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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly 18:04 - May 18 with 12888 viewskrunchykarrot

The time has come, second rate at best.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:51 - Jun 20 with 854 viewskrunchykarrot

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:17 - Jun 19 by BillyChong

Re: Trident/defence - sure we’d have the sense to keep our beak out of other peoples business and step away from the yanks when it comes to foreign affairs


Agree, but how to we defend ourselves?
-1
Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:39 - Jun 20 with 825 viewsKerouac

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:28 - Jun 20 by johnlangy

Could you explain please where you get those numbers from Kerouac ?


My apologies, that wasn't the correct figure (I was repeating what somebody I respect on these matters told me...they quickly took the Welsh Assembly's figure on spend, £17bn, and found the total figure for income tax from Wales, £3bn, on the HMRC site...which of course was flawed, they realised it straight away when I questioned the numbers).

The correct figures are £29bn raised and £43bn spent.
= £14bn deficit (which as it happens is the same figure I was told was our deficit, but obviously represents a different percentage as a share of the Welsh economy).

So if Wales was to leave the UK a year from today the size of the deficit between what we spend and what we raise would amount to approx. 34/35%.
Which is massive.

To put that in perspective, the UK deficit was around 11% following the financial crash...and that was a situation whereby the financial sector of the economy was obviously going to recover over a period of time.
Most of the Plaid and Labour lot behaved as if the cuts the UK had to make were akin to crimes.
Well if Plaid got it's way we'd be signing up to a deficit 3 times as large with no City of London to help us close that gap along with the inevitable cuts.
This country would be f*cked.


An interesting fact if you read through my sources is that our deficit would only be £2bn if we were as economically productive per head of the population as the UK average.
Welsh Labour have presided over this since the mid 90s.
Draw your own conclusions.


Here are my sources if you are interested;


https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1767424/Wales_Fiscal_Futur

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49127308

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-08/welsh-government-annu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll: Who is the disgrace; Rachel Riley? or Jeremy Corbyn?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:46 - Jun 20 with 798 viewsEbo

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:51 - Jun 20 by krunchykarrot

Agree, but how to we defend ourselves?


Defend ourselves from what exactly? Do you really think a nuclear war is winnable?

Every nation knows they cannot win a Nuclear War, hence why cyber-warfare is rife. The nuclear arsenals are just cock waving exercises.

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
Poll: What couldn't you live without?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:47 - Jun 20 with 793 viewsEbo

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:39 - Jun 20 by Kerouac

My apologies, that wasn't the correct figure (I was repeating what somebody I respect on these matters told me...they quickly took the Welsh Assembly's figure on spend, £17bn, and found the total figure for income tax from Wales, £3bn, on the HMRC site...which of course was flawed, they realised it straight away when I questioned the numbers).

The correct figures are £29bn raised and £43bn spent.
= £14bn deficit (which as it happens is the same figure I was told was our deficit, but obviously represents a different percentage as a share of the Welsh economy).

So if Wales was to leave the UK a year from today the size of the deficit between what we spend and what we raise would amount to approx. 34/35%.
Which is massive.

To put that in perspective, the UK deficit was around 11% following the financial crash...and that was a situation whereby the financial sector of the economy was obviously going to recover over a period of time.
Most of the Plaid and Labour lot behaved as if the cuts the UK had to make were akin to crimes.
Well if Plaid got it's way we'd be signing up to a deficit 3 times as large with no City of London to help us close that gap along with the inevitable cuts.
This country would be f*cked.


An interesting fact if you read through my sources is that our deficit would only be £2bn if we were as economically productive per head of the population as the UK average.
Welsh Labour have presided over this since the mid 90s.
Draw your own conclusions.


Here are my sources if you are interested;


https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1767424/Wales_Fiscal_Futur

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49127308

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-08/welsh-government-annu


I don't think you have actually read those documents at all. They all factor Wales as part of the UK encompassing a shared deficit.

