documentaries. This is videos of the official hearings, but extremely interesting.
Such a shame people are unable to debate without resorting to vile language and abuse of others. Reflects modern society, I suppose.
Apologies, but some people drive you to a response. I don't go round abusing people on here, but I admit I can't help but react sometimes. There are some sad, contemptible people on here with nothing nice or constructive ever to say. But as you say, reflects modern society.
Speaking as someone that has actually put up steel beam structures may I bring to your attention that the work required to prep every girder for take down would have been needed far beyond that elevator area. And involving work so intensive and top to bottom floor disruptive all buildings would have been absolutely impossible to work in for many months.
Look at WWC7, lots of girders and connectors/coupling points need to be severed! Look at 0:48s onwards.
And do you seriously believe the CIA embarked on a top secret programme to train hundreds of its own operatives to become elevator engineers, construction contractors and demolition contractors? Not only that? Use the same ploy with the aviation industry e.g. air traffic control operatives etc?
Do you not think that if outside private contractors were used a lot of them would have point-blank refused to kill thousands of innocent fellow citizens? And not only that, conscience would have meant many speaking out about an atrocity like that?
Just watched that whole video. 1) How come if the fires were on the lower floors, did the top collapse first like it did in that film? Steel girders crumbling like that from some small office fires? 2) If you watch the videos of the actual collapse, it looked nothing like that. In the computer reconstruction, the right of the building fell afterwards. They obviously couldn't find a way for the simulation to make the building actually fall as it did, so thought fuk it, that'll be good enough
I chuckled at one of the comments on that video: "Why do demolition company need explosives when all they have to do is set a fire and damage a few steel beams! Then wait for a few hours!"
Just watched that whole video. 1) How come if the fires were on the lower floors, did the top collapse first like it did in that film? Steel girders crumbling like that from some small office fires? 2) If you watch the videos of the actual collapse, it looked nothing like that. In the computer reconstruction, the right of the building fell afterwards. They obviously couldn't find a way for the simulation to make the building actually fall as it did, so thought fuk it, that'll be good enough
I chuckled at one of the comments on that video: "Why do demolition company need explosives when all they have to do is set a fire and damage a few steel beams! Then wait for a few hours!"
From what I remember.The planes hit about 2/3 of the way up the towers or thereabouts maybe higher, the structural integrity was immediately compromised, add to that the tons of AV gas on board, which ignited on impact. No wonder they collapsed, with the weight of the building, the whole thing went down like a pack of cards.
So you still think a plane hit the pentagon as well? What about the missing 2.3 trillion missing bucks then? What about the plane that crashed into the field and disintegrated, along with every passenger and was nowhere to be seen? Do you honestly trust the NIST and 9/11 Commission reports?
As for WTC7, I'm not sure why it fell. I'm no expert, hence why I listen to the professors, engineers and architects in these films to try and work out what actually happened, do as much research as I can and then put it out for debate. Unfortunately the debate is lost to mockery and abuse on this forum.
I'm not trying to be clever here, or saying that I know more than others. Just saying that I don't believe the official story at all, and these films help me realise a lot that other people are closed to, or don't want to believe anything other than what they believe.
I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything, but wondered what people thought of those new videos I saw. Simple.
Instead, I doubt anyone even bothered looking at the films and just thought it would be fine to send abuse instead. I actually thought my OP was quite reasonable. I said I didn't want arguments. I haven't abused people who believe the Bush family and the official narrative, even if I do find it crazy that people still believe it all.
People reckon "conspiricy theorists" are loonies...well the so called debunkers are much worse. No-one knows what's happened, but we do know that people are lying about it. Why is it saner to believe the US Government's pathetic story, than to doubt it? I am honestly baffled how people can think it's the people who want truth who are the crazy ones and the people who think the US Governement aren't lying are the sane.
*not all that was in response to you Doc, I just didn't have time to quote every other post.
“I'm not trying to be clever here, or saying that I know more than others.”
Yes you are. That’s exactly what you’re saying.
At the heart of all these conspiracy theories are people that think only they know the truth and everyone else is ‘brainwashed’ or ‘unthinking’.
The theories are almost always accompanied with cries of ‘open your eyes’. Or ‘sheep’. Or similar.
As I’m pretty certain I’ve said before in answer to the 9/11 nonsense.
Why?
Why would the US government or whoever else is supposed to be behind this do it?
It’s absolute rubbish. And no one can ever answer that question. Ever. Because it’s rubbish.
