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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 27654 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 12:34 - Apr 27 with 1565 viewsWarwickHunt

Have the government failed? on 11:42 - Apr 27 by raynor94

Can't argue at all over the events, the two stereophonics, concerts in Cardiff, were nothing short of criminal


Overrated pub band but that's a bit strong...
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Have the government failed? on 12:53 - Apr 27 with 1533 viewsNeath_Jack

Is failed the same as made mistakes?

What would success have looked like?

You will not find the answer on Planet Swans that's for certain, no matter how much posters pontificate.

I want a mate like Flashberryjacks, who wears a Barnsley jersey with "Swans are my second team" on the back.
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Have the government failed? on 12:58 - Apr 27 with 1522 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 11:57 - Apr 27 by Professor

Not completely, but a poor performance

1. Poorly prepared, given this was clearly coming
2. Too slow to act. The lockdown was about a week later than it should have been. Any earlier and it would have caused other problem
3. Not following scientific advice. I am sure it will emerge that the Herd Immunity option was not the main recommendation but was selected by Valance and Cummings to go forward to cabinet. This also links ti the late lockdown
4. Lack of transparency and downright lies
5. No concern for care sector
6. Hiding behind the Thursday clap, Captain Tom etc. to disguise the fact the NHS has been systematically run-down to allow a complete privitisation


I would say that list would point to a monumental failure
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Have the government failed? on 13:33 - Apr 27 with 1474 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 09:27 - Apr 27 by Best_loser

UK deaths ....43,000

Vietnam deaths .....1


Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, UK, thst is the deaths per capita from highest down, we are 5th.
We could have done better but things could have been worse.

Basically, I agree with Dr Winston on this.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Have the government failed? on 13:35 - Apr 27 with 1469 viewsGlyn1

I'd give the government 5 marks out of 10.

There are plenty of failings as listed above, but it's an unprecedented situation. I'll give them credit for finding the magic money tree and spending money on firms, and furloughing people even though most of the money hasn't arrived yet. Also they should take their own share of the credit that the NHS hasn't so far been overwhelmed.

When you compare the UK daily briefings with Trump's the difference in tone is staggering.

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Have the government failed? on 14:05 - Apr 27 with 1428 viewskarnataka

Have the government failed? on 12:58 - Apr 27 by controversial_jack

I would say that list would point to a monumental failure


Indeed, but I would also say it's an incomplete list. I would also add:

Johnson going on holiday for 11 days in February after we'd already had confirmed cases in the UK

Johnson missing 5 COBRA meetings in Feb

Between mid-Feb and end March, the UK missing 8 conference calls or meetings to discuss Covid-19 with other EU heads of state or health ministers.
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Have the government failed? on 15:04 - Apr 27 with 1375 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 13:33 - Apr 27 by Catullus

Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, UK, thst is the deaths per capita from highest down, we are 5th.
We could have done better but things could have been worse.

Basically, I agree with Dr Winston on this.


Belgium has been recording all deaths, inc those in care homes.etc. The uk is 32 in the list for most densely populated countries , yet 5th in the list of deaths.That doesn't look good to me at all
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Have the government failed? on 15:07 - Apr 27 with 1370 viewsNeath_Jack

Have the government failed? on 12:58 - Apr 27 by controversial_jack

I would say that list would point to a monumental failure


But those are not facts, they are the Profs opinion.

Some, or all may turn out to be true, but until proven they remain opinion.

I want a mate like Flashberryjacks, who wears a Barnsley jersey with "Swans are my second team" on the back.
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Have the government failed? on 15:10 - Apr 27 with 1368 viewsmajorraglan

Have the government failed? on 11:42 - Apr 27 by raynor94

Can't argue at all over the events, the two stereophonics, concerts in Cardiff, were nothing short of criminal


As was not cancelling the Wales game until after thousands of Scots had descended on Wales and allowing Benetton Treviso to travel to play the Gwent Dragons in mid March.
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Have the government failed? on 15:11 - Apr 27 with 1367 viewsWxmJax

Have the government failed? on 10:58 - Apr 27 by raynor94

With respect, those two countries have barely a bigger population than London alone.

By major, I meant Italy, Spain and France, countries with large populations


Athens alone has a population density per square kilometre greater than any UK city, yet the total number of Greek deaths is below 150. That is fewer than any of the largest UK cities totals.

