| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER 09:54 - Feb 25 with 4316 views | johnlangy |
This is a letter I sent to the EP on Sunday.
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Welsh votes count for almost nothing. It doesn’t matter how we vote, the Westminster government will be decided by voters in England. With just 40 MP’s Wales is represented in Westminster by just 6% of MP’s. If the boundary commission proposals are implemented and the 40 is reduced to 29 we’ll have just 4.5%.
In Assembly elections voters in Wales have TOTAL control over who runs the Welsh parliament. I’m no fan of Labour but the fact is that it was voters in Wales who elected them. And if we think they are doing a bad job we have the ability to vote them out. It’s our choice.
So I find it incredibly strange that some people want to abolish the Assembly and pass all their powers back to Westminster. To what end ? When Labour are in power in Westminster then, in theory, Wales IS represented. But that’s only because this coincides with what voters in England want. They decide who governs by having 533 MP’s to vote in. But even then, if England decides to vote Labour into government, the 40/29 Welsh Labour MP’s would still be just a small fraction of the 330 or so Labour MP’s in parliament. Their voice will still be minute.
Over the last 100 years there have been 28 General Elections. In that time Wales has NEVER voted for a Tory government but has had to endure being governed by the Torys after 20 of those elections.
So I’ll ask the question again. If Wales almost never gets the government it wants at Westminster what on earth is the logic in saying we should scrap the Welsh government and give what little control we have back to Westminster ?
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 17:15 - Feb 26 with 805 views | Kilkennyjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:31 - Feb 26 by SkipTheJack |
The biggest tragedy of the independence debate is how the majority of people in Wales have been convinced that we are not capable or worthy of governing ourselves. It's the ultimate form of servitude, that has been perfected by the English over the last 1600 years.
Even when the Tories came to power in 2010 and cancelled both rail electrification to Swansea and the tidal lagoon it still wasn't enough for people to get angry and open their eyes to the contempt Westminster regards us with. We instead take the scraps they feed us and tug our forelocks in gratitude. When the British Prime Minister (Tony Blair) refers to us as the "bloody Welsh" we still don't see this as the huge problem that it is.
In Wales there are a minority who are strongly pro-independence, and a minority who are strongly pro-union, but the majority of Welsh people don't feel strongly either way - they reluctantly support our position in the union because they don't believe we could ever manage on our own. This position is so depressing! Holding a political view because you believe in something in fine, but holding that view because you don't believe in anything is the ultimate abandonment of any hope for Wales's future.
The truth is there are plenty of smaller and more successful counties in the world than Wales, most of which don't have our resources or infrastructure. All we need is some ambition and self belief, along with a fiery certainty that our great country deserves much better. |
God bless you Skip. Respect.
ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 17:35 - Feb 26 with 796 views | Catullus |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:31 - Feb 26 by SkipTheJack |
The biggest tragedy of the independence debate is how the majority of people in Wales have been convinced that we are not capable or worthy of governing ourselves. It's the ultimate form of servitude, that has been perfected by the English over the last 1600 years.
Even when the Tories came to power in 2010 and cancelled both rail electrification to Swansea and the tidal lagoon it still wasn't enough for people to get angry and open their eyes to the contempt Westminster regards us with. We instead take the scraps they feed us and tug our forelocks in gratitude. When the British Prime Minister (Tony Blair) refers to us as the "bloody Welsh" we still don't see this as the huge problem that it is.
In Wales there are a minority who are strongly pro-independence, and a minority who are strongly pro-union, but the majority of Welsh people don't feel strongly either way - they reluctantly support our position in the union because they don't believe we could ever manage on our own. This position is so depressing! Holding a political view because you believe in something in fine, but holding that view because you don't believe in anything is the ultimate abandonment of any hope for Wales's future.
The truth is there are plenty of smaller and more successful counties in the world than Wales, most of which don't have our resources or infrastructure. All we need is some ambition and self belief, along with a fiery certainty that our great country deserves much better. |
Hey Skip, it's a good post to be sure. For what it's worth of course Wales is worthy of governing itself, capability remains to be seen and I'm sure it will one day be seen.
That second paragraph, do you mean Westminster holds West Wales in contempt then? Because electrification is hapening in SE Wales. The SE corner will reap the benefits meanwhile the Welsh government has refused to improve the motorway and make getting west of Cardiff easier, does the Senedd hold west Wales in contempt too?
The tidal lagoon, well many on here felt it wasn't feasible anyway.
