| Coronavirus mortality 23:32 - Oct 2 with 14596 views | Professor |
Let’s put a true perspective on this. 99.5% of people survive. Well maybe, though probably closer to 99%. Imagine a full house at the Liberty.
Imagine as you go out a line of 120 people (maybe 240). They are executed.
That is a 0.5% mortality rate.
It’s not a binary disease either. More will have long term illness.
Just think about that.
This is not supporting a lockdown or any other specific intervention. Just a reality check. By the way flu has a 0.1% mortality rate. |  | | |  |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:36 - Oct 3 with 1093 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:29 - Oct 3 by Gwyn737 |
The OP states that the equivalent mortality rate of 0.5% from a full Liberty crowd would be 120 deaths.
He also says he’s not supporting a lockdown or any other specific intervention.
These points are hardly controversial.
Still some manage to pick a fight. Well done Prof on working through a career where you have earned your title. I just hope that Dr. P isn’t on your or anyone else’s honours committee as he’s clearly had quite enough of experts.
What’s going on Dr. P? You be gone super prickly on this one. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 14:31]
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Because it’s not true. The thread is claimed to offer “perspective”, yet it offers no perspective at all, just falsehoods.
It isn’t as simple as a 0.5% mortality rate and comparing that to a football crowd being randomly executed because that notion is underpinned by the fear and uncertainty of randomness where everyone has the same amount of chance to die.
That isn’t the case with coronavirus. If you are in the high risk category then you can take steps to mitigate your own risk, if you are not in the high risk category then the chances are you will be fine. So if the football crowd sorts itself out into the realistic groups where the high risk lock themselves down or just don’t attend and the rest go, you will get nowhere near a 0.5% mortality rate.
It’s misleading. Intentionally so. |  |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:39 - Oct 3 with 1099 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 01:18 - Oct 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
Incorrect.
Up to 650,000 people die either directly from or respiratory illnesses linked to seasonal flu every single year.
So we should always be in a state of lockdown and it was uncivilised of us not to have always been prior to Covid right? Remember the rules you set.
What about these people? Don’t they matter to you?
Professor, I am happy to have a civil debate with you but your constant shutting down of things you find hard to answer with name calling needs to stop or be explained. Ball is in your court. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 1:21]
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The Prof was talking about UK only with less than 10,000, but it can go higher than 20,000 as it did in the winter of 2017/18, or 15,000 in 2016/17.
Government statistics for all those that think it might be "shit off the internet". | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:43 - Oct 3 with 1097 views | Glossolalia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:27 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
Clearly,the common man on the internet know better than the clinically trained.
I would say Glossalia has posted the single most crock of shyte seen on here for some time.
We are still not taken this virus seriously which is proven when the wearing of masks is too much hassle and social distancing not needed a is the case with lockdown.
This second wave is a direct consequence of our national stupidity,the same minset that see students seeing lockdown as a human rights issue.
Old people?-Just cull the fookers eh. |
You truly believe that utter economic and social devastation is the answer to this? We are 6 months in and are fooked. Crippled. Come back to me when the next set of rules come in, and the next, and the next.
Covid accounted for 10% of deaths between Jan and July 2020. Overwhelmingly in those with health complications and those very vulnerable and old. These people are more likely to die, full stop. What the hell can we do to stop old people dying? Nothing. Because when you're old, you tend to die. It can't be avoided.
From the ONS - 'When considering deaths registered in 2020 to date (1 January to 31 July) in England, the age-standardised mortality rate for deaths registered in 2020 was significantly higher than the mortality rate in each year back to 2009'.
No surprises here. More old people have died this year than usual. Mitigate risk; shield them and be kind, of course. But shut down our lives? Absolute nonsense. And for what? People who generally spend far more time indoors anyway? Who, in the main, have their lives behind and not ahead of them?
I'm not frightened for anybody. My 96 year old nan survived Covid without a scratch, but if it had taken her, I'd have been fine with it. Why? Because she's 96 for f uck sake. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 14:52]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:45 - Oct 3 with 1085 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:20 - Oct 3 by Andy1300 |
Yes, but why should everyone else have to suffer?
