| Sir Geoff Palmer 17:59 - Jun 9 with 1963 views | Darran |
Very interesting to listen to his reasons on Sky News just now saying that statues shouldn’t be pulled down and that the plaques on them should be changed so history is never forgotten.
I’ve seen him on something before he’s lovely man. |  |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:07 - Jun 9 with 1130 views | dickythorpe |
Alun Lenny a voice of common sense says leave them as a reminder of our "imperfect past" |  | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:09 - Jun 9 with 1127 views | Professor |
It's a difficult one Darran. I can also see the argument of the removal from public places and putting them in a museum. I think the clear cut ones like Colston are offensive to a significant number of people. Some are a bit more tenuous like the removal of the Leverhulme memorial as slaves were used on some plantations that palm oil was harvested on-in this case it is not a statue.
There has been a lot of debate over the merchant streets in Liverpool-many of which are named from those involved in the slave/sugar/tobacco trade, though unlike Bristol don't have statues or buildings named after these guys. We do have the International Slavery Museum. If you are feeling over chirpy I would recommend it as a way of bringing you down. Important but not pleasant. Not quite in the league of the Red Terror (DERG) Museum in Addis Ababa. That is harrowing. |  | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:13 - Jun 9 with 1113 views | Darran |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:09 - Jun 9 by Professor |
It's a difficult one Darran. I can also see the argument of the removal from public places and putting them in a museum. I think the clear cut ones like Colston are offensive to a significant number of people. Some are a bit more tenuous like the removal of the Leverhulme memorial as slaves were used on some plantations that palm oil was harvested on-in this case it is not a statue.
There has been a lot of debate over the merchant streets in Liverpool-many of which are named from those involved in the slave/sugar/tobacco trade, though unlike Bristol don't have statues or buildings named after these guys. We do have the International Slavery Museum. If you are feeling over chirpy I would recommend it as a way of bringing you down. Important but not pleasant. Not quite in the league of the Red Terror (DERG) Museum in Addis Ababa. That is harrowing. |
Yes it is.
I don’t think they should be gotten rid of altogether myself it needs to be spoken about to future generations. | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:13 - Jun 9 with 1112 views | Humpty |
Apparently in Bristol it was proposed that the statues should stay but an additional plaque should be added explaining who Colston was and his involvement in the slave trade.
Bristol's Conservative councillors vetoed the idea. |  | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:15 - Jun 9 with 1104 views | Darran |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:13 - Jun 9 by Humpty |
Apparently in Bristol it was proposed that the statues should stay but an additional plaque should be added explaining who Colston was and his involvement in the slave trade.
Bristol's Conservative councillors vetoed the idea. |
Tories see. | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:21 - Jun 9 with 1087 views | Humpty |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:15 - Jun 9 by Darran |
Tories see. |
Indeed.
So when supporters of the statue claim if you remove them you're destroying history they're talking complete bullshit.
Its they who want to deny people knowing the history. Why someone would want to do that is beyond me. | | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:23 - Jun 9 with 1084 views | sP7qupUf |
Racism and slavery are terrible things but I don't subscribe to the growing extremism that we are witnessing at the moment. I had Jeremy Vine on in the background this afternoon and was not really taking it in properly but there was some discussion about taking Nelson off his pedestal in Traflgar Square.I think it is important to remember that a country that forgets its history repeats its mistakes. Certain statues should be removed and put in a museum where it can be put into context.
Whilst slavery was dreadful there needs to be an understanding that some of the African tribes were also culpable as they enslaved prisoners taken in tribal wars and also sold them to the slavetraders. I have not heard mention of this in any recent debate. Also, I'm not sure but I think the lady being interviewed and supporting the removal of these statues was of Indian extraction. Indian society is riddled with inequality and the caste system discriminates against its own people with the "Untouchables" treated appallingly.
I just think that there is a bit of balance needed in what is rapidly becoming hysteria in some quarters. | | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:28 - Jun 9 with 1071 views | Darran |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:23 - Jun 9 by sP7qupUf |
Racism and slavery are terrible things but I don't subscribe to the growing extremism that we are witnessing at the moment. I had Jeremy Vine on in the background this afternoon and was not really taking it in properly but there was some discussion about taking Nelson off his pedestal in Traflgar Square.I think it is important to remember that a country that forgets its history repeats its mistakes. Certain statues should be removed and put in a museum where it can be put into context.