Wales has had more deaths than the whole of Greece in every one of the four South Wales health board regions, EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, despite having a population less than Athens.

Wales 3 million pop 796 deaths
Greece 10 million pop. 135 deaths

This is down to Greece shutting down immediately because their health service is in such a mess it wouldn't have been able to cope.

So with respect, wake up and smell the roses.
[Post edited 27 Apr 15:21]

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Have the government failed? on 15:20 - Apr 27 with 1348 viewsraynor94

Have the government failed? on 15:11 - Apr 27 by WxmJax

Athens alone has a population density per square kilometre greater than any UK city, yet the total number of Greek deaths is below 150. That is fewer than any of the largest UK cities totals.

Wales has had more deaths than the whole of Greece in every one of the four South Wales health board regions, EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, despite having a population less than Athens.

Wales 3 million pop 796 deaths
Greece 10 million pop. 135 deaths

This is down to Greece shutting down immediately because their health service is in such a mess it wouldn't have been able to cope.

So with respect, wake up and smell the roses.
[Post edited 27 Apr 15:21]


If you read my first post in the thread, I said we should have shut down 2 weeks earlier.

I bow to your greater knowledge on Athens.

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game

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Have the government failed? on 15:21 - Apr 27 with 1348 viewscontroversial_jack

Have the government failed? on 15:07 - Apr 27 by Neath_Jack

But those are not facts, they are the Profs opinion.

Some, or all may turn out to be true, but until proven they remain opinion.


They will remain opinions too. The govt is certainly not going to admit to any failings, but overall stats when this has finished will give us a fuller picture.
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Have the government failed? on 15:32 - Apr 27 with 1319 viewsWxmJax

Have the government failed? on 15:20 - Apr 27 by raynor94

If you read my first post in the thread, I said we should have shut down 2 weeks earlier.

I bow to your greater knowledge on Athens.


I just googled it. We should have shut down even earlier. Not putting people arriving at Heathrow, etc in to quarantine immediately tells you all you need to know what this government are doing. Have a look at this.

https://time.com/5824836/greece-coronavirus/

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Have the government failed? on 15:40 - Apr 27 with 1290 viewsraynor94

Have the government failed? on 15:32 - Apr 27 by WxmJax

I just googled it. We should have shut down even earlier. Not putting people arriving at Heathrow, etc in to quarantine immediately tells you all you need to know what this government are doing. Have a look at this.

https://time.com/5824836/greece-coronavirus/


100% agree with you on the Heathrow fiasco, stable door is now bolted, but sadly the horse has gone.

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game

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Have the government failed? on 15:41 - Apr 27 with 1285 viewsjack2jack

Have the government failed? on 15:32 - Apr 27 by WxmJax

I just googled it. We should have shut down even earlier. Not putting people arriving at Heathrow, etc in to quarantine immediately tells you all you need to know what this government are doing. Have a look at this.

https://time.com/5824836/greece-coronavirus/


I've been saying this for weeks, it the biggest single failure, we should have act sooner, much sooner.
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Have the government failed? on 16:55 - Apr 27 with 1230 viewsGlyn1

Have the government failed? on 15:40 - Apr 27 by raynor94

100% agree with you on the Heathrow fiasco, stable door is now bolted, but sadly the horse has gone.


https://www.airport-london-heathrow.com/lhr-arrivals

There are still planes flying into Heathrow, although not many. Perhaps they're bringing back stranded Brits.

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Have the government failed? on 17:55 - Apr 27 with 1166 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 16:55 - Apr 27 by Glyn1

https://www.airport-london-heathrow.com/lhr-arrivals

There are still planes flying into Heathrow, although not many. Perhaps they're bringing back stranded Brits.


Possibly also supplies? WHO quite recently still saying stopping flights would not be effective, don’t agree, but just my opinion.

Didn’t Germany shut up shop at much the same time as us. Wasn’t their first person to person infection around the 20th Jan. Did they lock down quicker, slower or much the same time interval as us.

As said a lot of opinions, which do not make fact and we are a long way off the finish line so we do not what the end result is. Hopefully for the sake of lessons learned this will be fully investigated in all countries.
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Have the government failed? on 18:04 - Apr 27 with 1143 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 14:05 - Apr 27 by karnataka

Indeed, but I would also say it's an incomplete list. I would also add:

Johnson going on holiday for 11 days in February after we'd already had confirmed cases in the UK

Johnson missing 5 COBRA meetings in Feb

Between mid-Feb and end March, the UK missing 8 conference calls or meetings to discuss Covid-19 with other EU heads of state or health ministers.


