| Scott and Cooperball 21:53 - Apr 20 with 1602 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
There appears to me to be an issue between Cooper the team manager and Scott the chief recruitment man.
Cooper was given 6 players in January; Morris, Arreola, Hamer, Hourahaine Whittaker Freeman. They looked very good on paper with 4 internationals 3 with numerous caps. So why is the team out on it feet?
With a fatigued squad none were picked today even with Ayew out. Arriola, Hamer and Freeman never realy got a chance Whitaker is not fancied and Hourahnaine does not play well in Cooperball, Manning had to wait for Bidwell to get knankered.
I put it to you that one of them has to go at the end of the season. Cooper loooks serously "old school " to me. He does not play Scott's players. This is a problem. [Post edited 20 Apr 2021 22:54]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 22:50 - Apr 20 with 1215 views | builthjack |
Did Cooper know what players Scott was bringing in ?
Probably not. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Scott and Cooperball on 22:51 - Apr 20 with 1211 views | Treforys_Jack |
It appeared a very good transfer window to be fair. |  | | |
| Scott and Cooperball on 00:51 - Apr 21 with 1137 views | KeithHaynes |
| Scott and Cooperball on 22:50 - Apr 20 by builthjack |
Did Cooper know what players Scott was bringing in ?
Probably not. |
Whittaker I would say yes to. |  |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 16:22 - Apr 22 with 988 views | Catullus |
Cooper has failed to utilise the mentioned players, not even to see if they could cut it. Although obviously there were injuries but, Morris, not used enough, Whittaker, not given a fair chance, Freeman...well I don't need to go on, we all know.
Just why has Cooper kept playing the same players and running them into the ground? Why has he not made more changes when those changes were obvious. Then why, after he had made changes and we won 2 games, why did he go back to previous ways? |  |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 17:46 - Apr 22 with 955 views | Chief |
How many of the players you name were actually identified by Scott?
The two Americans surely weren't. I doubt Hourihane was.
Cooper has previously managed Whittaker.
So that leaves Hamer and Freeman. One was bought as cover for our injured second choice, and Freeman is clearly an emergency squad filler, so not surprising at all that they haven't played.
Manning, Smith, Bidwell, Lowe to me are probably Scott's signings and they play often enough, so i personally do not see an issue between Cooper and Scott. |  |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 19:55 - Apr 22 with 897 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 17:46 - Apr 22 by Chief |
How many of the players you name were actually identified by Scott?
The two Americans surely weren't. I doubt Hourihane was.
Cooper has previously managed Whittaker.
So that leaves Hamer and Freeman. One was bought as cover for our injured second choice, and Freeman is clearly an emergency squad filler, so not surprising at all that they haven't played.
Manning, Smith, Bidwell, Lowe to me are probably Scott's signings and they play often enough, so i personally do not see an issue between Cooper and Scott. |
Cooper has not managed Whittaker but he has worked under Marsh apparently. Whittaker will have been scouted by Scott as a talent with an interesting contract situation. Cooper has no apparent links with Hourahaine. I suspect Scott established his availability and put it to Cooper.
Morris and Arriola might have been discussed last season and may have been scouted (at US instigation). I am all for synergies. Both players had high reputations in the US. DC united have their own recruitment staff and sharing data on players is common sense. Barnsley's rennaissance is off the back of the goals of their US signing Dikes.
I would like to see Swansea 20 year olds playing in the US to get game time. Ollie Cooper and Cullen to a lesser degree must be frustrated as must Brandon who was doing so well at Newport. Ollie has been clicking his heals not trusted by Copper for even 5 miniutes . He is 21. Many seem to think the level is not so high so they should flourish. There was some talk of Garrick going out there for a spell. Very exciting for young players I would think.
Freeman had played twice for Swindon so should have been fit an able to give Connor a break. His form has dipped and talk of "he is a freak" is sloppy and indictes a lack of respect for sports science. Alternatively it could mean Freeman is pretty useless in training and 'unselectable'. This is the responisibilty of Scott. Manning had to wait months and for Bidwell to lose form to get his shot.
The precipitous fall off in form with little rotation indicates and lack of faith in Scott signing and sports science. The players can not longer deliver physically. It is Cooper's job to keep them fresh, He sees to have failed. He appears to have old school ideas from the 1970 and 1980s talking og good old fashioned grit rather than sports science. Nobody actually knows anything of the sports science team. Perhaps they work from home? . | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 20:48 - Apr 22 with 870 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 19:55 - Apr 22 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper has not managed Whittaker but he has worked under Marsh apparently. Whittaker will have been scouted by Scott as a talent with an interesting contract situation. Cooper has no apparent links with Hourahaine. I suspect Scott established his availability and put it to Cooper.
