| Home Rule 10:49 - Feb 28 with 15598 views | Catullus |
Drakeford wants it, devo max, go Federal, whatever you want to call it. His speech said a lot but was very light on detail. It was full of optimistic generalisations without saying much at all.
It is obvious now why the Labour party wanted to give the vote to 16/17 year olds, they are targettting them at the next election with this home rule demand because they know young people are more likley to support it, or independence.
This change in the voting laws was nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with tilting the vote in their favour but maybe it'll backfire and those youngsters will vote Plaid?
That aside, whn will we hear details? When will Drakeford give us the opportunity to weight up his plans?
He has also said more than once he won't serve a full term if he wins, that most likely means we'll have Gething foisted on us...from frying pan into the fire then. Can we vote for a party when we know the leader isn't interested in doing the term? Certainly people didn't like it when we had Bojo foisted on us, plenty said we didn'tvote for him and said it wasn't democratic. |  |
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| Home Rule on 20:49 - Mar 7 with 743 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Home Rule on 20:32 - Mar 7 by Dr_Winston |
Now we have the WG threatening a stay local rule when the figures suggest that by their own alert system we should be at level 2 now. Level three at worst. |
I thought Drakers was reasonable.
Cautious not to go too quickly too soon, thats it.
Rather than go straight all in, its an interim step.
Its safeguarding the unlock.
He can always unlock quicker if the data keeps being good.
Last thing we need is another stop start stop start situation. Shirley ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Home Rule on 20:50 - Mar 7 with 737 views | Catullus |
| Home Rule on 20:49 - Mar 7 by Kilkennyjack |
I thought Drakers was reasonable.
Cautious not to go too quickly too soon, thats it.
Rather than go straight all in, its an interim step.
Its safeguarding the unlock.
He can always unlock quicker if the data keeps being good.
Last thing we need is another stop start stop start situation. Shirley ? |
Blooming heck, twice in one day...I agree, better to come out slowly and cautiously then rush it and take steps backwards. We are all fed up of lockdown but baby steps forward are better than making a massive mistake. | |
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| Home Rule on 21:03 - Mar 7 with 728 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 18:55 - Mar 7 by Catullus |
And he ignores the BAME community, England has many more than Wales, there's probably more in Bradford alone.
He's so concerned about the airport but won't answer my question about healthcare then says I ignore the facts. |
I havent ignored the BAME community. I have stated this several times. Cardiff has 5 or 6 times the BAME community RCT has yet has only 2/3 of the cases. So BAME isnt showing to be such a great thing is it. You can apply the same to Swansea and Neath. You keep ignoring this as though it doesnt happen. If BAME was the reason you would expect many more cases in Cardiff which is the highest area in Wales but that isnt the case.
As far as deaths are concerned it quite clearly shows the higher the age the more deaths there are. This applies to the UK as much as Wales.
There have been specific problems in Valleys areas. Have a look at the rates in RCT compared to any other non valley area. The rest of the UK doesnt suffer this to a great degree.
It doesnt alter the fact that Wales has had less cases and deaths than England and higher vaccination rates. These are not my figures. These are the amounts used by the UK, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments. Never mind you can ignore what they say if it doesnt fit your case cant you. | | | |
| Home Rule on 21:13 - Mar 7 with 719 views | Scotia |
| Home Rule on 20:50 - Mar 7 by Catullus |
Blooming heck, twice in one day...I agree, better to come out slowly and cautiously then rush it and take steps backwards. We are all fed up of lockdown but baby steps forward are better than making a massive mistake. |
I hate lockdown, but this one has to last long enough for it to be the last one.
Having said that, there is no excuse for us to be unlocking anywhere any later than England. That is pointless. The last one proved that.
Of course we'll do things differently so as WG can justify their existence in the run up to the election but there is no need for us to.
I just wish Drakeford would stop treating us like toddlers. I haven't told my 3 year old she can have a birthday party in the garden in April because she wouldn't understand if we had to cancel. I, on the other hand, can grasp the situation.
Some or any sort of plan would be nice. At the moment it seems to extend to maybe going on a self catering holiday local to your home by Easter. Brilliant. | | | |
| Home Rule on 21:19 - Mar 7 with 714 views | Dr_Winston |
| Home Rule on 21:13 - Mar 7 by Scotia |
I hate lockdown, but this one has to last long enough for it to be the last one.
Having said that, there is no excuse for us to be unlocking anywhere any later than England. That is pointless. The last one proved that.
Of course we'll do things differently so as WG can justify their existence in the run up to the election but there is no need for us to.
I just wish Drakeford would stop treating us like toddlers. I haven't told my 3 year old she can have a birthday party in the garden in April because she wouldn't understand if we had to cancel. I, on the other hand, can grasp the situation.
