| Money being moved around? 09:40 - Jan 13 with 9904 views | Chief |
Poster seems to think 5million has been sent over to America from the football club:
Anyone make any sense of it? |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 13:54 - Jan 13 with 1307 views | Dr_Winston |
| Money being moved around? on 13:22 - Jan 13 by Joe_bradshaw |
If they declare a dividend they,
1. Can only pay dividends out of profits.
2. Pay the dividend to all shareholders including the Trust.
I suspect this is some sort of technical stuff to do with Silverstein’s loan. Maybe he’s been paid back?
I stress that I don’t know and am guessing. |
Try getting people to understand points 1 & 2.
FWIW I tend to agree with you on it being technical stuff. £5m is the figure that's been mooted in terms of loans/investments. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Money being moved around? on 14:35 - Jan 13 with 1256 views | pikeypaul |
It could be anything, but it needs explaining and if they have nothing to hide then I am sure they will be open and transparent why the club funds are being transferred to the states.
The sell outs and yanks have taken an us and them mentality against the fans since their rape and asset stripping of the club began.
You only have to look at their spokesman on this forum Resolvenswan1 arrogance and contempt for the fans in his earlier replies in this thread. He sounds exactly like Uxbridge did a few years back and in hindsight we have all seen how pathetically wrong he turned out to be. [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 14:49]
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| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 13 with 1226 views | Catullus |
| Money being moved around? on 13:45 - Jan 13 by Badlands |
Some investment - shares bought for c£66 million now worth c£35million.
The equivalent of getting a job paying £32,000 a year after tax but only being able to draw on £17,000.
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Investments always carry risks, especially when you invest in a football club. I have said before I think the Yanks were sold a pup. They thought they were getting a stable EPL club but in reality we were a club on the brink. A weakened squad because of bad spending and mismanagement. A club that looked Ok from the outside but was falling apart inside, all this Jenkins and the others knew and they wanted to cash in while they still could. That's why they kept the trust out of it, with the trust involved the sale probably would have taken longer to complete and they needed it done before the clubs problems became too obvious to the Yanks.
Even so, according to the commentator the other matchday we have taken over 50 million in, in transfer fees, and Cooper has only spent 2 million.
I don't know if there's profit or how much profit that equates to though.
Like others I am guessing, we may never know the full facts. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:19 - Jan 13 with 1207 views | londonlisa2001 |
Ive posted the same on the other site so to save time, copied on to here.
It’s just an agreement to repay, after 5 years, the amount loaned to the club by Swansea Football (the owners) if the convertible debt hasn’t by that point been converted into shares.
If a person or entity makes a loan, there’s an agreement to repay it. If it’s a convertible loan, it can be converted in to equity or it needs to be repaid.
It was widely reported that an amount had been loaned to the club by Silverstein, and an additional amount loaned to the club by the majority owners to match the Silverstein loan. In both cases the loans are convertible (they can be swapped for equity at a valuation established at the point the loan was made). If that doesn’t happen within, in this case, 5 years, the loans need to be repaid.
The club (as with every company) needs to file all charges at companies house (that, in practical terms, means anything that has a call on future cash flows or income). It is done so that anyone reading the accounts knows if any of the money in the future is already ‘spoken for’. Without registering this information a reader could imagine, for example, that if the club sold a player in the future, they’d have money available to spend. This just points out that any money available in the future is only after these loans have been repaid, unless there’s been a conversion.
In short, nothing to see here that was not already known, and certainly not what is being suggested by the original tweet. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 15:29 - Jan 13 with 1185 views | Thornburyswan |
| Money being moved around? on 15:19 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
Ive posted the same on the other site so to save time, copied on to here.
It’s just an agreement to repay, after 5 years, the amount loaned to the club by Swansea Football (the owners) if the convertible debt hasn’t by that point been converted into shares.
If a person or entity makes a loan, there’s an agreement to repay it. If it’s a convertible loan, it can be converted in to equity or it needs to be repaid.