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
Poll: What couldn't you live without?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:54 - Jun 20 with 790 viewsEbo

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:49 - Jun 19 by Catullus

Ah yes Wales, a socialist utopia with a hard border between us and our biggest trading partner. A country that the indy nats/republicans hope will join the EU but can't accept that most of us voted to leave and rejoining could take a very long time.

Indy support has risen sharply but there is still more support for abolishing devolution.

I'll give you some things, we wouldn't have to pay for some stuff but instead we'd need to find vastly more money to build the infrastructre we need to have a chance at success.

True we wouldn't need an armed forces, or Trident (but I'm for scrapping that anyway) and we wouldn't be paying for Royalty and no more House of Lords to moan about either but I wonder what our new independent National Government would want to put into place, what extra political machinery they'd plan on, maybe just go ahead with the current idea of increasing the AM's?
Maybe we are in the frying pan but it's still safer than the fire.


The fallout of Brexit will change that mindset massively, especially in our agricultural communities.

YesCymru is a cross-party movement, not a Plaid one. The polling carried out this month stated that 10% of welsh conservative voters support an indy Wales which shocked me. Naturally, the largest proportion came from Plaid, then Labour then Libs.

We are looking at a decade before we are finally ready to put it to a vote, right now it would not work.

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
Poll: What couldn't you live without?

0
Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:04 - Jun 20 with 784 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:46 - Jun 20 by Ebo

Defend ourselves from what exactly? Do you really think a nuclear war is winnable?

Every nation knows they cannot win a Nuclear War, hence why cyber-warfare is rife. The nuclear arsenals are just cock waving exercises.


Exactly.

New Zealand, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland and Denmark all seem to manage not to be invaded just fine.

Nuclear weapons totally useless against modern foes like Islamic State.
Might be better spend on the conventional forces, NHS and Education, just a thought !! 😂

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 16:33 - Jun 20 with 741 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:07 - Jun 19 by pencoedjack

Wind & water

Don’t bother wasting time on them mate.


You were correct.



Water is the new oil.

I apologise for underrating you. Cymru am byth.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:25 - Jun 20 with 730 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 16:33 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

You were correct.



Water is the new oil.

I apologise for underrating you. Cymru am byth.


Wouldn't the English just get water from England?
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:52 - Jun 20 with 719 viewskrunchykarrot

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:04 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

Exactly.

New Zealand, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland and Denmark all seem to manage not to be invaded just fine.

Nuclear weapons totally useless against modern foes like Islamic State.
Might be better spend on the conventional forces, NHS and Education, just a thought !! 😂


OK so we will have to fund an army, this is getting very expensive. How much are you going to charge them for water before they dam a valley?
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:18 - Jun 20 with 707 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:25 - Jun 20 by Scotia

Wouldn't the English just get water from England?


Scotland has 90% of the freshwater in UK .
Wales has a small population.

Guess who has a large population and little freshwater ?

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:36 - Jun 20 with 699 viewsjohnlangy

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:39 - Jun 20 by Kerouac

My apologies, that wasn't the correct figure (I was repeating what somebody I respect on these matters told me...they quickly took the Welsh Assembly's figure on spend, £17bn, and found the total figure for income tax from Wales, £3bn, on the HMRC site...which of course was flawed, they realised it straight away when I questioned the numbers).

The correct figures are £29bn raised and £43bn spent.
= £14bn deficit (which as it happens is the same figure I was told was our deficit, but obviously represents a different percentage as a share of the Welsh economy).

So if Wales was to leave the UK a year from today the size of the deficit between what we spend and what we raise would amount to approx. 34/35%.
Which is massive.

To put that in perspective, the UK deficit was around 11% following the financial crash...and that was a situation whereby the financial sector of the economy was obviously going to recover over a period of time.
Most of the Plaid and Labour lot behaved as if the cuts the UK had to make were akin to crimes.
Well if Plaid got it's way we'd be signing up to a deficit 3 times as large with no City of London to help us close that gap along with the inevitable cuts.
This country would be f*cked.


