| Transfer window - time running out 11:52 - Jan 28 with 2003 views | Chief |
I'd left it a while because there was still ample time.
But we're now at the Thursday before the window shuts on Monday and so far we've brought in 2 loans and a free transfer back up keeper while losing 3 loans&letting some of ours leave.
Are we done? Is Cooper happy?
Few weeks ago he said he wanted to replace the lost loans&more, also referencing some permanent signings. There was talk of a 'big' off the radar signing that i assume just turned out to be Hourihane that was a loan& far from secret.
I'll probably get pelters again but surely with the Rodon sale&the loans from the Americans there should be money to invest in the squad at this opportune time!?
|  |
| |  |
| Transfer window - time running out on 16:42 - Jan 28 with 752 views | Thornburyswan |
I suspect we have funds available but only if the the spot on player/option becomes available - in current climate/pandemic exactly right approach too.
Cooper has made clear on several occasions that whilst he will always want more he’s happy to go with what he has as long as we don’t lose anyone. |  | | |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:05 - Jan 28 with 717 views | magicdaps10 |
| Transfer window - time running out on 16:42 - Jan 28 by Thornburyswan |
I suspect we have funds available but only if the the spot on player/option becomes available - in current climate/pandemic exactly right approach too.
Cooper has made clear on several occasions that whilst he will always want more he’s happy to go with what he has as long as we don’t lose anyone. |
Thanks Thornbury for bringing back on track(the topic).
I think there is a look out for a full back and striker but the club will only push ahead if it's the right deal for the club.... Arriol looks to be the fall back option at full back if nothing else comes off.
The whole thing will heat up Monday and players will become available and others won't. We could do with a body or 2 in but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we couldn't get players in. |  |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:08 - Jan 28 with 714 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Transfer window - time running out on 13:31 - Jan 28 by onehunglow |
Why should you get pelter.
We have received millions and it seems to have vanished
AGAIN.
People should be asking the Owners/Chairman those questions |
The club was spending in the premier league and is spending much less in the Championship as the income has reduced rapidly. At all times the club has stayed as a going concern. A pot of money is held to fullfuill the clubs obligations.
The fans ahould be happy that the club employed Mr Birch. He has got the best jobs in UK football and if there were any whispers at all in the football community of mal practice surely Mr Birch would not be running the FA. |  |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:22 - Jan 28 with 704 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:08 - Jan 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The club was spending in the premier league and is spending much less in the Championship as the income has reduced rapidly. At all times the club has stayed as a going concern. A pot of money is held to fullfuill the clubs obligations.
The fans ahould be happy that the club employed Mr Birch. He has got the best jobs in UK football and if there were any whispers at all in the football community of mal practice surely Mr Birch would not be running the FA. |
Correct. |  |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:28 - Jan 28 with 700 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 16:28 - Jan 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
We weren’t owed £36m for them, no. Enough to cover the first instalment one would imagine which would have helped with cashflow. Naughton is definitely a high earner. Again, last time we were here we broke even on an £11m salary. We are probably now at more than double that and our match day income, ticket sales and sponsorship massively down.
The rebate on MGW would pale into insignificance when it comes to the loan of CH and the fees associated with it, that’s without touching the BH or JM deal. If we paid 250k for MGW then that’s 125k of a near £2m investment. There is no way we would be getting any rebate from Palmer or Gyokeres, we didn’t play them.
It doesn’t matter that what we have spent has been dwarfed by what we have received, because what we have received is due to what is going out. Again the car and rent scenario, we cannot spend what we will owe. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 16:33]
|
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. If we are still paying for the likes of Bony / Ayew the payments must be nominal. I don't see why you think Naughton is a high earner. He's not a regular, never has been under Cooper. With his contract expiring pretty sure he wouldn't have been given another big one. Last time we were here, do you mean the championship under Brendan? We had no parachute payments then.
Again i disagree with you on the loans. While there would be some agents fees, in the grand scheme of things for a 5 month loan, they wouldn't be much at all. And to me i don't see what difference not playing them made, they were here and available for selection on a loan to end of season. Logic dictates them being recalled half way through that means we only pay half. It's not like we sent them back.
And while your car anology has merit i don't think its particularly relevant to the situation we currently find ourselves in. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:31 - Jan 28 with 697 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Transfer window - time running out on 16:36 - Jan 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which part has upset you?
The original point made by the OP is that we should have money to spend after the Rodon sale, the discussion since has been why we probably don’t.