Just watched that whole video. 1) How come if the fires were on the lower floors, did the top collapse first like it did in that film? Steel girders crumbling like that from some small office fires? 2) If you watch the videos of the actual collapse, it looked nothing like that. In the computer reconstruction, the right of the building fell afterwards. They obviously couldn't find a way for the simulation to make the building actually fall as it did, so thought fuk it, that'll be good enough
I chuckled at one of the comments on that video: "Why do demolition company need explosives when all they have to do is set a fire and damage a few steel beams! Then wait for a few hours!"
Mentioned previously the inability of a building to hold its own colossal weight because of significant weakening of the steel, steel coupling/holding areas further compromised by hole expansion caused by heat of a fire left unattended. No intervention from fire hose.
End result a downward cascading collapse and cold shearing of bolts that hold a structure together. Catastrophic failure of structural weight bearing capacity, not too dissimilar (albeit with no raging fire heat) to that Dutch football stadium roof collapse that was caused by lack of uniform strength and inadequate weight bearing support in significant and vital areas.
You see cold shearing of heavy lifting equipment holding pins that are far thicker than an average bolt are not unique. 3 inch, 4 inch pins can snap clean/cold shear through like a twig. Anyone that has been involved in heavy lifting gear/plant repair will tell you thus.
“I'm not trying to be clever here, or saying that I know more than others.”
Yes you are. That’s exactly what you’re saying.
At the heart of all these conspiracy theories are people that think only they know the truth and everyone else is ‘brainwashed’ or ‘unthinking’.
The theories are almost always accompanied with cries of ‘open your eyes’. Or ‘sheep’. Or similar.
As I’m pretty certain I’ve said before in answer to the 9/11 nonsense.
Why?
Why would the US government or whoever else is supposed to be behind this do it?
It’s absolute rubbish. And no one can ever answer that question. Ever. Because it’s rubbish.
Agreed, we all know we are being lied to, brainwashed etc. Throughout history and into the future, it will always be the case. But to inflict this on their own people, it does not make sense at any level.
Agreed, we all know we are being lied to, brainwashed etc. Throughout history and into the future, it will always be the case. But to inflict this on their own people, it does not make sense at any level.
It’s not even the ‘inflict it on their own people’ bit. Even if you could get your head around that, you’d still be left with the question why would any government choose to target the Trade Centre in such an elaborate way.
If they wanted to create an atmosphere that would allow them to go to war with ‘terror’, or Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, or anywhere else, they just had to stand in Times Square, Washington, LA, etc etc and let off a few bombs.
It’s not even the ‘inflict it on their own people’ bit. Even if you could get your head around that, you’d still be left with the question why would any government choose to target the Trade Centre in such an elaborate way.
If they wanted to create an atmosphere that would allow them to go to war with ‘terror’, or Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, or anywhere else, they just had to stand in Times Square, Washington, LA, etc etc and let off a few bombs.
It’s not even the ‘inflict it on their own people’ bit. Even if you could get your head around that, you’d still be left with the question why would any government choose to target the Trade Centre in such an elaborate way.
If they wanted to create an atmosphere that would allow them to go to war with ‘terror’, or Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, or anywhere else, they just had to stand in Times Square, Washington, LA, etc etc and let off a few bombs.
Job done. Far less hassle. Same effect.
It’s all just nonsense.
The two things that I wonder about 9/11 is how four planes can be hijacked and go off grid with no response from the Air Force in 21st century America where everything is monitored by the second, and how one of the perpetrators passports could survive that inferno and flutter down fortuitously into the hands of a police officer virtually intact.
It just seems it was a bit too easy for them to carry out such an atrocity.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The two things that I wonder about 9/11 is how four planes can be hijacked and go off grid with no response from the Air Force in 21st century America where everything is monitored by the second, and how one of the perpetrators passports could survive that inferno and flutter down fortuitously into the hands of a police officer virtually intact.
It just seems it was a bit too easy for them to carry out such an atrocity.
A few weeks ago, we had a huge explosion sound in the middle of the night. Everything shook.
When we got up to see what it was, could see everyone’s lights on, obviously doing the same.
After half an hour or so looked online to see if anything had been reported, and saw half of London and the south east had done the same.
After a while found out it was a sonic boom from 2 fighter planes that had been scrambled to intercept a passenger plane flying from Tel Aviv to America somewhere.
They’d lost radio over Germany and were intercepted over London. That’s today. When the events of 9/11 are well known and everyone is massively careful.
When it happened, it was such a shock to everyone that a lack of a quick enough response wasn’t that surprising.
The passport thing I agree - very odd. And probably planted as they wanted everyone to know who’d done it.
The two things that I wonder about 9/11 is how four planes can be hijacked and go off grid with no response from the Air Force in 21st century America where everything is monitored by the second, and how one of the perpetrators passports could survive that inferno and flutter down fortuitously into the hands of a police officer virtually intact.