An interesting fact if you read through my sources is that our deficit would only be £2bn if we were as economically productive per head of the population as the UK average.
Welsh Labour have presided over this since the mid 90s.
Draw your own conclusions.


Here are my sources if you are interested;


https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1767424/Wales_Fiscal_Futur

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49127308

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-08/welsh-government-annu


No problem. I realised you'd read or misread or were told incorrect numbers. I was intrigued. The last time I saw the figures the numbers were £25 billion and £38 billion. Which is much the same.

I've posted many times the little I know about these things. Here goes again.

The numbers are correct as the Westminster Government chooses to measure them. Whether the figure is £25 or £29 billion there are billions of Welsh taxes not registered as Welsh tax. I always use Tesco as an example. Tesco sales in Wales are around £3 billion. Most of what they sell is non VAT but if even a tenth of their sales are VAT chargeable (clothes, electronics, garden and house stuff) that in itself would amount to about £60 million. Add on their Corp tax and it's a hell of a lot of money. All of it is registered at their HQ in Hertfordshire. So to HMRC it's classed as English tax. Almost ALL HQ's of large corporations in the UK are based in London and the South East. And they almost all register their VAT/Corp tax at their HQ's. It's just easier for accounting purposes. Add together the VAT/Corp tax from all the companies that do similar and it would be very easy to end up with billions.

Then add all the other taxes not registered as Welsh tax. One of the funniest is Road tax. I live a quarter of a mile from DVLA. And yet my Road Tax is classed as English Tax because it's all included as Dept Of Transport. Which is in London.

I won't go into them all. I'm just trying to make a general point that there are billions not included in the Welsh revenue total.

Most people believe the Welsh Expenditure figure means money spent in Wales, for Wales, by Wales, for the Welsh people. All of it. It isn't. Billions of it are spent in England. 5% of the cost of all those enormous infrastructure projects, which almost always happen in England, gets allocated as Welsh Expenditure. It doesn't matter if there's no benefit to Wales. If the Government classes a project as being for the benefit of the whole of the UK then we all get lumbered with our share. Crossrail/HS2/Heathrow/Crossrail 2 (one of Boris' pet projects which will almost certainly happen- that'll cost us another £1.5 billion).

I don't have solid numbers. But I know that that lot would halve the £14 billion you refer to (maybe less than half). Then take out the £1.8 billion we are charged currently for our share of defence and the figure is getting much more manageable.

This post is getting a bit long now. I'll make one more point. I wasn't aware of the £2bn figure you mentioned. It doesn't surprise me as currently I believe Welsh GDP is around 72% of the UK average. That's a huge difference. But the decline has been happening for a long time. Well before Labour came to power in the nineties. And the Sennedd have very limited powers to borrow and invest in boosting that figure. We have 3rd world infrastructure in Wales. For example, Wales has 6% of the total railway lines in the UK. In the last 10 years Network Rail, which is publicly owned, has invested just 1% of it's expenditure in improving the Welsh network. The Welsh Government has no control over that.

And I believe that nothing will change unless we change it. The Westminster Government aren't suddenly going to do things differently.

I really will stop now
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:37 - Jun 20 with 675 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:36 - Jun 20 by johnlangy

No problem. I realised you'd read or misread or were told incorrect numbers. I was intrigued. The last time I saw the figures the numbers were £25 billion and £38 billion. Which is much the same.

I've posted many times the little I know about these things. Here goes again.

The numbers are correct as the Westminster Government chooses to measure them. Whether the figure is £25 or £29 billion there are billions of Welsh taxes not registered as Welsh tax. I always use Tesco as an example. Tesco sales in Wales are around £3 billion. Most of what they sell is non VAT but if even a tenth of their sales are VAT chargeable (clothes, electronics, garden and house stuff) that in itself would amount to about £60 million. Add on their Corp tax and it's a hell of a lot of money. All of it is registered at their HQ in Hertfordshire. So to HMRC it's classed as English tax. Almost ALL HQ's of large corporations in the UK are based in London and the South East. And they almost all register their VAT/Corp tax at their HQ's. It's just easier for accounting purposes. Add together the VAT/Corp tax from all the companies that do similar and it would be very easy to end up with billions.

