| Money being moved around? 09:40 - Jan 13 with 9874 views | Chief |
Poster seems to think 5million has been sent over to America from the football club:
Anyone make any sense of it? |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 19:45 - Jan 13 with 1401 views | Garyjack |
| Money being moved around? on 19:30 - Jan 13 by Chief |
Ooofff wow hold on I'd never thought of that.
Are you implying that the holding company could get sold and not neccessarily the 'football club'? |
 You've spoilt all the fun now mun, as Resloven will reply to you with more spin, and ignore Lisa's post. That's how he rolls when he's been rumbled!  |  | | |
| Money being moved around? on 19:55 - Jan 13 with 1374 views | AndyCole |
| Money being moved around? on 18:27 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Not "murky" at all. The loan was made because Winter asked for it and needed it at least for a scenario where Rodon was not sold. Swansea have had no fans for the whole of the season. Te US people might not even ask for it back and simply convert it into shares.
Winter has to plan ahead and beware of cash flow issues. That is his job with his team. You using selective quotes of "no debt" is misleading.
Swansea are a classy defender down but three classy defenders up plus £11m+ with money available for a forward and a no 10. There has been no deterioration in Swansea's defending since Rodon left. Rodon is a great guy but was still running down his deal and may not have wanted to sign a new one. |
Good points. No doubt Winter has picked up the astute financial management baton from Birch and clearly has his finger on the pulse.
The Rodon deal was the right decision at the right time. And we now have one of the best defences in the pyramid with options to kick on. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 19:56 - Jan 13 with 1373 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 19:30 - Jan 13 by Chief |
Ooofff wow hold on I'd never thought of that.
Are you implying that the holding company could get sold and not neccessarily the 'football club'? |
Yes. Of course it could. Unless protections are put in place.
That’s the whole point.
Always has been. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 23:00 - Jan 13 with 1278 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 19:56 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes. Of course it could. Unless protections are put in place.
That’s the whole point.
Always has been. |
No money will go to the Trust of course why should it? The US owners will simply be replaced by other owners owning 69% of the club. The biggest minority owner might not like it but they only ever invested £200k in Swansea City themselves 18 years ago. Why should they have any say in the matter?
The new owners will be subject to the FA s responsible owners rules. This has a less than impressive track record of course. Even more reason for the largest minority shareholder to get its holding down to manageable levels and significant cash in the bank just in case the Wigan scenario happens and the new owners are incompetent. The Trust failed to do this to "protect" the club.
Its now boom or bust for the Trust. It will be exciting. At this point boom is looking more likely. If achieved the club could be worth twice the value of the 2016 sale price with the Trusts value being £42m. Knowing accountacy jargon is not worth a fig with out good old fashioned common sense. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 23:50 - Jan 13 with 1262 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 23:00 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
No money will go to the Trust of course why should it? The US owners will simply be replaced by other owners owning 69% of the club. The biggest minority owner might not like it but they only ever invested £200k in Swansea City themselves 18 years ago. Why should they have any say in the matter?
The new owners will be subject to the FA s responsible owners rules. This has a less than impressive track record of course. Even more reason for the largest minority shareholder to get its holding down to manageable levels and significant cash in the bank just in case the Wigan scenario happens and the new owners are incompetent. The Trust failed to do this to "protect" the club.
Its now boom or bust for the Trust. It will be exciting. At this point boom is looking more likely. If achieved the club could be worth twice the value of the 2016 sale price with the Trusts value being £42m. Knowing accountacy jargon is not worth a fig with out good old fashioned common sense. |
So the holding company could be sold with the Trust getting £nil.
And yet the Trust stake would be worth £42m? Despite someone being able to get full control over the club without buying it?
Your good old fashioned common sense appears to be letting you down a bit doesn’t it?
You haven’t answered the interest rate point btw. You were so adamant as well.
Laughable. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 10:34 - Jan 14 with 1146 views | BillyChong |
| Money being moved around? on 15:19 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
Ive posted the same on the other site so to save time, copied on to here.
It’s just an agreement to repay, after 5 years, the amount loaned to the club by Swansea Football (the owners) if the convertible debt hasn’t by that point been converted into shares.
If a person or entity makes a loan, there’s an agreement to repay it. If it’s a convertible loan, it can be converted in to equity or it needs to be repaid.