It was widely reported that an amount had been loaned to the club by Silverstein, and an additional amount loaned to the club by the majority owners to match the Silverstein loan. In both cases the loans are convertible (they can be swapped for equity at a valuation established at the point the loan was made). If that doesn’t happen within, in this case, 5 years, the loans need to be repaid.
The club (as with every company) needs to file all charges at companies house (that, in practical terms, means anything that has a call on future cash flows or income). It is done so that anyone reading the accounts knows if any of the money in the future is already ‘spoken for’. Without registering this information a reader could imagine, for example, that if the club sold a player in the future, they’d have money available to spend. This just points out that any money available in the future is only after these loans have been repaid, unless there’s been a conversion.
In short, nothing to see here that was not already known, and certainly not what is being suggested by the original tweet. |
Thanks Lisa - so more of a future contingent liability | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 15:29 - Jan 13 with 1185 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 15:19 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
Ive posted the same on the other site so to save time, copied on to here.
It’s just an agreement to repay, after 5 years, the amount loaned to the club by Swansea Football (the owners) if the convertible debt hasn’t by that point been converted into shares.
If a person or entity makes a loan, there’s an agreement to repay it. If it’s a convertible loan, it can be converted in to equity or it needs to be repaid.
It was widely reported that an amount had been loaned to the club by Silverstein, and an additional amount loaned to the club by the majority owners to match the Silverstein loan. In both cases the loans are convertible (they can be swapped for equity at a valuation established at the point the loan was made). If that doesn’t happen within, in this case, 5 years, the loans need to be repaid.
The club (as with every company) needs to file all charges at companies house (that, in practical terms, means anything that has a call on future cash flows or income). It is done so that anyone reading the accounts knows if any of the money in the future is already ‘spoken for’. Without registering this information a reader could imagine, for example, that if the club sold a player in the future, they’d have money available to spend. This just points out that any money available in the future is only after these loans have been repaid, unless there’s been a conversion.
In short, nothing to see here that was not already known, and certainly not what is being suggested by the original tweet. |
Great thanks for the information.
Do you know if this figure and document relates to one of the loans (ie Silverstein's or K&L's) or does it relate to the total of both the loans? | |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:47 - Jan 13 with 1160 views | pikeypaul |
| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 13 by Catullus |
Investments always carry risks, especially when you invest in a football club. I have said before I think the Yanks were sold a pup. They thought they were getting a stable EPL club but in reality we were a club on the brink. A weakened squad because of bad spending and mismanagement. A club that looked Ok from the outside but was falling apart inside, all this Jenkins and the others knew and they wanted to cash in while they still could. That's why they kept the trust out of it, with the trust involved the sale probably would have taken longer to complete and they needed it done before the clubs problems became too obvious to the Yanks.
Even so, according to the commentator the other matchday we have taken over 50 million in, in transfer fees, and Cooper has only spent 2 million.
I don't know if there's profit or how much profit that equates to though.
Like others I am guessing, we may never know the full facts. |
add on the best part of £100 million parachute payments.
£42.6 million 2018/19
£34.9 million 2019/20
And approx £20 million this season | |
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| Money being moved around? on 16:05 - Jan 13 with 1140 views | vetchonian |
| Money being moved around? on 15:47 - Jan 13 by pikeypaul |
add on the best part of £100 million parachute payments.
£42.6 million 2018/19
£34.9 million 2019/20
And approx £20 million this season |
Why do people persist in these ridiculous theories about the Yanks taking monies out of the club
How much does it cost to run the club?
We had very little income coming in compared to our outgoings prior to the recent redundancies and restructure.
There has been no siphoning off of cash as there is none there!
It has been much documented in the past the wage bill ....not just that of players
some simple maths Gate revenue per year aprrox = £10M ( 20 K seats at average of £500/season) so that alone will not cover the clubs bills, we had income from Sky which has reduced as no longer in the PL .Dont forget thdere has been no matchday revenue generated as no supporters allowed into the ground....plus so many have boycotted putting monrey into the Yanks pockets.If as many suggest our majority owners have had their hands in the till and recovered their "investment" I am sure they would have been long gone by now as currently I wouldimagine the club is a great big black hole swallowing cash like mad!!!! | |
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| Money being moved around? on 16:15 - Jan 13 with 1129 views | Dr_Winston |
| Money being moved around? on 16:05 - Jan 13 by vetchonian |
Why do people persist in these ridiculous theories about the Yanks taking monies out of the club
How much does it cost to run the club?