Whilst slavery was dreadful there needs to be an understanding that some of the African tribes were also culpable as they enslaved prisoners taken in tribal wars and also sold them to the slavetraders. I have not heard mention of this in any recent debate. Also, I'm not sure but I think the lady being interviewed and supporting the removal of these statues was of Indian extraction. Indian society is riddled with inequality and the caste system discriminates against its own people with the "Untouchables" treated appallingly.
I just think that there is a bit of balance needed in what is rapidly becoming hysteria in some quarters. |
ffs Nelson is disabled mun who are they going to pick on next? | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:32 - Jun 9 with 1056 views | theloneranger |
Sir Geoff Palmer - The UK’s first black professor, talks a lot of sense.
I wonder how many people realise that people of all colours in the UK helped pay to end the slave trade, when Britain borrowed £20M to buy the freedom of all the slaves in the Empire.
This money borrowed for the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 wasn't paid off until 2015. |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:15 - Jun 9 with 979 views | Kerouac |
We don't choose our history, we learn from it (if we're smart).
Everything from the past should be kept, all the statues and all of the monuments, in order that we don't forget the past and can appreciate how we have arrived at the place we are.
What is important is what we choose to focus on, the story that we wish to tell to our children to help inform them in building a better future...which is why we should be focusing on William Wilberforce, the fight against Nazi Germany, the positive contribution we have made to the world (The industrial revolution, the inventions, the promotion of democracy etc.), the peaceful way the British Empire was wound up, the embrace of people from the former empire with British values (who were proud to be British) from all different races and creeds to emigrate here.
If we listen to people who tell us to continually fight the battles of the past over and over we know what our future will look like - N.Ireland or Israel/Palestine etc.
Sometimes it will be uncomfortable, people have just got to be grown up about it...good and evil is kids stuff.
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years."
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn |  |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:18 - Jun 9 with 966 views | Joe_bradshaw |
I think he was great in butterflies. |  |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:20 - Jun 9 with 963 views | Humpty |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:15 - Jun 9 by Kerouac |
We don't choose our history, we learn from it (if we're smart).
Everything from the past should be kept, all the statues and all of the monuments, in order that we don't forget the past and can appreciate how we have arrived at the place we are.
What is important is what we choose to focus on, the story that we wish to tell to our children to help inform them in building a better future...which is why we should be focusing on William Wilberforce, the fight against Nazi Germany, the positive contribution we have made to the world (The industrial revolution, the inventions, the promotion of democracy etc.), the peaceful way the British Empire was wound up, the embrace of people from the former empire with British values (who were proud to be British) from all different races and creeds to emigrate here.
If we listen to people who tell us to continually fight the battles of the past over and over we know what our future will look like - N.Ireland or Israel/Palestine etc.
Sometimes it will be uncomfortable, people have just got to be grown up about it...good and evil is kids stuff.
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years."
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn |
The peaceful way the Empire was wound up? Yeah the partition of India really went swimmingly didn't it? | | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:28 - Jun 9 with 948 views | Flashberryjack |
All public statues should be removed (except the one of Ivor). |  |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:32 - Jun 9 with 932 views | Neath_Jack |
Statues are the new flags.
F*ck em all off into museums. |  |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:38 - Jun 9 with 922 views | Catullus |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:32 - Jun 9 by theloneranger |
Sir Geoff Palmer - The UK’s first black professor, talks a lot of sense.
I wonder how many people realise that people of all colours in the UK helped pay to end the slave trade, when Britain borrowed £20M to buy the freedom of all the slaves in the Empire.
This money borrowed for the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 wasn't paid off until 2015. |
That's part of the problem, there is always talk about the bad things in the UK's past but people don't want to talk about the good. Maybe because ther's no compensation/reparation value in the good? So they ignore that slavery was around long before the UK/GB/Britain was, they ignore that Africans enslaved Africans and sold them on and they ignore the part the UK/GB and the Royal Navy played in stopping the slave trade. There'a lot more that gets ignored because it doesn't fit the agenda.