Then add all the other taxes not registered as Welsh tax. One of the funniest is Road tax. I live a quarter of a mile from DVLA. And yet my Road Tax is classed as English Tax because it's all included as Dept Of Transport. Which is in London.

I won't go into them all. I'm just trying to make a general point that there are billions not included in the Welsh revenue total.

Most people believe the Welsh Expenditure figure means money spent in Wales, for Wales, by Wales, for the Welsh people. All of it. It isn't. Billions of it are spent in England. 5% of the cost of all those enormous infrastructure projects, which almost always happen in England, gets allocated as Welsh Expenditure. It doesn't matter if there's no benefit to Wales. If the Government classes a project as being for the benefit of the whole of the UK then we all get lumbered with our share. Crossrail/HS2/Heathrow/Crossrail 2 (one of Boris' pet projects which will almost certainly happen- that'll cost us another £1.5 billion).

I don't have solid numbers. But I know that that lot would halve the £14 billion you refer to (maybe less than half). Then take out the £1.8 billion we are charged currently for our share of defence and the figure is getting much more manageable.

This post is getting a bit long now. I'll make one more point. I wasn't aware of the £2bn figure you mentioned. It doesn't surprise me as currently I believe Welsh GDP is around 72% of the UK average. That's a huge difference. But the decline has been happening for a long time. Well before Labour came to power in the nineties. And the Sennedd have very limited powers to borrow and invest in boosting that figure. We have 3rd world infrastructure in Wales. For example, Wales has 6% of the total railway lines in the UK. In the last 10 years Network Rail, which is publicly owned, has invested just 1% of it's expenditure in improving the Welsh network. The Welsh Government has no control over that.

And I believe that nothing will change unless we change it. The Westminster Government aren't suddenly going to do things differently.

I really will stop now


Briliant stuff John. Diolch brawd.

Do you know the revenue opportunity as regards welsh water if we simply charged the market rate ?

I think the ‘not for profit’ welsh water is part of the problem.
I read one English water company was supplying welsh water to another water company based in East of England at a huge profit. And nome of the profit ends up in Wales.

The direction of travel is clear, annibyniaeth in 10 years.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:32 - Jun 20 with 662 viewsCatullus

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:04 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

Exactly.

New Zealand, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland and Denmark all seem to manage not to be invaded just fine.

Nuclear weapons totally useless against modern foes like Islamic State.
Might be better spend on the conventional forces, NHS and Education, just a thought !! 😂


Do you seriously expect that Wales would have it's own armed forces? Building those from scratch or buying from the MOD would cost far more than is feasible.

You could argue that we have paid our share into the Uk so we should get to keep Welsh bases and staff but who do we need to defend Wales against? Far better to invest in the Police and cyber capability. We have more to fear from criminals than other countries.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:49 - Jun 20 with 658 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:32 - Jun 20 by Catullus

Do you seriously expect that Wales would have it's own armed forces? Building those from scratch or buying from the MOD would cost far more than is feasible.

You could argue that we have paid our share into the Uk so we should get to keep Welsh bases and staff but who do we need to defend Wales against? Far better to invest in the Police and cyber capability. We have more to fear from criminals than other countries.


I am in broad agreement.

I was not thinking of a military on the scale of a former and still declining colonial power.
More modern and light weight like Ireland or Denmark maybe ?

Certainly only enough to support any civic need, or help out the UN in peace keeping type missions.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:39 - Jun 21 with 627 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:18 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

Scotland has 90% of the freshwater in UK .
Wales has a small population.

Guess who has a large population and little freshwater ?


