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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:19 - Aug 2 by Ajack_Kerouac
The footballers and the clubs and the Premier League brought politics into it. They were the ones tweeting their support for BLM and posting videos of themselves kneeling in support of BLM. I on the other hand just want to go and watch my home town club...try and imagine for a minute if the team were kneeling in support of the EDL. Imagine how you would now feel about going to watch your team kneeling for the EDL. Imagine if when you pointed out the absurdity of Swansea City kneeling for the EDL you had to deal with your fellow fans telling you that you are not wanted if you are not pro kneeling for the EDL, 'this is not your club anymore'. Think.
I am the one who detests politics in sport as it inevitably divides the audience. Sport is something that was supposed to bring communities together.
...but nobody could talk any sense into you could they? It is impossible for you to admit you are wrong isn't it. You are a fool.
You bring your politics into sport and your comments about the EDL are again attempts to change the issue and pretty embarrassing in all honesty.
The issue is footballers being racially abused and them protesting against it. Your politics don’t allow you to look past BLM.
I think our relative positions are quite clear. I support our players in their stance against racism and am not concerned with how they do it. You seem more concerned about taking a knee and BLM.
I think that everyone apart from your wing man is fed up with this thread. We are clearly never going to agree and as you’ve lowered the discussion into name calling I think that it’s time to draw it to a close and leave posters to make their own minds up.
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 22:33 - Aug 2 with 1146 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:14 - Aug 2 by dobjack2
Any abuse is uncalled for but Black footballers get an extra level of abuse above and beyond simply missing a penalty because of the colour of their skin.
The morons that give racial abuse need to be tackled on whatever platform they choose to give it. I’m more interested in the message than the way that footballers show their opposition to racist abuse. As a middle aged white male I don’t think it’s either right or appropriate for me to tell footballers of any colour how they ought to oppose racism.
This white middle aged man stuff has come out of a complete lack of understanding of the situation and a complete (and often intentional) misrepresentation of the opposition. This is done to conflate the reason it is being opposed as opposed to understanding why.
If it is attributed to “white middle aged men” then it can easily be swept into a very convenient box. As soon as you recognise that people of all races, genders and sexualities oppose the knee then you have to face the uncomfortable task of finding out why.
So what about the droves of black people that oppose BLM and the knee? Is it “right and appropriate” for them to say? Because they are telling you, but nobody seems to be listening to them.
If you don’t want to listen to people who you deem undeserving of a view, then maybe listen to black Forest player Lyle Taylor who is explaining exactly why he opposes it? Is he racist?
[Post edited 2 Aug 2021 23:15]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 08:19 - Aug 2 by dobjack2
Are you so focussed on hating BLM that you are missing the point that the players are highlighting the issue of the racial abuse of colleagues?
The Football Association (FA) said in a statement that the “gesture of unity and fighting against inequality” is “not new” as it stretches as far back as the 18th century.
“There can be no doubt as to why the players are taking the knee and what it represents in a footballing context. We encourage those that oppose this action to reflect on the message you are sending to the players you are supporting.”
I support our players in whatever they do to highlight the racial abuse that is thrown at some of them. I don’t think that it’s down to me, a white middle aged male, to tell them how to do it. I accept what they do for the clear reasons why they do it.
As in the FA statement above what message do you think is sent to players by fans booing or staying away?
Have you forgotten that some of our players have been subjected to that abuse? Are you supportive of our players that have been racially abused? If so you have a strange way of showing it.
TTK Is a gesture that is used to show support of what is in my opinion an abhorrent political movement. There should be no official place for that gesture at any sporting occasion. I have spent my entire life playing and watching sport at all different levels, and racism disgusts me. TTK by being devisive, is already showing that it's counter productive, how can anyone with a brain not see that?
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 08:38 - Aug 3 with 1062 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 23:07 - Aug 2 by Jack59
TTK Is a gesture that is used to show support of what is in my opinion an abhorrent political movement. There should be no official place for that gesture at any sporting occasion. I have spent my entire life playing and watching sport at all different levels, and racism disgusts me. TTK by being devisive, is already showing that it's counter productive, how can anyone with a brain not see that?
So do you think that our players are wanting fans to go out and rip down the signs for Picton arcade or to March on Swansea Central with placards demanding that the police are defunded?
Or perhaps are they just making a point about the racial abuse of black players. I would have thought any reasonable thinking person could put aside their political views or their hatred of BLM and simply support our players in making a point however they wish to make it.