It just seems it was a bit too easy for them to carry out such an atrocity.
Confusion and poor communication, was a factor,, in getting fighters to escort the highjacked planes,.
It’s not even the ‘inflict it on their own people’ bit. Even if you could get your head around that, you’d still be left with the question why would any government choose to target the Trade Centre in such an elaborate way.
If they wanted to create an atmosphere that would allow them to go to war with ‘terror’, or Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, or anywhere else, they just had to stand in Times Square, Washington, LA, etc etc and let off a few bombs.
Job done. Far less hassle. Same effect.
It’s all just nonsense.
Or just make up claims of weapons of mass destruction.
Just watched that whole video. 1) How come if the fires were on the lower floors, did the top collapse first like it did in that film? Steel girders crumbling like that from some small office fires? 2) If you watch the videos of the actual collapse, it looked nothing like that. In the computer reconstruction, the right of the building fell afterwards. They obviously couldn't find a way for the simulation to make the building actually fall as it did, so thought fuk it, that'll be good enough
I chuckled at one of the comments on that video: "Why do demolition company need explosives when all they have to do is set a fire and damage a few steel beams! Then wait for a few hours!"
Here you go, dickbrain. Warning: this link contains science, physics, engineering and stuff...
“I'm not trying to be clever here, or saying that I know more than others.”
Yes you are. That’s exactly what you’re saying.
At the heart of all these conspiracy theories are people that think only they know the truth and everyone else is ‘brainwashed’ or ‘unthinking’.
The theories are almost always accompanied with cries of ‘open your eyes’. Or ‘sheep’. Or similar.
As I’m pretty certain I’ve said before in answer to the 9/11 nonsense.
Why?
Why would the US government or whoever else is supposed to be behind this do it?
It’s absolute rubbish. And no one can ever answer that question. Ever. Because it’s rubbish.
No Lisa, I'm saying what I believe, not what I know. I have posted these videos so that others can see why I believe these things and maybe some people will understand why so many people believe in a conspiracy in this instance. I also want to people to show me some stuff to help me believe otherwise.
Yes it's true I am quite shocked that people believe the official narrative, but I haven't called people sheep or brainwashed. I haven't thrown any abuse out at all.
It's a post simply for debate. I mean, what is better for debate than something that people don't agree on?
Why would they do it? To enable the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. To make loads of money for his family and his mates (they made billions from arms, construction and defence contracts). Among many other things.
They also probably knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened, yet still let it happen to enable war. Although this will also be labelled as conspiracy theory.
No Lisa, I'm saying what I believe, not what I know. I have posted these videos so that others can see why I believe these things and maybe some people will understand why so many people believe in a conspiracy in this instance. I also want to people to show me some stuff to help me believe otherwise.
Yes it's true I am quite shocked that people believe the official narrative, but I haven't called people sheep or brainwashed. I haven't thrown any abuse out at all.
It's a post simply for debate. I mean, what is better for debate than something that people don't agree on?
Why would they do it? To enable the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. To make loads of money for his family and his mates (they made billions from arms, construction and defence contracts). Among many other things.
They also probably knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened, yet still let it happen to enable war. Although this will also be labelled as conspiracy theory.
You’re missing the point of the question ‘why’.
They could have done all that with a bomb in Times Square. Or a chemical attack on an subway.
The two things that I wonder about 9/11 is how four planes can be hijacked and go off grid with no response from the Air Force in 21st century America where everything is monitored by the second, and how one of the perpetrators passports could survive that inferno and flutter down fortuitously into the hands of a police officer virtually intact.
It just seems it was a bit too easy for them to carry out such an atrocity.
Exactly, I'm in the same boat. And that's just a couple of incidents at the tip of the iceberg mate...
If you watch the documentaries about it, there was official NORAD training exercises going on on 9/11 in which real planes were mock-hijacked and crashed into buildings. Actually at the same time of the attacks. This caused the operatives to think that the real attacks were just part of their exercise. I think this was shown in the documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11 (but could have been a different one, as I've watched so many haha). Have you seen it? Some other wargames had also previously been used where the WTC was actually the target of ficticious planes hitting it! Yet the government said many times that they could never have envisaged such an attack. Here's a bit about the exercises if you interested mate. Very interesting reading https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-military-drills-of-september-11th-why-a-new-in
The passport survived, yet the black box didn't. Or the rest of the plane and passengers which were completely vapourised. Oh, and the plane that hit the Pentagon and vaporised. Oh, and the one which crashed into a field and disappeared. It's mental.
I'm not calling people stupid for not questioning these things. I just want to know what the fuk is going on. I'm not able to just accept what we are expected to believe.