The biggest tragedy for me isn't the indy debate, it's the lack of it. Like I've said to Kilk, lets do it, have the debate, have the vote but set it in stone that if we choose to stay in the union the won't be another vote for X number of years (however many the Senedd and Westminster can agree on) and then we can get on with our lives.
Personally I'd like it if the Senedd did the maths, found out the truth about taxes and whether or not Wales is as heavily subsidised by England as the current figures suggest. The truth there could alter opinions. I'd also like a definite number re the UK national debt and how much Westminster would say Wales has to take on.
Then theres the debate around how we pay for the NHS, build the infrastructure we so badly need through everything right down to finding out where our EFL football teams stand if we went indy.
Lets do it, lets stop the snide comments, the backbiting, the insults and have an honest debate and a vote. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:11 - Feb 26 with 774 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 12:51 - Feb 26 by Darran |
Someone wrote a letter to the Evening Post?
Fuçk my eyes. |
It does happen Darran.
And it was printed yesterday so it is worth it. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:13 - Feb 26 with 771 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 17:35 - Feb 26 by Catullus |
Hey Skip, it's a good post to be sure. For what it's worth of course Wales is worthy of governing itself, capability remains to be seen and I'm sure it will one day be seen.
That second paragraph, do you mean Westminster holds West Wales in contempt then? Because electrification is hapening in SE Wales. The SE corner will reap the benefits meanwhile the Welsh government has refused to improve the motorway and make getting west of Cardiff easier, does the Senedd hold west Wales in contempt too?
The tidal lagoon, well many on here felt it wasn't feasible anyway.
The biggest tragedy for me isn't the indy debate, it's the lack of it. Like I've said to Kilk, lets do it, have the debate, have the vote but set it in stone that if we choose to stay in the union the won't be another vote for X number of years (however many the Senedd and Westminster can agree on) and then we can get on with our lives.
Personally I'd like it if the Senedd did the maths, found out the truth about taxes and whether or not Wales is as heavily subsidised by England as the current figures suggest. The truth there could alter opinions. I'd also like a definite number re the UK national debt and how much Westminster would say Wales has to take on.
Then theres the debate around how we pay for the NHS, build the infrastructure we so badly need through everything right down to finding out where our EFL football teams stand if we went indy.
Lets do it, lets stop the snide comments, the backbiting, the insults and have an honest debate and a vote. |
Great post from skip and a good one from you also Catullus. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:22 - Feb 26 with 769 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 10:07 - Feb 25 by Catullus |
I can't remember so I'll ask, are you for Indy but joing the EU? In which case I'll ask, how much of a voice would Wales have in the EU. We'd be an even smaller part of that with a smaller percentage voice.
Beside which surely your point is not accurate because anyone in Wales who voted Tory got the government they wanted, we returned 14 Tory MP's too. |
I'm for Indy. Not sure at the moment about rejoining the EU. I voted Remain in 2016 but if Wales ever gets Independence and then there's a rejoin referendum we'll be in a completely different place. So I can't answer that part of your question.
Re the second para, of course some people in Wales got what they wanted. But even with the dreadful result UK wise for the Labour party the Tories still didn't win in Wales. And they never have. But we've had them governing us for most of the last century. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:28 - Feb 26 with 769 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 10:24 - Feb 25 by Highjack |
England have more MP’s because their population is about 50 odd million bigger than ours. |
And that's exactly why the government will always be decided by English voters. 55 million of them, 3 million of us. And the 55 million should be able to decide who governs England.
WE should decide who governs Wales. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:30 - Feb 26 with 769 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 10:29 - Feb 25 by felixstowe_jack |
Instead wales is governed by the inept labour run Welsh Assembly. |
And we can vote them out. It's our choice. That's the point. It should be our choice who governs Wales. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:45 - Feb 26 with 765 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 10:35 - Feb 25 by Highjack |
The situation is similar in the welsh elections too in that the big population centres choose the government. Places in west and north wales tend to lean more towards Plaid and Pembrokeshire/border areas are more Tory but because the South Wales cities and M4 corridor are traditional labour they’ll never get the government they vote for. You’re never going to get it completely fair. |
If Wales as a country were to vote Labour or Tory or Plaid we'd get the government we decided on. A lot of people would be cheesed off but that's democracy. The majority wins. But currently the majority in Wales rarely wins.