Supporting them in my view doesn’t mean jumping up and down and clapping them taking a knee, it means not booing them, recognising that Black players are racially abused on Social Media and supporting any campaigns to stamp it out. Are you able to put your hatred of BLM to one side and do that?
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 09:10 - Aug 3 with 1050 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 08:38 - Aug 3 by dobjack2
So do you think that our players are wanting fans to go out and rip down the signs for Picton arcade or to March on Swansea Central with placards demanding that the police are defunded?
Or perhaps are they just making a point about the racial abuse of black players. I would have thought any reasonable thinking person could put aside their political views or their hatred of BLM and simply support our players in making a point however they wish to make it.
Supporting them in my view doesn’t mean jumping up and down and clapping them taking a knee, it means not booing them, recognising that Black players are racially abused on Social Media and supporting any campaigns to stamp it out. Are you able to put your hatred of BLM to one side and do that?
It's run its course, all lives matter, we don't need footballers taking a knee to tell us that.
Just call a halt to it, because full stadiums will let them know what they think of it
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 18:29 - Aug 3 by Flashberryjack
So will players that voted against TTK be forced to comply.
Suspect it would have been collective discussion & agreement as opposed to individual voting, interesting to note Brentford have agreed to it despite stopping TKK towards the end of last season as they felt it had ‘lost it’s intended impact’.
If BLM didn’t force people to take the knee, I think less people would care. The knee is the issue, not the message (as we found out at millwall last year).
It’s actually made things worse in my opinion, racists haven’t decided they won’t be racist anymore and non racists are now getting cheesed off with it, as are black players.
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:13 - Aug 7 by raynor94
Luton have come out and said they won't do it, first of many I suspect.
It’s up to the players at each club to make their decision about what they want to do and I will support our players in whatever they decide to do. Whilst racist abuse is dealt with in grounds racism and racist abuse is still alive in British society and football.
The key to me is linking action taken by players to their abuse on social media and the police getting convictions. Getting social media companies to change their algorithms to pick up racist abuse and potentially racist emoji’s is a tough thing to achieve but needs to be tried. Also needs the police to investigate incidents as per the post England game and the cps to proceed with cases on the basis of public interest. Up until the post England game abuse there has seemed to be little appetite to do this.
If the companies block more abuse and deactivate accounts and some morons go down for sending malicious communications or breaching section 127 of the Communications Act then the morons will think twice before racially abusing people as they will understand the potential consequences of their actions. At present they see no consequences for their actions.
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:45 - Aug 7 with 697 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:51 - Aug 7 by dobjack2
It’s up to the players at each club to make their decision about what they want to do and I will support our players in whatever they decide to do. Whilst racist abuse is dealt with in grounds racism and racist abuse is still alive in British society and football.
The key to me is linking action taken by players to their abuse on social media and the police getting convictions. Getting social media companies to change their algorithms to pick up racist abuse and potentially racist emoji’s is a tough thing to achieve but needs to be tried. Also needs the police to investigate incidents as per the post England game and the cps to proceed with cases on the basis of public interest. Up until the post England game abuse there has seemed to be little appetite to do this.
If the companies block more abuse and deactivate accounts and some morons go down for sending malicious communications or breaching section 127 of the Communications Act then the morons will think twice before racially abusing people as they will understand the potential consequences of their actions. At present they see no consequences for their actions.
Abuse of all sorts goes on in the social media circus. People are equating social media excesses as being indicative of deep social problems. This is not necessarily true. Racisim exists in the UK there is not doubt about it.
I do not believe TTK should be left to the players alone. They should first check with the club and all the names and sponsors on the shirt and they should not add any gestures like a clenched fist which has multiple meanings some very political.
While wearing the shirt they are not only representing themselves but the city, university and all the sponsors on the shirt. They can attend any rallies outside work time for causes outside those specified.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 14:12 - Aug 7 with 657 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:19 - Aug 7 by ReslovenSwan1
Abuse of all sorts goes on in the social media circus. People are equating social media excesses as being indicative of deep social problems. This is not necessarily true. Racisim exists in the UK there is not doubt about it.
I do not believe TTK should be left to the players alone. They should first check with the club and all the names and sponsors on the shirt and they should not add any gestures like a clenched fist which has multiple meanings some very political.
