| Is the lock down ending too soon? 04:59 - Jul 1 with 125865 views | Glyn1 |
That's basically it.
Thoughts please. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 5:00]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:37 - Aug 4 with 1650 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:03 - Aug 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Wales is not Disneyland.
Brenda and Keith from Stoke drive over with a car full of cheap food from shops in Stoke.
They only buy a coffee and an ice cream each day in Wales.
And petrol home.
We should double the Council tax on all second homes and charge a tourist tax like many countries do. Only fair.
We wont miss Brenda snd Keith if they choose Skeggy instead next year. Good riddance.
And don't bring your fecking covid into our rural communities.
Different if you come and respect our culture/language and our way of life.
Times have changed.
Its done, finished. |
Dear God.
You really are utterly, utterly stupid. I can only imagine you’re a troll as no one can possibly be this thick.
Tourists in Wales spend £6.3bn per annum (more than your ‘water for England’ cunning plan).
Of that, international visitors bring in £405m. Day visits from the UK £4bn, overnight stays from the rest of the UK £1.9bn. Tourism employs 132,300 people - close to 10% of the Welsh workforce. Tourism adds over £3bn to GVA - 6% of the entire Welsh economy.
It employs 39,000 16-24 year olds, 18,300 disabled people.
And you say ‘good riddance’.
What about if England doesn’t bring its ‘f***ing vaccine’ into our rural communities? How do you think that will go? And its ‘f***ing taxes’ which doubtless pay you.
‘Our way of life’? Don’t make me laugh - you spend all day every day on the Internet -doing that in Wales doesn’t mean you have a different culture and way of life just because you spend your time following other teenage xenophobes on Twitter and insist on calling Northern Ireland the ‘north of Ireland’ and coming up with bollox such as ‘God created their border’ (obviously not thinking that there isn’t much of a bloody border between most of Wales and England in that case.
If it’s done and finished, you’d better have some good ideas on how to replace it.
Moron. |  | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 00:32 - Aug 5 with 1624 views | raynor94 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:37 - Aug 4 by londonlisa2001 |
Dear God.
You really are utterly, utterly stupid. I can only imagine you’re a troll as no one can possibly be this thick.
Tourists in Wales spend £6.3bn per annum (more than your ‘water for England’ cunning plan).
Of that, international visitors bring in £405m. Day visits from the UK £4bn, overnight stays from the rest of the UK £1.9bn. Tourism employs 132,300 people - close to 10% of the Welsh workforce. Tourism adds over £3bn to GVA - 6% of the entire Welsh economy.
It employs 39,000 16-24 year olds, 18,300 disabled people.
And you say ‘good riddance’.
What about if England doesn’t bring its ‘f***ing vaccine’ into our rural communities? How do you think that will go? And its ‘f***ing taxes’ which doubtless pay you.
‘Our way of life’? Don’t make me laugh - you spend all day every day on the Internet -doing that in Wales doesn’t mean you have a different culture and way of life just because you spend your time following other teenage xenophobes on Twitter and insist on calling Northern Ireland the ‘north of Ireland’ and coming up with bollox such as ‘God created their border’ (obviously not thinking that there isn’t much of a bloody border between most of Wales and England in that case.
If it’s done and finished, you’d better have some good ideas on how to replace it.
Moron. |
He needs a job, far to much time on his hands. |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 06:54 - Aug 5 with 1586 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:03 - Aug 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Wales is not Disneyland.
Brenda and Keith from Stoke drive over with a car full of cheap food from shops in Stoke.
They only buy a coffee and an ice cream each day in Wales.
And petrol home.
We should double the Council tax on all second homes and charge a tourist tax like many countries do. Only fair.
We wont miss Brenda snd Keith if they choose Skeggy instead next year. Good riddance.
And don't bring your fecking covid into our rural communities.
Different if you come and respect our culture/language and our way of life.
Times have changed.
Its done, finished. |
Do you advocate the same tax for crossing into England to go on holiday from their airports?
Do you advocate the same for all the illegal immigrants here in Wales, you know the ones, some wash your cars on every available spare piece of land? They don’t accept our culture and way of life, some can’t or won’t speak English, let alone learn welsh, which is unnecessary in this day and age as I would say that almost every welsh person can speak English! Look at the cost of the welsh language act and all the excess paper that’s wasted to send stuff out in both languages, not very environmentally friendly.
If you want stuff in Welsh, fine, just let the rest of us opt to have 1 piece of paper in English instead of another that is a complete waste and goes in the recycling .
