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The leaders debate 21:56 - Apr 29 with 1394 viewsCatullus

I've watched this tonight and I knwo I've been saying it anyway BUt, has anyone else watched this and thought NONE of them are worth voting for.

I had a leaflet through today from "Gwlad" and I think I'll have to vote for them because they are concentrating on local issues and the candidate is local too.

Honest question, has anyone else noticed RT Davies rarely blinks, he looks permanently stunned!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The leaders debate on 22:07 - Apr 29 with 890 viewsraynor94

They had 30 seconds to make an opening speech.

Adam Price couldn't manage it without reading from his notes

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
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The leaders debate on 23:10 - Apr 29 with 848 viewstrampie

No surprise Cat is looking at a right wing party (Gwlad) or one with lots of kippers (Abolish).

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The leaders debate on 23:15 - Apr 29 with 843 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Gwlad Cat?

Committed to Welsh independence including its own currency.

You surprise me.

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The leaders debate on 23:16 - Apr 29 with 834 viewstrampie

The leaders debate on 23:15 - Apr 29 by Joe_bradshaw

Gwlad Cat?

Committed to Welsh independence including its own currency.

You surprise me.


It's Jaco's crowd.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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The leaders debate on 07:01 - Apr 30 with 796 viewsCountyJim

RT is with out doubt thicker than a Gurkhas foreskin
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The leaders debate on 07:04 - Apr 30 with 794 viewsbuilthjack

The leaders debate on 07:01 - Apr 30 by CountyJim

RT is with out doubt thicker than a Gurkhas foreskin


The thickest i have come across for many a year Jim. Rentagob.

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The leaders debate on 08:22 - Apr 30 with 770 viewsKilkennyjack

The leaders debate on 22:07 - Apr 29 by raynor94

They had 30 seconds to make an opening speech.

Adam Price couldn't manage it without reading from his notes


Adam Price bossed the whole thing.
He even praised Prof Drakers.

Lib dem leader also did well when allowed to speak.

Plaid it is then bois bach. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Lets give fatty Johnson something else to think about.

Beware of the Risen People

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The leaders debate on 08:58 - Apr 30 with 749 viewsScotia

The entire thing was embarrassing.

Forget where we would get the NHS, economy, currency and armed forces from in an independent Wales.

Where would we find a decent politician?
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The leaders debate on 09:30 - Apr 30 with 732 viewsjohnlangy

The leaders debate on 08:58 - Apr 30 by Scotia

The entire thing was embarrassing.

Forget where we would get the NHS, economy, currency and armed forces from in an independent Wales.

Where would we find a decent politician?


We are currently paying £2 billion toward the cost of the UK armed forces.
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The leaders debate on 09:37 - Apr 30 with 725 viewsCatullus

The leaders debate on 23:15 - Apr 29 by Joe_bradshaw

Gwlad Cat?

Committed to Welsh independence including its own currency.

You surprise me.


Purely because they are looking at local issues. They have no chance of gaining control of the Senedd. In the absense of a decent choice look local, do the best for your own area.

Trampie, you can continue to call me right wing all you like, must have missed my responses to Ajackerouac and Dr Parnassus. Like I've said, you call anyone to the right of you right wing and that covers a lot of territory.

PS, you must have been missing or ignoring my comments about RT Davies too. Maybe because you're blinkered, or have tunnel vision. You see what you want to see.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The leaders debate on 10:00 - Apr 30 with 711 viewsScotia

The leaders debate on 09:30 - Apr 30 by johnlangy

We are currently paying £2 billion toward the cost of the UK armed forces.


Good.
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The leaders debate on 10:15 - Apr 30 with 704 viewsraynor94

The leaders debate on 08:22 - Apr 30 by Kilkennyjack

Adam Price bossed the whole thing.
He even praised Prof Drakers.

Lib dem leader also did well when allowed to speak.

Plaid it is then bois bach. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Lets give fatty Johnson something else to think about.


