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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 25494 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 18:56 - May 2 with 735 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 17:28 - May 2 by raynor94

Surely even you enjoy Afd being schooled by the most erudite poster on here.


She couldn't school kids let alone adults.
Or haven't you noticed she refuses to answer the question?
Just calls me stupid instead.
[Post edited 2 May 19:13]
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Have the government failed? on 18:57 - May 2 with 734 viewsexiledclaseboy

Have the government failed? on 18:56 - May 2 by A_Fans_Dad

She couldn't school kids let alone adults.
Or haven't you noticed she refuses to answer the question?
Just calls me stupid instead.
[Post edited 2 May 19:13]


Yeah but to be fair, you make it easy.

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Have the government failed? on 19:01 - May 2 with 725 viewsSwanjaxs

Have the government failed? on 18:57 - May 2 by exiledclaseboy

Yeah but to be fair, you make it easy.


I sense a graph whinging our way 👀

You might think I've forgotten, but one day, when you least expect it, my time will come.
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Have the government failed? on 19:16 - May 2 with 707 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 18:57 - May 2 by exiledclaseboy

Yeah but to be fair, you make it easy.


Typically when posters resort to abuse it is because they have lost the argument and that is Lisa to a tee.
And not just with me.
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Have the government failed? on 19:19 - May 2 with 703 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 17:28 - May 2 by raynor94

Surely even you enjoy Afd being schooled by the most erudite poster on here.


Everything I have posted has been correct
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Have the government failed? on 19:22 - May 2 with 700 viewsSwanjaxs

Have the government failed? on 19:16 - May 2 by A_Fans_Dad

Typically when posters resort to abuse it is because they have lost the argument and that is Lisa to a tee.
And not just with me.


Funny you should say this, I have always thought Lisa and ECB is the same poster using two usernames...

It all makes sense now 😯

You might think I've forgotten, but one day, when you least expect it, my time will come.
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Have the government failed? on 19:32 - May 2 with 681 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 19:01 - May 2 by Swanjaxs

I sense a graph whinging our way 👀


Nothing I love more than a whinging graph to be fair Jaxs.

Except maybe a moaning blueprint.

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Have the government failed? on 19:55 - May 2 with 660 viewsSwanjaxs

Have the government failed? on 19:32 - May 2 by monmouth

Nothing I love more than a whinging graph to be fair Jaxs.

Except maybe a moaning blueprint.


🙈

You might think I've forgotten, but one day, when you least expect it, my time will come.
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Have the government failed? on 20:07 - May 2 with 638 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 17:28 - May 2 by raynor94

Surely even you enjoy Afd being schooled by the most erudite poster on here.


Except ...Lisa has been wrong on this one since early/mid March.

Said she was pleased that Johnson was following the science when he was advised by the Cummings influenced SAGE group, and UK science was somehow different from the rest of the world.

AFD on the other hand has called it right from the kick off.

We are the second worst performing country in the world. Fact.


‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 20:47 - May 2 with 608 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 20:07 - May 2 by Kilkennyjack

Except ...Lisa has been wrong on this one since early/mid March.

Said she was pleased that Johnson was following the science when he was advised by the Cummings influenced SAGE group, and UK science was somehow different from the rest of the world.

AFD on the other hand has called it right from the kick off.

We are the second worst performing country in the world. Fact.



However often you repeat it doesn’t make it true.

My first comment in the government advice was:

“ It’s not a case of I believe them and you don’t. I have no idea whether they are right or not. And neither do you.

I just have no idea what we do other than believe them.

I do know that the CMO knows more than either of us. ”

In response to fansdad.

I also said:

“ I have little time for Johnson, as has been made obvious, but he is refusing to bow to political pressure and is following the advice of the experts. Which is brave. Whether correct or not. ”

I went in to say:

“ As I’ve said before, I have no idea.

But I can sort of see their point.

If it was up to me I’d have everyone I know stay inside for 6 months until they have a vaccine or treatment. But these guys seem to have significant expertise.

It’s a hell of a risk. But their whole strategy seems to be protecting older people and those most at risk while almost wanting it to spread in younger people and kids. ”

Your ‘facts’ are a f****ing joke btw.

Every day you rejoice in British people dying.

At the end of all this, if the UK has done ok compared to other nations you’ll be absolutely gutted. Have a think about that.
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Have the government failed? on 21:08 - May 2 with 577 viewsjack2jack

Risca,Hope that all the above has answered your question.
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Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 3 with 472 viewsKilkennyjack




Yes, by any measure the UK Tory govt has failed.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 10:39 - May 3 with 462 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 20:47 - May 2 by londonlisa2001

However often you repeat it doesn’t make it true.

