| Coronavirus mortality 23:32 - Oct 2 with 14597 views | Professor |
Let’s put a true perspective on this. 99.5% of people survive. Well maybe, though probably closer to 99%. Imagine a full house at the Liberty.
Imagine as you go out a line of 120 people (maybe 240). They are executed.
That is a 0.5% mortality rate.
It’s not a binary disease either. More will have long term illness.
Just think about that.
This is not supporting a lockdown or any other specific intervention. Just a reality check. By the way flu has a 0.1% mortality rate. |  | | |  |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:33 - Oct 4 with 928 views | controversial_jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 09:10 - Oct 4 by Andy1300 |
Best the nhs start treating other people who are suffering due to not getting their treatment then.
It’s disgusting what they are doing to these patients. [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 12:58]
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Yes, let's expose the NHS workers to the virus, so they can all go sick and the cycle starts again. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:39 - Oct 4 with 903 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:33 - Oct 4 by controversial_jack |
Yes, let's expose the NHS workers to the virus, so they can all go sick and the cycle starts again. |
Where did he say that? | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:54 - Oct 4 with 900 views | jack2jack |
Can someone explain this.Four days before the country was put into lockdown.This is straight from the .Gov website and I quote.
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK. |  | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 12:04 - Oct 4 with 891 views | Catullus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:54 - Oct 4 by jack2jack |
Can someone explain this.Four days before the country was put into lockdown.This is straight from the .Gov website and I quote.
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK. |
That's only 3 days after the national lockdown started. A mistake, not been updated? Who knows?
Do you have a link to that page? Or has it changed? [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 12:06]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 12:15 - Oct 4 with 881 views | jack2jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 12:04 - Oct 4 by Catullus |
That's only 3 days after the national lockdown started. A mistake, not been updated? Who knows?
Do you have a link to that page? Or has it changed? [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 12:06]
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Just google covid 19 downgraded.
Also covid 19 is listed 24th of infectious diseases, way behind AIDS, Eboli, CY disease etc, etc.
Just saying. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:01 - Oct 4 with 861 views | Andy1300 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:22 - Oct 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
It is due to total incompetence of the government in preparing for a pandemic, they were warned numerous times.
It has been made much worse by the total incompetence of the government and the NHS management in not designating COVID free hospitals that would continue treating life threatening illnesses.
That is also where the early testing should have been concentrated, (along with NHS staff) to ensure that they remained COVID free.
During the period between waves they still did not take the opportunity to re-arrange hospital use in an efficient manner.
You have a minority of the NHS front line workers working themselves in to early graves on the COVID ICU wards and the rest twiddling their fingers a lot of the time.
At least some procedures and treatments are being carried out, but the fear induced by the government has prevented a lot of needy cases coming forward. |
Or being turned away from some hospitals because they are not treating patients that are non covid.
I think we can all se that they should have used these field hospitals for covid patients, this would have allowed all other patients to have been treated. |  |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:02 - Oct 4 with 859 views | Andy1300 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:39 - Oct 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
Where did he say that? |
Exactly, where did I say that? | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:08 - Oct 4 with 851 views | Andy1300 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 12:15 - Oct 4 by jack2jack |
Just google covid 19 downgraded.
Also covid 19 is listed 24th of infectious diseases, way behind AIDS, Eboli, CY disease etc, etc.
Just saying. |
Here you go, I’m sure it’s not been updated since because it really isn’t in need of updating!
Surely something this important would be updated ASAP
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid
Sorry, should have quoted Catallus [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:10]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:41 - Oct 4 with 829 views | majorraglan |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:22 - Oct 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
It is due to total incompetence of the government in preparing for a pandemic, they were warned numerous times.
It has been made much worse by the total incompetence of the government and the NHS management in not designating COVID free hospitals that would continue treating life threatening illnesses.
That is also where the early testing should have been concentrated, (along with NHS staff) to ensure that they remained COVID free.
During the period between waves they still did not take the opportunity to re-arrange hospital use in an efficient manner.
You have a minority of the NHS front line workers working themselves in to early graves on the COVID ICU wards and the rest twiddling their fingers a lot of the time.