Well, let's see if Plaid can get more seats than the Conservatives

You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
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The leaders debate on 10:20 - Apr 30 with 703 viewsCatullus

The leaders debate on 09:30 - Apr 30 by johnlangy

We are currently paying £2 billion toward the cost of the UK armed forces.


Ap Iorwerth said to me that we'd save 1 billion there, that was all he could muster on finances. He couldn't tell me how much tax Wales raises thats credited to England.

Mind you, I don't see why an indy Wales needs any armed forces. Why spend 1 billion on something we'd never use, it's as bad as Trident to me, spend it on the schools, police and NHS. I mean, if somebody nukes England what are we going to do?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The leaders debate on 11:54 - Apr 30 with 682 viewsScotia

The leaders debate on 09:37 - Apr 30 by Catullus

Purely because they are looking at local issues. They have no chance of gaining control of the Senedd. In the absense of a decent choice look local, do the best for your own area.

Trampie, you can continue to call me right wing all you like, must have missed my responses to Ajackerouac and Dr Parnassus. Like I've said, you call anyone to the right of you right wing and that covers a lot of territory.

PS, you must have been missing or ignoring my comments about RT Davies too. Maybe because you're blinkered, or have tunnel vision. You see what you want to see.


Is one of the Gwlad candidates named Sian Caiach?
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The leaders debate on 12:41 - Apr 30 with 662 viewsjohnlangy

The leaders debate on 10:20 - Apr 30 by Catullus

Ap Iorwerth said to me that we'd save 1 billion there, that was all he could muster on finances. He couldn't tell me how much tax Wales raises thats credited to England.

Mind you, I don't see why an indy Wales needs any armed forces. Why spend 1 billion on something we'd never use, it's as bad as Trident to me, spend it on the schools, police and NHS. I mean, if somebody nukes England what are we going to do?


I made the comment about the amount Wales pays toward the UK army in reply to scotia saying 'Forget where we would get the NHS, economy, currency and armed forces from in an independent Wales'.

His response was 'good'. I expected more.

The point I was making is that this shows an Independent Wales could certainly afford a Wales army/defense force if we are currently paying so much toward the UK army. And RAI said rightly we wouldn't be spending anything like that much, probably no more than £300 million.

The question about how much Welsh tax is credited to England is a huge one so no wonder he didn't answer. Someone would have to approach every company who registers ALL their UK VAT/CORP tax at their England HQ's and ask them to give the info. Then they'd have to approach the DOT for the info re Welsh Car Tax and God knows how many other prganisations who work in a similar way. I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to have that info to hand.

I think it IS reasonable when I and many others say that the amounts we're talking about is in the billions. How many billions isn't as important as accepting the general point that it's a huge amount. And when that amount is taken into account the so called deficit of £13 billion suddenly becomes much smaller. Then remove the Welsh investment in English infrastructure, then remove the £1.5 billion or so from our defence costs and all of a sudden things look very different.
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The leaders debate on 12:41 - Apr 30 with 662 viewsfelixstowe_jack

The leaders debate on 11:54 - Apr 30 by Scotia

Is one of the Gwlad candidates named Sian Caiach?


Not one of the candidates explained how Wales would survive without the annual 9 billion UK taxpayers subsidy.

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The leaders debate on 13:01 - Apr 30 with 654 viewsScotia

The leaders debate on 12:41 - Apr 30 by johnlangy

I made the comment about the amount Wales pays toward the UK army in reply to scotia saying 'Forget where we would get the NHS, economy, currency and armed forces from in an independent Wales'.

His response was 'good'. I expected more.

The point I was making is that this shows an Independent Wales could certainly afford a Wales army/defense force if we are currently paying so much toward the UK army. And RAI said rightly we wouldn't be spending anything like that much, probably no more than £300 million.

The question about how much Welsh tax is credited to England is a huge one so no wonder he didn't answer. Someone would have to approach every company who registers ALL their UK VAT/CORP tax at their England HQ's and ask them to give the info. Then they'd have to approach the DOT for the info re Welsh Car Tax and God knows how many other prganisations who work in a similar way. I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to have that info to hand.

