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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 23962 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 20:34 - May 4 with 625 viewsBanosswan

Have the government failed? on 20:28 - May 4 by A_Fans_Dad

I bow to your superior knowledge.
You should write to her and tell her she is misleading the public.
Perhaps you should also tell hospitals they don't work as advertised.
ie Indirectly measure the Oxygen in the blood and they shouldn't use them either.
https://www.healthline.com/health/pulse-oximetry#purpose-and-uses


Stop Googling something you know nothing about. They're a useful monitoring tool, but to 'measure the amount of oxygen in the blood', you need an arterial blood sample, or at least a capillary blood gas.

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Have the government failed? on 20:43 - May 4 with 610 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Have the government failed? on 20:34 - May 4 by Banosswan

Stop Googling something you know nothing about. They're a useful monitoring tool, but to 'measure the amount of oxygen in the blood', you need an arterial blood sample, or at least a capillary blood gas.


We use them as part of the interview for cardiologists at Swansea university. It's not about the test though, it's about how the prospective students interact with the "patients". They're usually terrified of course. No nail varnish allowed.

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Have the government failed? on 20:44 - May 4 with 607 viewsBanosswan

Have the government failed? on 20:43 - May 4 by Joe_bradshaw

We use them as part of the interview for cardiologists at Swansea university. It's not about the test though, it's about how the prospective students interact with the "patients". They're usually terrified of course. No nail varnish allowed.


Don't get me started on nurses sticking pulse oximeters on patients with false nails or nail varnish and declaring the results 'fine'.

Ever since my son was... never conceived, because I've never had consensual sex without money involved... I've always kind of looked at you as... a thing, that I could live next to... in accordance with state laws.
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Have the government failed? on 20:45 - May 4 with 606 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 20:34 - May 4 by Banosswan

Stop Googling something you know nothing about. They're a useful monitoring tool, but to 'measure the amount of oxygen in the blood', you need an arterial blood sample, or at least a capillary blood gas.


Yes I know that, that is why Hospitals use Oximeters as a monitor, not for definitive values, as it points out in the article I linked to.
If you had bothered to read the second link I posted you would have seen that with COVID-19 they are seeing massive drops in blood Oxygen levels which is why the recommneded it.
When I say massive it talks about finding incoming patients as low as 50%, which I am sure an Oximeter would pick up.
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Have the government failed? on 12:03 - May 5 with 504 viewsKilkennyjack



Campbell seems pretty clear on the question asked.

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Have the government failed? on 13:41 - May 5 with 476 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 12:03 - May 5 by Kilkennyjack



Campbell seems pretty clear on the question asked.


Campbell, because he never span anything?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Have the government failed? on 17:10 - May 5 with 433 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 13:41 - May 5 by Catullus

Campbell, because he never span anything?


Whataboutery Cat

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Have the government failed? on 17:11 - May 5 with 428 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 12:03 - May 5 by Kilkennyjack



Campbell seems pretty clear on the question asked.


Pot kettle black

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Have the government failed? on 17:24 - May 5 with 408 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 17:11 - May 5 by Highjack

Pot kettle black


And again HJ.

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Have the government failed? on 17:27 - May 5 with 407 viewsjack2jack

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8288363/Britain-got-big-influx-coronavi
This is what happens when you open the floodgates, ignore it if you like, but it was a fvck up from day one.
[Post edited 5 May 19:38]
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Have the government failed? on 17:33 - May 5 with 403 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 17:10 - May 5 by monmouth

Whataboutery Cat


What about it

Isn’t it the eternal faux defence for hypocrisy?
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Have the government failed? on 17:39 - May 5 with 394 viewsmonmouth

Have the government failed? on 17:33 - May 5 by chad

What about it

Isn’t it the eternal faux defence for hypocrisy?


Cambell and Morgan revolt me and always have, but that's not a reason to ignore the quesions or points they are making. Johnson was an utter cabbage to talk about 'success' in our current position and needs to be questioned strongly on it.

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Have the government failed? on 17:51 - May 5 with 383 viewslondonlisa2001

I suspect Hancock is getting a little antsy about the negative reaction to his app and is losing his temper a bit. The way he spoke to Dr Rosena Allin-Khan in the House today was a disgrace.
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Have the government failed? on 18:32 - May 5 with 357 viewsperplex

Have the government failed? on 17:51 - May 5 by londonlisa2001

I suspect Hancock is getting a little antsy about the negative reaction to his app and is losing his temper a bit. The way he spoke to Dr Rosena Allin-Khan in the House today was a disgrace.


The Tw-t needs to keep a low profile seeing the mess him and his cronies have helped to put the country in.
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Have the government failed? on 18:34 - May 5 with 352 viewsNortbankboy

Have the government failed? on 18:32 - May 5 by perplex

The Tw-t needs to keep a low profile seeing the mess him and his cronies have helped to put the country in.


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Have the government failed? on 18:34 - May 5 with 352 viewsperplex

Have the government failed? on 13:41 - May 5 by Catullus

Campbell, because he never span anything?


Of course he did, however no where near on the scale of what this lot have done.
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Have the government failed? on 18:43 - May 5 with 341 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 18:34 - May 5 by perplex

Of course he did, however no where near on the scale of what this lot have done.


What? The Iraq war left millions dead, disfigured, injured or displaced! How can this possibly be worse?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 18:45 - May 5 with 341 viewsHumpty

Have the government failed? on 16:13 - May 4 by londonlisa2001

I read a thing on twitter relatively recently that Japan only tells prisoners on death row that their execution is happening an hour or so before it’s done. It was in a report about a Chinese person they executed late last year.


Japanese courts have a conviction rate of 99%.