Think the COBRA meetings you refer to were Jan / Feb

We are not in the EU so cannot discuss with OTHER EU heads
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Have the government failed? on 18:25 - Apr 27 with 1124 viewsWxmJax

This may be of interest. BBC1 7.30 this evening

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hr3y

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Have the government failed? on 18:30 - Apr 27 with 1114 viewslonglostjack

Have the government failed? on 15:32 - Apr 27 by WxmJax

I just googled it. We should have shut down even earlier. Not putting people arriving at Heathrow, etc in to quarantine immediately tells you all you need to know what this government are doing. Have a look at this.

https://time.com/5824836/greece-coronavirus/


Yes. They handed out leaflets to people arriving from China though.😩

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Have the government failed? on 18:31 - Apr 27 with 1109 viewslondonlisa2001

The lockdown is a very difficult one.

It is increasingly apparent that the people saying lockdown could only hold for a finite period were correct. It is beginning to fray, probably fracture completely at the edges. Noticeably so.

If the lockdown had started a week earlier, it would have started to break a week earlier. When the infection rates were far higher than they are now, so whereas the ‘first wave’ may have looked better, the possibility of a second wave would have been far higher, which MAY have led to a worse fatality rate overall.

One of the biggest problems is that the virus was quite obviously here in far greater numbers, far earlier than was thought. The Kings College tracker App project that’s been run here in London for weeks, now I think UK wide, suggests that the peak of the virus in London was probably late March, with infections being rife as far back as January.
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Have the government failed? on 18:35 - Apr 27 with 1099 viewsperplex

Have the government failed? on 09:32 - Apr 27 by raynor94

Should have locked down 2 weeks earlier, and the arrivals at Heathrow have been a farce.

Apart from Germany, have any of the major European countries managed it any better


All of them are bar the ignorant arrogant and we know better countries such as France, Italy, Spain and of course the UK, now the four countries are paying a heavy price and once they realised they fcuked up have been desperately trying to make up for the mistakes they originally made, sadly now probably a lot more lives than need be have been lost.
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Have the government failed? on 18:38 - Apr 27 with 1090 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 16:55 - Apr 27 by Glyn1

https://www.airport-london-heathrow.com/lhr-arrivals

There are still planes flying into Heathrow, although not many. Perhaps they're bringing back stranded Brits.


This is one of the surreal conversations where everyone is simultaneously claiming there are thousands of travellers into Heathrow while also claiming every other country is locked down for air travel. Both can’t be true...

Flights are largely cargo or people coming home. There are not holiday makers merrily dropping into London. There’s nowhere open and nowhere for them to stay. And all the banks, consultancy firms, legal firms that lead to large numbers of work travel are shut. Everyone is working from home in those businesses.

Plus of course, given everyone seems to think the UK is the worst affected country, allowing people in reduces the risk, not increases it, as we’re far more likely to have it than the people coming here.
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Have the government failed? on 18:43 - Apr 27 with 1082 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 18:35 - Apr 27 by perplex

All of them are bar the ignorant arrogant and we know better countries such as France, Italy, Spain and of course the UK, now the four countries are paying a heavy price and once they realised they fcuked up have been desperately trying to make up for the mistakes they originally made, sadly now probably a lot more lives than need be have been lost.


The countries that have been worse affected are largely the countries with the biggest amount of business connectivity to the rest of the world. The ones you mention, but also the Netherlands. The countries that are either not particularly connected, or are connected through tourism only, have escaped relatively lightly.

Germany is the outlier to that, but needs to be regarded with some caution due to the post mortem issue there and incredibly late reporting of ‘all death’ statistics.

All points towards the virus circulating far earlier than originally thought.

Edited - Belgium also.
[Post edited 27 Apr 18:44]
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Have the government failed? on 18:51 - Apr 27 with 1055 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 15:04 - Apr 27 by controversial_jack

Belgium has been recording all deaths, inc those in care homes.etc. The uk is 32 in the list for most densely populated countries , yet 5th in the list of deaths.That doesn't look good to me at all


Belgium is more desnely populated than us but the other countries aren't,

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-density/

but it has to be taken in the proper context and it's not just all about density, there are many factors.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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