Saudi Arabia? That's going to be a pretty long pipe.

I think the English would be OK, they have got the lake district amongst other very wet places.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:49 - Jun 21 with 619 viewsfelixstowe_jack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:18 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

Scotland has 90% of the freshwater in UK .
Wales has a small population.

Guess who has a large population and little freshwater ?


I think you will find that the total volume of water that falls on England is greater than that of both scotland NI and wales as it's land area is greater than of the other three combined.

Just a matter of collecting it and storing it funny thing is we never have hosepipe bans in east anglia while, which is one of the driest areas of the UK. Other parts of the UK often have bans.

I guess Wales could always trade some of it's water in return for getting it's food supply from the arable lands in the east of England.

Poll: Who wants "valleyboy" banned from our forum so he can post on cardiff's forum ?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:53 - Jun 21 with 613 viewsKerouac

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:47 - Jun 20 by Ebo

I don't think you have actually read those documents at all. They all factor Wales as part of the UK encompassing a shared deficit.


It is you that doesn't understand mate.
I have regular conversations with somebody who works at a high level auditing Welsh government, a highly qualified person...I read your post in response out to them over the phone and they were literally p*ssing themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll: Who is the disgrace; Rachel Riley? or Jeremy Corbyn?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:55 - Jun 21 with 609 viewsKerouac

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:36 - Jun 20 by johnlangy

No problem. I realised you'd read or misread or were told incorrect numbers. I was intrigued. The last time I saw the figures the numbers were £25 billion and £38 billion. Which is much the same.

I've posted many times the little I know about these things. Here goes again.

The numbers are correct as the Westminster Government chooses to measure them. Whether the figure is £25 or £29 billion there are billions of Welsh taxes not registered as Welsh tax. I always use Tesco as an example. Tesco sales in Wales are around £3 billion. Most of what they sell is non VAT but if even a tenth of their sales are VAT chargeable (clothes, electronics, garden and house stuff) that in itself would amount to about £60 million. Add on their Corp tax and it's a hell of a lot of money. All of it is registered at their HQ in Hertfordshire. So to HMRC it's classed as English tax. Almost ALL HQ's of large corporations in the UK are based in London and the South East. And they almost all register their VAT/Corp tax at their HQ's. It's just easier for accounting purposes. Add together the VAT/Corp tax from all the companies that do similar and it would be very easy to end up with billions.

Then add all the other taxes not registered as Welsh tax. One of the funniest is Road tax. I live a quarter of a mile from DVLA. And yet my Road Tax is classed as English Tax because it's all included as Dept Of Transport. Which is in London.

I won't go into them all. I'm just trying to make a general point that there are billions not included in the Welsh revenue total.

Most people believe the Welsh Expenditure figure means money spent in Wales, for Wales, by Wales, for the Welsh people. All of it. It isn't. Billions of it are spent in England. 5% of the cost of all those enormous infrastructure projects, which almost always happen in England, gets allocated as Welsh Expenditure. It doesn't matter if there's no benefit to Wales. If the Government classes a project as being for the benefit of the whole of the UK then we all get lumbered with our share. Crossrail/HS2/Heathrow/Crossrail 2 (one of Boris' pet projects which will almost certainly happen- that'll cost us another £1.5 billion).

I don't have solid numbers. But I know that that lot would halve the £14 billion you refer to (maybe less than half). Then take out the £1.8 billion we are charged currently for our share of defence and the figure is getting much more manageable.

This post is getting a bit long now. I'll make one more point. I wasn't aware of the £2bn figure you mentioned. It doesn't surprise me as currently I believe Welsh GDP is around 72% of the UK average. That's a huge difference. But the decline has been happening for a long time. Well before Labour came to power in the nineties. And the Sennedd have very limited powers to borrow and invest in boosting that figure. We have 3rd world infrastructure in Wales. For example, Wales has 6% of the total railway lines in the UK. In the last 10 years Network Rail, which is publicly owned, has invested just 1% of it's expenditure in improving the Welsh network. The Welsh Government has no control over that.