The mortality rate is so low, more people are going to die through the lockdown, people are losing their jobs, people are losing their relationships.
If masks work, why are more people testing positive?
The professor is just as bad as the media for scaring the life out of people. |
Andy, when those yougsters were at their raves and in the pub etc I didn't see many masks in use.
770 students positive in Newcastle Uni.
I do however question the accuracy of the testing. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:47 - Oct 3 with 1073 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:39 - Oct 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
The Prof was talking about UK only with less than 10,000, but it can go higher than 20,000 as it did in the winter of 2017/18, or 15,000 in 2016/17.
Government statistics for all those that think it might be "shit off the internet". |
I see, it’s very shortsighted to look at a global pandemic country specific, because each country is different as the rate of infection and mortality rate differs from country to country due to a multitude of factors. Age of population, living conditions, household composition etc etc.
This is a prime reason as to why Italy was hit so hard.
I just don’t understand the logic that 10,000 or 20,000 people dead per year in a country is deemed as ok and acceptable by someone with that viewpoint. How many dead people is acceptable per year in their mind? | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:51 - Oct 3 with 1081 views | onehunglow |
Fans dad.
Im afraid,it is what it is.
If we do nothing,it will spread like wildfire. This has been proven as thi viru has exploded after countries opened up their borders. Fact.
Are you suggesting we do nothing.
Read this carefully and let's not get personal eh; I want this virus to go away and it wont as long as we act as we do. I want us to get a vaccine asap. Yet even that has its critics.
The future ,to me,IS doomsday .
I'll see you on the other side -in the Fiery Furnace.
Good luck | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 15:18 - Oct 3 with 1060 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:51 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
Fans dad.
Im afraid,it is what it is.
If we do nothing,it will spread like wildfire. This has been proven as thi viru has exploded after countries opened up their borders. Fact.
Are you suggesting we do nothing.
Read this carefully and let's not get personal eh; I want this virus to go away and it wont as long as we act as we do. I want us to get a vaccine asap. Yet even that has its critics.
The future ,to me,IS doomsday .
I'll see you on the other side -in the Fiery Furnace.
Good luck |
No, it is never possible to do "nothing".
I posted back in April exactly what was going to happen here because of the government's mis-handling of the pandemic based on what had happened in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan & Singapore.
But it is a fact that this is the only desease where the healthy of a nation have been "locked down" instead of the Ill being Quarantined or the local hot spot being locked down.
Them switching from "going for herd immunity" to panicked hand washing, social distancing and then lockdown when it was already too late, because they had nothing needed in place was the biggest problem.
Instead of a few hotspots it was literally everywhere.
I do not believe in lockdown when social distancing, hand washing, masks, gloves and glasses plus great care should work.
But unlike other countries our general public do not appear to have the necessary discipline required.
What is the biggest concern for me is that there are immune boosters and medication that turn this from a more serious version of the Flu in to a less serious version of the Flu. Plus it has been shown that those same medications and personal controls work just as well for the flu as well.
Cue the Prof to say it is all just "shit off the internet". [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 15:19]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 15:30 - Oct 3 with 1059 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:29 - Oct 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
I didn’t say it was the flu, I made the point that having a virus that kills the old and the sick isn’t a new thing. We have always had it and will always have it.
This isn’t going away, lockdown or not. Plenty of countries have not locked down and have fared similarly to those that have. Spain locked down early and they locked down hard, they have more deaths per capita than the USA.
You don’t lockdown a country because of a virus with a 99.5% survival rate, you just don’t. If you do then you should really be doing it permanently for the rest of time otherwise what about those susceptible to the likes of the flu? As I said up to 650,000 people die yearly, why don’t they matter?
The reality is, if you are high risk then you take precautions. If you aren’t, then wear a mask to help stop transition and carry on as normal. You don’t lock down healthy people and destroy the economy, it’s brainless. |
But we aren't locking down solely because of the deaths. We are locking down because it makes a lot of people very ill, ill enough to need hospital treatment. Somewhere around 5% of all cases apparently , 5% of a lot is a lot.