If Wales was Independent we could decide on a different voting system which people might consider more fair. Change from First Past the Post to proportional or whatever. Again it would be our choice. | | | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 19:22 - Feb 26 with 750 views | Highjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:30 - Feb 26 by johnlangy |
And we can vote them out. It's our choice. That's the point. It should be our choice who governs Wales. |
Exactly. So why does that completely sound logic apply when it’s Westminster, but is ignored when it’s Brussels? |  |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 19:27 - Feb 26 with 746 views | Highjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:28 - Feb 26 by johnlangy |
And that's exactly why the government will always be decided by English voters. 55 million of them, 3 million of us. And the 55 million should be able to decide who governs England.
WE should decide who governs Wales. |
Yes but your letter suggests it’s an injustice that England has more MP’s, when it obviously isn’t. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 20:20 - Feb 26 with 733 views | exiledclaseboy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 19:27 - Feb 26 by Highjack |
Yes but your letter suggests it’s an injustice that England has more MP’s, when it obviously isn’t. |
It’s not an injustice, if anything we’re over represented at Westminster. But John’s main point stands. While we’re part of the UK we'll always be at the mercy of English dominated parliaments and governments. I’m no welsh or British nationalist either by the way. |  |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 20:45 - Feb 26 with 709 views | Catullus |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 18:28 - Feb 26 by johnlangy |
And that's exactly why the government will always be decided by English voters. 55 million of them, 3 million of us. And the 55 million should be able to decide who governs England.
WE should decide who governs Wales. |
If you're looking at it purely from a Welsh perspective then yes but speaking for myself, I look at Westminster as being the UK government and we are part of the UK. Don't forget that Westminster has shafted the North of England s much as Wales. In the same way that the Senedd has shafted most of Wales whilst looking after the SE corner.
It doesn't matter which country, which party, politicians will be politicians. Go to almost any country and a large proportion of the electorate are unhappy. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 21:23 - Feb 26 with 687 views | Kilkennyjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 20:45 - Feb 26 by Catullus |
If you're looking at it purely from a Welsh perspective then yes but speaking for myself, I look at Westminster as being the UK government and we are part of the UK. Don't forget that Westminster has shafted the North of England s much as Wales. In the same way that the Senedd has shafted most of Wales whilst looking after the SE corner.
It doesn't matter which country, which party, politicians will be politicians. Go to almost any country and a large proportion of the electorate are unhappy. |
What if Wales had full powers like Ireland ? Their GDP is now x4 times bigger than Wales.
Of course being in EU is essential. (Sorry john).
The Irish Times says 90 per cent of Irish people want to stay in EU.
They dont seem so unhappy with their lot, do they ...? | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 22:07 - Feb 26 with 675 views | LeonWasGod |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:31 - Feb 26 by SkipTheJack |
The biggest tragedy of the independence debate is how the majority of people in Wales have been convinced that we are not capable or worthy of governing ourselves. It's the ultimate form of servitude, that has been perfected by the English over the last 1600 years.
Even when the Tories came to power in 2010 and cancelled both rail electrification to Swansea and the tidal lagoon it still wasn't enough for people to get angry and open their eyes to the contempt Westminster regards us with. We instead take the scraps they feed us and tug our forelocks in gratitude. When the British Prime Minister (Tony Blair) refers to us as the "bloody Welsh" we still don't see this as the huge problem that it is.
In Wales there are a minority who are strongly pro-independence, and a minority who are strongly pro-union, but the majority of Welsh people don't feel strongly either way - they reluctantly support our position in the union because they don't believe we could ever manage on our own. This position is so depressing! Holding a political view because you believe in something in fine, but holding that view because you don't believe in anything is the ultimate abandonment of any hope for Wales's future.
The truth is there are plenty of smaller and more successful counties in the world than Wales, most of which don't have our resources or infrastructure. All we need is some ambition and self belief, along with a fiery certainty that our great country deserves much better. |
I'm not sure the minority don't care either way. I think they're comfortable with the status quo and not keen on change. That's the feeling I get anyway (viewed as an Englishman in Wales, so could be wrong).
Otherwise, excellent post. Fully agree with all points. I've always been surprised more people in wales don't seek self-government, as they do in Scotland. I'm also surprised at how many of the Welsh fight amongst themselves; it's very tribal, with division along Welsh language lines being especially noticeable (god kows why, it's your language - everyone should be proud of it and wish to see it flourish. It's part of what makes Wales. Presumably it shows how far the country's been anglophiled/Unionised? Dunno. |  | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 22:53 - Feb 26 with 654 views | Highjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 20:20 - Feb 26 by exiledclaseboy |
It’s not an injustice, if anything we’re over represented at Westminster. But John’s main point stands. While we’re part of the UK we'll always be at the mercy of English dominated parliaments and governments. I’m no welsh or British nationalist either by the way. |
Yes of course we’re at the mercy of that but so are Scotland, Northern Ireland and huge swathes of England. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 23:34 - Feb 26 with 644 views | Kilkennyjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 22:53 - Feb 26 by Highjack |
Yes of course we’re at the mercy of that but so are Scotland, Northern Ireland and huge swathes of England. |
So why would any nation accept that situation ?
