| Wearing of Facemasks 11:41 - Aug 12 with 8678 views | exhmrc1 |
Our Chief Medical Adviser in Wales believes the use of face masks offers very little benefit and can actually lead to more cases as people take more risks when wearing them.
Back in April we had 391 new cases in a day. Yesterday we had 13 new cases and the day before 12. Yesterday there were 6 cases in Swansea and 4 in Wrexham out of the 13. 5 of the 6 in Swansea were discovered by a mobile testing unit suggesting it was targeted possibly in a factory or farm setting. We do not have compulsory face mask wearing in shops.
In England and places like France the numbers have hugely increased despite people wearing face masks. UK has had over 1000 new cases yesterday and Sunday. Both were the highest figure since June.
Has Frank Atherton been proven right. Figures have been dropping in Wales without masks while increasing elsewhere wher masks are being used, |  | | |  |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 21:54 - Aug 12 with 1115 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:21 - Aug 12 by exhmrc1 |
Well the difference is huge and getting bigger. Today there are just 8 new cases in Wales. 1 each in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot and Carmarthenshire and 5 in North Wales including 2 in Wrexham. All 5 deaths were in North Wales and will soon drop. 16 authorities with no cases at all. 5 health boards with no deaths plus Powys if you include that. Somebody or some authority is responsible for that. The lowest figures of all whilst somebody or some authority must be responsible for the increases in other countries. It isnt all down to big cities or ethnic minorities. Cardiff has over 20% etnics.
Yes there are differences in England. They came out of lockdown earlier than Wales and brought in masks before Wales and have an increasing rate of new cases whilst Wales is dropping.
Try giving some credit to the people who have engineered this. Frank Atherton, Mark Drakeford, his government and the staff at Public Health Wales and Senydd. |
Mark and Frank have done a superb job.
I will still wear a mask though.
Choice see |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:12 - Aug 12 with 1107 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 21:54 - Aug 12 by Kilkennyjack |
Mark and Frank have done a superb job.
I will still wear a mask though.
Choice see |
For those that cannot source or afford P3 masks, then there is no choice to protect yourself.
Those that wear non P3 masks are primarily protecting others
Those that chose not to wear them in indoor situations where social distancing is difficult (like shops and hospitals - where the danger is higher and vulnerable people are being put at risk) are choosing not to protect others.
So it is an antisocial choice, a selfish choice.
For all those that praised NZ to the hilt, I am surprised they would not want to follow them in stressing the importance of masks when there is any community transmission. |  | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:18 - Aug 12 with 1105 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:12 - Aug 12 by chad |
For those that cannot source or afford P3 masks, then there is no choice to protect yourself.
Those that wear non P3 masks are primarily protecting others
Those that chose not to wear them in indoor situations where social distancing is difficult (like shops and hospitals - where the danger is higher and vulnerable people are being put at risk) are choosing not to protect others.
So it is an antisocial choice, a selfish choice.
For all those that praised NZ to the hilt, I am surprised they would not want to follow them in stressing the importance of masks when there is any community transmission. |
You dont need P3 masks. They are selling home made ones in the market for £2 washable ones. They are also on sale elsewhere. I use them on the bus. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:48 - Aug 12 with 1096 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:18 - Aug 12 by exhmrc1 |
You dont need P3 masks. They are selling home made ones in the market for £2 washable ones. They are also on sale elsewhere. I use them on the bus. |
You do if you want to give YOURSELF significant protection against the virus. P3 block the virus with a high degree of efficiency.
The surgical masks and home made ones give very limited personal protection, they are primarily intended to be worn by you, to protect others from you potentially expelling the virus in droplets when speaking or breathing etc. Their multi layer construct may deflect some virus but their weave is not small enough to generally block airborne virus penetrating.
Although i would prefer someone spitting on any mask I was wearing if the alternative was spitting into my mouth | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:56 - Aug 12 with 1069 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:48 - Aug 12 by chad |
You do if you want to give YOURSELF significant protection against the virus. P3 block the virus with a high degree of efficiency.
The surgical masks and home made ones give very limited personal protection, they are primarily intended to be worn by you, to protect others from you potentially expelling the virus in droplets when speaking or breathing etc. Their multi layer construct may deflect some virus but their weave is not small enough to generally block airborne virus penetrating.