I think it IS reasonable when I and many others say that the amounts we're talking about is in the billions. How many billions isn't as important as accepting the general point that it's a huge amount. And when that amount is taken into account the so called deficit of £13 billion suddenly becomes much smaller. Then remove the Welsh investment in English infrastructure, then remove the £1.5 billion or so from our defence costs and all of a sudden things look very different.


You didn't get more because I because I think the cost represents good value. It's about considerably more than paying for armed forces.

We clearly need some form of defence force, both land, air and sea. How much would setting that up from scratch cost alone?

The status quo is us having 10's of thousands of Welsh people who have chosen careers in the armed forces, I'd guess a lot more than we would need or could afford in any Welsh armed forces.

Not to mention the huge inward investment from the MoD spent in Wales. That would disappear too. In fact that totals approximately £1 billion in it's own right.

I don't believe for a second that Wales actually pays £1 billion pounds directly to the MoD. If we do, we get it back.
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The leaders debate on 13:16 - Apr 30 with 645 viewsKilkennyjack

The leaders debate on 13:01 - Apr 30 by Scotia

You didn't get more because I because I think the cost represents good value. It's about considerably more than paying for armed forces.

We clearly need some form of defence force, both land, air and sea. How much would setting that up from scratch cost alone?

The status quo is us having 10's of thousands of Welsh people who have chosen careers in the armed forces, I'd guess a lot more than we would need or could afford in any Welsh armed forces.

Not to mention the huge inward investment from the MoD spent in Wales. That would disappear too. In fact that totals approximately £1 billion in it's own right.

I don't believe for a second that Wales actually pays £1 billion pounds directly to the MoD. If we do, we get it back.


Cymru does not need an army.

Police will do fine.

We can spend the money on giving our people life opportunities instead.

Also no need to contribute to the English National Ballet etc. Currently £50m per annum.

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The leaders debate on 13:38 - Apr 30 with 639 viewsCountyJim

The leaders debate on 13:16 - Apr 30 by Kilkennyjack

Cymru does not need an army.

Police will do fine.

We can spend the money on giving our people life opportunities instead.

Also no need to contribute to the English National Ballet etc. Currently £50m per annum.


Not up to speed on this it's not a trick question but don't we in Wales get more money off Westminster than we give back
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The leaders debate on 13:39 - Apr 30 with 639 viewsScotia

The leaders debate on 13:16 - Apr 30 by Kilkennyjack

Cymru does not need an army.

Police will do fine.

We can spend the money on giving our people life opportunities instead.

Also no need to contribute to the English National Ballet etc. Currently £50m per annum.


So the police could protect fisheries 30 miles from the Welsh coast?

Could the police distribute the Covid vaccine and man mass vaccination centres?

How about interrupting drug supplies in the Caribbean that are destined for Cardiff?

How about peace keeping as part of the UN?

I think our armed forces are great value for money.
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The leaders debate on 14:44 - Apr 30 with 623 viewsjohnlangy

The leaders debate on 13:01 - Apr 30 by Scotia

You didn't get more because I because I think the cost represents good value. It's about considerably more than paying for armed forces.

We clearly need some form of defence force, both land, air and sea. How much would setting that up from scratch cost alone?

The status quo is us having 10's of thousands of Welsh people who have chosen careers in the armed forces, I'd guess a lot more than we would need or could afford in any Welsh armed forces.

Not to mention the huge inward investment from the MoD spent in Wales. That would disappear too. In fact that totals approximately £1 billion in it's own right.

I don't believe for a second that Wales actually pays £1 billion pounds directly to the MoD. If we do, we get it back.


To put the cost into perspective Ireland spends around £500 million on their land, air and sea defence force. At a proportionate level of spend (just comparing populations) Wales would spend about £300 million.

We would not be setting it up from scratch. As I say, we've been contributing 5% to the cost of development of the UK armed forces for decades which means in simple terms we 'own' 5% of the land, sea and air hardware.