My first comment in the government advice was:

“ It’s not a case of I believe them and you don’t. I have no idea whether they are right or not. And neither do you.

I just have no idea what we do other than believe them.

I do know that the CMO knows more than either of us. ”

In response to fansdad.

I also said:

“ I have little time for Johnson, as has been made obvious, but he is refusing to bow to political pressure and is following the advice of the experts. Which is brave. Whether correct or not. ”

I went in to say:

“ As I’ve said before, I have no idea.

But I can sort of see their point.

If it was up to me I’d have everyone I know stay inside for 6 months until they have a vaccine or treatment. But these guys seem to have significant expertise.

It’s a hell of a risk. But their whole strategy seems to be protecting older people and those most at risk while almost wanting it to spread in younger people and kids. ”

Your ‘facts’ are a f****ing joke btw.

Every day you rejoice in British people dying.

At the end of all this, if the UK has done ok compared to other nations you’ll be absolutely gutted. Have a think about that.


Personal abuse shows you up badly.
You should withdraw that.

This is you telling the Prof off on 08 March ... you were wrong. Prof was correct to be warning people of the reality. Bury head in sand does not defeat a pandemic.


‘Sorry prof, but people can be anything from completely asymptomatic through feeling as though they have a slight cold up.

I don’t think saying things like ‘essentially you suffocate’ is at all helpful. Indeed, it’s pretty irresponsible. Many people get pneumonia each year and many recover.

At present, of the 273 reported cases in the UK, there are no cases being reported that are classed as serious or critical.

It is quite obviously not ‘just the flu’ as countries have never quarantined 16m people for the ‘flu’. But at present, there is still huge uncertainty and medical opinion is changing quite rapidly. Just a few weeks ago everyone was convinced it was spreading from asymptomatic cases. Now the6 are saying that’s not the case. Which makes things easier. People being blasé is unhelpful but equally people making others panic is unhelpful.’

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Have the government failed? on 10:45 - May 3 with 451 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 3 by Kilkennyjack




Yes, by any measure the UK Tory govt has failed.


Reckon we could set James Melville up with Janice Greve? I think they’d be perfect for each other. Perhaps they could adopt Lloyd and be the perfect family.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 11:21 - May 3 with 432 viewsmajorraglan

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 3 by Kilkennyjack




Yes, by any measure the UK Tory govt has failed.


I think he’s right that the actual number of deaths linked to Covid19 is much closer to 50,000.

The UK government reported there had been 17,994 Covid19 up to the 17th of April, the ONS figures recorded there had been an additional 27,000 deaths when compared to the average number of deaths recorded for the previous 5 years (roughly 10k per week). The ONS figures are nearly 50% higher than the Covid19 figures. The official figure is now 28,131, if we apply the same. 50% uplift the figure increases to 42,000 however we have recently had these terrible reports about the high number of deaths in care homes which could further increase the rate.

Getting a true picture is very difficult because lots of the countries are reporting in different ways, our Government were initially only recording those who fell in to a narrow category but that’s now been expanded to include care homes etc. The only way we will really know the true picture is when the ONS figures are compared with the equivalent data produced in the other countries.
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Have the government failed? on 11:43 - May 3 with 421 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 3 by Kilkennyjack




Yes, by any measure the UK Tory govt has failed.


Compares an estimated figure with the official figures of other cherry picked nations to try to make a political point.

Does Killy have a filter on his twitter searches to only include innumerate idiots?

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Have the government failed? on 12:03 - May 3 with 402 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 11:43 - May 3 by Joe_bradshaw

Compares an estimated figure with the official figures of other cherry picked nations to try to make a political point.

Does Killy have a filter on his twitter searches to only include innumerate idiots?


It very much seems that way!

Worldometers doesn't have us the worst, we come 3rd, Spain and Italy have done worse than us.
Interestingly, after reading Monmouth's link on the other thread, Sweden have done better than several countries despite doing very little, no lockdown, no schools shut. Of course the comparison is hardly accurate until we know the end totals, we don't know (well I don't) their place on the curve, how far behind us they are.

Who estimates we have 50k deaths then? Is that a genuine estimate from a trustworthy source or just an exaggeration by a tory hating social media page?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Have the government failed? on 12:36 - May 3 with 378 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 10:39 - May 3 by Kilkennyjack

Personal abuse shows you up badly.
You should withdraw that.