Although i would prefer someone spitting on any mask I was wearing if the alternative was spitting into my mouth |
There's no need to make it totally airtight. This isn't the plague.Any layers will prevent the viral load from being too great | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 00:05 - Aug 13 with 1063 views | Highjack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:56 - Aug 12 by controversial_jack |
There's no need to make it totally airtight. This isn't the plague.Any layers will prevent the viral load from being too great |
The plague is bacterial and spread by bites so god knows what an airtight mask would do. |  |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 00:17 - Aug 13 with 1059 views | chad |
In fairness an airtight mask would probably relieve you of all your problems | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 01:21 - Aug 13 with 1048 views | CountyJim |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 22:12 - Aug 12 by chad |
For those that cannot source or afford P3 masks, then there is no choice to protect yourself.
Those that wear non P3 masks are primarily protecting others
Those that chose not to wear them in indoor situations where social distancing is difficult (like shops and hospitals - where the danger is higher and vulnerable people are being put at risk) are choosing not to protect others.
So it is an antisocial choice, a selfish choice.
For all those that praised NZ to the hilt, I am surprised they would not want to follow them in stressing the importance of masks when there is any community transmission. |
All you need is a sock and 3 layers of tissue Google it
Well done the the Welsh government Boris take notice |  | | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 10:48 - Aug 13 with 989 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:03 - Aug 12 by exhmrc1 |
From what I have heard Frank Atherton say it is that there maybe a marginal benefit to wearing a mask but that the evidence is very weak and not backed up by WHO. This was also said by Chris Whitty and others in England but Johnson decided to go ahead. Yes behavioural issue is a concern. There is a belief that people earing masks arent as likely to follow social distancing thinking the mask covers them but it doesnt.
Clearly the evidence shows Atherton's advice is working. |
The evidence does not "clearly show it is working". That is rubbish. You've cherry picked a couple of facts and jumped to that conclusion.
A marginal benfit is enough to encourage them to be used in relatively confined spaces I would suggest. As I said previously, I would have to wear one on a 2 minute bus journey, even if I was the only passenger, but not doing a weekly shop in a medium sized Aldi's store that I would be in for 45mins. Do you really think that is sensible? | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:04 - Aug 13 with 984 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 10:48 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
The evidence does not "clearly show it is working". That is rubbish. You've cherry picked a couple of facts and jumped to that conclusion.
A marginal benfit is enough to encourage them to be used in relatively confined spaces I would suggest. As I said previously, I would have to wear one on a 2 minute bus journey, even if I was the only passenger, but not doing a weekly shop in a medium sized Aldi's store that I would be in for 45mins. Do you really think that is sensible? |
The bus is a very enclosed area and the real reason they are being used on public transport is to make life easier when travelling across the border into England because our dickhead PM over reacted because his figures are high. 391 to 8 speaks for itself. If you cannot see the reduction without masks then I worry about you. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:50 - Aug 13 with 974 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:04 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
The bus is a very enclosed area and the real reason they are being used on public transport is to make life easier when travelling across the border into England because our dickhead PM over reacted because his figures are high. 391 to 8 speaks for itself. If you cannot see the reduction without masks then I worry about you. |
Obviously with so many variables the figures prove nothing.
Do you think the ‘dickhead PM’ of NZ has ‘overreacted’ too? She seems to be following WHO advice (although with the turning circle of a tanker, it took WHO a little while to recognise the blindingly obvious).
If I was ill and went to the doctor and was given antibiotics, would it be logical to claim that I was starting to get better because I was sleeping with my sprig of lucky heather under my pillow? Now WHO knows ;) it might have been the heather and not the antibiotics, but that would not be proof, let alone clear proof.
The fact that something appears to be reducing does not mean the masks would not have made it reduce quicker, or help prevent it from reoccurring. There are still many symptomless / presymptomatic cases and we have opened our boarders to holidaymakers, so simple precautions that do not even damage the economy would seem to be logical and would protect the most vulnerable who still have to shop and go to hospital appointments. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:07 - Aug 13 with 966 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:04 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
The bus is a very enclosed area and the real reason they are being used on public transport is to make life easier when travelling across the border into England because our dickhead PM over reacted because his figures are high. 391 to 8 speaks for itself. If you cannot see the reduction without masks then I worry about you. |
My wife is a vegetarian. Most of her friends are vegetarian. None of those have had the virus. I know a few people who have had the virus. None of those were vegetarian.
By your logic that would mean vegetarians are immune to covid and therefore everyone should become vegetarian.