At least some procedures and treatments are being carried out, but the fear induced by the government has prevented a lot of needy cases coming forward. |
There is no doubt in my mind the government weren’t preparing or prepared for the pandemic. The focus of their attention was elsewhere and we were woefully underprepared. Lessons from previous exercises had not been learned, some of this predates Boris, but it was his party that were in government.
In terms of non covid hospitals I can see why they didn’t initially didn’t do that because the images we were seeing from Italy were of people dying in corridors etc and they feared the NHS would be swamped. Also, they didn’t have enough staff, they were asking ex staff to return etc to deal with the numbers, brining part qualified student nurses so coping with huge numbers of patients re Covid and “business as usual” was going to be an enormous ask.
After the first wave subsided, then they should have looked at getting treatments up and running, twin track hospitals etc, but a lot of that is subject to funding being made available and that is down to the Government. The NHS is resuming treatments, in addition to the Covid19 tests some centres have separate areas for drive through pre medical checks for chemo patients etc. The fear is seeing what’s happened in Weston, RCT and a hospital in Manchester where patents have become infected and passed away.
Testing was woeful at the beginning, it’s better now but it isn’t great now, the government should have gone to University Labs and other lab service providers to increase capacity as the situation was developing.
Had we been better prepared, I think We’d be much further down the road to providing a great variety of much needed treatments. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:42 - Oct 4 with 828 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:41 - Oct 4 by majorraglan |
There is no doubt in my mind the government weren’t preparing or prepared for the pandemic. The focus of their attention was elsewhere and we were woefully underprepared. Lessons from previous exercises had not been learned, some of this predates Boris, but it was his party that were in government.
In terms of non covid hospitals I can see why they didn’t initially didn’t do that because the images we were seeing from Italy were of people dying in corridors etc and they feared the NHS would be swamped. Also, they didn’t have enough staff, they were asking ex staff to return etc to deal with the numbers, brining part qualified student nurses so coping with huge numbers of patients re Covid and “business as usual” was going to be an enormous ask.
After the first wave subsided, then they should have looked at getting treatments up and running, twin track hospitals etc, but a lot of that is subject to funding being made available and that is down to the Government. The NHS is resuming treatments, in addition to the Covid19 tests some centres have separate areas for drive through pre medical checks for chemo patients etc. The fear is seeing what’s happened in Weston, RCT and a hospital in Manchester where patents have become infected and passed away.
Testing was woeful at the beginning, it’s better now but it isn’t great now, the government should have gone to University Labs and other lab service providers to increase capacity as the situation was developing.
Had we been better prepared, I think We’d be much further down the road to providing a great variety of much needed treatments. |
Excellent post | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:46 - Oct 4 with 821 views | pikeypaul |
Professor, my arse.and lets be honest someone using that username must life up his own arse.
Pretentious or what.
Covid fatality is not random,so to compare it with randomly executing people outside the Liberty is pathetic.
The fact is that 75% of fatalities are 75 or over and 90% of them have pre existing conditions.
He is just another lefty trying to politicise the pandemic and like the rest of them very happy its come about,and the worse the numbers the happier the scum are.
Shameless scum.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:56]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:52 - Oct 4 with 819 views | Professor |
NCIDs have high mortality rates. ADCP make a decision based on transmission and likely mortality. SARS for example has a 10% and MERS 35%. SARS CoV2 is 0.5-1%. The problem is that it is more transmissible and causes enough mortality and morbidity to be a problem. To an extent we are lucky it is not as nasty as MERS or SARS CoV1. Some of the others on the list are different gravy. Marburg 40-70%’mortality, Nipah around 50% and Ebola up to 90% | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:15 - Oct 4 with 809 views | jack2jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:52 - Oct 4 by Professor |
NCIDs have high mortality rates. ADCP make a decision based on transmission and likely mortality. SARS for example has a 10% and MERS 35%. SARS CoV2 is 0.5-1%. The problem is that it is more transmissible and causes enough mortality and morbidity to be a problem. To an extent we are lucky it is not as nasty as MERS or SARS CoV1. Some of the others on the list are different gravy. Marburg 40-70%’mortality, Nipah around 50% and Ebola up to 90% |
So is it as bad as they say,let's say for 99% of the population
Meanwhile the Country,jobs, businesses etc etc etc etc are going down the shitter.
Theres something not right with this picture, but of course all the conspiracy theorists are shut down.