We had very little income coming in compared to our outgoings prior to the recent redundancies and restructure.
There has been no siphoning off of cash as there is none there!
It has been much documented in the past the wage bill ....not just that of players
some simple maths Gate revenue per year aprrox = £10M ( 20 K seats at average of £500/season) so that alone will not cover the clubs bills, we had income from Sky which has reduced as no longer in the PL .Dont forget thdere has been no matchday revenue generated as no supporters allowed into the ground....plus so many have boycotted putting monrey into the Yanks pockets.If as many suggest our majority owners have had their hands in the till and recovered their "investment" I am sure they would have been long gone by now as currently I wouldimagine the club is a great big black hole swallowing cash like mad!!!! |
The club was effectively bankrupt upon relegation from the Premier League. Its outgoings and future commitments far exceeded its income.
Through slashing the cost base and player sales we've basically righted ourselves, although the current Covid situation hasn't helped us (or all clubs). We're no longer in any serious danger, but we still need to be careful.
Obviously there will always be those who can't or won't want to believe that. They'll cling to the "Rape and asset strip" stories despite there being not even a scrap of evidence to suggest that it's happening Vs plenty to suggest that it's not. A bit like Trump supporters and election stealing.
That's not even entering into the legalities of taking money out of the club with regards other shareholders that Joe Bradshaw covered. [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 16:17]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Money being moved around? on 16:17 - Jan 13 with 1124 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 15:29 - Jan 13 by Thornburyswan |
Thanks Lisa - so more of a future contingent liability |
Same effect.
Loan gets made. It needs repaying. In this case, one repayment option is conversion to shares. The other is repaying the money. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 16:19 - Jan 13 with 1121 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 15:29 - Jan 13 by Chief |
Great thanks for the information.
Do you know if this figure and document relates to one of the loans (ie Silverstein's or K&L's) or does it relate to the total of both the loans? |
The document states it is to repay Swansea Football LLC so that’s the majority owner. Not Silverstein who is separate from Swansea Football LLC. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 17:32 - Jan 13 with 1077 views | Catullus |
So after all that it's a case of...move on , nothing to see here.
No money taken, diverted or eve paid in dividends just a loan to be repaid, basically.
Some people will never believe the Yanks aren't robbing the club but like I basically said earlier, it doesn't pay them to run us into the ground because they'd be ruining their own investment.
They want us to succeed. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 17:49 - Jan 13 with 1064 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 17:32 - Jan 13 by Catullus |
So after all that it's a case of...move on , nothing to see here.
No money taken, diverted or eve paid in dividends just a loan to be repaid, basically.
Some people will never believe the Yanks aren't robbing the club but like I basically said earlier, it doesn't pay them to run us into the ground because they'd be ruining their own investment.
They want us to succeed. |
Wise to be vigilant though? | |
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| Money being moved around? on 17:56 - Jan 13 with 1060 views | thornabyswan |
| Money being moved around? on 17:32 - Jan 13 by Catullus |
So after all that it's a case of...move on , nothing to see here.
No money taken, diverted or eve paid in dividends just a loan to be repaid, basically.
Some people will never believe the Yanks aren't robbing the club but like I basically said earlier, it doesn't pay them to run us into the ground because they'd be ruining their own investment.
They want us to succeed. |
Yes it is a bit tedious the club is being run well since Jenkins went Birch Winter Cooper Marsh the players are giving us a fighting chance of promotion.
Some just cant wait to rip into the club at any opportunity. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:00 - Jan 13 with 1053 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
I am grateful to the US for their loan which I understand is at a low rate of interest. It is done to help the club in their hour of need. I still believe it allowed Winter to squeeze a bit more out of Spurs for the Rodon transfer. £7m to £15m (eventually) was sound work.