You think it is sensible I weaar a mask when the only passenger on a double decker bus for 2 minutes going in to Swansea from Morriston, but not with 100 or so other people in Aldi for nearly an hour? And you worry about me? [Post edited 13 Aug 2020 12:11]
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:02 - Aug 13 with 951 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:07 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
My wife is a vegetarian. Most of her friends are vegetarian. None of those have had the virus. I know a few people who have had the virus. None of those were vegetarian.
By your logic that would mean vegetarians are immune to covid and therefore everyone should become vegetarian.
You think it is sensible I weaar a mask when the only passenger on a double decker bus for 2 minutes going in to Swansea from Morriston, but not with 100 or so other people in Aldi for nearly an hour? And you worry about me? [Post edited 13 Aug 2020 12:11]
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I have used buses and shops quite a few times. Here are some facts. Double decker buses have low roofs. On one day I was on the bus going to Swansea 2 women and 2 kids got on in Clydach and sat right in front of me a couple of feet away. I was at risk got off and got on another bus in Swansea. Tuesday I went to catch a bus in the Quadrant which is normally a double decker but that had broken down. There were approx 20 going on that bus so I left it go and caught the next one. People on those buses were very close to each other for longish periods half hour or more so the wearing of masks is advisable.
I have been in Tesco's and McColls in Pontardawe, Cooperative in Clydach. M&S, Market, Debenhams and Wilco's in Swansea and at no time was I within 2 metres of anyone for any length of time. All have high roofs. I have felt safe so dont need to wear masks.
The test, trace and protect ask for people you have been within 2 metre of for 15 minutes. I have not been within 2 metres of anyone for 15 minutes in any shop but I would have been on buses had I not got off in Morriston.
As I said previously the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is because masks are compulsory in England and buses and trains are going between both countries so for ease for the operators there needs to be a consistent policy. That is why the wearing of masks on public transport was brought in and taxis which you mentioned previously are a very confined space. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:29 - Aug 13 with 945 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:02 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
I have used buses and shops quite a few times. Here are some facts. Double decker buses have low roofs. On one day I was on the bus going to Swansea 2 women and 2 kids got on in Clydach and sat right in front of me a couple of feet away. I was at risk got off and got on another bus in Swansea. Tuesday I went to catch a bus in the Quadrant which is normally a double decker but that had broken down. There were approx 20 going on that bus so I left it go and caught the next one. People on those buses were very close to each other for longish periods half hour or more so the wearing of masks is advisable.
I have been in Tesco's and McColls in Pontardawe, Cooperative in Clydach. M&S, Market, Debenhams and Wilco's in Swansea and at no time was I within 2 metres of anyone for any length of time. All have high roofs. I have felt safe so dont need to wear masks.
The test, trace and protect ask for people you have been within 2 metre of for 15 minutes. I have not been within 2 metres of anyone for 15 minutes in any shop but I would have been on buses had I not got off in Morriston.
As I said previously the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is because masks are compulsory in England and buses and trains are going between both countries so for ease for the operators there needs to be a consistent policy. That is why the wearing of masks on public transport was brought in and taxis which you mentioned previously are a very confined space. |
Surely the salient fact is that if I'm on a bus, plane or train I have to wear a mask, in a shop I don't? The guidance doesn't mention how busy the public transport is or where it is going. Do you think that guidance is sensible - it would appear not?
What about staff working in shops? Surely making them marginally less likely to catch the virus by shoppers wearing a mask is a good thing?
Are you saying that Mark Drakeford thinks the public and transport companies are dull enough not to know when they are crossing the border? Surely if "journeys wholly within Wales" were excluded from needing to wear a mask people would understand what they needed to do?
You would think the leader of the nation with the highest infection rate and second highest death rate in the UK would be a little more cautious - unless of course he is just being different for the sake of being different. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:47 - Aug 13 with 940 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:29 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
Surely the salient fact is that if I'm on a bus, plane or train I have to wear a mask, in a shop I don't? The guidance doesn't mention how busy the public transport is or where it is going. Do you think that guidance is sensible - it would appear not?
What about staff working in shops? Surely making them marginally less likely to catch the virus by shoppers wearing a mask is a good thing?
Are you saying that Mark Drakeford thinks the public and transport companies are dull enough not to know when they are crossing the border? Surely if "journeys wholly within Wales" were excluded from needing to wear a mask people would understand what they needed to do?
