| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:51 - Aug 19 with 2195 views | Highjack |
The people traffickers obviously. |  |
|  |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:53 - Aug 19 with 2187 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:51 - Aug 19 by Highjack |
The people traffickers obviously. |
What about those in this country that encourage these people? |  |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:54 - Aug 19 with 2187 views | Professor |
The brutal civil war in Sudan/ South Sudan meaning people are willing to risk and lose their lives to escape ? Change the circumstance to Ethiopia and Eritrea or to the Arab Spring. Civil war
In Syria, Yemen. A long line of botched interventions by a host of countries driven by multiple ideologies and religions. No one looks good here. [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 13:58]
|  | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:00 - Aug 19 with 2172 views | Highjack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:53 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
What about those in this country that encourage these people? |
No they think they are doing the right thing. Their hearts are in the right place but their heads are not. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:03 - Aug 19 with 2166 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:54 - Aug 19 by Professor |
The brutal civil war in Sudan/ South Sudan meaning people are willing to risk and lose their lives to escape ? Change the circumstance to Ethiopia and Eritrea or to the Arab Spring. Civil war
In Syria, Yemen. A long line of botched interventions by a host of countries driven by multiple ideologies and religions. No one looks good here. [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 13:58]
|
Why couldn't he have sought asylum in Egypt? Greece? Italy? France?
The war in Sudan has nothing to do with him being in a dinghy in the English channel. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:11 - Aug 19 with 2152 views | Professor |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:03 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
Why couldn't he have sought asylum in Egypt? Greece? Italy? France?
The war in Sudan has nothing to do with him being in a dinghy in the English channel. |
Without a war the people would not be in Europe. As HJ says the traffickers are very much to blame in ‘selling’ the U.K. As stands we take far fewer people that Germany or France for example. Christ knows why they want to come here over Germany..... | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:14 - Aug 19 with 2149 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:11 - Aug 19 by Professor |
Without a war the people would not be in Europe. As HJ says the traffickers are very much to blame in ‘selling’ the U.K. As stands we take far fewer people that Germany or France for example. Christ knows why they want to come here over Germany..... |
Why couldn't he have escaped the Sudan by crossing the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia?
They have plenty of money.
If they have made it to Europe, they are safe from war...surely?
So why is he risking his life to get to the UK illegally? | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:21 - Aug 19 with 2142 views | Professor |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:14 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
Why couldn't he have escaped the Sudan by crossing the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia?
They have plenty of money.
If they have made it to Europe, they are safe from war...surely?
So why is he risking his life to get to the UK illegally? |
That is the crazy part. There is clearly money to be made and I suspect mis-information and lies driving the want to come here. The choice is no immigration by refugees or we take a specific quota with defined criteria. Can’t be an open border or more of this happens.
Saudi is a big part of the problem too- behind the war in Yemen and involvement in Sudan. [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 14:38]
| | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:40 - Aug 19 with 2122 views | CountyJim |
Do you know what I feel tremendously sorry for these people but something has to be done because as soon as they reach a safe country that's where their claim for asylum should be heard
RIP |  | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 15:25 - Aug 19 with 2103 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:14 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
Why couldn't he have escaped the Sudan by crossing the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia?
They have plenty of money.
If they have made it to Europe, they are safe from war...surely?
So why is he risking his life to get to the UK illegally? |
The vast majority do.Most go to other middle eastern countries.Turkey has taken in almost 4 million, Lebanon has taken in millions too.The myth that they all want to come to the UK, is just that.We only take in a handful in comparison, so why should these other countries take in even more
It's not true also , that they have to stay in the first country they come to.It's perfectly legal to cross the channel and apply for asylum here. | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 16:12 - Aug 19 with 2082 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 15:25 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
The vast majority do.Most go to other middle eastern countries.Turkey has taken in almost 4 million, Lebanon has taken in millions too.The myth that they all want to come to the UK, is just that.We only take in a handful in comparison, so why should these other countries take in even more
It's not true also , that they have to stay in the first country they come to.It's perfectly legal to cross the channel and apply for asylum here. |
You are wrong, please acknowledge that you are wrong...
From Full Fact;
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”
As to Turkey and Lebanon, they are countries that border territories that refugees are pouring out from. Of course they have millions in refugee camps. The international community have assisted them also, acknowledge this fact
The UK sent more money and aid to Turkish refugee camps than any other country in Europe.