It doesn't just kill the old and the sick. I know people who have died who would have survived the flu. I know people who have spent a week on a ventilator who are my age with no underlying conditions. The average age of people currently in icu in the UK is 57. It is killing thousands prematurely.
Lockdown is damage limitation to people and the economy. I honestly don't think there is a comparable country that hasn't locked down to one which has and had a better outcome. You just have to look to Scandinavia.
Although I completely agree that we now need to move on and try our best to find a balance between reducing infection and maintaining the economy whilst hoping for a vaccine or treatment ASAP. | | | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 16:13 - Oct 3 with 1037 views | Catullus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 23:43 - Oct 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
You really shouldn’t use the moniker “professor”.
Covid cannot be likened to killing a random 120 people at a football match. That’s not the reality.
Covid, like flu, will affect a certain population. People who are already sick and those that are very old. In rare circumstances it will fall outside of that. So likening it to executing a random 120 people at a football match introduces a fear that is just not there.
It’s the same way police brutality is used to scare the black community. 3 in 10,000 of you can expect to be killed by police.... no, 3 in 10,000 of you can expect to be killed by police if you commit a crime and resist arrest, don’t do that and you will be fine.
So back to Covid, locking up a healthy population is barmy. If masks work as suggested then everyone wear a mask. |
That fear is definitely there for those of us in the higher risk groups! It's not just a moniker either, he actually is a Professor.
He was pointing out the reality of the numbers, he went on to point out that it's not just the virus's immediate effects, there can be long term affects too.
Locking up the healthy is about restricting the spread, you do understand that? Wales is an unhealthy land, we have a large number of sick, disabled and elderly. How many deaths is acceptable to you so you can carry on with your life? | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 16:14 - Oct 3 with 1028 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:30 - Oct 3 by Scotia |
But we aren't locking down solely because of the deaths. We are locking down because it makes a lot of people very ill, ill enough to need hospital treatment. Somewhere around 5% of all cases apparently , 5% of a lot is a lot.
It doesn't just kill the old and the sick. I know people who have died who would have survived the flu. I know people who have spent a week on a ventilator who are my age with no underlying conditions. The average age of people currently in icu in the UK is 57. It is killing thousands prematurely.
Lockdown is damage limitation to people and the economy. I honestly don't think there is a comparable country that hasn't locked down to one which has and had a better outcome. You just have to look to Scandinavia.
Although I completely agree that we now need to move on and try our best to find a balance between reducing infection and maintaining the economy whilst hoping for a vaccine or treatment ASAP. |
Lots of people who get the flu get very sick too. What’s your cut off point? How many is acceptable?
The flu doesn’t just kill the old and the sick either, but just like coronavirus the overwhelming casualties are in those groups. So again, what number of deaths or hospitalisations is acceptable for a virus on your opinion?
There may never be an effective cure. People don’t seem to realise that. This isn’t going away. Can’t keep people locked up forever, it’s ridiculous. The more people that get it the quicker everything can get back to some form of normality. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 16:18 - Oct 3 with 1034 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:18 - Oct 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, it is never possible to do "nothing".
I posted back in April exactly what was going to happen here because of the government's mis-handling of the pandemic based on what had happened in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan & Singapore.
But it is a fact that this is the only desease where the healthy of a nation have been "locked down" instead of the Ill being Quarantined or the local hot spot being locked down.
Them switching from "going for herd immunity" to panicked hand washing, social distancing and then lockdown when it was already too late, because they had nothing needed in place was the biggest problem.
Instead of a few hotspots it was literally everywhere.
I do not believe in lockdown when social distancing, hand washing, masks, gloves and glasses plus great care should work.
But unlike other countries our general public do not appear to have the necessary discipline required.
What is the biggest concern for me is that there are immune boosters and medication that turn this from a more serious version of the Flu in to a less serious version of the Flu. Plus it has been shown that those same medications and personal controls work just as well for the flu as well.
Cue the Prof to say it is all just "shit off the internet". [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 15:19]
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It is just shit of the Internet though isn't it?
Look at the two principal treatments that Trump has been given, Remdesivir and monoclonal Antibodies. Two unproven and experimental drugs. Although of course we may not have the full story.