One way or another its time for change.
For me its IndyWales , but whatever the current ‘Arrangements’ cannot stand. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 09:17 - Feb 27 with 616 views | BarrySwan |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:31 - Feb 26 by SkipTheJack |
The biggest tragedy of the independence debate is how the majority of people in Wales have been convinced that we are not capable or worthy of governing ourselves. It's the ultimate form of servitude, that has been perfected by the English over the last 1600 years.
Even when the Tories came to power in 2010 and cancelled both rail electrification to Swansea and the tidal lagoon it still wasn't enough for people to get angry and open their eyes to the contempt Westminster regards us with. We instead take the scraps they feed us and tug our forelocks in gratitude. When the British Prime Minister (Tony Blair) refers to us as the "bloody Welsh" we still don't see this as the huge problem that it is.
In Wales there are a minority who are strongly pro-independence, and a minority who are strongly pro-union, but the majority of Welsh people don't feel strongly either way - they reluctantly support our position in the union because they don't believe we could ever manage on our own. This position is so depressing! Holding a political view because you believe in something in fine, but holding that view because you don't believe in anything is the ultimate abandonment of any hope for Wales's future.
The truth is there are plenty of smaller and more successful counties in the world than Wales, most of which don't have our resources or infrastructure. All we need is some ambition and self belief, along with a fiery certainty that our great country deserves much better. |
Or on the other hand people could be looking at the total inadequates that rise to the top of political parties including the 4th raters in the assembly and don't see the need for creating tier after tier of hopeless incompetents filling their and their families and cronies pockets with our silver whilst running a shambles dragging Wales down in every socio and economic indicator.
Are the inadequates at Westminster any better? Not a great deal but why have layer after layer of these fools not forgetting that the inadequates in the assembly also desperately fought tooth and nail to keep yet another layer of their mates in taxpayer funded EU parliament luxury despite being told by the Welsh electorate that the wish of the people was to get rid.
Abolish the assembly and cut the numbers in Westminster whilst abolishing the paid retirement disgrace that is the House of Lords | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 09:27 - Feb 27 with 611 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 19:27 - Feb 26 by Highjack |
Yes but your letter suggests it’s an injustice that England has more MP’s, when it obviously isn’t. |
That wasn't the intention at all Highjack. With there being roughly 75,000 voters per constituency that works out at 533 for England and 40 (currently) for Wales. Perfectly fair.
I was making the point that the huge disparity in numbers of MP's means the Welsh voice isn't heard. It was in no way a criticism of England having so many MP's. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 09:42 - Feb 27 with 605 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 20:45 - Feb 26 by Catullus |
If you're looking at it purely from a Welsh perspective then yes but speaking for myself, I look at Westminster as being the UK government and we are part of the UK. Don't forget that Westminster has shafted the North of England s much as Wales. In the same way that the Senedd has shafted most of Wales whilst looking after the SE corner.
It doesn't matter which country, which party, politicians will be politicians. Go to almost any country and a large proportion of the electorate are unhappy. |
Large areas of England have also been shafted as you say. The South West along with the North East and North West. And quite rightly they are slagging off the government for that. But they are part of England so can hardly argue for Independence (maybe Cornwall will at some time) but it's very hard to imagine Yorkshire, for example, arguing to break away from the rest of England.
As Wales is a different country a valid argument can be made for Independence (whether an individual agrees with the argument or not)
And i'll make the point again. If the Sennedd shafts the rest of Wales outside the SE corner then they can vote out the governing party. It would be our choice. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 09:52 - Feb 27 with 599 views | johnlangy |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 22:53 - Feb 26 by Highjack |
Yes of course we’re at the mercy of that but so are Scotland, Northern Ireland and huge swathes of England. |
'It’s not an injustice, if anything we’re over represented at Westminster. But John’s main point stands. While we’re part of the UK we'll always be at the mercy of English dominated parliaments and governments. I’m no welsh or British nationalist either by the way.'
