| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... 09:25 - Apr 21 with 2326 views | Chief |
And a few others like Bournemouth are just better than us?
They both have essentially premier league squads. No one could argue we do. We've got some good players so on our day, we have beaten the big boys (at opportune times, albeit when they were weakened), but have been unable to sustain it over a whole season, which is what actually counts.
Do we really need to look for blame amongst the playing /coaching staff? Can't we just accept our position? [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 9:25]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:32 - Apr 21 with 1243 views | 9MilesHigh |
Could it be you feel slightly isolated in your fawning over a manager thats killed our football?
You've realized its only you, Rain Man and Action Zones left.
The other alternative of calling out Cooper-ball would be akin to the man himself ever coming out and taking any sort of blame. |  | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:32 - Apr 21 with 1250 views | Dr_Parnassus |
How refreshing to read, my thoughts exactly.
We live in a blame culture where everything is instant gratification or it isn’t good enough.
Cooper does a few things I don’t agree with too. But I couldn’t think of a realistic alternative that has a better record faced with the limited situation we are faced with. How much better are we expecting to be exactly? Does anyone really think we “should” be top 2?
Comparing us with Norwich, Watford and Bournemouth is crazy when you look at it, it’s barely comparable yet we are still there or there abouts with them. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:36 - Apr 21 with 1240 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:32 - Apr 21 by 9MilesHigh |
Could it be you feel slightly isolated in your fawning over a manager thats killed our football?
You've realized its only you, Rain Man and Action Zones left.
The other alternative of calling out Cooper-ball would be akin to the man himself ever coming out and taking any sort of blame. |
I'm just being realistic. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:42 - Apr 21 with 1226 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:36 - Apr 21 by Chief |
I'm just being realistic. |
If the multitude of gripes Swans fans have raised since January mean nothing at all to you then fair enough.
If the fact that we looked so much better than Watford, beat Norwich at home and were the better side away also mean nothing then maybe you're just looking to make excuses to save face.
Why change the approach from the Millwall and Sheff Weds games, start there.... | | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:43 - Apr 21 with 1232 views | Thornburyswan |
Could be but I suspect it’s at least a few more than that plus our lack of options for the final third of the pitch - for me options are :-
1. Exit Cooper & his team plus all loanees and players ending their contracts in June & go for full rebuild under new gaffer - expensive & higher risk/reward route.
2. Stick with Cooper & re-jig loanees plus use the freed up exit wages money to re-invest to at best get a upper mid-table side with outside shot at play-offs or at worst bottom 6/8 side and potential relegation side - difference will come from how well we replace Ayew, Guehi, Nauts plus I guess likely Roberts sale - cheaper option so more sustainable but significantly less likely to achieve promotion.
Wider concern for 2 is does anyone really believe Cooper can coach a better playing style & if we started to struggle and dropped towards bottom 4 could he turn that around. |  | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:44 - Apr 21 with 1230 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:42 - Apr 21 by 9MilesHigh |
If the multitude of gripes Swans fans have raised since January mean nothing at all to you then fair enough.
If the fact that we looked so much better than Watford, beat Norwich at home and were the better side away also mean nothing then maybe you're just looking to make excuses to save face.
Why change the approach from the Millwall and Sheff Weds games, start there.... |
It doesn't mean nothing. As i stated in my original post there have been times this season where we have competed with them....
But as i say, it's maintaining it for as much of the season as possible that's been the issue....
But that's football. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:48 - Apr 21 with 1187 views | onehunglow |
Yes we can blame them,as you put it.
There is nowt wrong with fans blaming managers. Its what happen.
This is our club.our dreams lie embedded in the club.Cooper is killing us. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:56 - Apr 21 with 1202 views | monmouth |
Had to laugh at the OP.
Mate with this manager, QPR, Wycombe, Hudds, Coventry, Forest, Luton, Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Blackburn and Derby are also much better than us, even though we've spawned undeserved wins against a few.
He's utter dogshit. |  |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:01 - Apr 21 with 1197 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:56 - Apr 21 by monmouth |
Had to laugh at the OP.
Mate with this manager, QPR, Wycombe, Hudds, Coventry, Forest, Luton, Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Blackburn and Derby are also much better than us, even though we've spawned undeserved wins against a few.