You are so inward looking that people like you are a danger to Wales. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 6:59]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:35 - Aug 5 with 1566 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:49 - Aug 4 by exhmrc1 |
It is all very well ignoring advice of people who know what they are doing but it leaves you extremely open when things have gone wrong as they have.
It is clear from listening to the likes of Chris Whitty and Frank Atherton that they are working very closely together. Ignoring the advice of professionals who know what they are talking about is foolish. What would you do if a doctor told you that you needed an operation that could save your life. Tell him you know better and ignore him.
They are adviser's for a reason. They have the knowledge in an area that a politician doesnt and only the very foolish ignore their advice. This is why he has had to change his policy. |
I think this highlights your lack of understanding, intentional or otherwise.
If a Dr advises me to have an operation. I have the operation, nobody would give me any conflicting advice . I have no other choice. In fact I have it as soon as possible so as I can get back to normal life. But until I have that operation I manage the symptoms as best as possible because I have to live my life, I'm fortunate to have very generous sick pay but it doesn't last forever and I have to support myself and my family.
I only need to think about my health but life has to go on.
Now leaders of the country have a lot more to balance considering this virus and lock down.
Prof Whitty advises on the impact of the virus, economists on impacts on the economy, cancer specialists on impacts to cancer diagnosis, education chiefs on impacts of schools being closed, mental health advisors on impact to mental health and the police on potential civil unrest. The list goes on and on.
It is not as simple as following what Prof Whitty advises as the picture is far bigger as he said last week that we may have approached the limit of what we can open at present and if that is the case then other areas of society may need to close for a while to allow schools to reopen. If we get to that point at least places like pubs and restaurants in England have had an opportunity to generate some revenue in the short term to see them through a potential closure. They've had a month longer than welsh business and that could be crucial. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:52 - Aug 5 with 1560 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 23:37 - Aug 4 by londonlisa2001 |
Dear God.
You really are utterly, utterly stupid. I can only imagine you’re a troll as no one can possibly be this thick.
Tourists in Wales spend £6.3bn per annum (more than your ‘water for England’ cunning plan).
Of that, international visitors bring in £405m. Day visits from the UK £4bn, overnight stays from the rest of the UK £1.9bn. Tourism employs 132,300 people - close to 10% of the Welsh workforce. Tourism adds over £3bn to GVA - 6% of the entire Welsh economy.
It employs 39,000 16-24 year olds, 18,300 disabled people.
And you say ‘good riddance’.
What about if England doesn’t bring its ‘f***ing vaccine’ into our rural communities? How do you think that will go? And its ‘f***ing taxes’ which doubtless pay you.
‘Our way of life’? Don’t make me laugh - you spend all day every day on the Internet -doing that in Wales doesn’t mean you have a different culture and way of life just because you spend your time following other teenage xenophobes on Twitter and insist on calling Northern Ireland the ‘north of Ireland’ and coming up with bollox such as ‘God created their border’ (obviously not thinking that there isn’t much of a bloody border between most of Wales and England in that case.
If it’s done and finished, you’d better have some good ideas on how to replace it.
Moron. |
Your peerless exceptional England has no vaccine...🤷â€â™‚ï¸
And if Oxford , say, produces one - please God they do - then no doubt that the immigrants that are widely abused will have had a hand in producing it. A truly international effort. Hopefully EU funded.
Like every other nation who left the British Empire then Wales will have no trouble replacing two bob tourists from Englands big cities. No country has ever asked to rejoin, Wales is no different.
And we will be having a welsh born Prince of Wales as well. Its over.
Might ask Harry and Meghan as an interim until we decide whats what in longer term. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:54 - Aug 5 with 1559 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 00:32 - Aug 5 by raynor94 |
He needs a job, far to much time on his hands. |
Why is your carer allowing you to stay up so late ? Strange. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:59 - Aug 5 with 1558 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 06:54 - Aug 5 by Andy1300 |
Do you advocate the same tax for crossing into England to go on holiday from their airports?
Do you advocate the same for all the illegal immigrants here in Wales, you know the ones, some wash your cars on every available spare piece of land? They don’t accept our culture and way of life, some can’t or won’t speak English, let alone learn welsh, which is unnecessary in this day and age as I would say that almost every welsh person can speak English! Look at the cost of the welsh language act and all the excess paper that’s wasted to send stuff out in both languages, not very environmentally friendly.
If you want stuff in Welsh, fine, just let the rest of us opt to have 1 piece of paper in English instead of another that is a complete waste and goes in the recycling .
You are so inward looking that people like you are a danger to Wales. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 6:59]
|
Look up digital mate, printing stuff is so 1974.