It was widely reported that an amount had been loaned to the club by Silverstein, and an additional amount loaned to the club by the majority owners to match the Silverstein loan. In both cases the loans are convertible (they can be swapped for equity at a valuation established at the point the loan was made). If that doesn’t happen within, in this case, 5 years, the loans need to be repaid.
The club (as with every company) needs to file all charges at companies house (that, in practical terms, means anything that has a call on future cash flows or income). It is done so that anyone reading the accounts knows if any of the money in the future is already ‘spoken for’. Without registering this information a reader could imagine, for example, that if the club sold a player in the future, they’d have money available to spend. This just points out that any money available in the future is only after these loans have been repaid, unless there’s been a conversion.
In short, nothing to see here that was not already known, and certainly not what is being suggested by the original tweet. |
Wow these ‘good men’, American investors here to take us to the next level. Loaning their club £5m, how generous. Huw and Co really did their homework. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 10:38 - Jan 14 with 1144 views | BillyChong |
| Money being moved around? on 16:17 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
Same effect.
Loan gets made. It needs repaying. In this case, one repayment option is conversion to shares. The other is repaying the money. |
So how much of their own money have the American investors actually invested into the club since the takeover? These loans obviously don’t count. As far as I can tell it’s a big fat zero. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 10:57 - Jan 14 with 1130 views | Badlands |
| Money being moved around? on 10:38 - Jan 14 by BillyChong |
So how much of their own money have the American investors actually invested into the club since the takeover? These loans obviously don’t count. As far as I can tell it’s a big fat zero. |
That would be the same as the Trust.
That would be the same as our previous shareholders.
That would be the same as 90% of all 'owners' / shareholders of professional football clubs. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:32 - Jan 14 with 1112 views | AndyCole |
| Money being moved around? on 18:00 - Jan 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am grateful to the US for their loan which I understand is at a low rate of interest. It is done to help the club in their hour of need. I still believe it allowed Winter to squeeze a bit more out of Spurs for the Rodon transfer. £7m to £15m (eventually) was sound work.
Such words will make some posters angry and possibly queezy but I care not a jot about that. The US people might even make some good money out of it (it is a reasonable calculation to suggest Coopers boys can get back to the PL in five years). I hope they do. I want to see Welsh owners taking the same risks and making the same gains.
Burnley sold for £200m do not forget that. 21% of £200m is £42m. FORTY TWO MILLION. Holy moley with bells on. The fans should be very grateful to the people who set up the Trust. Go with the flow and keep your nose clean and the rewards are enormous in the right hands. |
Good to get some discussion on the Club finances. Why would some posters be angry and queasy ?
Do you have any further insight on how the Club is now faring after Birch's necessary intervention ? Be good to see financial projections based on that scenario of getting back to EPL in 5years. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:54 - Jan 14 with 1094 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 12:32 - Jan 14 by AndyCole |
Good to get some discussion on the Club finances. Why would some posters be angry and queasy ?
Do you have any further insight on how the Club is now faring after Birch's necessary intervention ? Be good to see financial projections based on that scenario of getting back to EPL in 5years. |
Hes right, his words are queasy. Just a continuation of his cheer leading agenda of the American owners&he thinks they can do no wrong. While there a lot of worse owners around, they should be rightfully called out when do drop a clanger. And as per my post further up the thread grossly underselling our best asset while around the same time taking on debt for the club cannot be a good thing. Especially when Winter himself stated the finances are ok and there was no debt. [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 13:05]
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| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 14 with 1045 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 23:50 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001 |
So the holding company could be sold with the Trust getting £nil.
And yet the Trust stake would be worth £42m? Despite someone being able to get full control over the club without buying it?
Your good old fashioned common sense appears to be letting you down a bit doesn’t it?
You haven’t answered the interest rate point btw. You were so adamant as well.
Laughable. |
Why should the Trust get any money for the US owners selling their own company that owns 69% of Swansea city. The Welsh minority shareholders could of course at the same time ask to sell their holding as the same time at the same price. They would need to persuade the buyer to buy their shares also. Without a "tag on agreement" It might need a skilled salesmen to make the case for them. Selling is not easy. It needs total committment.
