Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 25475 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

2
Have the government failed? on 11:30 - Apr 28 with 897 viewsjack2jack

Have the government failed? on 11:24 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston

The WHO declared it a Pandemic on Mar 12th. New Zealand closed borders on Mar 19th. We should have closed ours in February?


Very good mate. Very clever over there.
So, we follow not lead, fvck in hell.
Like i said mate, im out
Have a good day.
0
Have the government failed? on 11:34 - Apr 28 with 883 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 11:24 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston

The WHO declared it a Pandemic on Mar 12th. New Zealand closed borders on Mar 19th. We should have closed ours in February?


When did we decide to close ours?

JENKINS OUT

0
Have the government failed? on 11:49 - Apr 28 with 850 viewsScotia

Have the government failed? on 10:05 - Apr 28 by jack2jack

Why does there seem to be confusion between lock down and what should have happened, which would have been to close our borders earlier, much earlier, id say in February, this would have had a completely different effect.
Lets be honest countries like New Zealand have been right on the money, their Prime Minister has been nothing short of magnificent.
Forget all this, ah yes but they are a different size, with a small population bollox. if you use that as a model it will work for all countries that are floating in the middle of the sea, FFS, its not rocket science, why do folk have to complicate matters.
We close our borders, let folk back in, test, send home as soon as they land to self isolate, monitor, and deal with cases as and when, also a track and trace policy should have been implimented immediately, it would not have been difficult knowing who had just come into the country, furthermore public information announcements should have been broadcast to let everyone know, what was occuring, so that action could have been taken if feeling unwell. The list is endless of measures that could have been taken
The truth of the matter is the Government sat on their hands, whilst they knew a pandemic was about to strike, my goodness we talked about this in the office around christmas time, so don't tell me the Government weren't forwarned, they've got scientists and people with ologies advising them.
i'll also say that if we acted earlier, lives would have been saved, and more likely as not the countries economy would not have gone down the shitter.
These are only my opinions and based on what i've seen and read about all this, its not a cut and past exercise, just trying to piece together what i would consider a reasoanable plan of action.
Put it this way you don't generally insure your car, after you've have an accident, do you!


I really don't think we can compare ourselves at all to New Zealand. They have done well but they have the population of Scotland on two islands the size of the UK. Their nearest neighbour is a four hour flight away, they were a twelve hour flight away from the nearest epicentre. They also have an advanced health care system.
In the UK we are within driving distance of the worst affected country in the world and thousands of brits were there on holiday at the time it started taking hold. They had to come home and would have brought it with them.
Close our borders once we start moving out of lock down definitely, but in February it would have been very difficult and may not have made much difference.

That's not to say our government has done well and NZ's haven't, but it has been much easier for them.
0
Have the government failed? on 11:50 - Apr 28 with 849 viewsDr_Winston

Have the government failed? on 11:34 - Apr 28 by RiscaJack

When did we decide to close ours?


We haven't, which is one of the things we've done badly wrong. I believe I mentioned the lack of quarantine earlier in the thread.

Point is it's easy enough to declare that we should have closed the doors in February with 20/20 hindsight. The Germans also didn't do it until 19th March.

The Tangerine Tw*t started banning movement to the US from certain parts of the World in January (also from parts of Europe prior to Mar 12th). Should we be declaring him a visionary?

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

2
Have the government failed? on 11:51 - Apr 28 with 844 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 10:52 - Apr 28 by Professor

Very hard to judge US figures as no single body will record them. They are also very early into their outbreak, so may well prove much higher. We will see.

However, the UK levels based on the ONS data would put us above France (who are already recording all deaths) yand pretty much level with Spain and Italy. Not that unexpected really


‘Not that unexpected really’ tend to agree

But just above you say ‘Shows how poorly we have done I am afraid’

So which is it?

As HJ (most amusingly) points out (even when all accurate) the stats depend on counting like with like and show Trump doing better than Europe. It is extremely naive to take bald numbers without the massive confounding factors.

Remember the old, most people die in bed so bed is the most dangerous place to be?

NZ have done a great job but there is no like for like comparison. There are so many affecting metrics to be taken into account.