I know it’s hard for you to follow most things but please try for the sake of everyone else.
Ta. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 16:39]
|
The "derailment of threads" is a protest against unpopular views. An attempt at denying free speech and harrassing individual posters promoting unpopular narratives. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:35 - Jan 28 with 692 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:31 - Jan 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The "derailment of threads" is a protest against unpopular views. An attempt at denying free speech and harrassing individual posters promoting unpopular narratives. |
What is your view in relation to the OP then and not the subplots that have developed since? | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:41 - Jan 28 with 688 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:28 - Jan 28 by Chief |
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. If we are still paying for the likes of Bony / Ayew the payments must be nominal. I don't see why you think Naughton is a high earner. He's not a regular, never has been under Cooper. With his contract expiring pretty sure he wouldn't have been given another big one. Last time we were here, do you mean the championship under Brendan? We had no parachute payments then.
Again i disagree with you on the loans. While there would be some agents fees, in the grand scheme of things for a 5 month loan, they wouldn't be much at all. And to me i don't see what difference not playing them made, they were here and available for selection on a loan to end of season. Logic dictates them being recalled half way through that means we only pay half. It's not like we sent them back.
And while your car anology has merit i don't think its particularly relevant to the situation we currently find ourselves in. |
Because there is value in players. It is in our interests to keep players in our books as they have value attached. Naughton for example won’t be going from 15k a week to 4k a week, there is just no way he would accept that. I would imagine Naughton is on around 10k a week which of course would be a top earner last time around, maybe even THE top earner.
Parachute payments are to help cover Premier League expenses that cannot be serviced with a Championship income. They aren’t a bonus. Parachute payments are used to pay the likes of West Ham for Ayew, or Man City for Bony as well as pay our players monthly sums that will exceed more than we can normally afford to pay them out of normal monthly generated income.
Parachute payments helped cover the enormous shortfall between expenditure and income, but did not cover it by any means. We have had people within the club confirm that. The season after relegation for example we had to find £40m, player sales made up most of that.
It will be the same every season, we will need to sell to cover costs. That doesn’t mean costs in the transfer market but club costs to keep running. Until we become self sufficient. But in order to do that the likes of Ayew, Naughton, Hourihane, Roberts et al will have to leave for pastures new.
If we want to keep up the level of quality within the squad and management team to compete, we will need to sell to survive and then sell to invest. The latter cannot come before the former and we are a good 18 months away from being close to self sufficient I would hazard a guess. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:46 - Jan 28 with 673 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:35 - Jan 28 by Chief |
What is your view in relation to the OP then and not the subplots that have developed since? |
There is no sub-plots being discussed.
In your OP you mused that there would be money available to spend in January due to the Rodon sale. The discussion since has been why selling Rodon doesn’t mean we have money to spend, in fact it’s very likely we don’t.
It is a direct answer to the last part of your post, and probably the most important part of it considering the answer of which answers all the other questions raised. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:47 - Jan 28 with 669 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:41 - Jan 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
Because there is value in players. It is in our interests to keep players in our books as they have value attached. Naughton for example won’t be going from 15k a week to 4k a week, there is just no way he would accept that. I would imagine Naughton is on around 10k a week which of course would be a top earner last time around, maybe even THE top earner.
Parachute payments are to help cover Premier League expenses that cannot be serviced with a Championship income. They aren’t a bonus. Parachute payments are used to pay the likes of West Ham for Ayew, or Man City for Bony as well as pay our players monthly sums that will exceed more than we can normally afford to pay them out of normal monthly generated income.
Parachute payments helped cover the enormous shortfall between expenditure and income, but did not cover it by any means. We have had people within the club confirm that. The season after relegation for example we had to find £40m, player sales made up most of that.
It will be the same every season, we will need to sell to cover costs. That doesn’t mean costs in the transfer market but club costs to keep running. Until we become self sufficient. But in order to do that the likes of Ayew, Naughton, Hourihane, Roberts et al will have to leave for pastures new.
If we want to keep up the level of quality within the squad and management team to compete, we will need to sell to survive and then sell to invest. The latter cannot come before the former and we are a good 18 months away from being close to self sufficient I would hazard a guess. |
What actual value is there in Naughton then? He wouldn't command a transfer fee. His only value to us is as a handy utility player to fill in and as such being settled in the area, he wouldn't be on a high wage.