Such words will make some posters angry and possibly queezy but I care not a jot about that. The US people might even make some good money out of it (it is a reasonable calculation to suggest Coopers boys can get back to the PL in five years). I hope they do. I want to see Welsh owners taking the same risks and making the same gains.
Burnley sold for £200m do not forget that. 21% of £200m is £42m. FORTY TWO MILLION. Holy moley with bells on. The fans should be very grateful to the people who set up the Trust. Go with the flow and keep your nose clean and the rewards are enormous in the right hands. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:03 - Jan 13 with 1048 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 18:00 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am grateful to the US for their loan which I understand is at a low rate of interest. It is done to help the club in their hour of need. I still believe it allowed Winter to squeeze a bit more out of Spurs for the Rodon transfer. £7m to £15m (eventually) was sound work.
Such words will make some posters angry and possibly queezy but I care not a jot about that. The US people might even make some good money out of it (it is a reasonable calculation to suggest Coopers boys can get back to the PL in five years). I hope they do. I want to see Welsh owners taking the same risks and making the same gains.
Burnley sold for £200m do not forget that. 21% of £200m is £42m. FORTY TWO MILLION. Holy moley with bells on. The fans should be very grateful to the people who set up the Trust. Go with the flow and keep your nose clean and the rewards are enormous in the right hands. |
You can tart it up anyway you want.
But the 11 million we received for Rodon was a terrible price. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:06 - Jan 13 with 1038 views | Dr_Winston |
It was the only price on offer.
So, we turn it down and keep Rodon and last season's squad, or accept it and use the cash to strengthen the squad currently sitting in second place.
Crap price or not, taking it is looking like the smart move. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:07 - Jan 13 with 1037 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 18:03 - Jan 13 by Chief |
You can tart it up anyway you want.
But the 11 million we received for Rodon was a terrible price. |
If he is as good as you think the £15m is a shoe in. Spurs offered £7m and no one else were in the market. Winter squeezed out another £8m by presuabaly threatening to walk away. Birch would have seen the £10m? Yankee convertable loan and advised Levi Swansea might be serious. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:13 - Jan 13 with 1023 views | swancity |
| Money being moved around? on 18:03 - Jan 13 by Chief |
You can tart it up anyway you want.
But the 11 million we received for Rodon was a terrible price. |
It wasn’t
He’s only played 50/60 games. Good prospect of course but he is not the finished article not by a long way | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:16 - Jan 13 with 1017 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 18:07 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
If he is as good as you think the £15m is a shoe in. Spurs offered £7m and no one else were in the market. Winter squeezed out another £8m by presuabaly threatening to walk away. Birch would have seen the £10m? Yankee convertable loan and advised Levi Swansea might be serious. |
If the fees not up scratch, you decline and we keep the best defender in the division in our battle for promotion.
He didn't squeeze out 8mill. We're only guaranteed 11mill. And by the rate he isn't playing games there's a decent chance we'll never see the extra 4mill.
With this extra 10mill that the Americans have kindly loaned us, considering Winter himself said we were not in any debt, I fail to see why the sale wws needed
Its definitely not a sale to be celebrated for SCFC. Terrible business. Not only a class defender down but we've been ladened with 10mill plus of debt too.
Just like your Burnley analogy - imagine rhe going rate for Rodon in the Premier league. These murky loans gained us nothing | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:27 - Jan 13 with 1004 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 18:16 - Jan 13 by Chief |
If the fees not up scratch, you decline and we keep the best defender in the division in our battle for promotion.
He didn't squeeze out 8mill. We're only guaranteed 11mill. And by the rate he isn't playing games there's a decent chance we'll never see the extra 4mill.
With this extra 10mill that the Americans have kindly loaned us, considering Winter himself said we were not in any debt, I fail to see why the sale wws needed
Its definitely not a sale to be celebrated for SCFC. Terrible business. Not only a class defender down but we've been ladened with 10mill plus of debt too.
Just like your Burnley analogy - imagine rhe going rate for Rodon in the Premier league. These murky loans gained us nothing |
Not "murky" at all. The loan was made because Winter asked for it and needed it at least for a scenario where Rodon was not sold. Swansea have had no fans for the whole of the season. Te US people might not even ask for it back and simply convert it into shares.