Things seem to be going pretty well in Germany, but for those saying we went into lockdown too late, have they picked up we went into lockdown at the same time as Germany and much the same time into its development in our country in fact possibly sooner.

Lessons learned are necessary on a global scale because we may not be so lucky next time.

And for those talking about this in Dec, people were talking about its forerunners too but did we close the country down then. No they did not even reach this country.

In fact it was only later in Dec, I think, that the doctors in Wuhan were trying to warn each other having just realised themselves that there seemed to be a new infectious disease, they were locked up and forced to recant. In fact in mid Jan WHO were tweeting China’s report saying there was no evidence of human to human transmission
0
Have the government failed? on 12:27 - Apr 28 with 797 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 09:40 - Apr 28 by gadgetuk

Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't get this statement where they say going into lockdown earlier would have ended up with people ignoring it after x amount of time. Had we gone into lockdown earlier, there would have been less people carrying the virus and it could have been contained better. I would have thought that going into lockdown earlier would have meant we could have left lockdown much more quickly.


I think the point is that it was widespread here without anyone knowing far earlier than anyone thought.

So an earlier lockdown would have prevented spread for the same amount of time, but when released (or releasing of its own accord which is what’s happening now) the infection in the community would have been far higher two weeks ago than it is at the moment, leading to a more devastating second wave.

You can see it happening elsewhere unfortunately at the moment.
1
Have the government failed? on 12:32 - Apr 28 with 790 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 11:51 - Apr 28 by chad

‘Not that unexpected really’ tend to agree

But just above you say ‘Shows how poorly we have done I am afraid’

So which is it?

As HJ (most amusingly) points out (even when all accurate) the stats depend on counting like with like and show Trump doing better than Europe. It is extremely naive to take bald numbers without the massive confounding factors.

Remember the old, most people die in bed so bed is the most dangerous place to be?

NZ have done a great job but there is no like for like comparison. There are so many affecting metrics to be taken into account.

Things seem to be going pretty well in Germany, but for those saying we went into lockdown too late, have they picked up we went into lockdown at the same time as Germany and much the same time into its development in our country in fact possibly sooner.

Lessons learned are necessary on a global scale because we may not be so lucky next time.

And for those talking about this in Dec, people were talking about its forerunners too but did we close the country down then. No they did not even reach this country.

In fact it was only later in Dec, I think, that the doctors in Wuhan were trying to warn each other having just realised themselves that there seemed to be a new infectious disease, they were locked up and forced to recant. In fact in mid Jan WHO were tweeting China’s report saying there was no evidence of human to human transmission


The WHO have been one of the biggest problems in this entire horrific episode.

The data coming from all over the world suggests that the global hub cities, New York, London etc have had this widespread for months. New York anti body testing shows 25% of their entire population have had this ffs. We have to wait for ours, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see high figures for London. I’d be surprised if it was New York type levels, but over 10% wouldn’t surprise me at all. In contrast, I’d be amazed if NZ have had very much at all. It’s due to connectivity.
3
Have the government failed? on 12:39 - Apr 28 with 769 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 09:56 - Apr 28 by Highjack

Yes that manipulation of stats probably convince the #FBPE morons on social media easily enough but anyone with more than fourteen brain cells can see the reasons behind why certain areas and countries have a considerably higher death per million rate than others and it’s little to do with lockdowns or PPE or testing.


I'm not sure about that because I think I might only have about 9 brain cells left!

PS, jack2jack, I don't think it mattered when we went into lockdown, bearing in mind many of us might agree we shuld have gone further as you suggested, I think the economy was always going to be trashed by this.

I'm not sure we could ever have claimed to succeed here, or to have failed. All we could reasonably have expected was a better outcome, fewer deaths. It's not like fighting WW2, we can't say we have won or lost. This virus (and lord only knows how many others) will be around for a long while. it's an ongoing battle.
There are other diseases we thought we'd beaten,

https://theweek.com/articles/549466/deadly-diseases-are-making-comeback

so we'll always have to be vigilant. In my opinion anyway.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

1
Login to get fewer ads

Have the government failed? on 12:44 - Apr 28 with 758 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 12:32 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001

The WHO have been one of the biggest problems in this entire horrific episode.