You need to modernise you lack of understanding.
Its truly amazing how almost every nation on earth has 2 languages.
Think of all the cost .....!! 😂
We would save a lot more by scraping Trident.
And the House of Lords.
And illegal wars.
And HS2, Heathrow expansion, Crossrail and lots of stuff.
And Brexit. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:29 - Aug 5 with 1531 views | pencoedjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 00:32 - Aug 5 by raynor94 |
He needs a job, far to much time on his hands. |
He claimed he had one yesterday, we all know he is lying.
He's a stain on humanity. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:34 - Aug 5 with 1544 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:35 - Aug 5 by Scotia |
I think this highlights your lack of understanding, intentional or otherwise.
If a Dr advises me to have an operation. I have the operation, nobody would give me any conflicting advice . I have no other choice. In fact I have it as soon as possible so as I can get back to normal life. But until I have that operation I manage the symptoms as best as possible because I have to live my life, I'm fortunate to have very generous sick pay but it doesn't last forever and I have to support myself and my family.
I only need to think about my health but life has to go on.
Now leaders of the country have a lot more to balance considering this virus and lock down.
Prof Whitty advises on the impact of the virus, economists on impacts on the economy, cancer specialists on impacts to cancer diagnosis, education chiefs on impacts of schools being closed, mental health advisors on impact to mental health and the police on potential civil unrest. The list goes on and on.
It is not as simple as following what Prof Whitty advises as the picture is far bigger as he said last week that we may have approached the limit of what we can open at present and if that is the case then other areas of society may need to close for a while to allow schools to reopen. If we get to that point at least places like pubs and restaurants in England have had an opportunity to generate some revenue in the short term to see them through a potential closure. They've had a month longer than welsh business and that could be crucial. |
You totally miss the point. Whitty and indeed many others advise not to reopen things as it will cause a spike. Johnson ignores it. There is a spike because of it. Ignore the advice of experts and then finding you have to face up to your stupidity says it all.
Barry Ferguson of Imperial College the guy who recommended lockdown believes 1/2 the deaths could have been avoided had they brought the lockdown in when he recommended it a week earlier. He is a renowned leader in the field. Johnson ignored it. There has been numerous people who have died because of it.
When you have such a major problem as this it is foolish to ignore that advice. The government is there to save as many lives as possible. Johnson saying and actually shaking hands with people then getting the virus. The whole handling of this crises is wrong.
By the way before PerCh accuses me of being anti English let me say I have total respect for Chris Whitty and Frank Atherton our own medical adviser here who are both English. I just wishes others in England followed Whitty and others advice and many English lives would have been saved. It is no coincidence that since Wales first had a day without any loss of life from the virus than many good English people have sadly died. This is largely due to the lockdown rules being stricter here including the stay local advice. The same advice followed in Scotland and Northern Ireland where deaths are also much lower.
Just to add the local authority with the 3rd highest rate of deaths in England is County Durham. No big city there and very few ethnic people as well. This just shows that difference in cases between Wales and England isnt just down to race and big city syndrome and echoes the fact that Betsi Cadwalladr in North Wales has over a hundred more deaths than Cardiff and the Vale and Aneurin Bevan Health Boards and nearly double the number in Swansea Bay. All the deaths in Wales over the last 3 or so weeks have been in that area. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 8:42]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:35 - Aug 5 with 1529 views | raynor94 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:54 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Why is your carer allowing you to stay up so late ? Strange. |
You really should try getting a job, I'm sure it would broaden your horizons, and the interaction with other human beings, would be so beneficial. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:15 - Aug 5 with 1503 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:52 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Your peerless exceptional England has no vaccine...🤷â€â™‚ï¸
And if Oxford , say, produces one - please God they do - then no doubt that the immigrants that are widely abused will have had a hand in producing it. A truly international effort. Hopefully EU funded.
Like every other nation who left the British Empire then Wales will have no trouble replacing two bob tourists from Englands big cities. No country has ever asked to rejoin, Wales is no different.
And we will be having a welsh born Prince of Wales as well. Its over.
Might ask Harry and Meghan as an interim until we decide whats what in longer term. |
Sadly deluded. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:16 - Aug 5 with 1502 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:54 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Why is your carer allowing you to stay up so late ? Strange. |
Still sadly deluded. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:18 - Aug 5 with 1501 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:59 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Look up digital mate, printing stuff is so 1974.
You need to modernise you lack of understanding.
Its truly amazing how almost every nation on earth has 2 languages.
