| Corona Virus 22:39 - Mar 7 with 437808 views | SgorioFruit |
Sorry for new thread,
But how bad do you lot reckon it’s going to get here in the UK?
I just been watching the news. Looking nasty in Italy. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 23:58 - Apr 1 with 1658 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 22:37 - Apr 1 by Zaxx |
I seriously hope that the Nightingales can handle the forthcoming capacity that we need.
The 0.68 that you quoted in another post won't be achievable yet, I sincerely hope that it will be within the next few weeks though.
It is widely accepted that there are 2 strains of Sars-2, an S and L variant. Not much publicised recently as it was thought that is was more of a progression as opposed to a separate strain.
CPAPs in abundance "may", and will hopefully relieve the difficulties that our ICUs will be inundated with in a very short while. Again, I sincerely hope so.
Pray for your loved ones, stay safe and stick to as much (as you possibly can) of the guidance that you're given whatever your opinion of our government/scientific advisors may be.
Take heed of the advice and limit the stress that our health service is under. And, it will get worse. Please don't be the one to contribute to the 'hard decisions' which will be taken over the next month or so. |
Excellent post. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 00:00 - Apr 2 with 1652 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 23:23 - Apr 1 by londonlisa2001 |
Agree re Nightingale. Astonishing achievement to set this up so quickly however.
Re LSHTM - the calculation was, i believe, done from a small study extrapolated to ‘best guess’ R0 following lockdown.
I read it here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-spread-idUSKBN21J5
The two strain work, I believe, showed that the Chinese believe the aggressive strain came prior to the less aggressive strain rather than the other way round ? But who knows what one can believe from them to be honest. Your last bit - couldn’t agree more. |
Usually things get less virulent as killing the host is a bad idea for an obligate parasite like a virus. There are exceptions but seems to be more a bacterial thing | | | |
| Corona Virus on 00:55 - Apr 2 with 1604 views | majorraglan |
Two concerning articles in the Guardian, the fist relates to testing or the lack of it with an exceptionally low proportion of frontline NHS staff being tested and delays in University staff being allowed to support the testing programme on account of legal issues. Hopefully the issues can be resolved quickly and we can move forward and save lives.
The second article talks about rationing healthcare and highlights that only 30 odd of the 30,000 additional ventilators required will be available by next week. Hopefully the access to private healthcare beds that the government has paid for will be able to assist with the additional demand over the next few days, but we really need this kit. Come on Boris sort it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/nhs-rules-hampering-coronavirus-te
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/01/ventilators-may-be-taken-from-st | | | |
| Corona Virus on 04:24 - Apr 2 with 1535 views | fbreath |
I wonder if Government/NHS will face compensation claims from family members whose loved ones have passed away or contracted Covid due to lack of ppe and testing.
Or family of people who have sadly passed away due to not getting the cancer treatment or operation they were going to have but was cancelled.
I imagine the ambulance chaser (excuse the pun) companies will be looking at possible mass claims for stress etc. |  |
| We are the first Welsh club to reach the Premier League Simples |
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| Corona Virus on 07:58 - Apr 2 with 1422 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 21:10 - Apr 1 by Thebus |
That’s not what Ferguson is saying.
Have a look on the bbc news website. There’s an article called “understanding the death toll” [Post edited 1 Apr 2020 21:19]
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There is an article on the BBC website and there is clearly a increased death rate from covid in younger age groups.
Even if Prof Ferguson's estimate of two thirds of the 20000 dying anyway that is still nearly 7000 who will die needlessly.
Neither of these figures show the stress that this will place on the NHS - which to me is the important thing.
For now please just do what you can to stop the spread. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 9:54]
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| Corona Virus on 08:06 - Apr 2 with 1413 views | Best_loser |
| Corona Virus on 04:24 - Apr 2 by fbreath |
I wonder if Government/NHS will face compensation claims from family members whose loved ones have passed away or contracted Covid due to lack of ppe and testing.
Or family of people who have sadly passed away due to not getting the cancer treatment or operation they were going to have but was cancelled.