The data coming from all over the world suggests that the global hub cities, New York, London etc have had this widespread for months. New York anti body testing shows 25% of their entire population have had this ffs. We have to wait for ours, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see high figures for London. I’d be surprised if it was New York type levels, but over 10% wouldn’t surprise me at all. In contrast, I’d be amazed if NZ have had very much at all. It’s due to connectivity.


I think it would be prudent at this point to cut all ties with the WHO and put Janice Greve in charge.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

0
Have the government failed? on 12:47 - Apr 28 with 752 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 12:44 - Apr 28 by Highjack

I think it would be prudent at this point to cut all ties with the WHO and put Janice Greve in charge.


Janice for PM, you know it makes sense!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Have the government failed? on 12:47 - Apr 28 with 751 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 12:44 - Apr 28 by Highjack

I think it would be prudent at this point to cut all ties with the WHO and put Janice Greve in charge.


She probably couldn’t do worse to be honest.
0
Have the government failed? on 12:57 - Apr 28 with 737 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 12:47 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001

She probably couldn’t do worse to be honest.


The same people on here who always want to attack out governments shortcomings always overlook the mistakes the W.H.O. have made.

It's almost as if they are bigoted in some way!!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Have the government failed? on 13:01 - Apr 28 with 730 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 12:57 - Apr 28 by Catullus

The same people on here who always want to attack out governments shortcomings always overlook the mistakes the W.H.O. have made.

It's almost as if they are bigoted in some way!!


Not me.

They have also been a disgrace. Trump is a tw*t of the highest order but completely agree with his stance on stopping all funding to WHO. Why should the American tax payer be the biggest contributor to an organisation which is quite clearly deep inside Chinese pockets. To refuse to use the word "Taiwan" in their briefings is beyond belief.

JENKINS OUT

2
Have the government failed? on 13:10 - Apr 28 with 721 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Have the government failed? on 12:44 - Apr 28 by Highjack

I think it would be prudent at this point to cut all ties with the WHO and put Janice Greve in charge.


Good idea.

Does anyone believe that India has had 939 deaths so far? 301 in Pakistan? 155 in Bangladesh? 4 in Zimbabwe? There were recent reports from Ecuador that in one region alone there were six thousand deaths, the authorities couldn’t cope and bodies were taking a week to collect. Their official death toll is 663 for the entire country.

Japan’s heath service was reportedly on the verge of collapse last week. Their official death toll has been stuck on 385 for a month.

1,500 deaths in the entire continent of Africa?

Could it be that there’s something in the theory that the virus doesn’t like hot weather? Hopefully that’s the case.

With the stats as they are and with the difficulty of comparison between different population densities, different government policies and different places on the curve we should take them all with a large pinch of salt.

Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
Poll: How many points clear of relegation will we be on Saturday night?

2

Have the government failed? on 13:13 - Apr 28 with 715 viewsHighjack

Good old Janice Greve.


The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

0
Have the government failed? on 13:18 - Apr 28 with 709 viewsjack2jack

Have the government failed? on 12:39 - Apr 28 by Catullus

I'm not sure about that because I think I might only have about 9 brain cells left!

PS, jack2jack, I don't think it mattered when we went into lockdown, bearing in mind many of us might agree we shuld have gone further as you suggested, I think the economy was always going to be trashed by this.

I'm not sure we could ever have claimed to succeed here, or to have failed. All we could reasonably have expected was a better outcome, fewer deaths. It's not like fighting WW2, we can't say we have won or lost. This virus (and lord only knows how many others) will be around for a long while. it's an ongoing battle.
There are other diseases we thought we'd beaten,

https://theweek.com/articles/549466/deadly-diseases-are-making-comeback

so we'll always have to be vigilant. In my opinion anyway.