You would think the leader of the nation with the highest infection rate and second highest death rate in the UK would be a little more cautious - unless of course he is just being different for the sake of being different. |
This is coming from the person who has constantly complained that Mark Drakeford has been too cautious not opening things quickly enough and seeing figures dropping massively whilst Johnson who has been far less cautious is seeing figures doubling. Now you have done a Johnsons type reversal and complained he isnt cautious enough. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:51 - Aug 13 with 937 views | A_Fans_Dad |
One of the big problems with statistics is the lack of them from the Government/NHS.
The only ones they give are ages, co-morbidity and Ethnicity.
What about Vitamin deficiencies.
What about a breakdown of the Jobs of all those who have contracted COVID-19?
The data must be there somewhere, it would take me a couple of minutes to write a query to extract that data, if it was put in a database. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:04 - Aug 13 with 935 views | Catullus |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:51 - Aug 13 by A_Fans_Dad |
One of the big problems with statistics is the lack of them from the Government/NHS.
The only ones they give are ages, co-morbidity and Ethnicity.
What about Vitamin deficiencies.
What about a breakdown of the Jobs of all those who have contracted COVID-19?
The data must be there somewhere, it would take me a couple of minutes to write a query to extract that data, if it was put in a database. |
Well we know that BAME are particulalry vulnerable and that a lot of NHS and TFL workers got covid. We also know that initially older people were more at risk but more recently it seems younger peole have been at a higher risk. We know that asymptomatic people can be infectious and that some people never show symptoms but have tested posiitve.
We don't know much do we?
We also know that viral load could be a factor, the higher the initial load the bigger the risk. Isn't that why facemasks are a good idea, if you are asymptomatic but infectious a mask will limit the amount of virus you expel. Seems simple enough to me! | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:11 - Aug 13 with 930 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:47 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
This is coming from the person who has constantly complained that Mark Drakeford has been too cautious not opening things quickly enough and seeing figures dropping massively whilst Johnson who has been far less cautious is seeing figures doubling. Now you have done a Johnsons type reversal and complained he isnt cautious enough. |
No I'm saying he isn't being consistent, and is just being different purely becasue he can be different. There was a strong hint of irony there.
At the start of July, despite there being very little virus in Swansea I couldn't go for an early morning stroll in Singleton Park. Today in Wrexham, with the highest level of virus infections in the country, I could be the only person on a bus to Tesco and have to wear a mask but could take it off when I get to the store with hundreds of others. Genius. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:22 - Aug 13 with 926 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:11 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
No I'm saying he isn't being consistent, and is just being different purely becasue he can be different. There was a strong hint of irony there.
At the start of July, despite there being very little virus in Swansea I couldn't go for an early morning stroll in Singleton Park. Today in Wrexham, with the highest level of virus infections in the country, I could be the only person on a bus to Tesco and have to wear a mask but could take it off when I get to the store with hundreds of others. Genius. |
Maybe its beyond you that he is working on a whole Wales basis. Part of the UK problem was that Johnson opened up whilst the North West still had higher figures and we are seeing the result of that now.
Unfortunately your comments on Wrexham are out of date. Today it had 1 new case and there was 1 unknown address which might be there and yesterday it had 2. As I told you the other day the new cases in Wrexham have dropped over the last week or so. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:27 - Aug 13 with 925 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:11 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
No I'm saying he isn't being consistent, and is just being different purely becasue he can be different. There was a strong hint of irony there.
At the start of July, despite there being very little virus in Swansea I couldn't go for an early morning stroll in Singleton Park. Today in Wrexham, with the highest level of virus infections in the country, I could be the only person on a bus to Tesco and have to wear a mask but could take it off when I get to the store with hundreds of others. Genius. |
Maybe its beyond you that he is working on a whole Wales basis. Part of the UK problem was that Johnson opened up whilst the North West still had higher figures and we are seeing the result of that now.
Unfortunately your comments on Wrexham are out of date. Today it had 1 new case and there was 1 unknown address which might be there and yesterday it had 2. As I told you the other day the new cases in Wrexham have dropped over the last week or so.
In fact in the last week there has been 45 cases for the whole of Betsi Cadwalladr Health Board. The deaths occurring there are people who have been in he system for a while and will sadly continue even if there are no cases.
In terms of deaths Wales still has under 1600 deaths a UK equivalent of 32000 in England. Even using the new system for recording deaths that is still way higher than Wales. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:34 - Aug 13 with 923 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:22 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
Maybe its beyond you that he is working on a whole Wales basis. Part of the UK problem was that Johnson opened up whilst the North West still had higher figures and we are seeing the result of that now.