This is you telling the Prof off on 08 March ... you were wrong. Prof was correct to be warning people of the reality. Bury head in sand does not defeat a pandemic.


‘Sorry prof, but people can be anything from completely asymptomatic through feeling as though they have a slight cold up.

I don’t think saying things like ‘essentially you suffocate’ is at all helpful. Indeed, it’s pretty irresponsible. Many people get pneumonia each year and many recover.

At present, of the 273 reported cases in the UK, there are no cases being reported that are classed as serious or critical.

It is quite obviously not ‘just the flu’ as countries have never quarantined 16m people for the ‘flu’. But at present, there is still huge uncertainty and medical opinion is changing quite rapidly. Just a few weeks ago everyone was convinced it was spreading from asymptomatic cases. Now the6 are saying that’s not the case. Which makes things easier. People being blasé is unhelpful but equally people making others panic is unhelpful.’


Again, you selectively quote to remove context.

I was replying to a conversation in which mild cases were being compared to serious cases, with an 80:20 split. Professor stated ‘essentially you suffocate’ while talking about serious cases.

My post stated that it was going to panic people if they thought what was being said was that 20% of infections would result in suffocation.

There is nothing ‘wrong’ with that. It was a statement of fact.

Only a small number of even the 20% get to that sort of point. Panicking people is severely detrimental to health and I was pointing that out.

The fact that you’ve quite obviously tried to look for ‘evidence’ that I’ve been ‘wrong since the start’ and you’ve managed to come up with that, again obviously shows that you’re mistaken.

As you could see from the posts I attached, I repeatedly said that I had no idea whether the experts were right or wrong, simply that we had no option other than to listen to them. I also made the point several times that the CMO, CSA etc etc have significantly more knowledge than posters on here, including me.

As for the personal abuse bit - you have consistently and repeatedly abused me. You’ve distorted what I’ve said on any number of occasions because I’ve annoyed you by calling out your ghoulish delight in attempting to find half baked opinions, masquerading as ‘facts’ to ‘prove’ the UK is worse than everyone else.

You’ve done so again this morning, when you’ve compared an extrapolated figure of how bad it ‘could’ be against official figures of other nations where a similar extrapolation exercise has not been carried out.

I repeat, we are not yet at the end of the beginning, let alone through this. If in a year’s time, the UK has ended up with spectacular outcome compared to similar countries, you will be absolutely gutted.
For the absence of doubt, I don’t expect that to happen, by the way, I suspect we’ll all end up roughly in the same place, with some doing a bit better and some a bit worse at different stages but with places of similar population densities throughout Europe looking at similar outcomes.
I have no doubt that you will then spend months comparing London to small towns in New Zealand, Slovakia or Finland to ‘prove’ how shit we’ve been.
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Have the government failed? on 12:45 - May 3 with 356 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 11:43 - May 3 by Joe_bradshaw

Compares an estimated figure with the official figures of other cherry picked nations to try to make a political point.

Does Killy have a filter on his twitter searches to only include innumerate idiots?


His twitter feed is beyond parody at this point.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 12:53 - May 3 with 346 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 20:47 - May 2 by londonlisa2001

However often you repeat it doesn’t make it true.

My first comment in the government advice was:

“ It’s not a case of I believe them and you don’t. I have no idea whether they are right or not. And neither do you.

I just have no idea what we do other than believe them.

I do know that the CMO knows more than either of us. ”

In response to fansdad.

I also said:

“ I have little time for Johnson, as has been made obvious, but he is refusing to bow to political pressure and is following the advice of the experts. Which is brave. Whether correct or not. ”

I went in to say:

“ As I’ve said before, I have no idea.

But I can sort of see their point.

If it was up to me I’d have everyone I know stay inside for 6 months until they have a vaccine or treatment. But these guys seem to have significant expertise.

It’s a hell of a risk. But their whole strategy seems to be protecting older people and those most at risk while almost wanting it to spread in younger people and kids. ”

Your ‘facts’ are a f****ing joke btw.

Every day you rejoice in British people dying.

At the end of all this, if the UK has done ok compared to other nations you’ll be absolutely gutted. Have a think about that.


I've read this a few times and as I'm obvioudly not seeing what Kilkenny sees, can someone please tell me what in ther is personal abuse?

Unless kilk considers himself a 'fact' because I have come to think of kilk as a parody account.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Have the government failed? on 13:11 - May 3 with 310 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 10:31 - May 3 by Kilkennyjack




Yes, by any measure the UK Tory govt has failed.