I think it would have made a huge difference to where we are now Cat.
You close the borders earlier, put stringent procedures in place to test and isolate folk coming in.
we should have gone it alone, fvck WHO, Fvck trump, fvck europe. it should have been all about our country, simplistic maybe.
Im not a scientist, i've read and digested quite a lot of the goings on, and for the life of me, cant understand, why we didnt close our borders. i cant repeat it any more, it was a no brainer, but no folk want to go on about statistic, demographics, comparing like for like, populations; is fvcking irrelevant if we'd have closed our borders.why the hell don't folk get it.
10% of all deaths in the world have occured in this country. 20 000 human beings, all with loved ones families, kids.its a disgrace.
Oh and i dont give a fvck who is in government, im not that politically minded, i would have rounded on whomever was in power at this time.
Not a rant at you my friend, just finding this whole argument very frustrating, so like i said earlier, i'm out on this particular topic.
Take care.ATB
3
Have the government failed? on 13:24 - Apr 28 with 698 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 13:18 - Apr 28 by jack2jack

I think it would have made a huge difference to where we are now Cat.
You close the borders earlier, put stringent procedures in place to test and isolate folk coming in.
we should have gone it alone, fvck WHO, Fvck trump, fvck europe. it should have been all about our country, simplistic maybe.
Im not a scientist, i've read and digested quite a lot of the goings on, and for the life of me, cant understand, why we didnt close our borders. i cant repeat it any more, it was a no brainer, but no folk want to go on about statistic, demographics, comparing like for like, populations; is fvcking irrelevant if we'd have closed our borders.why the hell don't folk get it.
10% of all deaths in the world have occured in this country. 20 000 human beings, all with loved ones families, kids.its a disgrace.
Oh and i dont give a fvck who is in government, im not that politically minded, i would have rounded on whomever was in power at this time.
Not a rant at you my friend, just finding this whole argument very frustrating, so like i said earlier, i'm out on this particular topic.
Take care.ATB


10% of recorded deaths yes but I'm fairly sure some other countries are not giving honest figues, China to start with.

The kind of lockdown you suggest would hve had an even bigger impact on our economy, Phillip Hammond would never have agreed to it!
It would have saved lives though so I'm with you there.

PS, I didn't think you were having a go at me, just posting an honest, heartfelt opinion.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

2
Have the government failed? on 13:30 - Apr 28 with 680 viewsSwanjaxs

Have the government failed? on 13:18 - Apr 28 by jack2jack

I think it would have made a huge difference to where we are now Cat.
You close the borders earlier, put stringent procedures in place to test and isolate folk coming in.
we should have gone it alone, fvck WHO, Fvck trump, fvck europe. it should have been all about our country, simplistic maybe.
Im not a scientist, i've read and digested quite a lot of the goings on, and for the life of me, cant understand, why we didnt close our borders. i cant repeat it any more, it was a no brainer, but no folk want to go on about statistic, demographics, comparing like for like, populations; is fvcking irrelevant if we'd have closed our borders.why the hell don't folk get it.
10% of all deaths in the world have occured in this country. 20 000 human beings, all with loved ones families, kids.its a disgrace.
Oh and i dont give a fvck who is in government, im not that politically minded, i would have rounded on whomever was in power at this time.
Not a rant at you my friend, just finding this whole argument very frustrating, so like i said earlier, i'm out on this particular topic.
Take care.ATB


Point well made mate!

Get yourself back in as well, you have an opinion and you shouldn't feel that you have to hold back! 👍

You might think I've forgotten, but one day, when you least expect it, my time will come.
Poll: Should we take an unprecedented truce between Planet Swans and CCMB?

2
Have the government failed? on 13:34 - Apr 28 with 672 viewsjack2jack

Have the government failed? on 13:24 - Apr 28 by Catullus

10% of recorded deaths yes but I'm fairly sure some other countries are not giving honest figues, China to start with.

The kind of lockdown you suggest would hve had an even bigger impact on our economy, Phillip Hammond would never have agreed to it!
It would have saved lives though so I'm with you there.

PS, I didn't think you were having a go at me, just posting an honest, heartfelt opinion.


Thank you for the reply.
The figures are being lied about all over the world, China and the UK are particularly bad at this in my opinion.
As for the economy, who knows what it would have been like if we had closed earlier, however, i think its going to be a lot worse this way, again i'm not an economist, just an opinion.
0
Have the government failed? on 13:36 - Apr 28 with 669 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 13:24 - Apr 28 by Catullus

10% of recorded deaths yes but I'm fairly sure some other countries are not giving honest figues, China to start with.

The kind of lockdown you suggest would hve had an even bigger impact on our economy, Phillip Hammond would never have agreed to it!
It would have saved lives though so I'm with you there.