And I believe that nothing will change unless we change it. The Westminster Government aren't suddenly going to do things differently.

I really will stop now


I thank you for your considered response.
I can't agree with your analysis though as it contains too many factors that are unknowable.
Was a pleasure reading a well argued point of view for a change though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll: Who is the disgrace; Rachel Riley? or Jeremy Corbyn?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:04 - Jun 21 with 606 viewsCatullus

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:36 - Jun 20 by johnlangy

No problem. I realised you'd read or misread or were told incorrect numbers. I was intrigued. The last time I saw the figures the numbers were £25 billion and £38 billion. Which is much the same.

I've posted many times the little I know about these things. Here goes again.

The numbers are correct as the Westminster Government chooses to measure them. Whether the figure is £25 or £29 billion there are billions of Welsh taxes not registered as Welsh tax. I always use Tesco as an example. Tesco sales in Wales are around £3 billion. Most of what they sell is non VAT but if even a tenth of their sales are VAT chargeable (clothes, electronics, garden and house stuff) that in itself would amount to about £60 million. Add on their Corp tax and it's a hell of a lot of money. All of it is registered at their HQ in Hertfordshire. So to HMRC it's classed as English tax. Almost ALL HQ's of large corporations in the UK are based in London and the South East. And they almost all register their VAT/Corp tax at their HQ's. It's just easier for accounting purposes. Add together the VAT/Corp tax from all the companies that do similar and it would be very easy to end up with billions.

Then add all the other taxes not registered as Welsh tax. One of the funniest is Road tax. I live a quarter of a mile from DVLA. And yet my Road Tax is classed as English Tax because it's all included as Dept Of Transport. Which is in London.

I won't go into them all. I'm just trying to make a general point that there are billions not included in the Welsh revenue total.

Most people believe the Welsh Expenditure figure means money spent in Wales, for Wales, by Wales, for the Welsh people. All of it. It isn't. Billions of it are spent in England. 5% of the cost of all those enormous infrastructure projects, which almost always happen in England, gets allocated as Welsh Expenditure. It doesn't matter if there's no benefit to Wales. If the Government classes a project as being for the benefit of the whole of the UK then we all get lumbered with our share. Crossrail/HS2/Heathrow/Crossrail 2 (one of Boris' pet projects which will almost certainly happen- that'll cost us another £1.5 billion).

I don't have solid numbers. But I know that that lot would halve the £14 billion you refer to (maybe less than half). Then take out the £1.8 billion we are charged currently for our share of defence and the figure is getting much more manageable.

This post is getting a bit long now. I'll make one more point. I wasn't aware of the £2bn figure you mentioned. It doesn't surprise me as currently I believe Welsh GDP is around 72% of the UK average. That's a huge difference. But the decline has been happening for a long time. Well before Labour came to power in the nineties. And the Sennedd have very limited powers to borrow and invest in boosting that figure. We have 3rd world infrastructure in Wales. For example, Wales has 6% of the total railway lines in the UK. In the last 10 years Network Rail, which is publicly owned, has invested just 1% of it's expenditure in improving the Welsh network. The Welsh Government has no control over that.

And I believe that nothing will change unless we change it. The Westminster Government aren't suddenly going to do things differently.

I really will stop now


Good post John, my only issue is that the well made points need real figures, we need the true tax take for Wales to put against our true expenditure so we can see the true surplus or deficit.
Then of course, we need to real figures for imports and exports. ALl I usually see is number for the EU. It tells us we export a lot to the EU but what are the figures for our exports/imports to the rest of the UK? Does anybody know?

It's just like the Brexit debate really, we need the whole truth, all the facts. Only then can we made a proper decision.