Morris and Arriola might have been discussed last season and may have been scouted (at US instigation). I am all for synergies. Both players had high reputations in the US. DC united have their own recruitment staff and sharing data on players is common sense. Barnsley's rennaissance is off the back of the goals of their US signing Dikes.
I would like to see Swansea 20 year olds playing in the US to get game time. Ollie Cooper and Cullen to a lesser degree must be frustrated as must Brandon who was doing so well at Newport. Ollie has been clicking his heals not trusted by Copper for even 5 miniutes . He is 21. Many seem to think the level is not so high so they should flourish. There was some talk of Garrick going out there for a spell. Very exciting for young players I would think.
Freeman had played twice for Swindon so should have been fit an able to give Connor a break. His form has dipped and talk of "he is a freak" is sloppy and indictes a lack of respect for sports science. Alternatively it could mean Freeman is pretty useless in training and 'unselectable'. This is the responisibilty of Scott. Manning had to wait months and for Bidwell to lose form to get his shot.
The precipitous fall off in form with little rotation indicates and lack of faith in Scott signing and sports science. The players can not longer deliver physically. It is Cooper's job to keep them fresh, He sees to have failed. He appears to have old school ideas from the 1970 and 1980s talking og good old fashioned grit rather than sports science. Nobody actually knows anything of the sports science team. Perhaps they work from home? . |
Cooper was manager of England u17 when Whittaker made his debut for them.
I'm all for using using all the advantages you can. Unfortunately the two Americans we were presented with pale desperately in comparison with Dike who was a proper signing.
There can't have been much scouting of Arriola last season as you suggest. His injury problems mean he hadn't played a full game since October 2019.
Freeman played 160mins across 2 games in January for league 1 Swindon. Prior to that he'd played 6 minutes of League football since April 2019!!!
The Scott / Cooper chasm is a myth. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 21:05]
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| Scott and Cooperball on 22:01 - Apr 22 with 824 views | QJumpingJack |
Maybe Scott will become our next manager? | | | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 22:15 - Apr 22 with 816 views | Chief |
What i don't understand about Scott is that he's worked in recruitment roles at Brentford and Watford now.
Brentford heavily recruit from Europe and specifically Denmark where the owner of Brentford has links. Watford also recruit heavily from Europe, but mainly from Italy / Spain from other clubs that the Pozzi family own.
So does he actually have a track record of identifying young British talent (which we have to do now since Brexit)? Seems previously he's been at clubs where recruitment is mostly driven by the clubs owners.... | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 22:57 - Apr 22 with 789 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 20:48 - Apr 22 by Chief |
Cooper was manager of England u17 when Whittaker made his debut for them.
I'm all for using using all the advantages you can. Unfortunately the two Americans we were presented with pale desperately in comparison with Dike who was a proper signing.
There can't have been much scouting of Arriola last season as you suggest. His injury problems mean he hadn't played a full game since October 2019.
Freeman played 160mins across 2 games in January for league 1 Swindon. Prior to that he'd played 6 minutes of League football since April 2019!!!
The Scott / Cooper chasm is a myth. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 21:05]
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As I stated the club could have used DC united recruitment experts. Morris and Arriola are 26 and fully rounded internationals where as Dike is a young fellow just 20. In logic they would more readily blended in to Championship football. Swansea appeared to get the better deal.
Dike made his US debut coming on for Arriola v Trinidad in 2021 , yet Dike is pulling up trees and Arriola was just 'not up to scratch' . I do no buy it.
We have seen this concept before where good players suddenly have no value despite evidence to the contrary. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 23:13 - Apr 22 with 783 views | Badlands |
Cooper had a major say in the players coming in and going out when Birch was ceo.
But these were mainly kids he or Scott were close to ... that tap ran dry and Cooper had to work with players he didn't know and couldn’t get performances to his standard.
It turned out Arreola, Morris, Hamer, Whittaker and Freeman can only kick a ball 45 metres. |  |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 23:26 - Apr 22 with 776 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 22:57 - Apr 22 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As I stated the club could have used DC united recruitment experts. Morris and Arriola are 26 and fully rounded internationals where as Dike is a young fellow just 20. In logic they would more readily blended in to Championship football. Swansea appeared to get the better deal.
Dike made his US debut coming on for Arriola v Trinidad in 2021 , yet Dike is pulling up trees and Arriola was just 'not up to scratch' . I do no buy it.