Excellent, thread ended.


Just to tie it up could you list
* the precise definitions for stats you used and worldwide figures
* Analysis of stats provided against actuals, extrapolated by best confirmatory measures available
* audit measures to ensure complete and accurate reporting worldwide (measuring like with like)

Also the impacting metrics you used to draw that conclusion and the weighting factors you plugged in (including interdependency allowances made between impacting variables) e.g.
Population
Population density
Population spread patterns and analysis by same
Population living patterns
Levels of risk factors
Age profiles
Fitness levels
Vitamin D Levels
Usual transport links and people movement numbers both within the country and into the country, analysed by population centre
Degree of population interaction / gathering
Above relating to early establishment prior to identified cases
Weather variables
Elapsed (rather than absolute) shutdown time in relation to first Identified case
Etc, etc.

Got to say this is an impressive piece of work to come to such a conclusion, before this virus has concluded. Cannot wait to see your detailed stats, sure they will be boon to the world review on pandemic response.


BTW how do you think we have done in Wales on testing, abandoning targets, saying it was wasteful, testing non symptomatic in care homes, then doing a u turn to fall in line with others, still I presume not rolling out to offer tests to symptomatic over 65s? Or is it perhaps a little too early to say?
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Have the government failed? on 13:14 - May 3 with 302 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 13:11 - May 3 by chad

Excellent, thread ended.


Just to tie it up could you list
* the precise definitions for stats you used and worldwide figures
* Analysis of stats provided against actuals, extrapolated by best confirmatory measures available
* audit measures to ensure complete and accurate reporting worldwide (measuring like with like)

Also the impacting metrics you used to draw that conclusion and the weighting factors you plugged in (including interdependency allowances made between impacting variables) e.g.
Population
Population density
Population spread patterns and analysis by same
Population living patterns
Levels of risk factors
Age profiles
Fitness levels
Vitamin D Levels
Usual transport links and people movement numbers both within the country and into the country, analysed by population centre
Degree of population interaction / gathering
Above relating to early establishment prior to identified cases
Weather variables
Elapsed (rather than absolute) shutdown time in relation to first Identified case
Etc, etc.

Got to say this is an impressive piece of work to come to such a conclusion, before this virus has concluded. Cannot wait to see your detailed stats, sure they will be boon to the world review on pandemic response.


BTW how do you think we have done in Wales on testing, abandoning targets, saying it was wasteful, testing non symptomatic in care homes, then doing a u turn to fall in line with others, still I presume not rolling out to offer tests to symptomatic over 65s? Or is it perhaps a little too early to say?


On the last bit, I can’t understand why Wales isn’t signed up to the UK testing now (Scotland are).

It makes no sense to me.
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Have the government failed? on 13:35 - May 3 with 281 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 13:14 - May 3 by londonlisa2001

On the last bit, I can’t understand why Wales isn’t signed up to the UK testing now (Scotland are).

It makes no sense to me.


Wales is operating a different system of testing. We are only testing those with symptoms and not blanket testing like England is.
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Have the government failed? on 13:45 - May 3 with 272 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 13:35 - May 3 by controversial_jack

Wales is operating a different system of testing. We are only testing those with symptoms and not blanket testing like England is.


England is only testing those with symptoms, other than more blanket testing in the NHS.

But anyone over the age of 65 with symptoms (even mild) plus anyone in an essential industry (and families) with symptoms, and anyone who needs to leave the house to work (and families) can all now be tested.

It makes no sense that Wales aren’t signed up to the huge increase in capacity, as Scotland are.

The roll out of more testing in Wales is still a week or two away - just use the same system as England. It’s pointless duplicating efforts.
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Have the government failed? on 14:04 - May 3 with 237 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 13:45 - May 3 by londonlisa2001

England is only testing those with symptoms, other than more blanket testing in the NHS.

But anyone over the age of 65 with symptoms (even mild) plus anyone in an essential industry (and families) with symptoms, and anyone who needs to leave the house to work (and families) can all now be tested.

It makes no sense that Wales aren’t signed up to the huge increase in capacity, as Scotland are.

The roll out of more testing in Wales is still a week or two away - just use the same system as England. It’s pointless duplicating efforts.


The Welsh govt believes that mass testing is a waste of resources, because a negative result is meaningless , as someone could pick it up the next day if they go back to work etc.If it's right or wrong who knows
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