I imagine the ambulance chaser (excuse the pun) companies will be looking at possible mass claims for stress etc. |
The Tories did a dry run for a pandemic 2016, it highlighted lack of ventilators and testing
The Tories have blood on their hands
A reckoning for them is coming |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 08:50 - Apr 2 with 1364 views | chad |
| Corona Virus on 13:41 - Mar 28 by chad |
I don’t think there is any doubt that the infected (symptomed or symptomless) can shed it into the air whilst infectious, nor that it can be suspended there for a time.
The question is how long is that likely to be and can that be as long as 2 hours like measles. |
At last WHO to review evidence on mask protection
Although they insist virus not airborne it has proved to at least some extent to be so.
Now there is beginning to be an acceptance in the common sense that even non P3 masks can afford some personal protection, as well as protecting others from the potential for the mask wearer to be a low symptom/ symptomless carrier
It absolutely has to be common sense given as mentioned before a cough can spread droplets 6 metres and a sneeze 8 metres (aside from persisting aerosols created), yet the WHO safe distance is just one metre.
Of corse careful handling important
There is a fair bit of research now but the following is also quite an interesting straightforward article.....
A photograph from 1940, taken for infectious research purposes at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, shows respiratory droplets released through sneezing. Bettmann/Bettmann Archive
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/28/823292062/who-reviews-available-evidence-on-coron |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 08:57 - Apr 2 with 1354 views | chad |
| Corona Virus on 00:00 - Apr 2 by Professor |
Usually things get less virulent as killing the host is a bad idea for an obligate parasite like a virus. There are exceptions but seems to be more a bacterial thing |
That’s what I thought, that is why I was surprised and disappointed when I thought I read the second strain/variation detected was worse?
––––––––-
Edit from a Guardian article yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/can-face-mask-protect-me-from-coro (although I read similar to the first part some time ago). Possibly I confused aggressive in spread to aggressive in terms of effect on host?
Genetic analysis by Chinese scientists of 103 samples of the virus, taken from patients in Wuhan and other cities, suggests that early on two main strains emerged, designated L and S. Although the L strain appeared to be more prevalent than the S strain (about 70% of the samples belonged to the former), the S branch of the virus was found to be the ancestral version.
The team behind this research suggested that this may indicate the L strain is more “aggressive”, either transmitting more easily or replicating faster inside the body. However, this theory is speculative at this stage — there haven’t yet been direct comparisons to see whether people who catch one version of the virus are more likely to pass it on or suffer more severe symptoms
(Interestingly first bit of the article on the link is about face masks) [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 10:12]
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| Corona Virus on 10:59 - Apr 2 with 1245 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 08:26 - Apr 1 by Professor |
There is no good evidence of the effect of chloroquine. The paper describing it was a poorly conducted almost fraudulent piece of science.
Malaria is not cause by a virus. It is a protozoan. A small but multicellular apicomplexan
Of the plasmodium species. Four of which cause human malaria. |
I was going to ignore this comment, but as it strongly intimates that I did not know the difference between Malaria & COVID19 I feel the need to put you straight.
The first count you are wrong on is that it has anything to do with a virus or an apicomplexan.
The proof is simple and I had already posted it.
Lupus is caused by neither virus or apicomplexan but Hydroxychloroquine and others are used to treat those with it.
https://www.lupus.org/resources/drug-spotlight-on-hydroxychloroquine
As well as that I first posted about Quinine based drugs on the 15th March here
Corona Virus - at 17:13 15 Mar 2020
"Scientists are even looking at the affect of anti-malarial drugs based on Quinine on inhibiting this virus."
and explained why here
Corona Virus - at 12:37 17 Mar 2020
"I frequent forums that find and discuss Science and Scientific news, which includes Medicine. "
The Forum and posts that I read on Anti-Malarials based on Quinine explained precisely how & why it should and appears to work.
As a knowledgeable person in medicine you should know that those drugs facilitate the body's cellular uptake of Zinc.