We have seen this concept before where good players suddenly have no value despite evidence to the contrary. |
And Dike is frankly already a far better player than Arriola and Morris combined aged just 20. 8 goals in 17 games in the MLS, a 20million dollar option to buy, 9 goals in 16 games for Barnsley and apparently attracting the attention of some of the country's biggest clubs. Speaks for itself. Hes streets ahead of the two crocks - who midway through their careers haven't managed to leave the MLS - Arriola is still at one of the leagues worst teams) we ended up getting. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 23:29]
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| Scott and Cooperball on 06:22 - Apr 23 with 737 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 23:26 - Apr 22 by Chief |
And Dike is frankly already a far better player than Arriola and Morris combined aged just 20. 8 goals in 17 games in the MLS, a 20million dollar option to buy, 9 goals in 16 games for Barnsley and apparently attracting the attention of some of the country's biggest clubs. Speaks for itself. Hes streets ahead of the two crocks - who midway through their careers haven't managed to leave the MLS - Arriola is still at one of the leagues worst teams) we ended up getting. [Post edited 22 Apr 2021 23:29]
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Barnsley actually give him a game did they.
How brave of them. |  | | |
| Scott and Cooperball on 08:03 - Apr 23 with 699 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 06:22 - Apr 23 by 34dfgdf54 |
Barnsley actually give him a game did they.
How brave of them. |
They'd be silly not to with such a player at their disposal. | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 08:57 - Apr 23 with 681 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I didn’t realise we were back to the fatigued thing so quickly. |  |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 12:37 - Apr 23 with 642 views | BillyChong |
| Scott and Cooperball on 22:57 - Apr 22 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As I stated the club could have used DC united recruitment experts. Morris and Arriola are 26 and fully rounded internationals where as Dike is a young fellow just 20. In logic they would more readily blended in to Championship football. Swansea appeared to get the better deal.
Dike made his US debut coming on for Arriola v Trinidad in 2021 , yet Dike is pulling up trees and Arriola was just 'not up to scratch' . I do no buy it.
We have seen this concept before where good players suddenly have no value despite evidence to the contrary. |
Maybe the so called recruitment experts can identify players up to scratch in terms of fitness levels next time. | | | |
| Scott and Cooperball on 12:46 - Apr 23 with 641 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 12:37 - Apr 23 by BillyChong |
Maybe the so called recruitment experts can identify players up to scratch in terms of fitness levels next time. |
Great point. It shouldn't take a recruitment genius to recognise that signing two players with recent serious injury woes in their close season and drop them into the crazy championship schedule might not be the greatest idea.
But i get it..... "SyNyRgY" | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 13:13 - Apr 23 with 621 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 12:46 - Apr 23 by Chief |
Great point. It shouldn't take a recruitment genius to recognise that signing two players with recent serious injury woes in their close season and drop them into the crazy championship schedule might not be the greatest idea.
But i get it..... "SyNyRgY" |
Arriola was fit as was Morris. Fit and very keen to impress. It is very easy to label them as crocks after they have been injured. Running around in UK is the same as in the US.
Freeman also coming back from injury. Cooper did not pick two of them at all. 6 players who made very little contribution while favourites are stale or recovering from fatigue related injurines and associated with a preciitous loss of form.
There must therefore be lessons to learn at the very least hence the "Scott and Cooper ball" post. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 13:50 - Apr 23 with 605 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 13:13 - Apr 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Arriola was fit as was Morris. Fit and very keen to impress. It is very easy to label them as crocks after they have been injured. Running around in UK is the same as in the US.
Freeman also coming back from injury. Cooper did not pick two of them at all. 6 players who made very little contribution while favourites are stale or recovering from fatigue related injurines and associated with a preciitous loss of form.
There must therefore be lessons to learn at the very least hence the "Scott and Cooper ball" post. |
How do you know they were fit?
Cooper explicitly stated that Arriola wasn't up to speed when he arrived.
Just running in the two nations maybe the same. However the running done to get up to a certain level of fitness (exacerbated by an injury lay off) that you would do in the early stages of a pre-season is very different to the running that is required of a championship player in a condensed season in the run in, while challenging for promotion.
Two completely different of match fitness.
"Cooper did not pick two of them at all" patently false.
Again you're forgetting the points we gained while Cooper's supposed favorites played that there's no guarantee we'd have had had he played others. Roberts one of the players you're essentially advocating should have been rested was absolutely instrumental during that period.
There's definitely lessons to be learnt yes. Sign players good enough and fit enough to actually contribute would be a good start. | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 14:30 - Apr 23 with 591 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 13:50 - Apr 23 by Chief |
How do you know they were fit?
Cooper explicitly stated that Arriola wasn't up to speed when he arrived.
Just running in the two nations maybe the same. However the running done to get up to a certain level of fitness (exacerbated by an injury lay off) that you would do in the early stages of a pre-season is very different to the running that is required of a championship player in a condensed season in the run in, while challenging for promotion.
Two completely different of match fitness.
"Cooper did not pick two of them at all" patently false.
