| Ukraine 09:43 - Apr 15 with 2421 views | britferry |
Looks like things are about to kick off over there... Russkis have troops on the border, USA have ships in the Black Sea (are we still allowed to call it Black???), ok then, the BAME Sea |  |
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| Ukraine on 16:48 - Apr 18 with 422 views | Catullus |
| Ukraine on 11:58 - Apr 18 by controversial_jack |
Everything I post is true and genuine.However, I get most of my info from books, I don't chase internet links as others do. There is so much crap online, it's difficult to get the genuine info and anything can be proven or disproven depending on the bias of the reader. |
It depends on the books too, when were they written and who are the authors? Lots of history books are subjective and lots of facts get disproved and rewritten every day.
If everything is true and genuine there's not much controversy. It's all just opinion. As in my opinion the Russians were as bad as the Germans, a war crime is still a war crime even if it's revenge.
When the Russians murdered thousands of Polish Officers, academics, leaders etc, that was very bad too. | |
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| Ukraine on 23:08 - Apr 18 with 374 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 16:48 - Apr 18 by Catullus |
It depends on the books too, when were they written and who are the authors? Lots of history books are subjective and lots of facts get disproved and rewritten every day.
If everything is true and genuine there's not much controversy. It's all just opinion. As in my opinion the Russians were as bad as the Germans, a war crime is still a war crime even if it's revenge.
When the Russians murdered thousands of Polish Officers, academics, leaders etc, that was very bad too. |
Reputable books are read and reviewed by other historians and experts. No system is perfect, but books have been the main source of learning for centuries, it's how all our experts learned.
A war crime is a war crime of course, but we are discussing degrees of war crimes.
What the Germans did during their invasion of Russia is beyond anything the Russians did in revenge. Don't forget the extermination camps and the network of labour camps they set up throughout Europe.Forced labour is another aspect, where prisoners, detainees, etc were forced to work for the Reich. Don't forget all the villages they razed to the ground as reprisals against resistance in most European countris. Lididce in Czechoslovakia,Oradour-sur-Glane in France, another in the Netherlands - the name escapes me. | | | |
| Ukraine on 08:34 - Apr 19 with 342 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Ukraine on 23:08 - Apr 18 by controversial_jack |
Reputable books are read and reviewed by other historians and experts. No system is perfect, but books have been the main source of learning for centuries, it's how all our experts learned.
A war crime is a war crime of course, but we are discussing degrees of war crimes.
What the Germans did during their invasion of Russia is beyond anything the Russians did in revenge. Don't forget the extermination camps and the network of labour camps they set up throughout Europe.Forced labour is another aspect, where prisoners, detainees, etc were forced to work for the Reich. Don't forget all the villages they razed to the ground as reprisals against resistance in most European countris. Lididce in Czechoslovakia,Oradour-sur-Glane in France, another in the Netherlands - the name escapes me. |
Are you forgetting the death camps set up in Russia by the Russians to kill their own citizens. | |
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| Ukraine on 09:45 - Apr 19 with 327 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 08:34 - Apr 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Are you forgetting the death camps set up in Russia by the Russians to kill their own citizens. |
Not suggesting they were saints, but amateurs compared to the Germans.It was systematic with those b*stards | | | |
| Ukraine on 09:52 - Apr 19 with 325 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Ukraine on 09:45 - Apr 19 by controversial_jack |
Not suggesting they were saints, but amateurs compared to the Germans.It was systematic with those b*stards |
Add in China, pol pot those four countries are beyond the pail.
Fortunately Germany is a new modern country while Russia and China have no rule of law or human rights. | |
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| Ukraine on 10:00 - Apr 19 with 318 views | onehunglow |
| Ukraine on 09:45 - Apr 19 by controversial_jack |
Not suggesting they were saints, but amateurs compared to the Germans.It was systematic with those b*stards |
Stalin murdered more of his own people than Hitler. | |
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| Ukraine on 10:17 - Apr 19 with 308 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 10:00 - Apr 19 by onehunglow |
Stalin murdered more of his own people than Hitler. |
Not even close.