Zinc in the cells inhibits the virus replication, which drastically slows and eventually stops the virus invading the body. Which is why it is administered in combination with Zinc.
It also therefore acts as a prophylaxis if given before infection.
Here is the post that prompted me to mention it on the 15th of March.
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/03/14/14-march-2020-covid-19-usa-state-of-eme
There are subsequent posts on those drugs with more links to medical and other sites.
The person ( E M Smith) that runs that forum is an extremely knowledgeable retired Business Programmer with a vast number of interests. I have been reading and posting on it for many years, mainly on Climate Change. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:08]
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| Corona Virus on 11:03 - Apr 2 with 1235 views | LeonWasGod |
Looks like the Tories losing the support of their cheerleading press. Interesting times ahead for this government. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:07 - Apr 2 with 1227 views | chad |
AFD you and Hobo should prepare yourself for the humble apologies you should be receiving about mask wearing | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:09 - Apr 2 with 1218 views | CountyJim |
| Corona Virus on 21:38 - Apr 1 by majorraglan |
Great to hear that you have had a diagnosis and that you are on the road to recovery.
Do you mind if I ask what your symptoms were? Was it just the fatigue or did you have the fever, difficulty breathing, cough or any other symptoms? I know a guy who’s had it and he jst had muscle aches. |
Couple days before I was having a beer i turned to the Mrs i said I'm not enjoying my pint it doesn't taste right and wasn't tasting food
Then i was in work started coughing and feeling hot i slept 16-17hrs 3 days running but after that I was fine
I'm back in work now the strange thing is the mrs got to do 14 days i only had to do 7 |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:11 - Apr 2 with 1217 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 11:07 - Apr 2 by chad |
AFD you and Hobo should prepare yourself for the humble apologies you should be receiving about mask wearing |
Not me, just all the countries that already use it to great affect.
I was just repeating what their medical people said, especially that Head of Medicine in Korea.
He said Masks are esential but with COVID19 so are protective glasses. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:17]
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| Corona Virus on 11:11 - Apr 2 with 1216 views | LeonWasGod |
| Corona Virus on 08:50 - Apr 2 by chad |
At last WHO to review evidence on mask protection
Although they insist virus not airborne it has proved to at least some extent to be so.
Now there is beginning to be an acceptance in the common sense that even non P3 masks can afford some personal protection, as well as protecting others from the potential for the mask wearer to be a low symptom/ symptomless carrier
It absolutely has to be common sense given as mentioned before a cough can spread droplets 6 metres and a sneeze 8 metres (aside from persisting aerosols created), yet the WHO safe distance is just one metre.
Of corse careful handling important
There is a fair bit of research now but the following is also quite an interesting straightforward article.....
A photograph from 1940, taken for infectious research purposes at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, shows respiratory droplets released through sneezing. Bettmann/Bettmann Archive
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/28/823292062/who-reviews-available-evidence-on-coron |
If masks didn't work, medical professionals the world over wouldn't be clamouring to use them. That's all the evidence you need. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:12 - Apr 2 with 1214 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Corona Virus on 11:09 - Apr 2 by CountyJim |
Couple days before I was having a beer i turned to the Mrs i said I'm not enjoying my pint it doesn't taste right and wasn't tasting food
Then i was in work started coughing and feeling hot i slept 16-17hrs 3 days running but after that I was fine
I'm back in work now the strange thing is the mrs got to do 14 days i only had to do 7 |
Good to hear you are well. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 11:14 - Apr 2 with 1205 views | CountyJim |
I want to know where all the beds are coming from these new hospitals they are building because i work in a 750 bed plus hospital and we are lucky if we got 4- 5 spare working beds on the go at any one time
And looking at the beds on TV at the Nightingale they are older beds | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:23 - Apr 2 with 1185 views | chad |
| Corona Virus on 11:14 - Apr 2 by CountyJim |
I want to know where all the beds are coming from these new hospitals they are building because i work in a 750 bed plus hospital and we are lucky if we got 4- 5 spare working beds on the go at any one time
And looking at the beds on TV at the Nightingale they are older beds |
Yes I was wondering that when we saw them all lined up | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:26 - Apr 2 with 1178 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 11:14 - Apr 2 by CountyJim |
I want to know where all the beds are coming from these new hospitals they are building because i work in a 750 bed plus hospital and we are lucky if we got 4- 5 spare working beds on the go at any one time
And looking at the beds on TV at the Nightingale they are older beds |
The concept as explained by the head guy organising Excel (I have frogotten his name) for it's use is also very worrying.