Again you're forgetting the points we gained while Cooper's supposed favorites played that there's no guarantee we'd have had had he played others. Roberts one of the players you're essentially advocating should have been rested was absolutely instrumental during that period.
There's definitely lessons to be learnt yes. Sign players good enough and fit enough to actually contribute would be a good start. |
Six players came in and were barely used at all, while the team is suffering from overplaying two with fatigue issues and others badly off form. There can be two reason for this.
a) The players brought in were not good or fit enough to make a contribution even after 3-4 weeks of training.
b) The manger did not fancy the players or simply did not bother with them prefering to over work a smaller resticted player group.
The way I see there has to be an issue between the coach and head of recruitment. The working relationship and mutual understanding has to improve. Some serious discussions are requred at he very least. You say there is not issue but contradict your ownn argument in you last point. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 14:56 - Apr 23 with 583 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Scott and Cooperball on 12:46 - Apr 23 by Chief |
Great point. It shouldn't take a recruitment genius to recognise that signing two players with recent serious injury woes in their close season and drop them into the crazy championship schedule might not be the greatest idea.
But i get it..... "SyNyRgY" |
Signing players in their off season is never a great idea. It “can” work, but rarely.
Especially if people have concerns over fitness levels. How about finishing a season and immediately going into another... | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 15:52 - Apr 23 with 565 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 14:30 - Apr 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Six players came in and were barely used at all, while the team is suffering from overplaying two with fatigue issues and others badly off form. There can be two reason for this.
a) The players brought in were not good or fit enough to make a contribution even after 3-4 weeks of training.
b) The manger did not fancy the players or simply did not bother with them prefering to over work a smaller resticted player group.
The way I see there has to be an issue between the coach and head of recruitment. The working relationship and mutual understanding has to improve. Some serious discussions are requred at he very least. You say there is not issue but contradict your ownn argument in you last point. |
I haven't contradicted anything. My point was i see no problem between Cooper and Scott. That's because the players that i attribute to Scott specifically having a hand in bringing in - Hamer and Freeman are two that obviously brought in as cover, so there's no conspiracy why they haven't played. Ok you could attribute Hourihane to him too but he's played a lot anyway. Whittaker as we've established has played under Cooper before, but the two Americans i doubt were signed under Scott's guidance. | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 16:16 - Apr 23 with 558 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 15:52 - Apr 23 by Chief |
I haven't contradicted anything. My point was i see no problem between Cooper and Scott. That's because the players that i attribute to Scott specifically having a hand in bringing in - Hamer and Freeman are two that obviously brought in as cover, so there's no conspiracy why they haven't played. Ok you could attribute Hourihane to him too but he's played a lot anyway. Whittaker as we've established has played under Cooper before, but the two Americans i doubt were signed under Scott's guidance. |
From Morgan's own words.
“I have a good relationship with Marshy and I know Steve from our time in the England youth ranks, even though he was in charge of the team above my age group."
Of the six that came in only Hourahaine has been a starter and he does not figure in Steve's ideal defensive formation. Either Scott or Cooper have underperformed based on the collapse of the clubs form in recent weeks. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 16:31 - Apr 23 with 552 views | Chief |
| Scott and Cooperball on 16:16 - Apr 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
From Morgan's own words.
“I have a good relationship with Marshy and I know Steve from our time in the England youth ranks, even though he was in charge of the team above my age group."
Of the six that came in only Hourahaine has been a starter and he does not figure in Steve's ideal defensive formation. Either Scott or Cooper have underperformed based on the collapse of the clubs form in recent weeks. |
Yea ok on Whittaker, Cooper / Marsh, not Scott. But it has been stressed that he's for the future anyway, as you've stated an interesting contract situation too good to pass up.
I assumed Hourihane was signed to be the players that we all saw at Barnsley and Villa that drove their teams forward and took games by the scruff of the neck. I don't think Cooper's done anything to inhibit that, but it hasn't happened for some reason. But despite that, he has scored some important goals.
What were really needed was an out and out striker in January. Cooper wanted it but didn't get it. | |
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| Scott and Cooperball on 16:41 - Apr 23 with 547 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Scott and Cooperball on 16:31 - Apr 23 by Chief |
Yea ok on Whittaker, Cooper / Marsh, not Scott. But it has been stressed that he's for the future anyway, as you've stated an interesting contract situation too good to pass up.
I assumed Hourihane was signed to be the players that we all saw at Barnsley and Villa that drove their teams forward and took games by the scruff of the neck. I don't think Cooper's done anything to inhibit that, but it hasn't happened for some reason. But despite that, he has scored some important goals.
What were really needed was an out and out striker in January. Cooper wanted it but didn't get it. |
Where has the story that "Cooper was requesting a centre forward in January" actually come from?. I stated readng this comment around March time. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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