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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 23967 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 20:45 - May 1 with 586 viewsWarwickHunt

Have the government failed? on 20:03 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

You’ve spent weeks saying that we haven’t tested people. You’ve spent the last few hours saying we haven’t tested positive people. Then you calculate the death rate by deaths over positive tests.

If you don’t see the problem I can’t help you.

You’re as thick as mince.


Bit harsh on mince.
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Have the government failed? on 20:50 - May 1 with 574 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 20:34 - May 1 by Dr_Winston

I think it's generally an internet/social media phenomenon. Everything is either brilliant, or shite. There's not really much room for balance or nuance.

I tend to get dragged into defending things I don't much agree with mainly because the opposing view is so idiotically extreme.


I agree with this.

I spent weeks arguing that Johnson was sh*t before the election. I still think he is. I can’t imagine why anyone would vote for him and his bunch of incompetents.

But I find myself defending against the bollox because it’s bollox. It’s perfectly possible to believe there have been mistakes, or areas where the response has been frankly woeful, while still recognising the impossibility of the task and getting annoyed at the nonsensical crap flying around about how we’ve done compared to Papua New Guinea.

And the adulation of Piers Morgan, who is using a horrific situation, where people’s loved ones are dying in vast numbers, to further his own career makes me nauseous.
[Post edited 1 May 20:54]
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Have the government failed? on 20:52 - May 1 with 566 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 20:45 - May 1 by WarwickHunt

Bit harsh on mince.


Quorn mince.
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Have the government failed? on 20:53 - May 1 with 565 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 20:39 - May 1 by waynekerr55



I think this is fair


Absolutely agree.
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Have the government failed? on 20:59 - May 1 with 555 viewsDr_Winston

Have the government failed? on 20:50 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

I agree with this.

I spent weeks arguing that Johnson was sh*t before the election. I still think he is. I can’t imagine why anyone would vote for him and his bunch of incompetents.

But I find myself defending against the bollox because it’s bollox. It’s perfectly possible to believe there have been mistakes, or areas where the response has been frankly woeful, while still recognising the impossibility of the task and getting annoyed at the nonsensical crap flying around about how we’ve done compared to Papua New Guinea.

And the adulation of Piers Morgan, who is using a horrific situation, where people’s loved ones are dying in vast numbers, to further his own career makes me nauseous.
[Post edited 1 May 20:54]


The Piers Morgan thing is amusing.

It's no real secret that Rupert Murdoch preferred Gove to Johnson, and the actions of the Murdoch press since back that up. Yet who knows how many people who've spent years telling people not to believe the Murdoch press, upon that Sunday Times article (or Morgan's repeated attacks on Johnson) now vehemently demand that you believe the Murdoch press?

Kilks can't help but do Rupert's bidding for him because he's too dumb to realise how he's being played.

This post has been edited by an administrator

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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Have the government failed? on 21:14 - May 1 with 538 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 20:03 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

You’ve spent weeks saying that we haven’t tested people. You’ve spent the last few hours saying we haven’t tested positive people. Then you calculate the death rate by deaths over positive tests.

If you don’t see the problem I can’t help you.

You’re as thick as mince.


You are the one that brought it up not me.
You can't use imaginary, invented or estimated numbers for comparison purposes.
And you call me thick.
I was a statitician in Fords and you are trying to tell me how to work with numbers.
I wrote process control programs for the company and calculated all monthly quality stats including for ISO9000 and Q1.
You are so up yourself you speak through your arse.
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Have the government failed? on 21:16 - May 1 with 532 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 20:12 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

It was their own self imposed target mun. Wales are doing a fraction (with a a Labour government) as a percentage of the population.

Ignoring the rubbish about 122k tests done today which is frankly complete bollox, the fact that there have been 73k actual people tested is positive compared to where we were just a week or two ago.

The bit that’s a complete mystery is why the nonsense. They’ve actually achieved a lot in a short time (from an atrocious starting point by the way) but they’ve buggered up any positivity by sh*t communication and trying to massage the truth with this nonsense. They’ve absolutely no clue about gaining any advantage at all. Everything is shrouded in crap.