Think of all the cost .....!! 😂
We would save a lot more by scraping Trident.
And the House of Lords.
And illegal wars.
And HS2, Heathrow expansion, Crossrail and lots of stuff.
And Brexit. |
Still sadly deluded. Both the UK and Wales voted to leave the EU. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:25 - Aug 5 with 1509 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 08:34 - Aug 5 by exhmrc1 |
You totally miss the point. Whitty and indeed many others advise not to reopen things as it will cause a spike. Johnson ignores it. There is a spike because of it. Ignore the advice of experts and then finding you have to face up to your stupidity says it all.
Barry Ferguson of Imperial College the guy who recommended lockdown believes 1/2 the deaths could have been avoided had they brought the lockdown in when he recommended it a week earlier. He is a renowned leader in the field. Johnson ignored it. There has been numerous people who have died because of it.
When you have such a major problem as this it is foolish to ignore that advice. The government is there to save as many lives as possible. Johnson saying and actually shaking hands with people then getting the virus. The whole handling of this crises is wrong.
By the way before PerCh accuses me of being anti English let me say I have total respect for Chris Whitty and Frank Atherton our own medical adviser here who are both English. I just wishes others in England followed Whitty and others advice and many English lives would have been saved. It is no coincidence that since Wales first had a day without any loss of life from the virus than many good English people have sadly died. This is largely due to the lockdown rules being stricter here including the stay local advice. The same advice followed in Scotland and Northern Ireland where deaths are also much lower.
Just to add the local authority with the 3rd highest rate of deaths in England is County Durham. No big city there and very few ethnic people as well. This just shows that difference in cases between Wales and England isnt just down to race and big city syndrome and echoes the fact that Betsi Cadwalladr in North Wales has over a hundred more deaths than Cardiff and the Vale and Aneurin Bevan Health Boards and nearly double the number in Swansea Bay. All the deaths in Wales over the last 3 or so weeks have been in that area. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 8:42]
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Lets get some facts regarding deaths out of the way. I've stated them previously please stop ignoring them:-
1, Betsi Cadwallader has the 3rd lowest proportinate death rate in Wales, only Hywel Dda and Powys have lower. Both are more rural and Powys deaths are often added to England hospitals numbers.
2, About 18 times more people live in England, therefore there will be more deaths.
3, Deaths are effected by ethnicity but cases aren't. There is a far larger BAME community in England.
4, There are far more areas of dense population in England. Often populated by people from a BAME population. Virus transmission is obviously easier in a large city (see 3)
5, England count deaths in a different way to other nations this is currently under review but leads to more deaths being conidered related to Covis than elsewhere.
6, Since the outbreak began the infection figures per nation per 100,000 people are England 469, Scotland 342, N Ireland 316 and Wales 550.
I would completely agree that with the benfit of hindsight we went in to the lockdown too late. But Wales, who could have looked down earlier, didn't. Surely that makes Drakeford as foolish as Johnson in that respect? Especially as Wales ended up with a higher infection rate than anywhere else in the UK. It was clearly foolish to ignore that advice as at that time by far the virus and it's spread was the biggest consideration.
However since that point the virus has been controlled, and we are five months down the line. We have to consider all the other aspects I mentioned becasue we cannot stay in lockdown forever. Just as we can't fully release lockdown. We have to find a balance.
Prof Whitty said last week that we are now at that balancing point hence the postponing of releasing further lockdown measures. That isn't a U turn it is listerning to the balance of opinion.
I would say one point where BJ has clearly got the balance wrong is caving to the hospitality industry / economy regarding the abolition of 2m social distancing in pubs - he caved far too quickly.
It doesn't seem that lockdown release has resulted in a spike, there has been an increase in cases, but hopefully that is controlled. Much of this increase has been triggered by gatherings in peoples homes rather than the opening of businesses. Just remember back to May when we couldn't travel more than 5 miles and England could travel wherever they wanted - there was a continued decline in cases. The decision based on balance opinion in England was correct at that time
I fully expect there to be periods of virus increase, stabalisation and hopefully decline over the next few months. We just have to control it as best as we can. I also expect there to probably be zero days we don't see a covid death in England for 6 months or so, but that is down to demographics rather than Johnson. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:08 - Aug 5 with 1496 views | onehunglow |
Fair play Killy.
You beat me,squire
I give in | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:50 - Aug 5 with 1486 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:59 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Look up digital mate, printing stuff is so 1974.
You need to modernise you lack of understanding.
Its truly amazing how almost every nation on earth has 2 languages.
Think of all the cost .....!! 😂
We would save a lot more by scraping Trident.