People in Syria were running away for 2 reasons;
1 - they are terrified of Syrian government forces (The vast majority were from Sunni muslim communities)
2 - they are running away from Islamists (Sunni Muslim ISIS)
Saudi Arabia, a country which has funded the ISIS nutters, did not take any of the refugees.
Iran, a country that backed the Syrian government took no refugees.
Russia, for that matter took no refugees either.
Why on earth do you assume it is our responsibility?
Forgive me, but were any of these countries taking millions of European refugees during WWII?
If the people of the Middle East are the responsibility of the West aren't you arguing for Imperialism?
Aren't you arguing that the countries of the Middle East are unable to govern themselves and are unable to form alliances and police their neighbourhood (in terms of geopolitics) ?
....because if their instability is our responsibility wouldn't it make more sense for our governments to provide the necessary stability there, in the middle east, rather than stand by and watch as millions of people wash up on our shores?
And wouldn't that require the West imposing themselves and taking power? | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 16:19 - Aug 19 with 2074 views | pencoedjack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 15:25 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
The vast majority do.Most go to other middle eastern countries.Turkey has taken in almost 4 million, Lebanon has taken in millions too.The myth that they all want to come to the UK, is just that.We only take in a handful in comparison, so why should these other countries take in even more
It's not true also , that they have to stay in the first country they come to.It's perfectly legal to cross the channel and apply for asylum here. |
I cant imagine Turkey handing out the same benefits that good old Blighty does.
I'd dispute the figures that 4 million remained in Turkey although I am sure they passed through en-route to a country that many of their compatriots who live here now hate. |  | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 16:27 - Aug 19 with 2070 views | Highjack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:21 - Aug 19 by Professor |
That is the crazy part. There is clearly money to be made and I suspect mis-information and lies driving the want to come here. The choice is no immigration by refugees or we take a specific quota with defined criteria. Can’t be an open border or more of this happens.
Saudi is a big part of the problem too- behind the war in Yemen and involvement in Sudan. [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 14:38]
|
There is massive money to be made. A lot of these people pay several thousands for the privilege to be crammed onto one of these death trap dinghys and pushed out into the busiest shipping lane in the world. Trafficking is up there with slavery in my book, these people need to be stopped. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:33 - Aug 19 with 2044 views | Catullus |
Wasn't there a story last year about a refugee from a civil war living in flats in Waun Wen I think, he said he'd felt safer in his home country. I can't find it now but I'm sure I saw it.
This boy tried to get here because he'd been sold a dream of a better life which all too often is a pure fairytale. The people traffickers then rip them off, giving them a usually very dangerous means of travel across the busiest shipping lane in the world for as much money as they can raise. The trafficker doesn't care if they die.
I strongly believe the law should say any illegal immigrants caught will be returned immediately to whichever country they came here from. That means if anyone makes it to the UK they go straight to the authorities and ask for asylum. Any delay, any attempt to stay here illegally means immediate deportation. Maybe it'll save some lives and stop traffickers making fortunes off other people's misery. There should also be strong punishments for anybody helping people to come here (and stay here) illegally. If you are a genuine refugee, make your case, we should always help genuine cases. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:43 - Aug 19 with 2039 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 16:12 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
You are wrong, please acknowledge that you are wrong...
From Full Fact;
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”
As to Turkey and Lebanon, they are countries that border territories that refugees are pouring out from. Of course they have millions in refugee camps. The international community have assisted them also, acknowledge this fact
The UK sent more money and aid to Turkish refugee camps than any other country in Europe.
People in Syria were running away for 2 reasons;
1 - they are terrified of Syrian government forces (The vast majority were from Sunni muslim communities)
2 - they are running away from Islamists (Sunni Muslim ISIS)
Saudi Arabia, a country which has funded the ISIS nutters, did not take any of the refugees.
Iran, a country that backed the Syrian government took no refugees.
Russia, for that matter took no refugees either.
Why on earth do you assume it is our responsibility?
Forgive me, but were any of these countries taking millions of European refugees during WWII?
If the people of the Middle East are the responsibility of the West aren't you arguing for Imperialism?
Aren't you arguing that the countries of the Middle East are unable to govern themselves and are unable to form alliances and police their neighbourhood (in terms of geopolitics) ?
....because if their instability is our responsibility wouldn't it make more sense for our governments to provide the necessary stability there, in the middle east, rather than stand by and watch as millions of people wash up on our shores?
And wouldn't that require the West imposing themselves and taking power? |
It's not illegal to cross the channel in a boat and step onto British soil, as long as they present themselves to the authorities, which if they are seeking asylum they will do.The illegal bit is when they don't and just dispensary.