They're either very very effective or something else may be going on.
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Have the government failed? on 19:01 - May 5 with 325 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 17:39 - May 5 by monmouth

Cambell and Morgan revolt me and always have, but that's not a reason to ignore the quesions or points they are making. Johnson was an utter cabbage to talk about 'success' in our current position and needs to be questioned strongly on it.


Nor need to ignore their abject hypocrisy, on the grand scale, or lack of objectivity.
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Have the government failed? on 19:05 - May 5 with 316 viewsexiledclaseboy

So given that we now have the largest official death toll in Europe despite having more notice this was coming and thus more time to mitigate than many (or at least some) other countries, the answer to the question posed in the title of this thread can only be “yes”.

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Have the government failed? on 19:05 - May 5 with 316 viewsbuilthjack

More deaths than Italy now. Fcking shocking what this government is doing.
They are talking about easing lockdown. Just make a statement now that lockdown stays for another month.
[Post edited 5 May 19:07]

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Have the government failed? on 19:38 - May 5 with 283 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 19:05 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy

So given that we now have the largest official death toll in Europe despite having more notice this was coming and thus more time to mitigate than many (or at least some) other countries, the answer to the question posed in the title of this thread can only be “yes”.


We don’t know.

We don’t know whether we have the largest death toll. We don’t know whether we had more time. We don’t know what we’ll have in the way of subsequent waves.

We do know that testing is a shambles, albeit, it’s worse in Wales than in England, which isn’t the fault of the British government, we do know that PPE has been lacking (although we don’t know whether it’s been more or less lacking than elsewhere), we do know that care homes have been a disaster area (again, they appear to have been the same elsewhere).

Until you look at size and density of population, it’s really hard to compare surely? We have far higher population density than most other European countries.
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Have the government failed? on 19:48 - May 5 with 273 viewsexiledclaseboy

Have the government failed? on 19:38 - May 5 by londonlisa2001

We don’t know.

We don’t know whether we have the largest death toll. We don’t know whether we had more time. We don’t know what we’ll have in the way of subsequent waves.

We do know that testing is a shambles, albeit, it’s worse in Wales than in England, which isn’t the fault of the British government, we do know that PPE has been lacking (although we don’t know whether it’s been more or less lacking than elsewhere), we do know that care homes have been a disaster area (again, they appear to have been the same elsewhere).

Until you look at size and density of population, it’s really hard to compare surely? We have far higher population density than most other European countries.


I used the word official for a reason. You’re right that we don’t know what our actual death toll or any other country’s is. And maybe/probably never will.

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not interested in who the government is in this context and I’m not arguing that Wales has been “worse” at some aspects. It’s not political and this isn't a party issue, for me anyway. We’ve no idea whether a different government with different personnel may have handled it better or worse. But given that any government’s first duty is to protect its citizens the handling of this can only be classed as a failure already. Some of that can and will only become clearer with the benefit of full hindsight and probably a public enquiry of course. Other governments’ similar failings don’t mitigate those of our own.

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Have the government failed? on 20:02 - May 5 with 256 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 19:48 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy

I used the word official for a reason. You’re right that we don’t know what our actual death toll or any other country’s is. And maybe/probably never will.

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not interested in who the government is in this context and I’m not arguing that Wales has been “worse” at some aspects. It’s not political and this isn't a party issue, for me anyway. We’ve no idea whether a different government with different personnel may have handled it better or worse. But given that any government’s first duty is to protect its citizens the handling of this can only be classed as a failure already. Some of that can and will only become clearer with the benefit of full hindsight and probably a public enquiry of course. Other governments’ similar failings don’t mitigate those of our own.


As I’ve been saying for a while, the only way we’ll know anything is excess death rates, and we don’t have those at present across the board for countries other than our own.

The government’s job is absolutely to protect people, but if, as I suspect is the case, we had the virus here before anyone knew (outside China) it may be asking the impossible.

In some ways all they could do was make sure the NHS didn’t collapse. And it didn’t. There’s been capacity throughout. Whether they could have done better I don’t know. And I think a detailed independent inquiry is essential. But when I look at New York, compared to London, I don’t think failure is the right description. And I think Cuomo seems to be doing everything he can. I just think this was out there in the big global cities before anyone knew. In huge numbers.

In some ways, the antibody testing will show whether that’s correct or bollox. If it’s correct, then I would expect to see a significant difference between the percentage of the London population that have had it with the percentage of the Welsh population that have had it. If there isn’t a difference, then it’s bollox.
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Have the government failed? on 20:02 - May 5 with 255 viewsjack2jack

Have the government failed? on 19:38 - May 5 by londonlisa2001

We don’t know.

We don’t know whether we have the largest death toll. We don’t know whether we had more time. We don’t know what we’ll have in the way of subsequent waves.

We do know that testing is a shambles, albeit, it’s worse in Wales than in England, which isn’t the fault of the British government, we do know that PPE has been lacking (although we don’t know whether it’s been more or less lacking than elsewhere), we do know that care homes have been a disaster area (again, they appear to have been the same elsewhere).

Until you look at size and density of population, it’s really hard to compare surely? We have far higher population density than most other European countries.


And yet we failed to check our borders, knowing full well this was on the way.
People flooded in unchecked and are still doing so.See my link above
PPE has been a shambles as you rightly point out.
We are a few weeks behind other countries and yet our death toll rises.
Testing has been a mess.
I'm fed up of all the nonsense being spouted, it's a bloody mess.
Name me one thing the government has done well thought all this, apart from getting the Nightingale hospitals up and running in quick time, that's about it.
It's all about being prepared, all the warning signs were ignored, it was laughed off.
Negligence doesn't cover it by half.
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