The Trust can put their share up for sale at any time at a price of the chosing. Naturally it would be best to do this in the Premier League. Based on the Burnley price £200m the valuation would be around £42m as a bench mark. It is not known if the other minority shareholders have "tag on" deals.
Naturally a buyer wants to be able to run the club with out distractions and have a controlling interest. A rich buyer might see it as a good investment opportunity and wish to buy 100% of the club possibly at a discount in relation to beneficial Sterling movements for example.
All I know is in all these things good relations with other shareholders is essential for cooperation.
I am not interested in the various forms of loans avaialable, it not my profession. That is for financial technicians to worry about. From my limited resaerch convertable loan notes are seen as cheap methods of loaning money compared to other mechsnisms. If the US people convert the loans into equity I will be happy as the club will not have to pay it back. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:17 - Jan 14 with 1033 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Why should the Trust get any money for the US owners selling their own company that owns 69% of Swansea city. The Welsh minority shareholders could of course at the same time ask to sell their holding as the same time at the same price. They would need to persuade the buyer to buy their shares also. Without a "tag on agreement" It might need a skilled salesmen to make the case for them. Selling is not easy. It needs total committment.
The Trust can put their share up for sale at any time at a price of the chosing. Naturally it would be best to do this in the Premier League. Based on the Burnley price £200m the valuation would be around £42m as a bench mark. It is not known if the other minority shareholders have "tag on" deals.
Naturally a buyer wants to be able to run the club with out distractions and have a controlling interest. A rich buyer might see it as a good investment opportunity and wish to buy 100% of the club possibly at a discount in relation to beneficial Sterling movements for example.
All I know is in all these things good relations with other shareholders is essential for cooperation.
I am not interested in the various forms of loans avaialable, it not my profession. That is for financial technicians to worry about. From my limited resaerch convertable loan notes are seen as cheap methods of loaning money compared to other mechsnisms. If the US people convert the loans into equity I will be happy as the club will not have to pay it back. |
I assume you're missing the point on purpose. Legally everyone knows the trust are not entitled to get anything if the Americans sell their holding company which 69% of the football club would be one of their assets. Presumably there would not be any tag on agreement because the new buyers won't directly be buying the football club . And just like the last sale the trust could be excluded again&could end up with no say in the running of the club. So all your projections of how much the trust's shares are worth are pretty irrelevant, because anyone buy the 69% and have total control anyway. Like it is now in the championship - with no buyers for the trusts shares present. | |
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| Money being moved around? (n/t) on 15:28 - Jan 14 with 1018 views | Badlands |
| Money being moved around? on 15:17 - Jan 14 by Chief |
I assume you're missing the point on purpose. Legally everyone knows the trust are not entitled to get anything if the Americans sell their holding company which 69% of the football club would be one of their assets. Presumably there would not be any tag on agreement because the new buyers won't directly be buying the football club . And just like the last sale the trust could be excluded again&could end up with no say in the running of the club. So all your projections of how much the trust's shares are worth are pretty irrelevant, because anyone buy the 69% and have total control anyway. Like it is now in the championship - with no buyers for the trusts shares present. |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:28 - Jan 14 with 1018 views | Badlands |
| Money being moved around? on 15:17 - Jan 14 by Chief |
I assume you're missing the point on purpose. Legally everyone knows the trust are not entitled to get anything if the Americans sell their holding company which 69% of the football club would be one of their assets. Presumably there would not be any tag on agreement because the new buyers won't directly be buying the football club . And just like the last sale the trust could be excluded again&could end up with no say in the running of the club. So all your projections of how much the trust's shares are worth are pretty irrelevant, because anyone buy the 69% and have total control anyway. Like it is now in the championship - with no buyers for the trusts shares present. |
Just goes to show how inept the Trust has been from the start. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:30 - Jan 14 with 1017 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 15:28 - Jan 14 by Badlands |
Just goes to show how inept the Trust has been from the start. |
In what sense? How could they have stopped the previous owners breaking a shareholders agreement and the new ones from setting up a holding company? | |
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| Money being moved around? on 15:58 - Jan 14 with 997 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Why should the Trust get any money for the US owners selling their own company that owns 69% of Swansea city. The Welsh minority shareholders could of course at the same time ask to sell their holding as the same time at the same price. They would need to persuade the buyer to buy their shares also. Without a "tag on agreement" It might need a skilled salesmen to make the case for them. Selling is not easy. It needs total committment.