Unfortunately your comments on Wrexham are out of date. Today it had 1 new case and there was 1 unknown address which might be there and yesterday it had 2. As I told you the other day the new cases in Wrexham have dropped over the last week or so. |
It's not beyond me. I understand what he is doing and has done and it is idiotic.
What do you mean seeing the result of it? Yesterday the UK had over 1000 cases - in itself that is worrying and I would have thought that is all you have seen?
Did you know that the last time the UK had more than 1000 cases before the recent reduction was June 21st? Yesterday there were about 44,000 more tests taken than on June 21st, mainly in targeted outbreak areas. The positivity rate is about 0.6% compared to Wales 1.4%.
That isn't so bad.
Anyway - this isn't about facemasks. So if you want to continue peddling your Drakeford is better than Johnson (for no other reason than colour the rosettte he wears) rubbish I'll reply on the other thread. [Post edited 13 Aug 2020 14:40]
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 15:28 - Aug 13 with 901 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 14:34 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
It's not beyond me. I understand what he is doing and has done and it is idiotic.
What do you mean seeing the result of it? Yesterday the UK had over 1000 cases - in itself that is worrying and I would have thought that is all you have seen?
Did you know that the last time the UK had more than 1000 cases before the recent reduction was June 21st? Yesterday there were about 44,000 more tests taken than on June 21st, mainly in targeted outbreak areas. The positivity rate is about 0.6% compared to Wales 1.4%.
That isn't so bad.
Anyway - this isn't about facemasks. So if you want to continue peddling your Drakeford is better than Johnson (for no other reason than colour the rosettte he wears) rubbish I'll reply on the other thread. [Post edited 13 Aug 2020 14:40]
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You can test 1 million people but if only 1000 have it that isnt going to change. The fact is the figure is increasing in the UK and has for several weeks whilst the Welsh figures have continually gone down. On 21 June Wales had 100 new cases and as you kept complaining those didnt include Pillar 2. 100 cases has gone down to 12,13, 8 and 15 on consecutive days, That is the basic fact. Wales figures are falling and the UK figures are going up. In that time the tests in Wales have also increased and been targeted including Wrexham and everybody in the plants in Llangefni, Merthyr Tydfil and Ebbw Vale. The Maths is simple. It is nothing to do with targeted testing as that has gone on in Wales. There have been days with over 7000 tests done in Wales but that has suddenly shown increases in cases. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 15:49 - Aug 13 with 896 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 15:28 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
You can test 1 million people but if only 1000 have it that isnt going to change. The fact is the figure is increasing in the UK and has for several weeks whilst the Welsh figures have continually gone down. On 21 June Wales had 100 new cases and as you kept complaining those didnt include Pillar 2. 100 cases has gone down to 12,13, 8 and 15 on consecutive days, That is the basic fact. Wales figures are falling and the UK figures are going up. In that time the tests in Wales have also increased and been targeted including Wrexham and everybody in the plants in Llangefni, Merthyr Tydfil and Ebbw Vale. The Maths is simple. It is nothing to do with targeted testing as that has gone on in Wales. There have been days with over 7000 tests done in Wales but that has suddenly shown increases in cases. |
Facemasks?
This is a thread about facemasks. I'm happy to continue to demonstrate that you are wrong in the other thread.
[Post edited 13 Aug 2020 15:57]
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 17:00 - Aug 13 with 885 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 15:49 - Aug 13 by Scotia |
Facemasks?
This is a thread about facemasks. I'm happy to continue to demonstrate that you are wrong in the other thread.
[Post edited 13 Aug 2020 15:57]
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You brought up testing as being the reason
Did you know that the last time the UK had more than 1000 cases before the recent reduction was June 21st? Yesterday there were about 44,000 more tests taken than on June 21st, mainly in targeted outbreak areas. The positivity rate is about 0.6% compared to Wales 1.4%. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:03 - Aug 13 with 856 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 17:00 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
You brought up testing as being the reason
Did you know that the last time the UK had more than 1000 cases before the recent reduction was June 21st? Yesterday there were about 44,000 more tests taken than on June 21st, mainly in targeted outbreak areas. The positivity rate is about 0.6% compared to Wales 1.4%. |
More tested and getting results negative doesn't indicate there are less cases, it just means more ppl without the virus are getting tested | | | |
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