He's utter dogshit. |
The year we went up under Brendan, we lost to Scunthorpe, Preston, Cardiff, Leyton Orient, QPR (4-0), Wigan etc
That’s football. Especially championship football, and that is the greatest football league team with the greatest manager we have probably ever had.
Yet we still finished 3rd on 80 points. We are 5 points away from reaching that. You have to look at the season as a whole because we will always lose unexpectedly and will always win unexpectedly. [Post edited 21 Apr 2021 10:15]
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:11 - Apr 21 with 1176 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:56 - Apr 21 by monmouth |
Had to laugh at the OP.
Mate with this manager, QPR, Wycombe, Hudds, Coventry, Forest, Luton, Cardiff, Middlesbrough, Blackburn and Derby are also much better than us, even though we've spawned undeserved wins against a few.
He's utter dogshit. |
Yet we're still third....
This is how football over the course of a whole season works, and you're actually proving my point. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:16 - Apr 21 with 1167 views | Catullus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 09:32 - Apr 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
How refreshing to read, my thoughts exactly.
We live in a blame culture where everything is instant gratification or it isn’t good enough.
Cooper does a few things I don’t agree with too. But I couldn’t think of a realistic alternative that has a better record faced with the limited situation we are faced with. How much better are we expecting to be exactly? Does anyone really think we “should” be top 2?
Comparing us with Norwich, Watford and Bournemouth is crazy when you look at it, it’s barely comparable yet we are still there or there abouts with them. |
That's just you trying to shore up your untenable position.
If the relegated (from the EPL) teams are so strong why do they only go straight back up 28% of the time?
If what you say is the case then all 3 relegated teams would always go back up making the EPL virtaully a closed shop. You like stats,
https://www.thestatszone.com/archive/promotion-and-relegation-in-english-footbal
It's not about instant gratification either, we are talking about a whole season where for 5 months we were very good but for the last 2 we have been utter rubbish (mostly) and we have given very valid reasons why we have been rubbish.
The "realisitc alternative" as you put it, he (or maybe she?) doesn't have to have a better record. Did Rodgers have a better record, did Martinez?
We don't expect instant reward but we do expect players to work hard, to be able to pass to each other. WE don't expect a top 2 finish but when we put ourselves into a certain position we didn't expect it to now look like our own manager is trying to sabotage us!
Tell me, who else do we blame for Routledge starting? Who do we blame for Whittaker not coming on until the 86th minute? Who do we blame for the team selection, for the tactics, for the game management?
At home against a team with nothing but pride to play for in a game we had to win we managed 41% possession, we managed 11 shots 2 on target against QPR's 21 and 7 on target. We kept both our promising young strikers on the bench until the 71st and 86th minutes despite our not being able to hit a barn door with a blunderbuss! | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:22 - Apr 21 with 1156 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:16 - Apr 21 by Catullus |
That's just you trying to shore up your untenable position.
If the relegated (from the EPL) teams are so strong why do they only go straight back up 28% of the time?
If what you say is the case then all 3 relegated teams would always go back up making the EPL virtaully a closed shop. You like stats,
https://www.thestatszone.com/archive/promotion-and-relegation-in-english-footbal
It's not about instant gratification either, we are talking about a whole season where for 5 months we were very good but for the last 2 we have been utter rubbish (mostly) and we have given very valid reasons why we have been rubbish.
The "realisitc alternative" as you put it, he (or maybe she?) doesn't have to have a better record. Did Rodgers have a better record, did Martinez?
We don't expect instant reward but we do expect players to work hard, to be able to pass to each other. WE don't expect a top 2 finish but when we put ourselves into a certain position we didn't expect it to now look like our own manager is trying to sabotage us!
Tell me, who else do we blame for Routledge starting? Who do we blame for Whittaker not coming on until the 86th minute? Who do we blame for the team selection, for the tactics, for the game management?