Agreed.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 21:31 - May 1 with 516 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 20:03 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

You’ve spent weeks saying that we haven’t tested people. You’ve spent the last few hours saying we haven’t tested positive people. Then you calculate the death rate by deaths over positive tests.

If you don’t see the problem I can’t help you.

You’re as thick as mince.


This is how dumb you are, I specifically asked if it was deaths versus cases and you said "I did quite clearly state cases v deaths. "
Now you say I am using positive tests.
Positive tests = the number of cases.
There are no other sort of confirmed cases.
Of course you could use closed cases like worldometers do which currently shows 18% of closed cases are dead.
[Post edited 1 May 23:25]
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Have the government failed? on 21:32 - May 1 with 514 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 20:45 - May 1 by WarwickHunt

Bit harsh on mince.


Lisa arse licker number 1.
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Have the government failed? on 22:14 - May 1 with 472 viewsDJack

Have the government failed? on 18:29 - May 1 by londonlisa2001

Hmm. Achieving it by sending out 30,000 test kits to Conservative party members isn’t quite what everyone had in mind.

But in all seriousness, testing over 70,000 people in a day is a huge step forward from where we were a couple of weeks ago, which is to be applauded.


I'm quite stunned here.

If Corbyn had been in charge during this crisis and he'd sent out 30,000 kits to Labour Party members to inflate the testing figures we would have had an extra ten pages, in this thread, of people baying for blood.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Have the government failed? on 22:39 - May 1 with 447 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 22:14 - May 1 by DJack

I'm quite stunned here.

If Corbyn had been in charge during this crisis and he'd sent out 30,000 kits to Labour Party members to inflate the testing figures we would have had an extra ten pages, in this thread, of people baying for blood.


Criticise Bojo all you want for what he's done but Corbyn is irrelevant in this.

It's Starmers job now, I suppose I could criticise him for his apparently failing his first big test re anti semitism but really speaking I want to know why he isn't chasing Bojo down on this? Or is he and I missed it?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 22:44 - May 1 with 435 viewsNortbankboy

Have the government failed? on 22:39 - May 1 by Catullus

Criticise Bojo all you want for what he's done but Corbyn is irrelevant in this.

It's Starmers job now, I suppose I could criticise him for his apparently failing his first big test re anti semitism but really speaking I want to know why he isn't chasing Bojo down on this? Or is he and I missed it?


I agree he should attacking all these lies we have been told in the last couple of weeks
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Have the government failed? on 22:53 - May 1 with 427 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 22:44 - May 1 by Nortbankboy

I agree he should attacking all these lies we have been told in the last couple of weeks


Yep, trying to defend Corbyn or make out we'd be attacking him for this is absolutely pointless, what we need is Starmer holding Bojo to account.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 22:54 - May 1 with 426 viewsmajorraglan

Have the government failed? on 22:14 - May 1 by DJack

I'm quite stunned here.

If Corbyn had been in charge during this crisis and he'd sent out 30,000 kits to Labour Party members to inflate the testing figures we would have had an extra ten pages, in this thread, of people baying for blood.


A bit out of the loop today, has Boris and his chums actually sent 30,000 kits out to Conservative Party members?

If that has happened it’s nothing short of disgraceful and in my view a waste of 30,000 kits. Why randomly send them out in the post to people who may not even need them. They could have donated them to the WAG and made some good publicity out of it by highlighting the lack of testing going on here.
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Have the government failed? on 22:57 - May 1 with 420 viewsNortbankboy

Have the government failed? on 22:54 - May 1 by majorraglan

A bit out of the loop today, has Boris and his chums actually sent 30,000 kits out to Conservative Party members?

If that has happened it’s nothing short of disgraceful and in my view a waste of 30,000 kits. Why randomly send them out in the post to people who may not even need them. They could have donated them to the WAG and made some good publicity out of it by highlighting the lack of testing going on here.


Don't think we have ever had a government so creative with truth as this
One,fair play
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Have the government failed? on 23:06 - May 1 with 411 viewsDJack

Have the government failed? on 22:39 - May 1 by Catullus

Criticise Bojo all you want for what he's done but Corbyn is irrelevant in this.

It's Starmers job now, I suppose I could criticise him for his apparently failing his first big test re anti semitism but really speaking I want to know why he isn't chasing Bojo down on this? Or is he and I missed it?