And the House of Lords.
And illegal wars.
And HS2, Heathrow expansion, Crossrail and lots of stuff.
And Brexit. |
How is me looking up digital going to stop every government body in wales sending me two of everything on paper🤔
I suggested to the joking WAG that each of us could opt for English or Welsh to save money during austerity, guess what? Computer said no, pathetic really when they were complaining about not having enough money | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 10:56 - Aug 5 with 1480 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:59 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Look up digital mate, printing stuff is so 1974.
You need to modernise you lack of understanding.
Its truly amazing how almost every nation on earth has 2 languages.
Think of all the cost .....!! 😂
We would save a lot more by scraping Trident.
And the House of Lords.
And illegal wars.
And HS2, Heathrow expansion, Crossrail and lots of stuff.
And Brexit. |
You can't go paperless for official government stuff. Your council tax, DWP etc all comes in twice as much paper as is needed and us council tax and tax payers foot the bill for both the printing and delivering of as well as the disposal of twice as much paper as is needed.
Other nations that have 2 languages, I wonder (because I do not know) if they send out correspondence to absolutely everybody in the two or more langfuages they use? Or do they ask you to choose your medium? I also wonder if any bilngual (or more than bi) nation force such a minority language on people who can't understand it. As a percentage 13.4 claim to be 100% fluent with 66.1 claiming absolutely no capability to speak or understand Welsh.
So why we all have to get bilingual letters from the councils and government is beyond me.
If you would really be happy to do away with Englsih tourism at such a massive cost (assuming Lisa's numbers are correct) then she's right about you. Why do you think that going indy would suddenly make 1000's of tourists from across the world head here. England gets many more international tourists than us. A lot of them never come to Wales even though they could literally be an hours drive away. Why would they do a 5/6/7 hour flight to somewhere they wouldn't drive to in an hour? So to be rid of the English you'd cut off a major financial gain, but no, you don't hate the English do you.
Go on Kilk, do the DNA test, I'd love to know how Anglo you actually are! | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:58 - Aug 5 with 1457 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:52 - Aug 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Your peerless exceptional England has no vaccine...🤷â€â™‚ï¸
And if Oxford , say, produces one - please God they do - then no doubt that the immigrants that are widely abused will have had a hand in producing it. A truly international effort. Hopefully EU funded.
Like every other nation who left the British Empire then Wales will have no trouble replacing two bob tourists from Englands big cities. No country has ever asked to rejoin, Wales is no different.
And we will be having a welsh born Prince of Wales as well. Its over.
Might ask Harry and Meghan as an interim until we decide whats what in longer term. |
England is neither peerless nor exceptional. Neither is Wales.
The ‘English vaccine’ I referred to is not the Oxford vaccine. It’s the fact that the UK government are funding the research (in some cases), and purchase of millions of doses of, at latest count, 4 separate vaccines for the UK population. Health is devolved, so strictly, the Welsh government is responsible for vaccines for Wales. But it’s being done for the UK as a whole. Which obviously makes sense. But you’ll presumably say ‘no’ as it’s the ‘English’ sorting it out?
You seem to be mistaken on which side Wales sits in the context of the ‘British Empire’. British Empire is not an English thing, it’s British. Wales played a big part. As did Scotland. So Wales can’t divorce itself from the British Empire. It can divorce itself from England. If it does, we can only hope that there are people in an independent Wales who are not as idiotic and uninformed as you.
Wales can’t replace tourists from England with international tourists. As I showed in the figures, of the £6bn, only half a billion comes from international visitors. So that’s a big black hole. More than your water plan.
And I don’t give a toss about a Welsh born Prince of Wales. I’m a republican - I don’t believe in any Prince of Wales whenever they’re born.
You’re more right wing than this Tory party. You’re Farage on steroids. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:03 - Aug 5 with 1462 views | onehunglow |
Funnily we went for a long walk along a reservoir last week. Hard to see how a country could possibly survive primarily by flogging water.
Ive posted previously about how hoteliers and indeed farmers feel about tourists vanishing
You make a good point Miss Lisa | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:09 - Aug 5 with 1441 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:25 - Aug 5 by Scotia |
Lets get some facts regarding deaths out of the way. I've stated them previously please stop ignoring them:-
1, Betsi Cadwallader has the 3rd lowest proportinate death rate in Wales, only Hywel Dda and Powys have lower. Both are more rural and Powys deaths are often added to England hospitals numbers.
2, About 18 times more people live in England, therefore there will be more deaths.
3, Deaths are effected by ethnicity but cases aren't. There is a far larger BAME community in England.