And that says it all. Wales is at the mercy of the UK government. It's up to the Scots and Northern Irish and various English regions to argue their case.
But we should have the option to decide the path we want Wales to take. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:10 - Feb 27 with 579 views | Catullus |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 09:52 - Feb 27 by johnlangy |
'It’s not an injustice, if anything we’re over represented at Westminster. But John’s main point stands. While we’re part of the UK we'll always be at the mercy of English dominated parliaments and governments. I’m no welsh or British nationalist either by the way.'
And that says it all. Wales is at the mercy of the UK government. It's up to the Scots and Northern Irish and various English regions to argue their case.
But we should have the option to decide the path we want Wales to take. |
John, that is exactly the point that many are making. Wales is massively in favour of remaining in the Union, more people are in favour of abolishing the Senedd and reversing devolution than want independence, that was the latest poll as analysed by Professor Awan Scully.
As such Wales is part of the union by majority concensus, we are deciding the path we want to take. That path we want to take should only change when a majority want independence.
When talking about democracy and what Wales should do, as if anyone needs reminding, Wales voted to leave the EU too so all this noise about Wales going Indy and rejoining the EU is going against the wishes of the majority. Until or unless we have a proper debate, referendum and have voted for both those things nothing should change. That's why I'm in favour of a proper, fact and truth based debate and a vote so we can put the argument to bed, one way or the other.
Going on your figures for MP's and comparing it to the Senedd, don't we have too many AM's? Then remember they want to increae their number. It's a gravy train for incompetent, parochial politicians who are failing Wales. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 11:21 - Feb 27 with 575 views | Highjack |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 23:34 - Feb 26 by Kilkennyjack |
So why would any nation accept that situation ?
One way or another its time for change.
For me its IndyWales , but whatever the current ‘Arrangements’ cannot stand. |
It’s not just about nations though. The north of England is at the mercy of the south. Most of the UK is in the same boat. 60 odd percent of the population never get the government they want. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 13:15 - Feb 27 with 562 views | Catullus |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 21:23 - Feb 26 by Kilkennyjack |
What if Wales had full powers like Ireland ? Their GDP is now x4 times bigger than Wales.
Of course being in EU is essential. (Sorry john).
The Irish Times says 90 per cent of Irish people want to stay in EU.
They dont seem so unhappy with their lot, do they ...? |
The Irish are happy to stay and it's their choice, should we decide what to based on another country's choice?
Wales' choice was made at the ballot box (to leave the EU) nd Wales is happy to stay in the UK, THAT is our choice.
You go on to say the current arrangements cannot stand well that is your opinion. My opinion is current arrangements cannot change until it's what the majority want. If the majority want change but WEstminster/Downing Street won't allow us then it will be time to start taking action.
For the record, I want to stay in the UK but if the majority voted a different way or it can be proven that the majority of public opinion is behind independence then I will back it. I will still be saying I want to stay but I will still go with the majority and try to make it work. | |
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| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 13:22 - Feb 27 with 559 views | LeonWasGod |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 19:22 - Feb 26 by Highjack |
Exactly. So why does that completely sound logic apply when it’s Westminster, but is ignored when it’s Brussels? |
Because the EU didn't govern us. Parliament is and always has been sovereign  . We chose to join , we chose to leave, we chose to abide by certain conditions of membership and had a say in how the EU was run at pretty much every level and had a bigger say in shaping it than most other countries. We elected our representatives in the elected parliament and our government selected the commissioners on our behalf, which isn't too much different to the approach with the Lords (although was FAR more efficient than the Lords).
The UK does govern Wales though. So totally different. | | | |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 13:43 - Feb 27 with 555 views | Catullus |
| WALES HAS NO VOICE IN WESTMINSTER on 13:22 - Feb 27 by LeonWasGod |
Because the EU didn't govern us. Parliament is and always has been sovereign . We chose to join , we chose to leave, we chose to abide by certain conditions of membership and had a say in how the EU was run at pretty much every level and had a bigger say in shaping it than most other countries. We elected our representatives in the elected parliament and our government selected the commissioners on our behalf, which isn't too much different to the approach with the Lords (although was FAR more efficient than the Lords).
The UK does govern Wales though. So totally different. |
The UK doesn't govern devolved matters though.
Otherwise we are just into groundhog day again, pointless.
Apart from that, obviously I agree on the HoL. An outdated, out of touch bunch of "benefits cheats" who need putting out to pasture and replcing with an elected upper chamber. | |
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