At home against a team with nothing but pride to play for in a game we had to win we managed 41% possession, we managed 11 shots 2 on target against QPR's 21 and 7 on target. We kept both our promising young strikers on the bench until the 71st and 86th minutes despite our not being able to hit a barn door with a blunderbuss! |
But you have to admit that the relegated teams we're competing against this seasons are particularly strong? Once Norwich have been consistent all season besides a dip when we beat them&Watford since their new manager has come has got the likes of 35mill Sarr playing in a team that's a run away train that even we had Pep in charge couldn't realistically have kept pace with. Bournemouths recent form is also frightening, as is their squad.
2 promising players with how many league goals to their name???
How many goals does Charlie Austin who came on QPR have to his tally? | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:25 - Apr 21 with 1154 views | pencoedjack |
Good post Chief.
We are now a club living within our means & don't have the luxury of the PL squads that the clubs you mentioned have.
That said Cooper (as other managers do) has made mistakes. |  | | |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:25 - Apr 21 with 1154 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:16 - Apr 21 by Catullus |
That's just you trying to shore up your untenable position.
If the relegated (from the EPL) teams are so strong why do they only go straight back up 28% of the time?
If what you say is the case then all 3 relegated teams would always go back up making the EPL virtaully a closed shop. You like stats,
https://www.thestatszone.com/archive/promotion-and-relegation-in-english-footbal
It's not about instant gratification either, we are talking about a whole season where for 5 months we were very good but for the last 2 we have been utter rubbish (mostly) and we have given very valid reasons why we have been rubbish.
The "realisitc alternative" as you put it, he (or maybe she?) doesn't have to have a better record. Did Rodgers have a better record, did Martinez?
We don't expect instant reward but we do expect players to work hard, to be able to pass to each other. WE don't expect a top 2 finish but when we put ourselves into a certain position we didn't expect it to now look like our own manager is trying to sabotage us!
Tell me, who else do we blame for Routledge starting? Who do we blame for Whittaker not coming on until the 86th minute? Who do we blame for the team selection, for the tactics, for the game management?
At home against a team with nothing but pride to play for in a game we had to win we managed 41% possession, we managed 11 shots 2 on target against QPR's 21 and 7 on target. We kept both our promising young strikers on the bench until the 71st and 86th minutes despite our not being able to hit a barn door with a blunderbuss! |
Which part of my position is untenable?
My position is we aren’t very good, have glaring weaknesses in our squad and performing above our level to be 3rd. What’s untenable about that?
I don’t understand what point you are making there Cat. I haven’t said anything about relegates teams in general, I have specific examples of teams.
Many relegated teams struggle to go back up because their teams are smashed to bits in firesales, add us to that.
Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth have largely kept their Premier League squads together.
Norwich sold 2 defenders, and that was about it. Bournemouth sold 3 main players.
The year we went down we sold about 9/10 first teamers and regular squad players. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:32 - Apr 21 with 1142 views | builthjack |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:25 - Apr 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which part of my position is untenable?
My position is we aren’t very good, have glaring weaknesses in our squad and performing above our level to be 3rd. What’s untenable about that?
I don’t understand what point you are making there Cat. I haven’t said anything about relegates teams in general, I have specific examples of teams.
Many relegated teams struggle to go back up because their teams are smashed to bits in firesales, add us to that.
Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth have largely kept their Premier League squads together.
Norwich sold 2 defenders, and that was about it. Bournemouth sold 3 main players.
The year we went down we sold about 9/10 first teamers and regular squad players. |
Then carried on selling our crown jewels. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:34 - Apr 21 with 1144 views | Catullus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:22 - Apr 21 by Chief |
But you have to admit that the relegated teams we're competing against this seasons are particularly strong? Once Norwich have been consistent all season besides a dip when we beat them&Watford since their new manager has come has got the likes of 35mill Sarr playing in a team that's a run away train that even we had Pep in charge couldn't realistically have kept pace with. Bournemouths recent form is also frightening, as is their squad.
2 promising players with how many league goals to their name???
How many goals does Charlie Austin who came on QPR have to his tally? |
There is usually a team who are strong all through, we knew Norwich had a strong squad. Even so we gave them 2 good games because we were also good. When things started to go bad Cooper did nothing to change it. Then when he eventually changed it and we won 2 games, he went back to his old plan and now.....
Bournemouth were rubbish for 2 months, until they beat us. Another game we lost with a whimper.