They could have done all that with a bomb in Times Square. Or a chemical attack on an subway.
It’s nonsense.
I can't remember off hand the many reasons that WTC and Pentagon were perfect targets without doing some digging again, but I think you're missing my point too. WHY...are the US government lying about the events if everything was above board and it was a terrorist attack which they were unaware about?
Have you watched any documentaries about 9/11 Lisa? The "conspiracy" ones I mean? Do you believe the US Government and the Bush family have told the truth about it all?
They could have done all that with a bomb in Times Square. Or a chemical attack on an subway.
It’s nonsense.
It wouldn’t have quite the same effect. This was broadcast live around the world for billions to watch live and in real time. I doubt anyone would notice if there was a chemical attack on a subway, their sandwiches taste like shite already.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Watergate didn't stay a secret though. The Kennedy assassination, you don't need hundreds of people to arrange that. You only need a few top people in the government and security forces. Actually besides the shooter (or 2) it's quite possible only one other person was involved. To bring down the twin towers though, it's not as simple as hiring one (or even 2) people to pull a trigger.
The Manhattan Project was a massive conspiracy. 100,000 people. That stayed secret. 9/11 would have taken way less people than that.
The Manhattan Project was a massive conspiracy. 100,000 people. That stayed secret. 9/11 would have taken way less people than that.
It didn't stay a secret though ...
"These detailed accounts have been made public on the website of the Department of Energy, which has posted the 36-volume, official history of the Manhattan Project, which had been commissioned by General Leslie Groves in late 1944. Among the most intriguing set of documents, released last month, is the volume about intelligence and security, which reveals:"
"Since September 1943, investigations were conducted of more than 1,500 'loose talk' or leakage of information cases and corrective action was taken in more than 1,200 violations of procedures for handling classified material…. Complete security of information could be achieved only by following all leaks to their source."
"These detailed accounts have been made public on the website of the Department of Energy, which has posted the 36-volume, official history of the Manhattan Project, which had been commissioned by General Leslie Groves in late 1944. Among the most intriguing set of documents, released last month, is the volume about intelligence and security, which reveals:"
"Since September 1943, investigations were conducted of more than 1,500 'loose talk' or leakage of information cases and corrective action was taken in more than 1,200 violations of procedures for handling classified material…. Complete security of information could be achieved only by following all leaks to their source."
AWKWARD!...
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
The Manhattan Project was a massive conspiracy. 100,000 people. That stayed secret. 9/11 would have taken way less people than that.
The Manhattan Project took place 70 years before Twitter or Facebook, and that got leaked like f*ck anyway.
Seriously. Take a step back away from the "Governments are out to get us!" loopiness and look at things logically for a few minutes. You'll be a lot happier and far fewer people will think that you're an idiot.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
Exactly, I'm in the same boat. And that's just a couple of incidents at the tip of the iceberg mate...
If you watch the documentaries about it, there was official NORAD training exercises going on on 9/11 in which real planes were mock-hijacked and crashed into buildings. Actually at the same time of the attacks. This caused the operatives to think that the real attacks were just part of their exercise. I think this was shown in the documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11 (but could have been a different one, as I've watched so many haha). Have you seen it? Some other wargames had also previously been used where the WTC was actually the target of ficticious planes hitting it! Yet the government said many times that they could never have envisaged such an attack. Here's a bit about the exercises if you interested mate. Very interesting reading https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-military-drills-of-september-11th-why-a-new-in
The passport survived, yet the black box didn't. Or the rest of the plane and passengers which were completely vapourised. Oh, and the plane that hit the Pentagon and vaporised. Oh, and the one which crashed into a field and disappeared. It's mental.
I'm not calling people stupid for not questioning these things. I just want to know what the fuk is going on. I'm not able to just accept what we are expected to believe.
I hate to break this to you but:
- the drills planned for 9/11 did not include the scenario of planes flying into buildings. Yes, they did run that exercise at some point before 9/11 although details re limited but it wasn’t the one they were running that day.
- the drills hadn’t even started when the planes were hijacked.
- the plane that hit the pentagon didn’t vaporise. Photos taken after impact show many, many identifiable plane parts outside the building.
- nor did United 93. They even recovered the black boxes and they released a transcript of the voice recorder!
- the drills planned for 9/11 did not include the scenario of planes flying into buildings. Yes, they did run that exercise at some point before 9/11 although details re limited but it wasn’t the one they were running that day.
- the drills hadn’t even started when the planes were hijacked.
- the plane that hit the pentagon didn’t vaporise. Photos taken after impact show many, many identifiable plane parts outside the building.
- nor did United 93. They even recovered the black boxes and they released a transcript of the voice recorder!
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