Let's be honest if there was any better treatment or prophylaxis available he, above anyone else, would have been given it. The fact he contracted the virus speaks volumes as to how infectious it is, his hospitalisation demonstrates that there is no "off the shelf" remedy. The absence of HCQ is conspicuous by its absence in his treatment as is azithromycin. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:10 - Oct 3 with 1002 views | DJack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:27 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
Clearly,the common man on the internet know better than the clinically trained.
I would say Glossalia has posted the single most crock of shyte seen on here for some time.
We are still not taken this virus seriously which is proven when the wearing of masks is too much hassle and social distancing not needed a is the case with lockdown.
This second wave is a direct consequence of our national stupidity,the same minset that see students seeing lockdown as a human rights issue.
Old people?-Just cull the fookers eh. |
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 17:12 - Oct 3 with 998 views | onehunglow |
We have a Professor,well renowned in his field world wide yet he gets personal shite from the site' new ingenue of genius Dr Parnessus etc.-an expert in just what,virtual engineering .?
A man of science and knowledge that is revered from Colombia to Cardiff ridiculed on here.
We are truly fooked
[Post edited 3 Oct 2020 17:15]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 17:26 - Oct 3 with 987 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:14 - Oct 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
Lots of people who get the flu get very sick too. What’s your cut off point? How many is acceptable?
The flu doesn’t just kill the old and the sick either, but just like coronavirus the overwhelming casualties are in those groups. So again, what number of deaths or hospitalisations is acceptable for a virus on your opinion?
There may never be an effective cure. People don’t seem to realise that. This isn’t going away. Can’t keep people locked up forever, it’s ridiculous. The more people that get it the quicker everything can get back to some form of normality. |
Rubbish. Complete rubbish.
You can stick to the points I raised if you want. I'm not talking about a level of acceptability. There isn't really one with covid. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:38 - Oct 3 with 973 views | Glossolalia |
Keep fretting pointlessly you lot. But just remember from outside your little bubbles of hyperbolic fear lies the bigger picture - a country that must reopen for the well and able to prosper and protect. Because whether you want it or not, we will soon be economically duty-bound to reopen fully. We cashed our chips in with a knee-jerk full lockdown in March (something that should have been reserved for the winter months). That can't and won't happen again for many reasons.
I sincerely hope Tom Diabetes, Dick Cholesterol and Harry Obese get the warnings this disease proffers. Something tells me there are a few wheezing blimps on here. You reap what you sow, eventually - Covid or otherwise. Thankfully, no amount of red tape can stop that.
[Post edited 3 Oct 2020 17:45]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 17:40 - Oct 3 with 970 views | Glossolalia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:12 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
We have a Professor,well renowned in his field world wide yet he gets personal shite from the site' new ingenue of genius Dr Parnessus etc.-an expert in just what,virtual engineering .?
A man of science and knowledge that is revered from Colombia to Cardiff ridiculed on here.
We are truly fooked
[Post edited 3 Oct 2020 17:15]
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If you think the scientific community is unanimous in its acceptance of our Covid rules, try again. Still can't believe the amount of whinging on here when you folk have got what you want - seemingly interminable rules and regulations, all signposted for your credulous convenience. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:30 - Oct 3 with 928 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:38 - Oct 3 by Glossolalia |
Keep fretting pointlessly you lot. But just remember from outside your little bubbles of hyperbolic fear lies the bigger picture - a country that must reopen for the well and able to prosper and protect. Because whether you want it or not, we will soon be economically duty-bound to reopen fully. We cashed our chips in with a knee-jerk full lockdown in March (something that should have been reserved for the winter months). That can't and won't happen again for many reasons.
I sincerely hope Tom Diabetes, Dick Cholesterol and Harry Obese get the warnings this disease proffers. Something tells me there are a few wheezing blimps on here. You reap what you sow, eventually - Covid or otherwise. Thankfully, no amount of red tape can stop that.
[Post edited 3 Oct 2020 17:45]
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Do you realise how interlinked Tom, Dick and Harry are with the rest of society?