We are heading for much worse than this virus, and it's coming soon. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:19 - Oct 4 with 803 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:46 - Oct 4 by pikeypaul |
Professor, my arse.and lets be honest someone using that username must life up his own arse.
Pretentious or what.
Covid fatality is not random,so to compare it with randomly executing people outside the Liberty is pathetic.
The fact is that 75% of fatalities are 75 or over and 90% of them have pre existing conditions.
He is just another lefty trying to politicise the pandemic and like the rest of them very happy its come about,and the worse the numbers the happier the scum are.
Shameless scum.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:56]
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Its amusing you can't work out what he's saying. |  | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:22 - Oct 4 with 801 views | onehunglow |
So...we open up the country,stadia ,workplaces,restaurants ,pubs all hours and then our borders to tourists so it saves jobs.?. No lockdown or restrictions just like Sweden then. Difference there of course they dont have the vile drinking culture we have where fighting and vomitting are par for the course followed up by assaulting wife/husband/on/daughter or family dog. Get a fookn grip mun.
Sadly,even now ,we really havent grasped what is happening;its beyond our way of thinking.
We are fecked ,folks. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:31 - Oct 4 with 791 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:15 - Oct 4 by jack2jack |
So is it as bad as they say,let's say for 99% of the population
Meanwhile the Country,jobs, businesses etc etc etc etc are going down the shitter.
Theres something not right with this picture, but of course all the conspiracy theorists are shut down.
We are heading for much worse than this virus, and it's coming soon. |
I hate to disillusion you two, but the current overall Mortality rate in the UK for those with COVID-19 is 8.82%, it was 15.6% before the mass testing started.
ie 42,317 deaths from 480,017 cases.
For the USA it is 2.82%.
214,280 deaths from 7,601,182 cases.
I am afraid the Prof is wrong again, for a scientist he doesn't do simple arithmetic very well.
Of course for the whole population it is 42,317/66,000,000*100 = 0.064% [Post edited 5 Oct 2020 8:57]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:33 - Oct 4 with 792 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:46 - Oct 4 by pikeypaul |
Professor, my arse.and lets be honest someone using that username must life up his own arse.
Pretentious or what.
Covid fatality is not random,so to compare it with randomly executing people outside the Liberty is pathetic.
The fact is that 75% of fatalities are 75 or over and 90% of them have pre existing conditions.
He is just another lefty trying to politicise the pandemic and like the rest of them very happy its come about,and the worse the numbers the happier the scum are.
Shameless scum.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:56]
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For someone who has spent the last 30 odd years working to reduce the burden of infection on people and livestock that is quite an insult. It’s not random. But who gives any of the right to decide who lives or dies. What you fail to see, as people like Raglan,
scotia etc have grasped, is that unchecked the level of infection would threaten our health system to the point of collapse. Then as Onehunglow says we are all fecked. It’s not political you fool, it’s the facts of a pandemic. And for all you Sweden screamers, wave two just picking up there now too. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:09 - Oct 4 with 773 views | Nortbankboy |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:33 - Oct 4 by Professor |
For someone who has spent the last 30 odd years working to reduce the burden of infection on people and livestock that is quite an insult. It’s not random. But who gives any of the right to decide who lives or dies. What you fail to see, as people like Raglan,
scotia etc have grasped, is that unchecked the level of infection would threaten our health system to the point of collapse. Then as Onehunglow says we are all fecked. It’s not political you fool, it’s the facts of a pandemic. And for all you Sweden screamers, wave two just picking up there now too. |
I thought you were vulnerable when you were over 60? | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:15 - Oct 4 with 769 views | jack2jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:22 - Oct 4 by onehunglow |
So...we open up the country,stadia ,workplaces,restaurants ,pubs all hours and then our borders to tourists so it saves jobs.?. No lockdown or restrictions just like Sweden then. Difference there of course they dont have the vile drinking culture we have where fighting and vomitting are par for the course followed up by assaulting wife/husband/on/daughter or family dog. Get a fookn grip mun.
Sadly,even now ,we really havent grasped what is happening;its beyond our way of thinking.