I was just expressing my surprise at the fact that it seems to have passed everyone by and I used Corbyn as a hypothetical to underline/punctuate my surprise at the lack of comments from posters...Is this ok with you or do I have to follow a rigid reply structure set out by yourself?

As to critising Bojo, I'll mention this...Forgetting the need for hindsight to say whether or not that the government have failed I would propose that their immediate response was an ideological one not one of an elected legislature looking after it's nation. They only changed tack when it became apparent that the potential numbers of deaths was not politically acceptable and remember that they themselves pointed out that if they did it well the deaths would be 10-20,000...we are currently at 27.5k. Ultimately it will be history that judges whether or not that they are deemed to have failed but to date they have had many failings on show and yet they still continue to dissemble.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Have the government failed? on 23:22 - May 1 with 395 viewsmajorraglan

Have the government failed? on 23:06 - May 1 by DJack

I was just expressing my surprise at the fact that it seems to have passed everyone by and I used Corbyn as a hypothetical to underline/punctuate my surprise at the lack of comments from posters...Is this ok with you or do I have to follow a rigid reply structure set out by yourself?

As to critising Bojo, I'll mention this...Forgetting the need for hindsight to say whether or not that the government have failed I would propose that their immediate response was an ideological one not one of an elected legislature looking after it's nation. They only changed tack when it became apparent that the potential numbers of deaths was not politically acceptable and remember that they themselves pointed out that if they did it well the deaths would be 10-20,000...we are currently at 27.5k. Ultimately it will be history that judges whether or not that they are deemed to have failed but to date they have had many failings on show and yet they still continue to dissemble.


Between the week ending 27th of March and the week ending 17th of April the ONS stats record the total number of deaths as being approximately 67,000 (figure rounded up) this compares to an average of 40,000 deaths over the previous 5 years - an increase of 27,000 deaths. I would suggest the 27k increase is directly or indirectly attributable to Covid19.

If we add the 9.5k deaths attributed to Covid19 announced by “Government/PHE, WAG, Scottish Parliament etc we are up to a total of 36,000 deaths before we factor in any “ lag” figures from the ONS. I think this terrible illness will have caused /be responsible for at least 75,000 additional deaths during the 5 month period between February and the end of June. Very concerning.

I hope the victims can Rest In Peace and their loved ones can find comfort.



[Post edited 2 May 0:26]
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Have the government failed? on 01:29 - May 2 with 364 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 22:54 - May 1 by majorraglan

A bit out of the loop today, has Boris and his chums actually sent 30,000 kits out to Conservative Party members?

If that has happened it’s nothing short of disgraceful and in my view a waste of 30,000 kits. Why randomly send them out in the post to people who may not even need them. They could have donated them to the WAG and made some good publicity out of it by highlighting the lack of testing going on here.


Most of them would be over 70 so they need them more than most.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 07:34 - May 2 with 325 viewspikeypaul

I take it the title of this thread comes from the Labour Party political broadcast screened by the BBC under the name of Panorama ?

Where it has now been revealed all the “guests” were Labour activists.What a vile bunch they really are using this crisis in this way.



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Have the government failed? on 07:48 - May 2 with 317 viewsNortbankboy

Have the government failed? on 07:34 - May 2 by pikeypaul

I take it the title of this thread comes from the Labour Party political broadcast screened by the BBC under the name of Panorama ?

Where it has now been revealed all the “guests” were Labour activists.What a vile bunch they really are using this crisis in this way.



OUT

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How Matt hancock can stand up there and announce 120 k
Test and keep a straight face is unbelievable.
It only goes to show what a good liar he is.
I'll never believe a word he says in future
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Have the government failed? on 09:33 - May 2 with 282 viewssP7qupUf

Have the government failed? on 22:44 - May 1 by Nortbankboy

I agree he should attacking all these lies we have been told in the last couple of weeks


I have every confidence that he will be asking all the right questions when the time is right. It is very important that he works with the government to try to solve this crisis (and that does mean pointing out shortcomings) but avoids scoring pointless political points.This is the job of a constructive opposition in times of crisis and the actions of a true statesman.

