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Have the government failed? 08:00 - Apr 27 with 27675 viewsRiscaJack

Can the more educated posters on this forum give me some opinions on this?

For me it looks like a complete disgrace from the start, no leadership, promises not kept, flights still coming into country from badly hit parts of world, using the excuse of "scientific advice" for not postponing the likes of Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool v Madrid, music gigs. We watched what was happening in Italy, I just can't find any excuses for them.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 17:20 - Apr 28 with 843 viewslondonlisa2001

Have the government failed? on 17:14 - Apr 28 by Professor

....or indeed certain ethnicities in your own country


Yep.

I come at this from a complete aversion to testing of anything on animals btw. I will not touch products tested on animals if at all possible. But in this case, I can see value in testing the vaccine on the Rhesus Macaque given, if I understand the reports correctly, it shares over 93% of our DNA and CAN act as an indicator of efficacy. When so many people are dying all over the world it falls into ‘upsetting but necessary’ for me.
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Have the government failed? on 19:25 - Apr 28 with 761 viewsProfessor

Have the government failed? on 17:20 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001

Yep.

I come at this from a complete aversion to testing of anything on animals btw. I will not touch products tested on animals if at all possible. But in this case, I can see value in testing the vaccine on the Rhesus Macaque given, if I understand the reports correctly, it shares over 93% of our DNA and CAN act as an indicator of efficacy. When so many people are dying all over the world it falls into ‘upsetting but necessary’ for me.


That’s why mice are largely used. About equal numbers bred with genetic modification or used in experiments as covered by Animals (Scientific Procedures)
Act 1986. About 1.5 million of each. Fewer than 2,500
Primates are
Used in the U.K.-most in behavioural and neuroscience studies.

Cosmetic testing is banned in the U.K. There is some statutory toxicity testing, but more than 90%
Is biomedical or veterinary use.
I don’t know anyone who likes animal use
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Have the government failed? on 20:46 - Apr 28 with 704 viewsRiscaJack

Andrew Neil just tweeted the following:

This official chart can give the government no comfort. Most international comparisons show us tracking France. But France includes care homes etc. Our daily Covid stats don’t. Include them (all settings in chart) and we’re even tracking above Italy.

Second behind the United States, the Panorama filmed aired yesterday, simply pathetic response. Full scale resignations needed when this is over.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 20:53 - Apr 28 with 687 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 15:22 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn

I think the stick that the WHO is getting on here is a bit misguided. Yes, there are a number of legitimate grievances about it's leadership during this crisis but it's easy to forget the excellent work done on the ground over the decades, which has probably saved us from pandemics worse than the current one. Also, to understand the WHO's failings you need to understand the context. This excellent article in the Guardian provides that context:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-cor

This paragraph sums things up pretty well:

"For all the responsibility vested in the WHO, it has little power. Unlike international bodies such as the World Trade Organization, the WHO, which is a specialised body of the UN, has no ability to bind or sanction its members. Its annual operating budget, about $2bn in 2019, is smaller than that of many university hospitals, and split among a dizzying array of public health and research projects. The WHO is less like a military general or elected leader with a strong mandate, and more like an underpaid sports coach wary of “losing the dressing room”, who can only get their way by charming, grovelling, cajoling and occasionally pleading with the players to do as they say."

Anyone who's watched the superb Pandemic docmentary series on Netflix (effectively a Trailer for the current pandemic) will have a grasp on the excellent work done by the WHO on the ground. The stupidest thing possible is to decrease its funding (which is why Trump has done just that). It needs to be given more resources and the political instruments to wield power effectively. Not that that will happen - which is why I think there's every chance that worse pandemics will happen sooner rather than later.


Why is the underpaid sports coach Dr Tedros trying not to lose the changing room by cuddling up to China? The US, invest far more than anyone else.

The US tax payer should not have to fund this organisation after the catastrophic failures by them during this crisis. Like I said in an earlier post, to refuse to acknowledge Taiwan (who have dealt with Covid better than most), to refuse to even use their countries name is a disgrace and as corrupt as it gets. I would fully support a decision to cease all funding from the UK while WHO is headed up by its existing leadership.
[Post edited 28 Apr 20:54]

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 21:06 - Apr 28 with 663 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 16:46 - Apr 28 by Kilkennyjack

At least old Janice might know the PM of New Zealand is a fecking woman.

Unlucky chump.


Does she know why the deaths per millions of Powys is so low compared to London yet?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 21:13 - Apr 28 with 652 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 20:53 - Apr 28 by RiscaJack

Why is the underpaid sports coach Dr Tedros trying not to lose the changing room by cuddling up to China? The US, invest far more than anyone else.