Some or any sort of plan would be nice. At the moment it seems to extend to maybe going on a self catering holiday local to your home by Easter. Brilliant. |
Point is their own rules that they set out suggest that lockdown should be easing significantly now. Instead we're threatened with only a slight relaxation. If they don't stick to their own system why the hell should they expect the public to? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Home Rule on 21:57 - Mar 7 with 698 views | Flashberryjack |
| Home Rule on 21:19 - Mar 7 by Dr_Winston |
Point is their own rules that they set out suggest that lockdown should be easing significantly now. Instead we're threatened with only a slight relaxation. If they don't stick to their own system why the hell should they expect the public to? |
God knows what he'll come up with in his next briefing, he needs a haircut and likes to holiday in Pembrokeshire... wonder if that gives us a clue.
One thing I'm sure of, whatever Boris does, he'll do it latter, or differently. |  |
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| Home Rule on 21:59 - Mar 7 with 692 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 21:19 - Mar 7 by Dr_Winston |
Point is their own rules that they set out suggest that lockdown should be easing significantly now. Instead we're threatened with only a slight relaxation. If they don't stick to their own system why the hell should they expect the public to? |
The rules were made pre the Kent virus. The major issue is when we came out of the firebreak lockdown before England Cardiff was absolutely crammed with shoppers coming over the border. If that was to happen again we could well end up in another lockdown. If we are going to open shops then we need a system to prevent them becoming crammed. If stay local is that system then fine. If not we wait and tie in with England opening which would mean our shops and tourism being closed over Easter.
As far as different things opening at different times it might have escaped your notice we are not alone in doing this. It is based on the advise of the WHO to prevent an increase in cases and perhaps heading towards another lockdown.
No doubt your right wing idea is to open everything at once. If we did this and ended up in another lockdown there is no doubt who you would blame.
Being cautious and only opening things that wont spread the virus is the right way forward. The last thing anyone needs is to end up in lockdown due to reckless policies as happened last summer. | | | |
| Home Rule on 22:20 - Mar 7 with 681 views | Boundy |
| Home Rule on 21:59 - Mar 7 by exhmrc1 |
The rules were made pre the Kent virus. The major issue is when we came out of the firebreak lockdown before England Cardiff was absolutely crammed with shoppers coming over the border. If that was to happen again we could well end up in another lockdown. If we are going to open shops then we need a system to prevent them becoming crammed. If stay local is that system then fine. If not we wait and tie in with England opening which would mean our shops and tourism being closed over Easter.
As far as different things opening at different times it might have escaped your notice we are not alone in doing this. It is based on the advise of the WHO to prevent an increase in cases and perhaps heading towards another lockdown.
No doubt your right wing idea is to open everything at once. If we did this and ended up in another lockdown there is no doubt who you would blame.
Being cautious and only opening things that wont spread the virus is the right way forward. The last thing anyone needs is to end up in lockdown due to reckless policies as happened last summer. |
You seem to be fixated on a persons political leaning rather than the detail of the content of their post , " No doubt your right wing idea is to open everything at once. " , your clouded perception on a persons political stance makes it extremely difficult for anyone to take you serious. | |
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| Home Rule on 22:37 - Mar 7 with 674 views | Scotia |
| Home Rule on 21:19 - Mar 7 by Dr_Winston |
Point is their own rules that they set out suggest that lockdown should be easing significantly now. Instead we're threatened with only a slight relaxation. If they don't stick to their own system why the hell should they expect the public to? |
Communication is the problem.
The old tier system won't work now because of the Kent variant. Of course Drakeford hasn't said that. He thinks we won't understand. | | | |
| Home Rule on 22:49 - Mar 7 with 666 views | Scotia |
| Home Rule on 21:03 - Mar 7 by exhmrc1 |
I havent ignored the BAME community. I have stated this several times. Cardiff has 5 or 6 times the BAME community RCT has yet has only 2/3 of the cases. So BAME isnt showing to be such a great thing is it. You can apply the same to Swansea and Neath. You keep ignoring this as though it doesnt happen. If BAME was the reason you would expect many more cases in Cardiff which is the highest area in Wales but that isnt the case.
As far as deaths are concerned it quite clearly shows the higher the age the more deaths there are. This applies to the UK as much as Wales.
There have been specific problems in Valleys areas. Have a look at the rates in RCT compared to any other non valley area. The rest of the UK doesnt suffer this to a great degree.
It doesnt alter the fact that Wales has had less cases and deaths than England and higher vaccination rates. These are not my figures. These are the amounts used by the UK, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments. Never mind you can ignore what they say if it doesnt fit your case cant you. |
You haven't ignored the BAME community, I agree, but once again you've missed the entire point.
Being a member of the BAME community doesn't mean you are automatically more susceptible to contracting covid than anyone else.