4, There are far more areas of dense population in England. Often populated by people from a BAME population. Virus transmission is obviously easier in a large city (see 3)
5, England count deaths in a different way to other nations this is currently under review but leads to more deaths being conidered related to Covis than elsewhere.
6, Since the outbreak began the infection figures per nation per 100,000 people are England 469, Scotland 342, N Ireland 316 and Wales 550.
I would completely agree that with the benfit of hindsight we went in to the lockdown too late. But Wales, who could have looked down earlier, didn't. Surely that makes Drakeford as foolish as Johnson in that respect? Especially as Wales ended up with a higher infection rate than anywhere else in the UK. It was clearly foolish to ignore that advice as at that time by far the virus and it's spread was the biggest consideration.
However since that point the virus has been controlled, and we are five months down the line. We have to consider all the other aspects I mentioned becasue we cannot stay in lockdown forever. Just as we can't fully release lockdown. We have to find a balance.
Prof Whitty said last week that we are now at that balancing point hence the postponing of releasing further lockdown measures. That isn't a U turn it is listerning to the balance of opinion.
I would say one point where BJ has clearly got the balance wrong is caving to the hospitality industry / economy regarding the abolition of 2m social distancing in pubs - he caved far too quickly.
It doesn't seem that lockdown release has resulted in a spike, there has been an increase in cases, but hopefully that is controlled. Much of this increase has been triggered by gatherings in peoples homes rather than the opening of businesses. Just remember back to May when we couldn't travel more than 5 miles and England could travel wherever they wanted - there was a continued decline in cases. The decision based on balance opinion in England was correct at that time
I fully expect there to be periods of virus increase, stabalisation and hopefully decline over the next few months. We just have to control it as best as we can. I also expect there to probably be zero days we don't see a covid death in England for 6 months or so, but that is down to demographics rather than Johnson. |
Now lets look at the real facts. Betsi Cadwalladr Health Board as of today has 395 deaths for population of 678000. Swansea Bay has a 400,000 population. Using a simple calculation the Swansea Bay figure should be 395X400000/678000 233. It actual has 206.
Anuerin Bevan has a 600000 population. The appropriate calculation is 600000/678000x395 ie 349. It has 275less than the Betsi Cadwalladr figure.
This doesnt take it account that both involve bigger cities and have a higher degree of ethnicity nor does it take into account the Betsi Cadwalladr rate is still increasing. fact 1 disproved.
2 Yes there will be more deaths and it will proportionate but using 18Xthe Wlsh death rate then English rate is still over 1/3 higher.
3. The figures provided above disproves that.
4 Again the Welsh figures disprove that as does this
Cumbria with very low etnicity rates has a current figure of 13 cases per 100,000 residents.
Kent another area with no big city and low ethnic rates currently has 8 cases per 100000.
Bristol a much bigger city with 14% Ethnicity has a rate of 5 cases per 100,000.
Cardiff a slightly smaller city then Bristol but a higher ethnicity of 20% has a rate of under 2 per 100000.
5. Basically this is England trying to alter figures because they look so bad. Both the PHW and PHE and the ONS figures show he English death rate to be far higher.
6 Whilst the Welsh figure were intially higher the English figure has become much closer. Early in the cycle Wales had many cases. In fact on 3 consecutive days in April recorded figures of 383, 386 and 391 cases in a day. It is these figures and other days like it that has | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:28 - Aug 5 with 1433 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 09:25 - Aug 5 by Scotia |
Lets get some facts regarding deaths out of the way. I've stated them previously please stop ignoring them:-
1, Betsi Cadwallader has the 3rd lowest proportinate death rate in Wales, only Hywel Dda and Powys have lower. Both are more rural and Powys deaths are often added to England hospitals numbers.
2, About 18 times more people live in England, therefore there will be more deaths.
3, Deaths are effected by ethnicity but cases aren't. There is a far larger BAME community in England.
4, There are far more areas of dense population in England. Often populated by people from a BAME population. Virus transmission is obviously easier in a large city (see 3)
5, England count deaths in a different way to other nations this is currently under review but leads to more deaths being conidered related to Covis than elsewhere.
6, Since the outbreak began the infection figures per nation per 100,000 people are England 469, Scotland 342, N Ireland 316 and Wales 550.
I would completely agree that with the benfit of hindsight we went in to the lockdown too late. But Wales, who could have looked down earlier, didn't. Surely that makes Drakeford as foolish as Johnson in that respect? Especially as Wales ended up with a higher infection rate than anywhere else in the UK. It was clearly foolish to ignore that advice as at that time by far the virus and it's spread was the biggest consideration.