The US tax payer should not have to fund this organisation after the catastrophic failures by them during this crisis. Like I said in an earlier post, to refuse to acknowledge Taiwan (who have dealt with Covid better than most), to refuse to even use their countries name is a disgrace and as corrupt as it gets. I would fully support a decision to cease all funding from the UK while WHO is headed up by its existing leadership.
[Post edited 28 Apr 20:54]


Maybe the change needs to be in the other direction, draw up new treaties giving the W.H.O real powers and a far bigger budget.

Turn them from a toothless attack dog into a sabre toothed tiger!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 21:24 - Apr 28 with 641 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 21:13 - Apr 28 by Catullus

Maybe the change needs to be in the other direction, draw up new treaties giving the W.H.O real powers and a far bigger budget.

Turn them from a toothless attack dog into a sabre toothed tiger!


But not under the UN or the current management.
What powers would you give this uncontrolled group?
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Have the government failed? on 21:28 - Apr 28 with 628 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 21:24 - Apr 28 by A_Fans_Dad

But not under the UN or the current management.
What powers would you give this uncontrolled group?


There'd have to be controls, protocols. No group should be given far ranging powers with no oversight.
As for the powers themselves, I guess we should ask what they want first and start talking from there.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 21:30 - Apr 28 with 622 viewsBytholWyn

Have the government failed? on 20:53 - Apr 28 by RiscaJack

Why is the underpaid sports coach Dr Tedros trying not to lose the changing room by cuddling up to China? The US, invest far more than anyone else.

The US tax payer should not have to fund this organisation after the catastrophic failures by them during this crisis. Like I said in an earlier post, to refuse to acknowledge Taiwan (who have dealt with Covid better than most), to refuse to even use their countries name is a disgrace and as corrupt as it gets. I would fully support a decision to cease all funding from the UK while WHO is headed up by its existing leadership.
[Post edited 28 Apr 20:54]


The article explains why Dr Tedros has taken the approach he has - to extract some sort of willingness from China to allow access to the WHO - which has succeeded up to a point, albeit at the expense of the organisation's reputation. A misguided approach, but the fundamental failing here is in China's secrecy, and in countries around the world for under-funding the WHO and not giving it the authority it needs to deal with pandemics.

One thing is for sure de-funding the WHO would be idiocy of the first order. Who else is going to the hard yards to detect viruses at an early stage? If it wasn't for the WHO Sars would have turned out far worse than it did. We need global institutions to deal with global challenges. Their failures and limitations are a mirror to all of us - and it's not a flattering reflection.
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Have the government failed? on 21:54 - Apr 28 with 592 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 21:30 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn

The article explains why Dr Tedros has taken the approach he has - to extract some sort of willingness from China to allow access to the WHO - which has succeeded up to a point, albeit at the expense of the organisation's reputation. A misguided approach, but the fundamental failing here is in China's secrecy, and in countries around the world for under-funding the WHO and not giving it the authority it needs to deal with pandemics.

One thing is for sure de-funding the WHO would be idiocy of the first order. Who else is going to the hard yards to detect viruses at an early stage? If it wasn't for the WHO Sars would have turned out far worse than it did. We need global institutions to deal with global challenges. Their failures and limitations are a mirror to all of us - and it's not a flattering reflection.


Correct me if I’m wrong but they had boots on ground in Wuhan from the get go, first there was no evidence of Human to Human spread, then Dr Tedros appealed to countries not to close borders, now he is criticising countries for not listening.

Again I’ll bang same drum, for an organisation which had a slogan “reflect the principles of human rights, universality, and equity.” to point blank refuse to recognise Taiwan and to cuddle up to a country like China completely baffles me.

Not fit for purpose, I actually would go a step further, they are dangerous.
[Post edited 28 Apr 21:58]

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 22:19 - Apr 28 with 568 viewsBytholWyn

Have the government failed? on 21:54 - Apr 28 by RiscaJack

Correct me if I’m wrong but they had boots on ground in Wuhan from the get go, first there was no evidence of Human to Human spread, then Dr Tedros appealed to countries not to close borders, now he is criticising countries for not listening.

Again I’ll bang same drum, for an organisation which had a slogan “reflect the principles of human rights, universality, and equity.” to point blank refuse to recognise Taiwan and to cuddle up to a country like China completely baffles me.

Not fit for purpose, I actually would go a step further, they are dangerous.
[Post edited 28 Apr 21:58]


"Dangerous". I mean seriously?
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Have the government failed? on 22:57 - Apr 28 with 532 viewsKilkennyjack

Have the government failed? on 21:06 - Apr 28 by Highjack

Does she know why the deaths per millions of Powys is so low compared to London yet?