The way you live and the job you are likely to do does. BAME people are more likely to live in multi generation homes and work in higher risk jobs. Especially in large cities, just look at Taxi drivers in Cardiff, then multi that by a city the size of London.
Unfortunately they are also more likely to die if they catch covid. [Post edited 8 Mar 2021 7:26]
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| Home Rule on 23:34 - Mar 7 with 653 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 22:20 - Mar 7 by Boundy |
You seem to be fixated on a persons political leaning rather than the detail of the content of their post , " No doubt your right wing idea is to open everything at once. " , your clouded perception on a persons political stance makes it extremely difficult for anyone to take you serious. |
That is your personal view and I hold a totally different one. There is no doubt that several of you on here would dispute whatever Drakeford does because of your political views. I seem to remember you agreeing to that. | | | |
| Home Rule on 06:52 - Mar 8 with 634 views | Dr_Winston |
| Home Rule on 23:34 - Mar 7 by exhmrc1 |
That is your personal view and I hold a totally different one. There is no doubt that several of you on here would dispute whatever Drakeford does because of your political views. I seem to remember you agreeing to that. |
Equally there's no doubt that there are those who will defend everything he does because of theirs. As you have so amply demonstrated throughout this entire situation. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Home Rule on 07:07 - Mar 8 with 629 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 06:52 - Mar 8 by Dr_Winston |
Equally there's no doubt that there are those who will defend everything he does because of theirs. As you have so amply demonstrated throughout this entire situation. |
Another load of nonsense. How many times have I condemned Drakeford over allowing 4 to meet in a pub. There are other areas I dont agree with him. His support of Corbyn being another but I totally back his more cautious approach over Johnson's reckless one. I have been saying this since last year. The figures totally support that. A turnaround from over 1000 cases early in the pandemic to 60 in Wales favour now really should speak for itself. When I ws consistently saying last year the daily figures were showing that Drakeford's policies were working and using daily figures Scotia amongst others kept using the gov.uk figures which have been closing all along and now they are lower in Wales than England.
What I do not support is your view that we just open everything. We should be learning from past mistakes. It was the rush to reopen everything that led to the escalation and subsequent lockdown.
There are many things that can be done. There are others that cant because they are far too risky until such time as all the population is vaccinated. | | | |
| Home Rule on 08:16 - Mar 8 with 607 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Home Rule on 21:57 - Mar 7 by Flashberryjack |
God knows what he'll come up with in his next briefing, he needs a haircut and likes to holiday in Pembrokeshire... wonder if that gives us a clue.
One thing I'm sure of, whatever Boris does, he'll do it latter, or differently. |
Yes, Boris is so often wrong isn’t he .... its like he doesn’t care about anyone else ....ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Home Rule on 08:20 - Mar 8 with 606 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Home Rule on 20:50 - Mar 7 by Catullus |
Blooming heck, twice in one day...I agree, better to come out slowly and cautiously then rush it and take steps backwards. We are all fed up of lockdown but baby steps forward are better than making a massive mistake. |
We are on a roll, brawd ....
I must be getting there. 😎 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Home Rule on 09:45 - Mar 8 with 587 views | Catullus |
| Home Rule on 08:20 - Mar 8 by Kilkennyjack |
We are on a roll, brawd ....
I must be getting there. 😎 |
Oh no, I still disagree with independence. | |
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| Home Rule on 10:07 - Mar 8 with 562 views | felixstowe_jack |
Don't forget the PHW site also has the following disclaimer on it.
The deaths within 28 days only includes deaths reported to it from hospitals, and care homes. Deaths in other settings are not recorded but are included elsewhere. | |
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| Home Rule on 10:11 - Mar 8 with 565 views | Catullus |
| Home Rule on 10:07 - Mar 8 by felixstowe_jack |
Don't forget the PHW site also has the following disclaimer on it.
The deaths within 28 days only includes deaths reported to it from hospitals, and care homes. Deaths in other settings are not recorded but are included elsewhere. |
Oh yes, the total number of Welsh Covid deaths is well up over 6000, maybe even over 7000 by now.
It makes things look better to only report the hospital/deaths within 28 days though. | |
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| Home Rule on 11:52 - Mar 8 with 549 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 10:11 - Mar 8 by Catullus |
Oh yes, the total number of Welsh Covid deaths is well up over 6000, maybe even over 7000 by now.
It makes things look better to only report the hospital/deaths within 28 days though. |
You mean your estimated figures that havent been positively identified and include the cases where there was 3 negative tests only to have had covid put on the death certificate. You think these are more accurate than positive tests. | | | |
| Home Rule on 12:53 - Mar 8 with 538 views | Scotia |
| Home Rule on 11:52 - Mar 8 by exhmrc1 |
You mean your estimated figures that havent been positively identified and include the cases where there was 3 negative tests only to have had covid put on the death certificate. You think these are more accurate than positive tests. |
No.