Those 2 promising players, not many goals no but how can they score from the bench? Between the 2 of them last night they got 23 minutes, not much chance there either.
Charlie Austin has been an EFL player since 2009, has 437 appearances, you can't compare that to players who aren't being given a fair crack!
Look at Morris, he looked capable but was rarely used, then the injury. It's been mismanagement over a period of months. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:43 - Apr 21 with 1136 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:32 - Apr 21 by builthjack |
Then carried on selling our crown jewels. |
Yep, sadly the longer you stay in the PL the more expensive it becomes.
If you go up and come down after a season or 2, wage bill only tends to go up to 50/60m. By the end ours was 92m.
If you want to have success then you have to pay for it, we are paying for it now. I wouldn’t swap it though, not many fans of clubs like ours will experience what we did.
If being 3rd in the Championship with an average team and a whole load of rebuilding is the cost, I’ll take that. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:48 - Apr 21 with 1129 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:34 - Apr 21 by Catullus |
There is usually a team who are strong all through, we knew Norwich had a strong squad. Even so we gave them 2 good games because we were also good. When things started to go bad Cooper did nothing to change it. Then when he eventually changed it and we won 2 games, he went back to his old plan and now.....
Bournemouth were rubbish for 2 months, until they beat us. Another game we lost with a whimper.
Those 2 promising players, not many goals no but how can they score from the bench? Between the 2 of them last night they got 23 minutes, not much chance there either.
Charlie Austin has been an EFL player since 2009, has 437 appearances, you can't compare that to players who aren't being given a fair crack!
Look at Morris, he looked capable but was rarely used, then the injury. It's been mismanagement over a period of months. |
Yes, two good games and we beat them without Buendia which if you look at Norwichs results without him are night and day. So as i say, we're good enough to be third but not good enough to disrupt the top two although we've given it a good go.
Again, Bournemouth are far better than us on paper and now they're showing it on the pitch too. We were fortunate in the home game to get a point.
Yea I'm not saying Cooper couldn't have done things differently, but let's be realistic about the options available to him. There's been games where he's used Whittaker and it hasn't worked for example. We don't know how fit Cullen is. We weren't getting balls in decent positions up the pitch for those two to benefit anyway. So even if they'd come on and scored the narrative would be 'Cooper got lucky'. There still wouldn't be any realism or respect.
Morris was in his close season when he arrived so how much more minutes he could have had i don't know.
But these are gripes isolated to attacking options none of which let's face it match up to our competitors. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:59 - Apr 21 with 1118 views | Catullus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:25 - Apr 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which part of my position is untenable?
My position is we aren’t very good, have glaring weaknesses in our squad and performing above our level to be 3rd. What’s untenable about that?
I don’t understand what point you are making there Cat. I haven’t said anything about relegates teams in general, I have specific examples of teams.
Many relegated teams struggle to go back up because their teams are smashed to bits in firesales, add us to that.
Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth have largely kept their Premier League squads together.
Norwich sold 2 defenders, and that was about it. Bournemouth sold 3 main players.
The year we went down we sold about 9/10 first teamers and regular squad players. |
Instant gratification, we're talking about the whole season not anything instant.
We're not that good, we had been good or at least succesful for a large chunk of the season with our recent failures being mostly down to the managers attitude
Squad weaknesses? We are short of a decent striker but we had the strongest defence in the entire league for a long while and our midfiled was very effective, we arguably are only weak in the striker role and yet Cooper won't play the striker we do have.
We are not performing above our level, we are performing below the levels we set before Christmas. We have only been poor since February really. Until then we were very strong in defence if not prolific scorers but we were succeeeding. If our manager wasn't so negative maybe we wouldn't be this poor.
Stats tell part of the story but not the whole story. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:08 - Apr 21 with 1106 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:59 - Apr 21 by Catullus |
Instant gratification, we're talking about the whole season not anything instant.
We're not that good, we had been good or at least succesful for a large chunk of the season with our recent failures being mostly down to the managers attitude
Squad weaknesses? We are short of a decent striker but we had the strongest defence in the entire league for a long while and our midfiled was very effective, we arguably are only weak in the striker role and yet Cooper won't play the striker we do have.