Maybe not, but like everybody else she must know that the much praised PM of NZ is a fecking woman.

I mean you would have to be a bit uninformed not to know that ?
😂😂😂😂

Thats a mighty high horse you just fell off Chump !!!

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

-1
Have the government failed? on 23:23 - Apr 28 with 516 viewsLuther27

Have the government failed? on 21:30 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn

The article explains why Dr Tedros has taken the approach he has - to extract some sort of willingness from China to allow access to the WHO - which has succeeded up to a point, albeit at the expense of the organisation's reputation. A misguided approach, but the fundamental failing here is in China's secrecy, and in countries around the world for under-funding the WHO and not giving it the authority it needs to deal with pandemics.

One thing is for sure de-funding the WHO would be idiocy of the first order. Who else is going to the hard yards to detect viruses at an early stage? If it wasn't for the WHO Sars would have turned out far worse than it did. We need global institutions to deal with global challenges. Their failures and limitations are a mirror to all of us - and it's not a flattering reflection.


Sorry if I'm missing earlier threads on this, but as much as I think Trump is a wassock, in this case he has a point. If the biggest contributor to WHO has lost faith in the organisation and withdraws, or refuses to fund them then that's his perogagative. If the rest of the world believes in WHO , then they have to pick up the shortfall. We shouldn't rely on a single major contributor to an organisation which, we are led to believe, is a non politicised entity who's ethos and duty is to identify, classify and protect the world from the type of disease that is currently ravaging the planet.
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Have the government failed? on 23:48 - Apr 28 with 502 viewsPozuelosSideys

So i think Trump is playing the billy big bollox card again. ie The US is the biggest contributor, therefore we should have the biggest say. You can argue that is fair enough i suppose. The UK is the second biggest overall contributor. China is miles down the list. The link below is an eyeopener. The total income streams by budget looks bizarre to me. I would have thought the WHO would have had bigger overall budgets too. Just shy of $5bn biannually.

China appear to provide $38m a year. The UK itself provides $218m a year, the US $445m. Other than Germany, not many other nations are contributing much. Significant funding also comes in from Trusts, Charities, Foundations etc.

Now i would imagine Trump is playing his usual games, but you can kinda see why he wouldnt be happy at having to pick up the bill for other nations, much like the US has to at the UN, right?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/15/834666123/trump-and-who-how
[Post edited 28 Apr 23:48]

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Have the government failed? on 07:29 - Apr 29 with 431 viewsHighjack

Have the government failed? on 22:57 - Apr 28 by Kilkennyjack

Maybe not, but like everybody else she must know that the much praised PM of NZ is a fecking woman.

I mean you would have to be a bit uninformed not to know that ?
😂😂😂😂

Thats a mighty high horse you just fell off Chump !!!


Yes the gender of the prime ministers of insignificant Pacific island nations must have passed me by, but I’ve heard the Tongan lad is doing a good job. They’ve got no cases at all, which in Janice Greve land means they’ve got lots of PPE and are testing relentlessly.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Have the government failed? on 07:57 - Apr 29 with 419 viewsfelixstowe_jack

Have the government failed? on 11:38 - Apr 27 by RiscaJack

Am i right in saying we sat back and watched all of this going on in Spain and Italy though? Instead of taking it seriously we had crowds of over 60,000 four days in a row at Cheltenham, 45,000 crowd at Anfield including 3,000 allowed in country from Madrid, these are only two of the more high profile events, there were plenty more around country.

Boris, and his senior staff should resign when this is over. They have failed the country.


Everyone who attended Anfield or Cheltenham had the option of attending or not attending. It was not compulsory to attend. Only to people to blame are the people who chose to attend.

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Have the government failed? on 10:32 - Apr 29 with 366 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 07:57 - Apr 29 by felixstowe_jack

Everyone who attended Anfield or Cheltenham had the option of attending or not attending. It was not compulsory to attend. Only to people to blame are the people who chose to attend.


Yes they had the choice but lets face it, the government are supposed to lead but when this was kicking off they sat back and watched, probably more concerned about the economy than peoples lives at first. Then they eventually realised how big the approaching disaster was!

The government, having as much info as was available and seeing what was coming should have acted decisively but they dithered, giving out suggestions not instructions and of course they didn't seem to grasp how big a problem this was going to be until it was a bit late.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 11:15 - Apr 29 with 346 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 22:19 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn

"Dangerous". I mean seriously?


Yes, deadly dangerous.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20170406.059519/full/
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Have the government failed? on 12:43 - Apr 29 with 314 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 22:19 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn

"Dangerous". I mean seriously?