Ebo, you think thr fallout from Brexit may change people's minds but I think Covid's fallout will have a igger effect. Besides which, having left the EU (and as I keep pointing out) Wales would have to apply to join and that could take a very long time. We'd need to make trade deals with everybody in the meantime, including England. Until then it'd be WTO rules and I thought no EUrophile liked those?

People make WelshIndy sound easy but in reality it is even more complicted than Brexit. Even if the maths proves that Wales could be self sustaining there is a lot to do, including starting our own currency. Unless we wanted to use Sterling and be tied to the Bank of England.
If the UK didn't have good enough people to negotiate Brexit does Wales have good enough people to to work through going indy joining the EU and negotiating worldwide trade deals?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:28 - Jun 21 with 593 viewsfelixstowe_jack

I see Drakeford has caved into the teaching unions. The teachers was have had an extra 3 months of fully paid leave, with only a few hours of work per week for most of then. A reasonable request to end the summer term a week later is rejected. It is the children who will suffer.

Poll: Who wants "valleyboy" banned from our forum so he can post on cardiff's forum ?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:42 - Jun 21 with 586 viewsCatullus

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:39 - Jun 21 by Scotia

Saudi Arabia? That's going to be a pretty long pipe.

I think the English would be OK, they have got the lake district amongst other very wet places.


If it was only about water, there are ways and means. Rngland could ugrade it's network reducing waste. They may also be able to build desalination plants. One plant can supply enough water for 1 million people per day,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Water_Desalination_Plant#:~:text=The%20Tham

So they'd need a few but it's possible. It'd create jobs too. I just don't see England being held to ransom by Wales over water. Instead of paying us top dollar surely they'd make their own arrangements?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:21 - Jun 21 with 577 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:42 - Jun 21 by Catullus

If it was only about water, there are ways and means. Rngland could ugrade it's network reducing waste. They may also be able to build desalination plants. One plant can supply enough water for 1 million people per day,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Water_Desalination_Plant#:~:text=The%20Tham

So they'd need a few but it's possible. It'd create jobs too. I just don't see England being held to ransom by Wales over water. Instead of paying us top dollar surely they'd make their own arrangements?


Nobody is talking top dollar, only you ....

Fair market rate is what people are talking about.

If Wales had cheaper water then good for welsh domestic consumers of course, but more than that it will attract water reliant industries into wales so their costs are minimised for commercual advantage.

You nose it.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:45 - Jun 21 with 564 viewsCatullus

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:21 - Jun 21 by Kilkennyjack

Nobody is talking top dollar, only you ....

Fair market rate is what people are talking about.

If Wales had cheaper water then good for welsh domestic consumers of course, but more than that it will attract water reliant industries into wales so their costs are minimised for commercual advantage.

You nose it.


Dwr Cymru is not for profit anyway, could they bring prices down?

Does Wales attract water reliant businesses now? If we are not in the UK or the EU which of those businesses would come here?
If we managed to join the EU fairly quickly, how do we attract those businesses here? Bearing in mind state aid is against EU rules though we may be able to get away with 'general economic development' for a while,

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:31 - Jun 21 with 533 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:37 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack

Briliant stuff John. Diolch brawd.

Do you know the revenue opportunity as regards welsh water if we simply charged the market rate ?

I think the ‘not for profit’ welsh water is part of the problem.
I read one English water company was supplying welsh water to another water company based in East of England at a huge profit. And nome of the profit ends up in Wales.

The direction of travel is clear, annibyniaeth in 10 years.


Severn Trent Water makes £1 billion per annum sellling welsh water to other English water companies.

None of this goes to Wales.

Based on 243 billion litres per annum.

This needs to change.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:39 - Jun 21 with 515 viewspencoedjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:28 - Jun 21 by felixstowe_jack

I see Drakeford has caved into the teaching unions. The teachers was have had an extra 3 months of fully paid leave, with only a few hours of work per week for most of then. A reasonable request to end the summer term a week later is rejected. It is the children who will suffer.


Indeed

He will be off cap in hand to Westminster soon.
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