The Trust can put their share up for sale at any time at a price of the chosing. Naturally it would be best to do this in the Premier League. Based on the Burnley price £200m the valuation would be around £42m as a bench mark. It is not known if the other minority shareholders have "tag on" deals.
Naturally a buyer wants to be able to run the club with out distractions and have a controlling interest. A rich buyer might see it as a good investment opportunity and wish to buy 100% of the club possibly at a discount in relation to beneficial Sterling movements for example.
All I know is in all these things good relations with other shareholders is essential for cooperation.
I am not interested in the various forms of loans avaialable, it not my profession. That is for financial technicians to worry about. From my limited resaerch convertable loan notes are seen as cheap methods of loaning money compared to other mechsnisms. If the US people convert the loans into equity I will be happy as the club will not have to pay it back. |
You appear to be completely clueless.
If you can sell total control of the club at a Swansea Football LLC level without touching the Trust’s shares in the club, those shares are not worth £42m are they? If the holding company is sold, the shares in Swansea City 2002 Ltd remain as is. Tag or drag rights are neither here nor there as the shares exchanging hands are in a different company.
So stop pretending they are. Over and over again.
Similarly, if you don’t understand anything about interest rates, stop opining that ‘they’ve charged a low interest rate’. It makes you look like an absolute idiot.
Your only purpose is to constantly cast aspersions on the Trust and to talk bollox about financial stuff when it’s quite clear you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You can’t even spell convertible loan notes let alone discuss them.
Stop wasting everyone’s time. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 16:00 - Jan 14 with 995 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 15:28 - Jan 14 by Badlands |
Just goes to show how inept the Trust has been from the start. |
No it doesn’t. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 16:03 - Jan 14 with 989 views | BillyChong |
| Money being moved around? on 10:57 - Jan 14 by Badlands |
That would be the same as the Trust.
That would be the same as our previous shareholders.
That would be the same as 90% of all 'owners' / shareholders of professional football clubs. |
Since when has the purpose of a supporters trust been to invest in a club? | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 16:33 - Jan 14 with 970 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 15:58 - Jan 14 by londonlisa2001 |
You appear to be completely clueless.
If you can sell total control of the club at a Swansea Football LLC level without touching the Trust’s shares in the club, those shares are not worth £42m are they? If the holding company is sold, the shares in Swansea City 2002 Ltd remain as is. Tag or drag rights are neither here nor there as the shares exchanging hands are in a different company.
So stop pretending they are. Over and over again.
Similarly, if you don’t understand anything about interest rates, stop opining that ‘they’ve charged a low interest rate’. It makes you look like an absolute idiot.
Your only purpose is to constantly cast aspersions on the Trust and to talk bollox about financial stuff when it’s quite clear you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You can’t even spell convertible loan notes let alone discuss them.
Stop wasting everyone’s time. |
Why the personal insult
Why not make your point as strongly as you can .Are you able to do so without being personal. Res might not post what you agree with but he has infinately more class than you have. Your self aggrandisement is well out of control so keep it to PS where you legendary status is secure for life. You are no different to any other fan and your opinions are just that and no more .
Now then,just what good are the Trust doing right now and what have they done over the past 5 years. How can they best serve the fan base ?Try answering this question ma'am. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 16:41 - Jan 14 with 962 views | pikeypaul |
| Money being moved around? on 15:30 - Jan 14 by Chief |
In what sense? How could they have stopped the previous owners breaking a shareholders agreement and the new ones from setting up a holding company? |
They couldn’t.
What they could have done is take legal action when the legally binding agreements were broken, for some reason certain members fought like hell for a blind eye to be turned.
I wonder why? [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 16:44]
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| Money being moved around? on 16:43 - Jan 14 with 962 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 16:41 - Jan 14 by pikeypaul |
They couldn’t.
What they could have done is take legal action when the legally binding agreements were broken, for some reason certain members fought like hell for a blind eye to be turned.
I wonder why? [Post edited 14 Jan 2021 16:44]
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I assume to try and maintain the club running properly and trying to form a relationship with the owners.