Yes.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 12:45 - Apr 29 with 312 viewsRiscaJack

Have the government failed? on 23:48 - Apr 28 by PozuelosSideys

So i think Trump is playing the billy big bollox card again. ie The US is the biggest contributor, therefore we should have the biggest say. You can argue that is fair enough i suppose. The UK is the second biggest overall contributor. China is miles down the list. The link below is an eyeopener. The total income streams by budget looks bizarre to me. I would have thought the WHO would have had bigger overall budgets too. Just shy of $5bn biannually.

China appear to provide $38m a year. The UK itself provides $218m a year, the US $445m. Other than Germany, not many other nations are contributing much. Significant funding also comes in from Trusts, Charities, Foundations etc.

Now i would imagine Trump is playing his usual games, but you can kinda see why he wouldnt be happy at having to pick up the bill for other nations, much like the US has to at the UN, right?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/15/834666123/trump-and-who-how
[Post edited 28 Apr 23:48]


He's doing what is best for the American Tax Payer in terms of this particular subject.

It's corrupt and not fit for purpose. Boris, who I despise, should take the same steps.

JENKINS OUT

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Have the government failed? on 13:29 - Apr 29 with 293 viewsScotia

Have the government failed? on 07:57 - Apr 29 by felixstowe_jack

Everyone who attended Anfield or Cheltenham had the option of attending or not attending. It was not compulsory to attend. Only to people to blame are the people who chose to attend.


I'm sorry I don't agree with that at all.

I'd suggest that the majority of people at those events, and you could throw in the Stereophonics gig in Cardiff too, had very little idea of the severity of the siuation. Don't underestimate the number of people in the country who have absolutley no interest in current affairs whatsoever, that is until it directly affects them. They get their info from social media rather than the news.

The government could have set a clear position by stopping mass gatherings at that point. That would have demonstrated a bit of leadership and regognition of the seriousness of situation at least.

Of course at that point Boris hadn't even bothered to attend a Cobra meeting. I just wonder if he is about to take paterntiy leave?
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Have the government failed? on 13:29 - Apr 29 with 293 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Have the government failed? on 12:45 - Apr 29 by RiscaJack

He's doing what is best for the American Tax Payer in terms of this particular subject.

It's corrupt and not fit for purpose. Boris, who I despise, should take the same steps.


And not just the WHO, the same applies to the UN, scandals, corruption, racism and sexual transgressions and cover ups.
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Have the government failed? on 13:38 - Apr 29 with 287 viewsCatullus

Have the government failed? on 13:29 - Apr 29 by A_Fans_Dad

And not just the WHO, the same applies to the UN, scandals, corruption, racism and sexual transgressions and cover ups.


If we went all the way down that road then NATO would be finished too. The Russians would love that. China too possibly, while I'm there so would many in the EU who want an EU army, it'd be the perfect excuse, I wonder if they'd have national service?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Have the government failed? on 14:31 - Apr 29 with 257 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 13:29 - Apr 29 by Scotia

I'm sorry I don't agree with that at all.

I'd suggest that the majority of people at those events, and you could throw in the Stereophonics gig in Cardiff too, had very little idea of the severity of the siuation. Don't underestimate the number of people in the country who have absolutley no interest in current affairs whatsoever, that is until it directly affects them. They get their info from social media rather than the news.

The government could have set a clear position by stopping mass gatherings at that point. That would have demonstrated a bit of leadership and regognition of the seriousness of situation at least.

Of course at that point Boris hadn't even bothered to attend a Cobra meeting. I just wonder if he is about to take paterntiy leave?


I have to say over 2 weeks earlier (and 2 weeks is a long time in COVID-19) I was in 2 minds about attending the camping and caravan show in Birmingham. In fact given the end fell off my alternator on the M5 and after dicing with death nursing my battery to get there on the smart? Motorway, I then had to eventually be relayed home and the bridge was shut, so it was probably a bad decision all round.

Although I agree Cheltenham should have been stopped, both by the government and the organisers, same goes for the rugby cancelled when many had travelled and others had no time to cancel travel and accommodation so would have probably travelled anyway.

Again for the sake of factual correctness, Boris had indeed bothered to attend a COBRA meeting well before Cheltenham and before any deaths reported here.
[Post edited 29 Apr 14:50]
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Have the government failed? on 14:34 - Apr 29 with 255 viewschad

Have the government failed? on 13:29 - Apr 29 by A_Fans_Dad

And not just the WHO, the same applies to the UN, scandals, corruption, racism and sexual transgressions and cover ups.


If Mon has a go at you again just tell him you could not possibly know less about the Who than he does :)
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