We are fecked ,folks. |
Now your just being obtuse.You are right of course,folk need to get a grip | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:18 - Oct 4 with 763 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:33 - Oct 4 by Professor |
For someone who has spent the last 30 odd years working to reduce the burden of infection on people and livestock that is quite an insult. It’s not random. But who gives any of the right to decide who lives or dies. What you fail to see, as people like Raglan,
scotia etc have grasped, is that unchecked the level of infection would threaten our health system to the point of collapse. Then as Onehunglow says we are all fecked. It’s not political you fool, it’s the facts of a pandemic. And for all you Sweden screamers, wave two just picking up there now too. |
Except of course that the hospitalisations now are nowwhere near the same percentage of cases as in the first wave, as they were only testing admissions.
We have 6 months of experience with treating the desease.
We have thousands of extra beds and should have sufficient PPE and ICU equipment.
Johnson has panicked, instead of insisting on Social Distancing, which basically worked the first time around he is using lockdowns and ridiculous rules as a club to bludgeon the public in to submission.
At massive personal, health and financial costs.
Even his own party are questioning his actions.
He has done none of the things needed to re-establish a good NHS service for everybody who needs it and not just COVID patients. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:21 - Oct 4 with 767 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:09 - Oct 4 by Nortbankboy |
I thought you were vulnerable when you were over 60? |
Increases past 40 incrementally with age. Not unusual for many infections or indeed cancer and other conditions. Regulation of cells deteriorates with age -which means malignant cells are not programmed to die and can multiply to cause cancers.
The effect on the immune system is our cells respond less well and often the important regulatory responses (mainly mediated by a type of T lymphocytes) work less well and inflammation is poorly controlled-which along with micro vascular clots in the lungs is what kills people.
But should that be a choice we make for people?. Or as libertarians want lock up the vulnerable to let society thrive. Except shielding is imperfect and you deny others what you have yourself. I’m alright jack or society? We messed up in the spring and have not learned. We can’t keep locking down so distancing, masks and above all personal responsibilities are needed. We may not be able to do some things. We may have to chose between education or pubs. None of this is easy and there is no clear right way,. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 15:25 - Oct 4 with 765 views | DJack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 08:45 - Oct 4 by Glossolalia |
I'm glad you do - keep it up because there isn't much else going on! BMI is notoriously limited in its use, especially with weight trainers. I presume you carry more muscle than the average person, as I do.
The issue with your believed percentage of hospitalisation is that it only takes age into account. Say nothing of overall weight and body fat; respiratory health; genetics and hereditary illnesses; ethnicity. I never suggested my health makes me invulnerable, but it has reason to give me confidence. I can't and won't live in fear, nor should the vast majority. A study found obese people are four times as likely to be hospitalised. Hence my wish for people to make more effort in looking after themselves.
I did the NHS BMI online test. At close to 10% body fat (32'' waist) my BMI of 24 elicits this message -'You are in the healthy weight range, but at the higher end. Keep an eye on your weight and try to stay in the healthy range'. Says a lot about its limitations, or perhaps it says more about our misconceptions of what is a healthy weight. Donald Trump is medically obese, but I wonder how many would classify him as 'a bit overweight'.
You last sentence sums up this quandary perfectly, and is unanswerable to a degree.
I'm done debating this as there's no correct answer. I've learnt a few things, and hopefully a few have learnt about the folly of simply applying dry facts to a nuanced world. [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 8:57]
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Glosso I've read that Donald always buys suits too large for him to hide the weight - hence why he looks scruffy for someone so affluent. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 18:57 - Oct 4 with 717 views | Jack_Kass |
Can't educate pork. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 18:59 - Oct 4 with 715 views | controversial_jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:46 - Oct 4 by pikeypaul |
Professor, my arse.and lets be honest someone using that username must life up his own arse.
Pretentious or what.
Covid fatality is not random,so to compare it with randomly executing people outside the Liberty is pathetic.
The fact is that 75% of fatalities are 75 or over and 90% of them have pre existing conditions.
He is just another lefty trying to politicise the pandemic and like the rest of them very happy its come about,and the worse the numbers the happier the scum are.
Shameless scum.
OUT
AFLI [Post edited 4 Oct 2020 13:56]
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So that makes it acceptable? The old and sick don't count? | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:31 - Oct 4 with 706 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:59 - Oct 4 by controversial_jack |
So that makes it acceptable? The old and sick don't count? |
Not for some. But of course they do | | | |
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