But i can't say for certain as i wasn't one of them. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 16:57 - Jan 14 with 956 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 15:28 - Jan 14 by Badlands |
Just goes to show how inept the Trust has been from the start. |
Im a simple man
I joined the Trust for two reasons.One,I trusted the guy who was Chairman and 2,I thought it would benefit the club and move us on.
I believed the idea was to protect the club from malfeasance and malpractice. It failed -simple as that.
And now it is looking to sue the sellers;just great,when we do not have a pot to pyss in not long after attracting PL money and massive profit from players-good players replaced with dross.
Sorry but the Trust seem an utter irrelevance although it says little for local people that the Trut was formed to prevent said local people shafting the club.
Still,while we search for basement bargains,the unwanted and the chaff ,this crap goes on and on and fans enjoy clearly uptumping themselves as the business people the club should have had;the people who had or did not want to give to our club at time of need.
Might be guilt. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 17:29 - Jan 14 with 942 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 16:57 - Jan 14 by onehunglow |
Im a simple man
I joined the Trust for two reasons.One,I trusted the guy who was Chairman and 2,I thought it would benefit the club and move us on.
I believed the idea was to protect the club from malfeasance and malpractice. It failed -simple as that.
And now it is looking to sue the sellers;just great,when we do not have a pot to pyss in not long after attracting PL money and massive profit from players-good players replaced with dross.
Sorry but the Trust seem an utter irrelevance although it says little for local people that the Trut was formed to prevent said local people shafting the club.
Still,while we search for basement bargains,the unwanted and the chaff ,this crap goes on and on and fans enjoy clearly uptumping themselves as the business people the club should have had;the people who had or did not want to give to our club at time of need.
Might be guilt. |
You can say it failed, but what conceivable way could it have prevented it? They can't have power over the actions of other people influenced by personal enrichment.
Not sure why you're linking the trust suing the owners and club being skint. You know the club isn't the entity being taken to court.
Easy for the weak moaners who enjoy to stick their head in the sand to say they're an irrelevance. Winter has said they're working closely with the trust so they must have some say. And they still own 21% of the club. No doubt though you'll be happy to enjoy the fruit of the trust's labour's in future if they achieve their aims though. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:35 - Jan 14 with 910 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 16:33 - Jan 14 by onehunglow |
Why the personal insult
Why not make your point as strongly as you can .Are you able to do so without being personal. Res might not post what you agree with but he has infinately more class than you have. Your self aggrandisement is well out of control so keep it to PS where you legendary status is secure for life. You are no different to any other fan and your opinions are just that and no more .
Now then,just what good are the Trust doing right now and what have they done over the past 5 years. How can they best serve the fan base ?Try answering this question ma'am. |
As I’ve said on a number of occasions over the years, I’ve absolutely no desire whatsoever to engage with you in any way.
Please respect that. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 22:00 - Jan 14 with 840 views | AndyCole |
| Money being moved around? on 15:04 - Jan 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Why should the Trust get any money for the US owners selling their own company that owns 69% of Swansea city. The Welsh minority shareholders could of course at the same time ask to sell their holding as the same time at the same price. They would need to persuade the buyer to buy their shares also. Without a "tag on agreement" It might need a skilled salesmen to make the case for them. Selling is not easy. It needs total committment.
The Trust can put their share up for sale at any time at a price of the chosing. Naturally it would be best to do this in the Premier League. Based on the Burnley price £200m the valuation would be around £42m as a bench mark. It is not known if the other minority shareholders have "tag on" deals.
Naturally a buyer wants to be able to run the club with out distractions and have a controlling interest. A rich buyer might see it as a good investment opportunity and wish to buy 100% of the club possibly at a discount in relation to beneficial Sterling movements for example.
All I know is in all these things good relations with other shareholders is essential for cooperation.
I am not interested in the various forms of loans avaialable, it not my profession. That is for financial technicians to worry about. From my limited resaerch convertable loan notes are seen as cheap methods of loaning money compared to other mechsnisms. If the US people convert the loans into equity I will be happy as the club will not have to pay it back. |
"All I know is in all these things good relations with other shareholders is essential for cooperation."
This.
It seems the trust as we know it and their ilk (as seen on this very thread) is ill equipped, amateurish and uncouth. The responses to your posts says it all. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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