Never said parachute payments were a bonus, but they are income. To cover legacy costs and high earners. A lot of which we offloaded quite fast&have consistently reduced the wage bill.
But you're last comment is the crux, we have a chance to reinvest, but we seemingly aren't.
There's also the matter of the loan we've received which you haven't mentioned or factored in at all. If we're not using it, give it back. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 17:48]
| |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:51 - Jan 28 with 662 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:35 - Jan 28 by Chief |
What is your view in relation to the OP then and not the subplots that have developed since? |
I think Cooper is looking for a stellar youth player like Brewster and failing that will bring in the DC player. as cover. Gilmour perhaps the idea one given the rpeorted "relationship" with Chelsea.. Second choice might be James Garner if Man utd want him out of Watford. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:53 - Jan 28 with 660 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:51 - Jan 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I think Cooper is looking for a stellar youth player like Brewster and failing that will bring in the DC player. as cover. Gilmour perhaps the idea one given the rpeorted "relationship" with Chelsea.. Second choice might be James Garner if Man utd want him out of Watford. |
So no permanent transfers then in your opinion? | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:09 - Jan 28 with 652 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:53 - Jan 28 by Chief |
So no permanent transfers then in your opinion? |
Grandsir perhaps if Monaco reduce their asking price. I believe Swansea needs to incorporate speed to be able to counter attack more effectively in Coopers defensive model. Garrick showed that v Stevenage. Cooper played Kalulu when he was fit.
Super fast wing backs like Lamptey at Brighton as currently in fashion. Roberts and Bidwell are physical specimens and powerful in the air but not superquick.
Garrick is very fast and it was interesting to see him as wing back. He had the Stevenage full back on toast but did not see enough of the ball.
He seems to be a project. At 22 its now or never. No news on a new deal yet. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 18:20]
| |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:11 - Jan 28 with 650 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 17:47 - Jan 28 by Chief |
What actual value is there in Naughton then? He wouldn't command a transfer fee. His only value to us is as a handy utility player to fill in and as such being settled in the area, he wouldn't be on a high wage.
Never said parachute payments were a bonus, but they are income. To cover legacy costs and high earners. A lot of which we offloaded quite fast&have consistently reduced the wage bill.
But you're last comment is the crux, we have a chance to reinvest, but we seemingly aren't.
There's also the matter of the loan we've received which you haven't mentioned or factored in at all. If we're not using it, give it back. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 17:48]
|
Of course he has value, his market value is listed at £1.35m. We bought him for £6m 5 years ago. If we allowed him to walk away for free it would have been ridiculous for all concerned. We would need to bring someone in to replace him and go through the whole process again of paying agents fees, signing on fees (bigger for “free” transfers) and of course pay them a salary. He will absolutely be one of our bigger earners in terms of players that are actually ours.
You made the point that we didn’t have parachute payments last time. Well no, but we didn’t have tens of millions of outgoings either. So this money is earmarked, and as confirmed not anywhere close to fulfilling the shortfall experienced after the drop. Hence why we sold players and continue to sell them to service not only the current season but future seasons where we won’t be receiving any parachute payments at all.
My last comment didn’t say we have the chance to invest. My last comment said we need to sell to survive, then sell to invest. We aren’t at that point yet as we aren’t self sufficient meaning any sales need to go elsewhere. When we become self sufficient then any sales can be invested but we aren’t anywhere close to that being the case yet.
Why would I mention the loan? Who said we aren’t using it? We clearly needed the loan to cover immediate outgoings due to poor cashflow, which is normal within a football club. Players need to get paid, training pitches need to be maintained and staff need to be looked after. Running a football club isn’t cheap, especially one with facilities that exceed the last time we were here. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 18:13]
| |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:38 - Jan 28 with 639 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:11 - Jan 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course he has value, his market value is listed at £1.35m. We bought him for £6m 5 years ago. If we allowed him to walk away for free it would have been ridiculous for all concerned. We would need to bring someone in to replace him and go through the whole process again of paying agents fees, signing on fees (bigger for “free” transfers) and of course pay them a salary. He will absolutely be one of our bigger earners in terms of players that are actually ours.
You made the point that we didn’t have parachute payments last time. Well no, but we didn’t have tens of millions of outgoings either. So this money is earmarked, and as confirmed not anywhere close to fulfilling the shortfall experienced after the drop. Hence why we sold players and continue to sell them to service not only the current season but future seasons where we won’t be receiving any parachute payments at all.