Winter has to plan ahead and beware of cash flow issues. That is his job with his team. You using selective quotes of "no debt" is misleading.
Swansea are a classy defender down but three classy defenders up plus £11m+ with money available for a forward and a no 10. There has been no deterioration in Swansea's defending since Rodon left. Rodon is a great guy but was still running down his deal and may not have wanted to sign a new one. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:36 - Jan 13 with 995 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 18:27 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Not "murky" at all. The loan was made because Winter asked for it and needed it at least for a scenario where Rodon was not sold. Swansea have had no fans for the whole of the season. Te US people might not even ask for it back and simply convert it into shares.
Winter has to plan ahead and beware of cash flow issues. That is his job with his team. You using selective quotes of "no debt" is misleading.
Swansea are a classy defender down but three classy defenders up plus £11m+ with money available for a forward and a no 10. There has been no deterioration in Swansea's defending since Rodon left. Rodon is a great guy but was still running down his deal and may not have wanted to sign a new one. |
The upshot ultimately is. Ok i just about accept 1 of the 2 - (although im dubious due to winters own words) to see us through Covid (although we're still getting tv money, parachute, season ticket&streaming sales as well as sponsorship remember):
1 - We under sell our most valuable asset to tie us over.
2 - We take on debt&another mouth to feed to tie us over.
Please do not try and suggest we needed to do both to bring in some frees and loans.
If we reinvest a decent chunk in this window to really bolster our promotion push, I'll reevaluate. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:54 - Jan 13 with 980 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 18:00 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am grateful to the US for their loan which I understand is at a low rate of interest. It is done to help the club in their hour of need. I still believe it allowed Winter to squeeze a bit more out of Spurs for the Rodon transfer. £7m to £15m (eventually) was sound work.
Such words will make some posters angry and possibly queezy but I care not a jot about that. The US people might even make some good money out of it (it is a reasonable calculation to suggest Coopers boys can get back to the PL in five years). I hope they do. I want to see Welsh owners taking the same risks and making the same gains.
Burnley sold for £200m do not forget that. 21% of £200m is £42m. FORTY TWO MILLION. Holy moley with bells on. The fans should be very grateful to the people who set up the Trust. Go with the flow and keep your nose clean and the rewards are enormous in the right hands. |
“ which I understand is at a low rate of interest”.
What do you call a low rate of interest at the moment?
In the context of base rate, LIBOR, current U.K. 5 year gilts, commercially available loans, mortgage rates and your assessment of a reasonable risk adjustment for a first priority loan with conversion rights for a controlling ownership?
If you don’t know the answer, then shut up with the incessant propaganda ffs. Anyone who knows anything about finance recognises immediately that you are a complete fraud, but those who don’t may believe your utter rubbish.
Answer this: if the ownership of Swansea Football LLC changes hands, which is what is required to ‘sell the club’ (given Swansea Football LLC has voting rights in excess of 75% over the club), how much money will the Trust receive?
We’ll wait... | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 19:14 - Jan 13 with 956 views | londonlisa2001 |
What a coincidence...
Propaganda boy has logged off.
Complete prat. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 19:30 - Jan 13 with 938 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 18:54 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
“ which I understand is at a low rate of interest”.
What do you call a low rate of interest at the moment?
In the context of base rate, LIBOR, current U.K. 5 year gilts, commercially available loans, mortgage rates and your assessment of a reasonable risk adjustment for a first priority loan with conversion rights for a controlling ownership?
If you don’t know the answer, then shut up with the incessant propaganda ffs. Anyone who knows anything about finance recognises immediately that you are a complete fraud, but those who don’t may believe your utter rubbish.
Answer this: if the ownership of Swansea Football LLC changes hands, which is what is required to ‘sell the club’ (given Swansea Football LLC has voting rights in excess of 75% over the club), how much money will the Trust receive?
We’ll wait... |
Ooofff wow hold on I'd never thought of that.
Are you implying that the holding company could get sold and not neccessarily the 'football club'? | |
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