| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... 09:25 - Apr 21 with 2332 views | Chief |
And a few others like Bournemouth are just better than us?
They both have essentially premier league squads. No one could argue we do. We've got some good players so on our day, we have beaten the big boys (at opportune times, albeit when they were weakened), but have been unable to sustain it over a whole season, which is what actually counts.
Do we really need to look for blame amongst the playing /coaching staff? Can't we just accept our position? [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 9:25]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:36 - Apr 21 with 644 views | Badlands |
Since the Luton game we have spaffed 14 relatively easy points which would have us on the same points total as Norwich. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:44 - Apr 21 with 631 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:36 - Apr 21 by Badlands |
Since the Luton game we have spaffed 14 relatively easy points which would have us on the same points total as Norwich. |
Easy points based on our league position and on paper i presume?
How many of those did we actually deserve to win and come away with nothing?
I bet there's points on paper earlier in the season when Watford weren't firing on all cylinders that they think they would have gained too. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:49 - Apr 21 with 622 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:36 - Apr 21 by Badlands |
Since the Luton game we have spaffed 14 relatively easy points which would have us on the same points total as Norwich. |
But then you would have to count all the games Norwich and Watford dropped that they may have thought were easy.
It’s not realistic to expect our club be the only ones unaffected by poor results. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:53 - Apr 21 with 622 views | Badlands |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:44 - Apr 21 by Chief |
Easy points based on our league position and on paper i presume?
How many of those did we actually deserve to win and come away with nothing?
I bet there's points on paper earlier in the season when Watford weren't firing on all cylinders that they think they would have gained too. |
Duh!
Based on our performances throughout the season we should fighting relegation. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:57 - Apr 21 with 622 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:53 - Apr 21 by Badlands |
Duh!
Based on our performances throughout the season we should fighting relegation. |
Let's leave the over-reactions and hysteria out of this thread and stick to realism.
Even though technically you have proved my point. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:00 - Apr 21 with 589 views | onehunglow |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 13:57 - Apr 21 by Chief |
Let's leave the over-reactions and hysteria out of this thread and stick to realism.
Even though technically you have proved my point. |
No.let s not.
Let us truly get emotional and remember how painful and insulting it is to watch this spineless jerk kill our team .
It s about time we got angry instead of posting positive drivel on here .
Remember those positive posts . Nonsense weren’t they. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:08 - Apr 21 with 610 views | A_Fans_Dad |
I remind Chief and Doc again of this graph.
Doc loves stats, so let him argue with those on the Chart.
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:13 - Apr 21 with 611 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:08 - Apr 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
I remind Chief and Doc again of this graph.
Doc loves stats, so let him argue with those on the Chart.
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Yes indeed.
Such graphics prove that as intimated at the start of the thread - Norwich, Watford and probably a few others over the course of a season are better than us. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:30 - Apr 21 with 600 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:13 - Apr 21 by Chief |
Yes indeed.
Such graphics prove that as intimated at the start of the thread - Norwich, Watford and probably a few others over the course of a season are better than us. |
Indeed.
Not sure what they are proving exactly... other than exactly what many of us have been saying.
We have been playing well above our league position for a long time. That will even itself out over the season. Whether it’s 10 defeats in a row on scattered throughout 5 months doesn’t make any difference.
We will end up where we deserve to, which will be 5th/6th id have thought. Which is where many would have guessed we would finish prior to the season starting. [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 14:33]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:35 - Apr 21 with 597 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:13 - Apr 21 by Chief |
Yes indeed.
Such graphics prove that as intimated at the start of the thread - Norwich, Watford and probably a few others over the course of a season are better than us. |
No, it shows that Cooper has squandered all the hard work that the team led by Potter did before he arrived.
It has been downhill virtually every game since he arrived, admittedly a slow decline but a decline none the less.
Follow the links to the actual full size chart to see just how bad it has been and it does not include the last debacles either. | | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:41 - Apr 21 with 594 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:35 - Apr 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, it shows that Cooper has squandered all the hard work that the team led by Potter did before he arrived.
It has been downhill virtually every game since he arrived, admittedly a slow decline but a decline none the less.
Follow the links to the actual full size chart to see just how bad it has been and it does not include the last debacles either. |
Sounds like you are coming to your own conclusion there. That chart is exactly what we have said it would be. A strong start, above our abilities now waning off, especially with no lone striker for so long. How many players did we have from the Potter era at the start of the season? Not many. Cooper and the players got us to where we are whether people like it or not. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:43 - Apr 21 with 597 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:35 - Apr 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, it shows that Cooper has squandered all the hard work that the team led by Potter did before he arrived.
It has been downhill virtually every game since he arrived, admittedly a slow decline but a decline none the less.