He said they were going to put all the less serious cases in there and leave the very serious cases in the hospitals.
They do not seem to understand the principles of Quarantine and Isolation.
To leave the worst cases in General Hospitals makes no sense isolation wise.
It would have been far better to have a section in the Excel building where ICUs are set up for the serious cases as well, thus removing the COVID19 Virus from the general hospitals to allow them to get back to operations and safe treatment, like Chemo & Dialysis, of serious illnesses. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:31 - Apr 2 with 1163 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Why do people spend 40+ years studying medicine, epidemiology etc. when all they need to do is join a football forum? [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:32]
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| Corona Virus on 11:34 - Apr 2 with 1154 views | chad |
| Corona Virus on 11:11 - Apr 2 by LeonWasGod |
If masks didn't work, medical professionals the world over wouldn't be clamouring to use them. That's all the evidence you need. |
Not for some it seems. Even without that it is plain common sense
To be honest when I originally read the WHO advice it seemed very much aimed at protecting supplies for medics. The same point made in the Guardian article
The supermarkets are still a real concern. Perhaps the mocking of people wearing masks will stop now. Although still a little self conscious about donning full welding mask. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:40 - Apr 2 with 1131 views | chad |
| Corona Virus on 11:31 - Apr 2 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Why do people spend 40+ years studying medicine, epidemiology etc. when all they need to do is join a football forum? [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:32]
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I suppose so that people on a football forum may discuss the expert views when they are being ignored by political organisations like WHO. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:43 - Apr 2 with 1128 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 11:11 - Apr 2 by LeonWasGod |
If masks didn't work, medical professionals the world over wouldn't be clamouring to use them. That's all the evidence you need. |
The country to watch in Europe to see if it is working is the Czech Republic
Who all promoted the use of masks about mid March, most of them home made. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:48 - Apr 2 with 1112 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 11:31 - Apr 2 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Why do people spend 40+ years studying medicine, epidemiology etc. when all they need to do is join a football forum? [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:32]
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I completely agree.
One poster arguing against an obvious academic in the field because "he read it on a forum"
Thank God we have real scientists leading this battle rather than people who's scientific ability extends no further than typing something in to google. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:56 - Apr 2 with 1098 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 11:31 - Apr 2 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Why do people spend 40+ years studying medicine, epidemiology etc. when all they need to do is join a football forum? [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:32]
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So let's go through the logic shall we?
If you leave the worst cases in the General Hospital it means that all the Staff looking after them, Doctors, Nurse Auxiliaries and Porters have to move through the hospital after treating them.
It means that the virus is still in the Hospital.
But worst of all it means all the ICU beds are still blocked by COVID19 patients for weeks at a time, preventing them being used by everyone else who needs them.
Now I ask you for a Yes or No, does it sound like a good idea? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:58 - Apr 2 with 1345 views | Catullus |
Right, I've had enough of this now. This virus can do one, it is one immigrant I will happily deport!
I had THE letter today, the one that tells you to self isolate for 12 weeks, even from the rest of the household.
I wasn't sure if my medical problems put me into the higher risk group because it's not my lungs or heart but the medics have decided it does so I'm locked in, locked up for 12 weeks.
The knock on effect is that my wife has had to come home from work, Occy health and management are discussing whether she will need to take the 12 weeks off too but she doesn't drive (epilepsy) and we have an 11 year old son.
Still, as Gloria Gaynor said..... | |
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