Here is a list of the top countries that take in refugees.We are nowhere on the list.You will also find that Iran has taken in more than we have.
You say why is it our responsibility, Why is it any countries responsibility. It isn't but they just do it.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/globa [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 17:52]
| | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:49 - Aug 19 with 2030 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:43 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
It's not illegal to cross the channel in a boat and step onto British soil, as long as they present themselves to the authorities, which if they are seeking asylum they will do.The illegal bit is when they don't and just dispensary.
Here is a list of the top countries that take in refugees.We are nowhere on the list.You will also find that Iran has taken in more than we have.
You say why is it our responsibility, Why is it any countries responsibility. It isn't but they just do it.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/globa [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 17:52]
|
They are coming from France, so it is illegal...but then you knew that as I assume you can read. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:53 - Aug 19 with 2026 views | Catullus |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:43 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
It's not illegal to cross the channel in a boat and step onto British soil, as long as they present themselves to the authorities, which if they are seeking asylum they will do.The illegal bit is when they don't and just dispensary.
Here is a list of the top countries that take in refugees.We are nowhere on the list.You will also find that Iran has taken in more than we have.
You say why is it our responsibility, Why is it any countries responsibility. It isn't but they just do it.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/globa [Post edited 19 Aug 2020 17:52]
|
Many of them don't seek asylum though, they try to disappear into the country,
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/illegal-immigration
So they think there are over 1 million illegals in the UK and you can bet that is very much an underestimation. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:53 - Aug 19 with 2026 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:49 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
They are coming from France, so it is illegal...but then you knew that as I assume you can read. |
They aren't coming from France as they are not French citizens and are in France illegally.France has no obligation at all. | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:04 - Aug 19 with 2017 views | Catullus |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:53 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
They aren't coming from France as they are not French citizens and are in France illegally.France has no obligation at all. |
You don't have to be French to come here from France, he never said they were French! That was part of the problem when Sangatte's camp was at it's peak, the French were accused of turning a blind eye because the illegals were trying to leave France to come here. That was part of the problem with the EU's open borders, if you illegally got inside the EU you could move freely. Many immigrants didn't claim asylum in the first safe country they got to, they carried on coming West. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:12 - Aug 19 with 2007 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 17:53 - Aug 19 by controversial_jack |
They aren't coming from France as they are not French citizens and are in France illegally.France has no obligation at all. |
From Full Fact;
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”
Their lives aren't being threatened in France.
You have been proven wrong on a couple of occasions on this thread now, the facts have been presented to you, not opinions...facts.
Why is it that you don't accept the fact that a "refugee/asylum seeker" does not have the right to come into our country illegally from France?
The UN convention states that they need to seek asylum in the first safe country they enter. So stop twisting the facts. | |
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:19 - Aug 19 with 2000 views | builthjack |
Just a young boy. 16. RIP |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
|
| |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:27 - Aug 19 with 1996 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:12 - Aug 19 by Kerouac |
From Full Fact;
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”
Their lives aren't being threatened in France.
You have been proven wrong on a couple of occasions on this thread now, the facts have been presented to you, not opinions...facts.
Why is it that you don't accept the fact that a "refugee/asylum seeker" does not have the right to come into our country illegally from France?
The UN convention states that they need to seek asylum in the first safe country they enter. So stop twisting the facts. |
They are not coming directly from France, they are passing through to seek asylum here.Anyone has the right to seek asylum here.It is you who is twisting not me | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:28 - Aug 19 with 1995 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:19 - Aug 19 by builthjack |
Just a young boy. 16. RIP |
That's the sad fact.They come here and to other countries for safety and a new start and this is what happens | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:36 - Aug 19 with 1989 views | Professor |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:19 - Aug 19 by builthjack |
Just a young boy. 16. RIP |
And this is the most important fact | | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 18:50 - Aug 19 with 1979 views | Kerouac |
I'm sorry, obviously it is tremendously sad that a boy loses his life in those circumstances but that fact alone isn't the only important thing to discuss on this subject and you can't close these conversations down by invoking the dead.
Making the point that it's terribly sad and thinking we've made a vital contribution to the discussion is the equivalent of the 'beauty queen' coming on to the stage and declaring that she wants "peace, love and understanding and an end to all war" or something.
THE most important thing to discuss is what are we going to do from here on in to stop this from happening on a regular basis.
We as a society have to step up to the plate here and do the right thing, even if that means some making out that we are the bad guys. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