However since that point the virus has been controlled, and we are five months down the line. We have to consider all the other aspects I mentioned becasue we cannot stay in lockdown forever. Just as we can't fully release lockdown. We have to find a balance.
Prof Whitty said last week that we are now at that balancing point hence the postponing of releasing further lockdown measures. That isn't a U turn it is listerning to the balance of opinion.
I would say one point where BJ has clearly got the balance wrong is caving to the hospitality industry / economy regarding the abolition of 2m social distancing in pubs - he caved far too quickly.
It doesn't seem that lockdown release has resulted in a spike, there has been an increase in cases, but hopefully that is controlled. Much of this increase has been triggered by gatherings in peoples homes rather than the opening of businesses. Just remember back to May when we couldn't travel more than 5 miles and England could travel wherever they wanted - there was a continued decline in cases. The decision based on balance opinion in England was correct at that time
I fully expect there to be periods of virus increase, stabalisation and hopefully decline over the next few months. We just have to control it as best as we can. I also expect there to probably be zero days we don't see a covid death in England for 6 months or so, but that is down to demographics rather than Johnson. |
Now lets look at the real facts. Betsi Cadwalladr Health Board as of today has 395 deaths for population of 678000. Swansea Bay has a 400,000 population. Using a simple calculation the Swansea Bay figure should be 395X400000/678000 233. It actual has 206.
Anuerin Bevan has a 600000 population. The appropriate calculation is 600000/678000x395 ie 349. It has 275less than the Betsi Cadwalladr figure.
This doesnt take it account that both involve bigger cities and have a higher degree of ethnicity nor does it take into account the Betsi Cadwalladr rate is still increasing. fact 1 disproved.
2 Yes there will be more deaths and it will proportionate but using 18Xthe Wlsh death rate then English rate is still over 1/3 higher.
3. The figures provided above disproves that.
4 Again the Welsh figures disprove that as does this
Cumbria with very low etnicity rates has a current figure of 13 cases per 100,000 residents.
Kent another area with no big city and low ethnic rates currently has 8 cases per 100000.
Bristol a much bigger city with 14% Ethnicity has a rate of 5 cases per 100,000.
Cardiff a slightly smaller city then Bristol but a higher ethnicity of 20% has a rate of under 2 per 100000.
5. Basically this is England trying to alter figures because they look so bad. Both the PHW and PHE and the ONS figures show he English death rate to be far higher.
6 Whilst the Welsh figure were intially higher the English figure has become much closer. Early in the cycle Wales had many cases. In fact on 3 consecutive days in April recorded figures of 383, 386 and 391 cases in a day. It is these figures and other days like it that has created the higher figure. Since June the Welsh figure has consistently been lower and the rates are narrowing. In fact, today there has been 14 new cases in Wales 10 of which are in Wrexham and surrounding counties. The fact that Wales has come from a far worse to far better figure highlights the success od Dakeford's policies.
What one person describes a spike another may not. However it is a fact that the figure 2 days ago was the highest since June. I call that a spike. You clearly dont. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:02 - Aug 5 with 1420 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:28 - Aug 5 by exhmrc1 |
Now lets look at the real facts. Betsi Cadwalladr Health Board as of today has 395 deaths for population of 678000. Swansea Bay has a 400,000 population. Using a simple calculation the Swansea Bay figure should be 395X400000/678000 233. It actual has 206.
Anuerin Bevan has a 600000 population. The appropriate calculation is 600000/678000x395 ie 349. It has 275less than the Betsi Cadwalladr figure.
This doesnt take it account that both involve bigger cities and have a higher degree of ethnicity nor does it take into account the Betsi Cadwalladr rate is still increasing. fact 1 disproved.
2 Yes there will be more deaths and it will proportionate but using 18Xthe Wlsh death rate then English rate is still over 1/3 higher.
3. The figures provided above disproves that.
4 Again the Welsh figures disprove that as does this
Cumbria with very low etnicity rates has a current figure of 13 cases per 100,000 residents.
Kent another area with no big city and low ethnic rates currently has 8 cases per 100000.
Bristol a much bigger city with 14% Ethnicity has a rate of 5 cases per 100,000.
Cardiff a slightly smaller city then Bristol but a higher ethnicity of 20% has a rate of under 2 per 100000.
5. Basically this is England trying to alter figures because they look so bad. Both the PHW and PHE and the ONS figures show he English death rate to be far higher.