No figures referred to on here are estimates. PHW only include deaths in hospitals and care homes in the 28 day rule and I really don't think Dr's guess what cause of death to put on a death certificate.
Either way, whichever figure is used, our record is deplorable. | | | |
| Home Rule on 13:47 - Mar 8 with 524 views | onehunglow |
Again,why is now a Wales v England debate. | |
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| Home Rule on 14:24 - Mar 8 with 518 views | Catullus |
| Home Rule on 11:52 - Mar 8 by exhmrc1 |
You mean your estimated figures that havent been positively identified and include the cases where there was 3 negative tests only to have had covid put on the death certificate. You think these are more accurate than positive tests. |
No, I mean deaths in Wales where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643
On this it says 7,406 and that was 2 days ago.
Not estimated, not a guess, an official statistic.
PS, I thought you didn't like guessing yet you have guessed that people have had 3 negative tests and then had covid on their certificate. Thus instantly denying a factual staistic you don't like.
How many of the 2000 deaths above PHW figures do you think had 3 negative tests but still had covid as a contributor? All of them, 10 percent...more?
And still ignoring the question about health and travelling.
I tell you what, don't bother. Personally I'd much prefer to shut the airport and spend the money making sure people didn't have to drive those extra miles for healthcare or to visit sick relatives. If driving an extra hour to an airport is what antagonises you then carry on, it says much. [Post edited 8 Mar 2021 14:34]
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| Home Rule on 15:25 - Mar 8 with 511 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 14:24 - Mar 8 by Catullus |
No, I mean deaths in Wales where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643
On this it says 7,406 and that was 2 days ago.
Not estimated, not a guess, an official statistic.
PS, I thought you didn't like guessing yet you have guessed that people have had 3 negative tests and then had covid on their certificate. Thus instantly denying a factual staistic you don't like.
How many of the 2000 deaths above PHW figures do you think had 3 negative tests but still had covid as a contributor? All of them, 10 percent...more?
And still ignoring the question about health and travelling.
I tell you what, don't bother. Personally I'd much prefer to shut the airport and spend the money making sure people didn't have to drive those extra miles for healthcare or to visit sick relatives. If driving an extra hour to an airport is what antagonises you then carry on, it says much. [Post edited 8 Mar 2021 14:34]
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You are talking about ONS statistics. These are based on what is on the death certificate. They HAVE NOT necessarily had a POSITIVE test so it is GUESSWORK. There was a thread on here bu Brit Ferry of a case where someone in a care home had 3 negative tests yet covid was put on the Death certificate. How many more. I prefer to base the figures on actual positive tests where you know somebody actually has had covid rather than a guess where there has been no positive proof. Incidentally so do ALL the governments of the UK and as I understand it other places in the world.
If you look at the article below you will see under the section how many people have died with covid in Wales that the figures refer to Deaths with covid confirmed or SUSPECTED. In other words guesswork. You will also see the figures I use include Deaths with a POSITIVE TEST. These have proven to be COVID. You will also see your system actually has over 2000 more Deaths than the excess Deaths in previous years. The ONS figures are only as good as the information provided and it is clear that many deaths are shown as COVID that arent because of covid. Britferry's threat explained that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643
[Post edited 8 Mar 2021 15:26]
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| Home Rule on 15:33 - Mar 8 with 506 views | exhmrc1 |
| Home Rule on 15:25 - Mar 8 by exhmrc1 |
You are talking about ONS statistics. These are based on what is on the death certificate. They HAVE NOT necessarily had a POSITIVE test so it is GUESSWORK. There was a thread on here bu Brit Ferry of a case where someone in a care home had 3 negative tests yet covid was put on the Death certificate. How many more. I prefer to base the figures on actual positive tests where you know somebody actually has had covid rather than a guess where there has been no positive proof. Incidentally so do ALL the governments of the UK and as I understand it other places in the world.
If you look at the article below you will see under the section how many people have died with covid in Wales that the figures refer to Deaths with covid confirmed or SUSPECTED. In other words guesswork. You will also see the figures I use include Deaths with a POSITIVE TEST. These have proven to be COVID. You will also see your system actually has over 2000 more Deaths than the excess Deaths in previous years. The ONS figures are only as good as the information provided and it is clear that many deaths are shown as COVID that arent because of covid. Britferry's threat explained that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643
[Post edited 8 Mar 2021 15:26]
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Here is the heading
BEL MOONEY: My dad Ted passed three Covid tests and died of a chronic illness yet he's officially one of Britain's 120,000 victims of the virus and is far from alone... so how many more are there? | | | |
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