The total figure for the entire Stalinist period is likely between two million and three million. The Great Terror and other shooting actions killed no more than a million people, probably a bit fewer. The largest human catastrophe of Stalinism was the famine of 1930—1933, in which more than five million people died. | | | |
| Ukraine on 11:04 - Apr 19 with 295 views | Catullus |
| Ukraine on 09:45 - Apr 19 by controversial_jack |
Not suggesting they were saints, but amateurs compared to the Germans.It was systematic with those b*stards |
Amateurs compared to the Germans? What the Russiand did was for decades from the 20's until at least 1953. They may have executed or worked to death over one million POW's, they also destroyed entire villages and towns and murdered the men while gang raping the women. They were merciless, a war crime, a crime against humanity, there's no degrees to that, once you hit that level it's all equally bad.
Are you sying the Gulags weren't systematic? And they were in place before Hitler came to power and long after Germany was beaten,
https://www.history.com/topics/russia/gulag#:~:text=At%20its%20height%2C%20the%2
That's over 18 miilion people not forgetting their ethnic cleansing of the Cossacks too,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decossackization
So I'll ask, is 5 years of crimes against humanity worse than 30 years of it? When you try and put the numbers together both Stalin and Hitler were responsible for around 18 million deaths. It's hard to get accurate numbers though because records are patchy, many were destroyed to hide guilt, the true figures could be much higher for both. | |
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| Ukraine on 12:15 - Apr 19 with 282 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 11:04 - Apr 19 by Catullus |
Amateurs compared to the Germans? What the Russiand did was for decades from the 20's until at least 1953. They may have executed or worked to death over one million POW's, they also destroyed entire villages and towns and murdered the men while gang raping the women. They were merciless, a war crime, a crime against humanity, there's no degrees to that, once you hit that level it's all equally bad.
Are you sying the Gulags weren't systematic? And they were in place before Hitler came to power and long after Germany was beaten,
https://www.history.com/topics/russia/gulag#:~:text=At%20its%20height%2C%20the%2
That's over 18 miilion people not forgetting their ethnic cleansing of the Cossacks too,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decossackization
So I'll ask, is 5 years of crimes against humanity worse than 30 years of it? When you try and put the numbers together both Stalin and Hitler were responsible for around 18 million deaths. It's hard to get accurate numbers though because records are patchy, many were destroyed to hide guilt, the true figures could be much higher for both. |
t turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive. Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hitler were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more | | | |
| Ukraine on 13:48 - Apr 19 with 262 views | Catullus |
| Ukraine on 12:15 - Apr 19 by controversial_jack |
t turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive. Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hitler were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more |
That opinion is based on official archival material. Do you really believe the Russians will let the truth out?
I don't. Thye will downplay and deny anything that makes them look bad.
Take that report of the attack on a Czech ammo dump, rubbished by Mother Russia but they suspect the same two men accused of the Salisbury attack.
You can't believe official Ruusian sources. | |
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| Ukraine on 16:13 - Apr 19 with 246 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 13:48 - Apr 19 by Catullus |
That opinion is based on official archival material. Do you really believe the Russians will let the truth out?
I don't. Thye will downplay and deny anything that makes them look bad.
Take that report of the attack on a Czech ammo dump, rubbished by Mother Russia but they suspect the same two men accused of the Salisbury attack.
You can't believe official Ruusian sources. |
I don't believe our sources either. With regard to the Salisbury poisoning. The most toxic substance known to man, where a pin head can kill 10,000 ppl, was left on a door handle? Come on get real, lol. | | | |
| Ukraine on 16:23 - Apr 19 with 244 views | controversial_jack |
| Ukraine on 13:48 - Apr 19 by Catullus |
That opinion is based on official archival material. Do you really believe the Russians will let the truth out?
I don't. Thye will downplay and deny anything that makes them look bad.
Take that report of the attack on a Czech ammo dump, rubbished by Mother Russia but they suspect the same two men accused of the Salisbury attack.
You can't believe official Ruusian sources. |
Today, after two decades of access to Eastern European archives, and thanks to the work of German, Russian, Israeli, and other scholars, we can resolve the question of numbers. The total number of noncombatants killed by the Germans–about 11 million–is roughly what we had thought. The total number of civilians killed by the Soviets, however, is considerably less than we had believed. We know now that the Germans killed more people than the Soviets did. That said, the issue of quality is more complex than was once thought. Mass murder in the Soviet Union sometimes involved motivations, especially national and ethnic ones, that can be disconcertingly close to Nazi motivations. | | | |
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