6 Whilst the Welsh figure were intially higher the English figure has become much closer. Early in the cycle Wales had many cases. In fact on 3 consecutive days in April recorded figures of 383, 386 and 391 cases in a day. It is these figures and other days like it that has created the higher figure. Since June the Welsh figure has consistently been lower and the rates are narrowing. In fact, today there has been 14 new cases in Wales 10 of which are in Wrexham and surrounding counties. The fact that Wales has come from a far worse to far better figure highlights the success od Dakeford's policies.
What one person describes a spike another may not. However it is a fact that the figure 2 days ago was the highest since June. I call that a spike. You clearly dont. |
That isn't the correct calculation to use to calculate deaths as a proportion of the population in that health board. Are you serious? Why are you multiplying everything by 395? And you've overestated the population in Swansea by 10,000 and understated in Betsi Cadwallader by 20,000. That's conveinient.
They aren't changing the figures to look better they are being consistent with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We should all be consistent if they are to be compared but unfortunately that doesn't suit your agenda.
A Spike is a spike, a short and sharp increase not a gradual increase that is being seen.If you describe that as a spike then you'd be wrong, but I suppose you are used to that. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:09 - Aug 5 with 1407 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:02 - Aug 5 by Scotia |
That isn't the correct calculation to use to calculate deaths as a proportion of the population in that health board. Are you serious? Why are you multiplying everything by 395? And you've overestated the population in Swansea by 10,000 and understated in Betsi Cadwallader by 20,000. That's conveinient.
They aren't changing the figures to look better they are being consistent with Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We should all be consistent if they are to be compared but unfortunately that doesn't suit your agenda.
A Spike is a spike, a short and sharp increase not a gradual increase that is being seen.If you describe that as a spike then you'd be wrong, but I suppose you are used to that. |
395 is the current death rate as of 4 August at 13.00 as shown for Betsi Cadwalladr in the PHW figures released today. This relates to all cases recorded by that time.
For your information the actual up to date figures as of 14.00 today are.
Aneurin Bevan 275
Betsi Cadwalladr 395
Cardiff and Vale 273
Cwm Taf 333
Hywel Dda 67
Powys 15
Resident outside Wales 4
Swansea Bay 206
There has been 17 deaths since 29 July all in the Bets Cadwalladr area. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:02 - Aug 5 with 1376 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:09 - Aug 5 by exhmrc1 |
395 is the current death rate as of 4 August at 13.00 as shown for Betsi Cadwalladr in the PHW figures released today. This relates to all cases recorded by that time.
For your information the actual up to date figures as of 14.00 today are.
Aneurin Bevan 275
Betsi Cadwalladr 395
Cardiff and Vale 273
Cwm Taf 333
Hywel Dda 67
Powys 15
Resident outside Wales 4
Swansea Bay 206
There has been 17 deaths since 29 July all in the Bets Cadwalladr area. |
Even if I accept your figures it is still 220 above the current rate of 206 and as the bigger city with higher ethnicity if your facts were true it shold be way higher as should Cardiff and Aneurin Bevan. The fact is it isnt.
People have tried to say that the reason for higher figures in some areas of Wales is down to poverty but the figures locally dont back that up. From memory the Mumbles area had 13 deaths and the Townhill and Penderry areas approximately half that. Ystradgynlais had 23 yet nearby Ystalyfera had something like 5, Pontardawe 8 and Clydach 5. All similar areas. Morriston South also had 23 but Morriston North only had something like 8. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 07:48 - Aug 6 with 1324 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:02 - Aug 5 by exhmrc1 |
Even if I accept your figures it is still 220 above the current rate of 206 and as the bigger city with higher ethnicity if your facts were true it shold be way higher as should Cardiff and Aneurin Bevan. The fact is it isnt.
People have tried to say that the reason for higher figures in some areas of Wales is down to poverty but the figures locally dont back that up. From memory the Mumbles area had 13 deaths and the Townhill and Penderry areas approximately half that. Ystradgynlais had 23 yet nearby Ystalyfera had something like 5, Pontardawe 8 and Clydach 5. All similar areas. Morriston South also had 23 but Morriston North only had something like 8. |
That second paragraph is the biggest pile of nonsense I've read. Probably ever.
I can't quite believe that you have said that because more people of died in Mumbles than Penderry that poverty doesn't impact covid outcomes. Nobody has said that the size of your bank account is an underlying health condition. Poverty and illness are about more than cash. Swansea is far, far too small a sample. In fact Wales in its entirity would be too small.
I'm honestly beginning to wonder when you last visited a large city.
I really can't be bothered anymore. | | | |
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