My last comment didn’t say we have the chance to invest. My last comment said we need to sell to survive, then sell to invest. We aren’t at that point yet as we aren’t self sufficient meaning any sales need to go elsewhere. When we become self sufficient then any sales can be invested but we aren’t anywhere close to that being the case yet.
Why would I mention the loan? Who said we aren’t using it? We clearly needed the loan to cover immediate outgoings due to poor cashflow, which is normal within a football club. Players need to get paid, training pitches need to be maintained and staff need to be looked after. Running a football club isn’t cheap, especially one with facilities that exceed the last time we were here. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 18:13]
|
Using that logic why did we leave Dyer go then? He'd have a market value. The market value means nothing. Naughtons fairly useful to us at a cheap wage for us not needing to find alternative as you say. Still baffles me why anyone would think he's on big money compared to the rest of the 1st teamers.
Do we really have tens of millions of outgoings now? When we came down yes. Ayew is the sole relic remaining in my eyes and i dont think there's fees remaining.
The loan shouldn't be forgotten because its income in the club's accounts. Running the club certainly isn't cheap but we have income from elsewhere to cover that. Compared to this 10mill it's not even worth considering.
"We're still in debt, we still owe, im sure we'll be able to invest soon" We've heard a lot of this. And no doubt the next window will be same, and the one after that, and so on.... | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:42 - Jan 28 with 634 views | Chief |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:09 - Jan 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Grandsir perhaps if Monaco reduce their asking price. I believe Swansea needs to incorporate speed to be able to counter attack more effectively in Coopers defensive model. Garrick showed that v Stevenage. Cooper played Kalulu when he was fit.
Super fast wing backs like Lamptey at Brighton as currently in fashion. Roberts and Bidwell are physical specimens and powerful in the air but not superquick.
Garrick is very fast and it was interesting to see him as wing back. He had the Stevenage full back on toast but did not see enough of the ball.
He seems to be a project. At 22 its now or never. No news on a new deal yet. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 18:20]
|
And i suppose we had to sell Rodon cut price and take 10mill plus in loans to allow us to sign Grandsir? Who'll be signed (if he comes) for free or for very little. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:49 - Jan 28 with 630 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:38 - Jan 28 by Chief |
Using that logic why did we leave Dyer go then? He'd have a market value. The market value means nothing. Naughtons fairly useful to us at a cheap wage for us not needing to find alternative as you say. Still baffles me why anyone would think he's on big money compared to the rest of the 1st teamers.
Do we really have tens of millions of outgoings now? When we came down yes. Ayew is the sole relic remaining in my eyes and i dont think there's fees remaining.
The loan shouldn't be forgotten because its income in the club's accounts. Running the club certainly isn't cheap but we have income from elsewhere to cover that. Compared to this 10mill it's not even worth considering.
"We're still in debt, we still owe, im sure we'll be able to invest soon" We've heard a lot of this. And no doubt the next window will be same, and the one after that, and so on.... |
It’s not logic, it’s just common sense and the situation at hand. But to answer the question regarding Dyer - because he was injured, barely making an appearance off the bench and typically shot as a footballer. Naughton is a very good championship defender, they aren’t comparable. I don’t “think” he is a high earner, it’s not a guess, I know he is. He is a Premier League legacy player that is very much part of our team, they don’t come down for peanuts.
Yes we really have millions of outgoings. Player amortisation, salaries, staff, maintenance, agents fees, loyalty payments, pitch, academy, recovery centre - you name it. Comparing this Championship season to the last time we were here is chalk and cheese, and we were just breaking even then as mentioned. Now our costs have gone up significantly, next year we lose our parachute payments and probably continue to lose match day revenue.
We have invested. We spent around £2m on two players in this window and we haven’t touched on the American loan signing, unsure of the details of that but his market value is pretty high so can’t imagine it’s a cheap package. I would say we have spent £3m in this window all up. | |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:55 - Jan 28 with 620 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Transfer window - time running out on 18:42 - Jan 28 by Chief |
And i suppose we had to sell Rodon cut price and take 10mill plus in loans to allow us to sign Grandsir? Who'll be signed (if he comes) for free or for very little. |
No, we would have to have sold Rodon to allow us to get the loans in as well as service future obligations (this was covered by the chairman who confirms it) and taken the loan to cover cashflow issues faced by the club as well as service future obligations also. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 18:55]
| |
| |
| Transfer window - time running out on 19:53 - Jan 28 with 587 views | Boundy |
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/ | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