I honestly don't know how many Welsh people are employed in the armed forces.

It's not an investment that would disappear because Wales' investment in the armed forces would more than cover the value of whatever the MOD has returned to us.

In another thread when talking about health services someone mentioned about the RAF being used to transport Welsh patients to English Hospitals. And the poster asked where's the Welsh RAF. The RAF IS the Welsh RAF. It is also the English, Scottish and Northern Irish RAF because we've all contributed to it.

All the countries of the UK automatically have to contribute to the cost of the armed forces measured according to population. Wales has 5% of the UK's population. Full spend on the UK armed services is approaching £50 billion annually making Wales' contribution around £2.3 billion.
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The leaders debate on 15:01 - Apr 30 with 614 viewsScotia

The leaders debate on 14:44 - Apr 30 by johnlangy

To put the cost into perspective Ireland spends around £500 million on their land, air and sea defence force. At a proportionate level of spend (just comparing populations) Wales would spend about £300 million.

We would not be setting it up from scratch. As I say, we've been contributing 5% to the cost of development of the UK armed forces for decades which means in simple terms we 'own' 5% of the land, sea and air hardware.

I honestly don't know how many Welsh people are employed in the armed forces.

It's not an investment that would disappear because Wales' investment in the armed forces would more than cover the value of whatever the MOD has returned to us.

In another thread when talking about health services someone mentioned about the RAF being used to transport Welsh patients to English Hospitals. And the poster asked where's the Welsh RAF. The RAF IS the Welsh RAF. It is also the English, Scottish and Northern Irish RAF because we've all contributed to it.

All the countries of the UK automatically have to contribute to the cost of the armed forces measured according to population. Wales has 5% of the UK's population. Full spend on the UK armed services is approaching £50 billion annually making Wales' contribution around £2.3 billion.


We may contribute 5% of the value of the armed forces but do you honestly think we only get 5% of the benefit?

We get far more than that directly through investment and indirectly through their actions. Apparently the MoD spent £1 billion in Wales last year.

As I said earlier. The Welsh contribution to the MoD is an absolute bargain.
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The leaders debate on 15:03 - Apr 30 with 611 viewstrampie

The leaders debate on 09:37 - Apr 30 by Catullus

Purely because they are looking at local issues. They have no chance of gaining control of the Senedd. In the absense of a decent choice look local, do the best for your own area.

Trampie, you can continue to call me right wing all you like, must have missed my responses to Ajackerouac and Dr Parnassus. Like I've said, you call anyone to the right of you right wing and that covers a lot of territory.

PS, you must have been missing or ignoring my comments about RT Davies too. Maybe because you're blinkered, or have tunnel vision. You see what you want to see.


You are talking about voting for a right wing Welsh nationalist party Cat (not many of them to the pound as Wales historically tends to be on the left but that is a different story), you are talking about voting for Jaco's crowd, you major on criticising Plaid, the Green's and the left leaning Welsh Labour leader, so obviously I have you down as a right winger.

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The leaders debate on 15:41 - Apr 30 with 594 viewsKGriz16

I couldn't believe that's the best this country can produce with regards to politicians. There's not much charisma in any of them. I'm a Plaid voter, and I think Price tries to be more Welsh than he actually is.

I cannot believe they allowed abolish near the main parties, it was like he'd won a competition to be there. Lib Dem leader spoke some sense. RT Davies was robotic, and was just reading from a script. Does he actually believe or know what he's saying?

I think it'll come down to a Plaid and Labour coalition. (Nothing either leader swore they'd allow). How anyone in Wales can vote tory blows my mind?
[Post edited 30 Apr 2021 15:44]
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The leaders debate on 19:43 - Apr 30 with 534 viewsfelixstowe_jack

The leaders debate on 13:38 - Apr 30 by CountyJim

Not up to speed on this it's not a trick question but don't we in Wales get more money off Westminster than we give back


Yes £9 billion more.

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