Don't forget, for various reasons BoJo has not been in the positions where he has had to answer questions. Starmer has had Rabb on the ropes in PMQs. Hopefully, he will be able to ask BoJo some questions in the coming week. Starmer has been pushing for the government to clarify their plan to end the lockdown and this is apparently going to come next week, so he has got the ball rolling. We all know the government has lied about its preparations, PPE, Testing and has been dreadfully slow to react/lockdown and changing the rules with regard to the the status of C-19 as a disease and reuse of PPE etc. What would be gained by Starmer raising these matters now to score cheap political ? He needs to be statesmanlike and avoid sounding petty and hysterical, a la Corbyn. The time to do this is when there are more settled times and an inquiry. He can then take the government to task in a focussed measured manner.
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Have the government failed? on 09:49 - May 2 with 269 viewsmajorraglan

Have the government failed? on 01:29 - May 2 by Highjack

Most of them would be over 70 so they need them more than most.


I appreciate they may be more vulnerable on account of age, but if they aren’t showing symptoms or have reason to suspect they have been in contact with a carrier and may be infected it’s a waste of a kit.

Kits should have been targeted where they would be needed and not just sent to CP members.
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Have the government failed? on 09:58 - May 2 with 256 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 23:06 - May 1 by DJack

I was just expressing my surprise at the fact that it seems to have passed everyone by and I used Corbyn as a hypothetical to underline/punctuate my surprise at the lack of comments from posters...Is this ok with you or do I have to follow a rigid reply structure set out by yourself?

As to critising Bojo, I'll mention this...Forgetting the need for hindsight to say whether or not that the government have failed I would propose that their immediate response was an ideological one not one of an elected legislature looking after it's nation. They only changed tack when it became apparent that the potential numbers of deaths was not politically acceptable and remember that they themselves pointed out that if they did it well the deaths would be 10-20,000...we are currently at 27.5k. Ultimately it will be history that judges whether or not that they are deemed to have failed but to date they have had many failings on show and yet they still continue to dissemble.


You're perfectly entitled to your opinion and I'm perfectly entitled to mine.

If you could point out where I laid down any rigid reply structure please do, I wouldn't want to repeat my mistake.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 09:58 - May 2 with 256 viewsFireboy2

Have the government failed? on 09:33 - May 2 by sP7qupUf

I have every confidence that he will be asking all the right questions when the time is right. It is very important that he works with the government to try to solve this crisis (and that does mean pointing out shortcomings) but avoids scoring pointless political points.This is the job of a constructive opposition in times of crisis and the actions of a true statesman.

Don't forget, for various reasons BoJo has not been in the positions where he has had to answer questions. Starmer has had Rabb on the ropes in PMQs. Hopefully, he will be able to ask BoJo some questions in the coming week. Starmer has been pushing for the government to clarify their plan to end the lockdown and this is apparently going to come next week, so he has got the ball rolling. We all know the government has lied about its preparations, PPE, Testing and has been dreadfully slow to react/lockdown and changing the rules with regard to the the status of C-19 as a disease and reuse of PPE etc. What would be gained by Starmer raising these matters now to score cheap political ? He needs to be statesmanlike and avoid sounding petty and hysterical, a la Corbyn. The time to do this is when there are more settled times and an inquiry. He can then take the government to task in a focussed measured manner.


Great post, spot on

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Have the government failed? on 11:04 - May 2 with 217 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 22:14 - May 1 by DJack

I'm quite stunned here.

If Corbyn had been in charge during this crisis and he'd sent out 30,000 kits to Labour Party members to inflate the testing figures we would have had an extra ten pages, in this thread, of people baying for blood.


Must have missed this assumed Lisa was joking as I thought there had been overwhelming requests for postal tests. Had read they had mailed their members to inform them of the criteria and encourage them to take tests if necessary, but is there evidence that 30,000 kits to Conservative party members as a result of the Mail, were requested / sent / included in the (was it) 120k figure.

The inclusion of postal tests sent out in the daily figure is decisive, though probably the easiest way to count them as tests provided. But they will not be able to count them when the tests are actually returned and carried out, so numbers should be the same. Although some may be requesting tests to sit on them (not literally).
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