We are not performing above our level, we are performing below the levels we set before Christmas. We have only been poor since February really. Until then we were very strong in defence if not prolific scorers but we were succeeeding. If our manager wasn't so negative maybe we wouldn't be this poor.
Stats tell part of the story but not the whole story. |
Well then over the whole season we are 3rd.
We have huge squad weaknesses. We have a right back as a CB, no lone striker often having to play wingers, a weak and inexperienced goal keeper and a bench only a mother could love.
The fact we have had a 36 year old Routledge come into the side and at one point classed as our saviour says all you need to know about the strength of our squad. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:21 - Apr 21 with 1091 views | Catullus |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:48 - Apr 21 by Chief |
Yes, two good games and we beat them without Buendia which if you look at Norwichs results without him are night and day. So as i say, we're good enough to be third but not good enough to disrupt the top two although we've given it a good go.
Again, Bournemouth are far better than us on paper and now they're showing it on the pitch too. We were fortunate in the home game to get a point.
Yea I'm not saying Cooper couldn't have done things differently, but let's be realistic about the options available to him. There's been games where he's used Whittaker and it hasn't worked for example. We don't know how fit Cullen is. We weren't getting balls in decent positions up the pitch for those two to benefit anyway. So even if they'd come on and scored the narrative would be 'Cooper got lucky'. There still wouldn't be any realism or respect.
Morris was in his close season when he arrived so how much more minutes he could have had i don't know.
But these are gripes isolated to attacking options none of which let's face it match up to our competitors. |
Those games where he used Whittaker though, he used him out wide and played a wide player through the middle. Didn't we bring the lad here as a striker?
I'm glad Cullen is fit now anyway and he should start now, we should be looking for through balls to him so he can shoot, he's a poacher not a CF and we need to play to his strengths. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:24 - Apr 21 with 1088 views | Chief |
I will also say that our manager in his second season of senior football in reality certainly doesn't stand up against the experience at this level or higher than Farke, Frank, Ismael, Xisco, not Woodgate (although the quality of this squad his pulling through).
Its not just the playing squad my original post relates to.
Would appointing anyone else (&therefore in all likelihood removing the England youth players like Guehi) in the same pay bracket realistically make up the 9 point deficit to Watford? Also considering we've had some luck this season too so that margin should / could be wider.
I think we'd have to have been incredibly lucky to have appointed someone else under the same parameters who'd have us closer or in the top 2. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:51 - Apr 21 with 1076 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:24 - Apr 21 by Chief |
I will also say that our manager in his second season of senior football in reality certainly doesn't stand up against the experience at this level or higher than Farke, Frank, Ismael, Xisco, not Woodgate (although the quality of this squad his pulling through).
Its not just the playing squad my original post relates to.
Would appointing anyone else (&therefore in all likelihood removing the England youth players like Guehi) in the same pay bracket realistically make up the 9 point deficit to Watford? Also considering we've had some luck this season too so that margin should / could be wider.
I think we'd have to have been incredibly lucky to have appointed someone else under the same parameters who'd have us closer or in the top 2. |
Cooper and Franck have very similar CVs . Franck one season more experience where he had a bit of a struggle in his first season. (You may remember the boxing day win 3-0 up after 20 mins at Brentford).
Franck managed Danish u18 teams and lower ages. Francks s teams show Francks identity. Franck is tailor made for Swansea. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:05 - Apr 21 with 1067 views | Chief |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 11:51 - Apr 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper and Franck have very similar CVs . Franck one season more experience where he had a bit of a struggle in his first season. (You may remember the boxing day win 3-0 up after 20 mins at Brentford).
Franck managed Danish u18 teams and lower ages. Francks s teams show Francks identity. Franck is tailor made for Swansea. |
You also fail to mention that Frank did manage one of Denmarks biggest clubs in Brondby for over 2 seasons. Plus he was part of the Brentford staff playing in the championship for over 2 seasons before he took over as manager. So he obviously does have far more senior football pedigree than Cooper. | |
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| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 12:13 - Apr 21 with 1058 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Could it just be that Norwich&Watford...... on 10:32 - Apr 21 by builthjack |
Then carried on selling our crown jewels. |
For you to have a Club to follow you berk | | | |
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