While wearing the shirt they are not only representing themselves but the city, university and all the sponsors on the shirt. They can attend any rallies outside work time for causes outside those specified.
I think clubs are leaving it up to their players. If sponsors were uncomfortable with what the players were doing I’m sure they would feed that back to clubs.
Taking aside the arguments regarding TTK itself, one of the biggest criticisms is what is its ultimate purpose, what is it achieving and where is it going.
Without the players making their point would the police have devoted time and energy in pursuing the racial abusers of the 3 that missed the penalties? Would the social media giants have been helpful to the police? We will never know the answers but I suspect that the players raising the profile of racial abuse put pressure on all parties to be seen to be taking it seriously.
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:59 - Aug 7 with 631 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:45 - Aug 7 by Dr_Parnassus
Who are representing one of the most multi cultural towns in Britain too.
Clearly the correct decision and I’m sure is echoed by large parts of that community. Good on them.
Not their supporters though. Very far from being multicultural. As you say, Tommy and his boys who form quite the church of their support will doubtless be thrilled though.
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 16:32 - Aug 7 with 588 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 16:09 - Aug 7 by londonlisa2001
Not their supporters though. Very far from being multicultural. As you say, Tommy and his boys who form quite the church of their support will doubtless be thrilled though.
Don’t think it makes difference to Tommy or his boys or anyone else deemed to be that way inclined.
Nothing is being solved or tackled by taking the knee, I’m pretty sure the racists of this world aren’t up at night worrying that someone is going down one one knee for 5 seconds before a football match. It literally does nothing.
What it does do is push a leftist movement into the limelight which people understandable don’t like, people of all races, genders, sexualities and ages.
Whether that is the intention or not is irrelevant, it’s what it’s doing. People will continue to boo it for that reason.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 14:12 - Aug 7 by dobjack2
I think clubs are leaving it up to their players. If sponsors were uncomfortable with what the players were doing I’m sure they would feed that back to clubs.
Taking aside the arguments regarding TTK itself, one of the biggest criticisms is what is its ultimate purpose, what is it achieving and where is it going.
Without the players making their point would the police have devoted time and energy in pursuing the racial abusers of the 3 that missed the penalties? Would the social media giants have been helpful to the police? We will never know the answers but I suspect that the players raising the profile of racial abuse put pressure on all parties to be seen to be taking it seriously.
Agree, the players are happy to TKK & the clubs are fine with them doing it.
If fans want to boo that’s up to them as long as they understand that whilst they believe they are booing the gesture of TKK the players may well see it as booing them as they are wanting to do it - tad like booing one of your players after he has scored because you don’t like his goal celebration.
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Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 16:47 - Aug 7 with 571 views
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 16:38 - Aug 7 by Thornburyswan
Agree, the players are happy to TKK & the clubs are fine with them doing it.
If fans want to boo that’s up to them as long as they understand that whilst they believe they are booing the gesture of TKK the players may well see it as booing them as they are wanting to do it - tad like booing one of your players after he has scored because you don’t like his goal celebration.
Stronger than a goal celebration really, it’s viewed as an extremist political gesture.
If you are to liken it to booing a celebration it would be closer to the Di Canio fascist salute, and I would certainly understand the boos for that too.
I’m pretty sure the players aren’t stupid to the fact that people are booing because they see it as political. They were all around for Kick it Out and nobody booed that or opposed it in any way what so ever.
This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with politics and culture, a culture people are becoming sick of.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 16:47 - Aug 7 by Dr_Parnassus
Stronger than a goal celebration really, it’s viewed as an extremist political gesture.
If you are to liken it to booing a celebration it would be closer to the Di Canio fascist salute, and I would certainly understand the boos for that too.
I’m pretty sure the players aren’t stupid to the fact that people are booing because they see it as political. They were all around for Kick it Out and nobody booed that or opposed it in any way what so ever.
This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with politics and culture, a culture people are becoming sick of.
Sorry Dr, it’s just taking the knee happens in all sorts of situations e.g. proposals, doing up your shoes, praying to name but 3 it is nothing like a fascist or nazi salute or the raised black power fist.
I didn’t suggest the players were stupid just that they are choosing to TKK - just to crystal clear they are making a collective decision to do it, bit like a pre-match huddle - so they would be well within their rights to be disappointed if their own fans booed it. I’m fine with the fans choosing to do that but please don’t pretend that the players are fine with it.
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