PS, I didn't think you were having a go at me, just posting an honest, heartfelt opinion.


It’s easy to say with hindsight that we should have locked down earlier, but apart from Janice Greve we were all in the dark at the time with conflicting information from what was a very fast moving event.

One idiotic thing they did though was to say on a Friday afternoon that the pubs would close at midnight, prompting everyone to go out for one last massive piss up. They should have closed them with immediate effect.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

0
Have the government failed? on 13:42 - Apr 28 with 652 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 13:36 - Apr 28 by Highjack

It’s easy to say with hindsight that we should have locked down earlier, but apart from Janice Greve we were all in the dark at the time with conflicting information from what was a very fast moving event.

One idiotic thing they did though was to say on a Friday afternoon that the pubs would close at midnight, prompting everyone to go out for one last massive piss up. They should have closed them with immediate effect.


A lot of people were saying we should have locked down sooner, it's not all hindsight. We were slow reacting, I think most would agree.

I agree about the pubs, they should have announced it at lunchtime and said all pubs shut by 3pm, large fines to any not closing.

The government had more information than us, they knew things we still don't know but beaurocracy never moves quickly!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Have the government failed? on 13:45 - Apr 28 with 648 viewsProfessor

Have the government failed? on 13:10 - Apr 28 by Joe_bradshaw

Good idea.

Does anyone believe that India has had 939 deaths so far? 301 in Pakistan? 155 in Bangladesh? 4 in Zimbabwe? There were recent reports from Ecuador that in one region alone there were six thousand deaths, the authorities couldn’t cope and bodies were taking a week to collect. Their official death toll is 663 for the entire country.

Japan’s heath service was reportedly on the verge of collapse last week. Their official death toll has been stuck on 385 for a month.

1,500 deaths in the entire continent of Africa?

Could it be that there’s something in the theory that the virus doesn’t like hot weather? Hopefully that’s the case.

With the stats as they are and with the difficulty of comparison between different population densities, different government policies and different places on the curve we should take them all with a large pinch of salt.


Few countries have reliable public health systems capable of recording cases properly. Beyond Western Europe, Australasia and developed Asian countries (Japan, S.Korea etc) all the data is at best dodgy. Even the US
0
Have the government failed? on 13:49 - Apr 28 with 638 viewsProfessor

Have the government failed? on 12:32 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001

The WHO have been one of the biggest problems in this entire horrific episode.

The data coming from all over the world suggests that the global hub cities, New York, London etc have had this widespread for months. New York anti body testing shows 25% of their entire population have had this ffs. We have to wait for ours, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see high figures for London. I’d be surprised if it was New York type levels, but over 10% wouldn’t surprise me at all. In contrast, I’d be amazed if NZ have had very much at all. It’s due to connectivity.


The antibody tests are still poor. The ones the UK sourced lack sensitivity and many used in the US specificity. We need to be careful we are not picking up coronavirus infections associated with colds too.


Hopefully there will be some leverage to change WHO, which does some good work, but never wants to turnover the apple cart either-even when needed
0
Have the government failed? on 13:51 - Apr 28 with 635 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 13:49 - Apr 28 by Professor

The antibody tests are still poor. The ones the UK sourced lack sensitivity and many used in the US specificity. We need to be careful we are not picking up coronavirus infections associated with colds too.


Hopefully there will be some leverage to change WHO, which does some good work, but never wants to turnover the apple cart either-even when needed


Isn’t it also correct that even if you are immune to a virus you can still harbour it and transfer it to others, which would make antibody tests and proposed antibody passports useless?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

0
Have the government failed? on 14:10 - Apr 28 with 602 viewsProfessor

Have the government failed? on 13:51 - Apr 28 by Highjack

Isn’t it also correct that even if you are immune to a virus you can still harbour it and transfer it to others, which would make antibody tests and proposed antibody passports useless?


There is a difference between immune and immune response. ~There are examples where there is a strong immune response (especially antibody) but not immune protection. HIV is the classic example. One of the bugs I work on (Campylobacter) produce strong antibody responses but does not stop the bug persisting.

The second issue is that vaccines can either prevent disease or prevent infection. In the former the infection can still be carried, transmit and become more virulent,

So yes, there are of limited value
1
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2020