Follow the links to the actual full size chart to see just how bad it has been and it does not include the last debacles either. |
I know league tables are relative, but it's one amazing stretch to suggest that a manager whos team is currently sitting 3rd with 3 games left 'squandered' the good work of his successor who never got near 3rd!
[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 14:44]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:53 - Apr 21 with 587 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:43 - Apr 21 by Chief |
I know league tables are relative, but it's one amazing stretch to suggest that a manager whos team is currently sitting 3rd with 3 games left 'squandered' the good work of his successor who never got near 3rd!
[Post edited 21 Apr 2021 14:44]
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You obviously do not understand trajectories and trends then.
You also take no account of how badly other teams have played and how much good luck Cooper had compared to other Swansea managers. | | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 15:00 - Apr 21 with 587 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 14:53 - Apr 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
You obviously do not understand trajectories and trends then.
You also take no account of how badly other teams have played and how much good luck Cooper had compared to other Swansea managers. |
As i say such trajectories are relative. There's clear evidence that certain facets of our game have improved since Potter's tenure. Not all.
But this is not a Cooper defence thread, ive laid out other managers which are more equipped in this division.
Its about the reality of the situation. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 20:11 - Apr 21 with 537 views | Catullus |
That grpah, like other stats, doesn't show the whole truth. We may not have the strength of some other teams on paper but games are not played on paper.
Who gave Leicester much of a chance but they won the EPl all the same, a team is more than stats but it needs a manager who can get the team to play. Even a good team will falter under a manager making bad decisions. Conversely, an average team can succeed if a manager gets it mostly right.
Cooper is as much the problem as anything else. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 20:27 - Apr 21 with 504 views | onehunglow |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 15:00 - Apr 21 by Chief |
As i say such trajectories are relative. There's clear evidence that certain facets of our game have improved since Potter's tenure. Not all.
But this is not a Cooper defence thread, ive laid out other managers which are more equipped in this division.
Its about the reality of the situation. |
Cooper has no defence
Perry Mason and sirjonalot combined wouldn't be able to defend him. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 20:42 - Apr 21 with 512 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 20:11 - Apr 21 by Catullus |
That grpah, like other stats, doesn't show the whole truth. We may not have the strength of some other teams on paper but games are not played on paper.
Who gave Leicester much of a chance but they won the EPl all the same, a team is more than stats but it needs a manager who can get the team to play. Even a good team will falter under a manager making bad decisions. Conversely, an average team can succeed if a manager gets it mostly right.
Cooper is as much the problem as anything else. |
So although you concede our squad isn't as strong as others....
But we are in and around these teams in the league....
So how is the manager a problem? By that logic he's helping us overachieve? | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 23:09 - Apr 22 with 442 views | LittleEnglandJack |
Yes, obviously.
I know there's been a lot of discussion about whether our squad is 'good enough' to be where we are in the league- simply put, no it isn't. We are certainly punching above our weight. Good enough to be in playoff contention, but not for the automatics.
There are plenty of teams lower down the league than us who have what I would say are better squads than ours, and players I'd take in a heartbeat. Even QPR the other night- Chair, Austin, Johansen, Adomah, Dykes. I'd argue they'd all improve us, and QPR are a mid table side (admittedly a couple of those are on loan from prem clubs). Basically, what I'm saying is we're seriously lacking in quality attacking options.
This doesn't excuse Cooper's total shithousery, but there are several clubs below us in this league who aren't relying on a kid and a 36 year old winger as serious options up top, behind two other converted wingers... | | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 00:23 - Apr 23 with 422 views | KeithHaynes |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 23:09 - Apr 22 by LittleEnglandJack |
Yes, obviously.
I know there's been a lot of discussion about whether our squad is 'good enough' to be where we are in the league- simply put, no it isn't. We are certainly punching above our weight. Good enough to be in playoff contention, but not for the automatics.
There are plenty of teams lower down the league than us who have what I would say are better squads than ours, and players I'd take in a heartbeat. Even QPR the other night- Chair, Austin, Johansen, Adomah, Dykes. I'd argue they'd all improve us, and QPR are a mid table side (admittedly a couple of those are on loan from prem clubs). Basically, what I'm saying is we're seriously lacking in quality attacking options.
This doesn't excuse Cooper's total shithousery, but there are several clubs below us in this league who aren't relying on a kid and a 36 year old winger as serious options up top, behind two other converted wingers... |
A very good example of exceeding expectations is McCarthy at Cardiff, his start compared to now is levelling off. Next season he won’t make December. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:39 - Apr 23 with 387 views | monmouth |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 00:23 - Apr 23 by KeithHaynes |
A very good example of exceeding expectations is McCarthy at Cardiff, his start compared to now is levelling off. Next season he won’t make December. |
I thought they played pretty well against Reading and Brentford...a hell of a lot better than we've been playing, and should have had 6 points. They have three winnable games to finish, so I wouldn't be so sure that he'll run out of steam that quickly. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:05 - Apr 23 with 370 views | onehunglow |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 23:09 - Apr 22 by LittleEnglandJack |
Yes, obviously.