Not to mention the top 20 crossfit athlete who can't work 6 months later, or the rugby player who spent 9 days on a ventilator in Morriston hospital with covid are.
They are people I know. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:34 - Oct 3 with 927 views | shingle |
| Coronavirus mortality on 23:54 - Oct 2 by controversial_jack |
Don't those sick and old people matter? |
Yep but so do the people not having diagnosis and treatment for the many other serious illnesses, just found out today a seven year old from my village has had his Cancer op postponed twice now. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:44 - Oct 3 with 913 views | Glossolalia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:30 - Oct 3 by Scotia |
Do you realise how interlinked Tom, Dick and Harry are with the rest of society?
Not to mention the top 20 crossfit athlete who can't work 6 months later, or the rugby player who spent 9 days on a ventilator in Morriston hospital with covid are.
They are people I know. |
Anomalies. Like we find with all diseases, unfortunately. Child cancer, sudden-death syndrome, hidden heart problems, need I go on. It's tragic but why must some act like Covid is the only strain capable of this.
I'm fully aware of the walking ill and unhealthy we have among us. Too entwined and numerous. If you missed my point I'll reiterate - I hope this is the proverbial kick up the backside the lazy, glutinous populous need. I have no sympathy.
Rest assured, this grossly unnatural lockdown is equally insidious economically, and as such unsustainable on all fronts. It is destined to fail and I relish its demise, as do the majority, from experience. So don't get too comfortable. Be well all. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 18:46]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 18:45 - Oct 3 with 908 views | Andy1300 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:34 - Oct 3 by shingle |
Yep but so do the people not having diagnosis and treatment for the many other serious illnesses, just found out today a seven year old from my village has had his Cancer op postponed twice now. |
Shocking isn’t it!
Surely sense must prevail, obviously anyone Ill without covid now seem to be second class citizens |  |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 18:53 - Oct 3 with 904 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:44 - Oct 3 by Glossolalia |
Anomalies. Like we find with all diseases, unfortunately. Child cancer, sudden-death syndrome, hidden heart problems, need I go on. It's tragic but why must some act like Covid is the only strain capable of this.
I'm fully aware of the walking ill and unhealthy we have among us. Too entwined and numerous. If you missed my point I'll reiterate - I hope this is the proverbial kick up the backside the lazy, glutinous populous need. I have no sympathy.
Rest assured, this grossly unnatural lockdown is equally insidious economically, and as such unsustainable on all fronts. It is destined to fail and I relish its demise, as do the majority, from experience. So don't get too comfortable. Be well all. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 18:46]
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Pompous rubbish. I haven't missed your point, what's your BMi? | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:03 - Oct 3 with 899 views | Glossolalia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:53 - Oct 3 by Scotia |
Pompous rubbish. I haven't missed your point, what's your BMi? |
I'm genuinely hoping for a nationwide improvement of the nation's health, and you call it pompous? Incredible. Perhaps a tad naive, I'll admit. It's a silver lining many hope will come true - a wholesale change in our mindset towards healthy living, as a result of this pandemic. Especially our respiratory health and CV system.
What else could possibly be pompous? What I say about other illnesses is true, and as the ONS death statistics prove, Covid is even more likely to kill older people than most other illnesses. It's killing the 'right' demographic in the main.
What has my BMI got to do with it? I'm healthy. Could easily be unhealthy but I've made decisions to improve my health and the health of others around me. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 19:09]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 19:33 - Oct 3 with 864 views | DJack |
Associated information for those that missed it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54371559 | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 19:34 - Oct 3 with 859 views | onehunglow |
You do not catch cancer,you do Covid.
You can avoid getting Covid,you can't with cancer. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 19:37 - Oct 3 with 857 views | Glossolalia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:34 - Oct 3 by onehunglow |
You do not catch cancer,you do Covid.
You can avoid getting Covid,you can't with cancer. |
Can't avoid getting cancer?! 😂 Shat the bed there pal. Using a literary device (antimetabole) to shoehorn something patently untrue is a terrible use of English. Gash. [Post edited 3 Oct 2020 19:40]
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