Like I said quietly remove these statues and then (as others said) put them in museums and put the info up as to what they did. Or change the plaques to inform people of the whole truth.
Education is the answer I think, in the long term. How else do you beat ignorance? | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:40 - Jun 9 with 919 views | karnataka |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:13 - Jun 9 by Humpty |
Apparently in Bristol it was proposed that the statues should stay but an additional plaque should be added explaining who Colston was and his involvement in the slave trade.
Bristol's Conservative councillors vetoed the idea. |
There have been plans to change the name of the Colston Hall around for a while and I think it was going to happen later this year but they may now bring that forward. |  | | |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:47 - Jun 9 with 905 views | Darran |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:40 - Jun 9 by karnataka |
There have been plans to change the name of the Colston Hall around for a while and I think it was going to happen later this year but they may now bring that forward. |
They announced it earlier. | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:48 - Jun 9 with 905 views | Neath_Jack |
It will be interesting this weekend up in London, what with loads of football boys, veterans and bikers all planning on being up there to protect the statues and memorials. | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:51 - Jun 9 with 900 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:28 - Jun 9 by Flashberryjack |
All public statues should be removed (except the one of Ivor). |
He played for Cardiff.
Pull it down! | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer (n/t) on 21:18 - Jun 9 with 842 views | howenjack |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 18:23 - Jun 9 by sP7qupUf |
Racism and slavery are terrible things but I don't subscribe to the growing extremism that we are witnessing at the moment. I had Jeremy Vine on in the background this afternoon and was not really taking it in properly but there was some discussion about taking Nelson off his pedestal in Traflgar Square.I think it is important to remember that a country that forgets its history repeats its mistakes. Certain statues should be removed and put in a museum where it can be put into context.
Whilst slavery was dreadful there needs to be an understanding that some of the African tribes were also culpable as they enslaved prisoners taken in tribal wars and also sold them to the slavetraders. I have not heard mention of this in any recent debate. Also, I'm not sure but I think the lady being interviewed and supporting the removal of these statues was of Indian extraction. Indian society is riddled with inequality and the caste system discriminates against its own people with the "Untouchables" treated appallingly.
I just think that there is a bit of balance needed in what is rapidly becoming hysteria in some quarters. |
You're right , India' s partition in 1947 being a prime example . Gandhi a hindu was murdered by a muslim .
The modern state of Pakistan was the result of all this and they've been at loggerheads with India ever since.
As far as dragging statues down where do you draw the line? Trajans column in Rome would be a prospective taget perhaps the Colloseum?? after all, unspeakable barbarity took place there . The arc de triomphe - that glorifies Napoleons armies slaughtering thousands and countries being subjugated. Once uou open Pandora's box it's not so easy to shut it.
Talking of Nelson he actually had a few black sailors serving in his ships at the time of Trafalgar -fact. [Post edited 9 Jun 2020 21:32]
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:39 - Jun 9 with 814 views | Lohengrin |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 19:48 - Jun 9 by Neath_Jack |
It will be interesting this weekend up in London, what with loads of football boys, veterans and bikers all planning on being up there to protect the statues and memorials. |
Half the serving British Army will be in town. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:42 - Jun 9 with 805 views | Neath_Jack |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:39 - Jun 9 by Lohengrin |
Half the serving British Army will be in town. |
On the lash? TTC isn't happening? | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:46 - Jun 9 with 792 views | Lohengrin |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:42 - Jun 9 by Neath_Jack |
On the lash? TTC isn't happening? |
Converging on the Cenotaph. Nobody’s getting near it. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:48 - Jun 9 with 784 views | Flashberryjack |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:46 - Jun 9 by Lohengrin |
Converging on the Cenotaph. Nobody’s getting near it. |
That's the police's job. | |
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| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:49 - Jun 9 with 780 views | Lohengrin |
| Sir Geoff Palmer on 21:48 - Jun 9 by Flashberryjack |
That's the police's job. |
The brass at The Met must be in a blind panic. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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