I know there's been a lot of discussion about whether our squad is 'good enough' to be where we are in the league- simply put, no it isn't. We are certainly punching above our weight. Good enough to be in playoff contention, but not for the automatics.
There are plenty of teams lower down the league than us who have what I would say are better squads than ours, and players I'd take in a heartbeat. Even QPR the other night- Chair, Austin, Johansen, Adomah, Dykes. I'd argue they'd all improve us, and QPR are a mid table side (admittedly a couple of those are on loan from prem clubs). Basically, what I'm saying is we're seriously lacking in quality attacking options.
This doesn't excuse Cooper's total shithousery, but there are several clubs below us in this league who aren't relying on a kid and a 36 year old winger as serious options up top, behind two other converted wingers... |
I suggested Charlie Austin but was chided as he wasnt
fit enough
fast enough
mobile enough
Yet,he was just the kind of player we needed,not a waif for the future who needs a months long diet of steak,eggs,chips .pizza and ice cream just to make him stay upright.
A centre forward worthty of the name would have seen us promoted BY NOW.
Just have a goal hungry selfish poacher like Austin wo can also stand up to the physical stuff meted out.
Cooper is responsible to recruitment ;he has to be,if not he should walk,as he should have months ago if players were brought in that he didnt rate.
That he didnt proves his cowardice,stubborness ,stupidity and arrogance. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:33 - Apr 23 with 367 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:05 - Apr 23 by onehunglow |
I suggested Charlie Austin but was chided as he wasnt
fit enough
fast enough
mobile enough
Yet,he was just the kind of player we needed,not a waif for the future who needs a months long diet of steak,eggs,chips .pizza and ice cream just to make him stay upright.
A centre forward worthty of the name would have seen us promoted BY NOW.
Just have a goal hungry selfish poacher like Austin wo can also stand up to the physical stuff meted out.
Cooper is responsible to recruitment ;he has to be,if not he should walk,as he should have months ago if players were brought in that he didnt rate.
That he didnt proves his cowardice,stubborness ,stupidity and arrogance. |
I would say almost no managers are responsible for recruitment. They may make recommendations or such like, and if they are available and cheap enough then they may be able to get them.
That's modern football. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:47 - Apr 23 with 363 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:39 - Apr 23 by monmouth |
I thought they played pretty well against Reading and Brentford...a hell of a lot better than we've been playing, and should have had 6 points. They have three winnable games to finish, so I wouldn't be so sure that he'll run out of steam that quickly. |
1 win in 9 for them now (which i believe coincides with them giving Mccarthy a permanent contract). 3 games left against teams fighting relegation all on good form and Mccarthys made noises about playing youngsters now they've got nothing to play for...... | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:21 - Apr 23 with 350 views | onehunglow |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:33 - Apr 23 by Dr_Parnassus |
I would say almost no managers are responsible for recruitment. They may make recommendations or such like, and if they are available and cheap enough then they may be able to get them.
That's modern football. |
"no" managers eh.
I cant beat that. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:50 - Apr 23 with 345 views | Thornburyswan |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 20:42 - Apr 21 by Chief |
So although you concede our squad isn't as strong as others....
But we are in and around these teams in the league....
So how is the manager a problem? By that logic he's helping us overachieve? |
Interesting debate & I suspect if any of us had spent this season to date on Mars with no access to satellite sport or social media & had just returned to see the league with 3 games to go we’d be very pleased with progress from last season.
Unfortunately we weren’t on Mars & have had to suffer through the 43 games to date, where I suspect - before anyone gets excited this is a gut feel - we’ve have not played well & won on more than 6/7 of those 43 games. So whilst I am a fully paid up member of the league doesn’t lie & come season end you finish where you deserve too (give or take a place or two) let’s just say our results & points collected are well ahead of our quality of both play & squad - not in itself a huge issue but will always make you vulnerable to a more significant decline in future seasons e.g. Premiership decline once we changed style under Monk’s tenure.
As long as we either avoid defeat on Sunday or pick something up mid-week against Derby we will make the play-offs, probably 6th or at best 5th, but I would give us a at best 1 in 10 chance of succeeding vs Bournemouth or Brentford in a two leg semi (that improves to a 1 in 4/5 in a one off match) so for me the ‘manager issue’ is more about next season once we exit the play-offs. | | | |
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