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Simple to answer that, the decent people rarely get to the top. To climb that pole you need to be a devious, cheating, lying, brown nosing, chuntbucket!
Show any signs of being honest and decent and your career progress is halted. No PM or minister wants some rising star that can't be bought or manipulated.
Watching the news this morning, you have to wonder about the way things have gone. In some areas there are thousands of people out protesting, they're ripping down Taliban flags, screming their protests into the cameras.
If those people are brave enough to be out doing that, what happened to the Afghan army? WHo was in it, where did they go? They were obviously the wrong people because they slipped away quietly, probably destroyed their uniforms and hid their guns. The government too, they ran, some making sure to take their probably ill gotten gains with them.
The UK has put out 20,000 visas for qualifying Afghans and is urging other countries to do the same. That made me wonder, what will the long term cost be of bringing the refugees West? For that money could we have stayed in Afghanistan and carried on giving freedom to tens of millions instead of tens of thousands?
Watching the news this morning, you have to wonder about the way things have gone. In some areas there are thousands of people out protesting, they're ripping down Taliban flags, screming their protests into the cameras.
If those people are brave enough to be out doing that, what happened to the Afghan army? WHo was in it, where did they go? They were obviously the wrong people because they slipped away quietly, probably destroyed their uniforms and hid their guns. The government too, they ran, some making sure to take their probably ill gotten gains with them.
The UK has put out 20,000 visas for qualifying Afghans and is urging other countries to do the same. That made me wonder, what will the long term cost be of bringing the refugees West? For that money could we have stayed in Afghanistan and carried on giving freedom to tens of millions instead of tens of thousands?
The troops on the ground and minor officials weren't important enough to be bribed , the ones at the top will survive just changing sides without batting an eyelid. They have the experience and knowledge to run a country the Taliban lost that 20 years ago so I expect a few familiar faces will show up
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
Watching the news this morning, you have to wonder about the way things have gone. In some areas there are thousands of people out protesting, they're ripping down Taliban flags, screming their protests into the cameras.
If those people are brave enough to be out doing that, what happened to the Afghan army? WHo was in it, where did they go? They were obviously the wrong people because they slipped away quietly, probably destroyed their uniforms and hid their guns. The government too, they ran, some making sure to take their probably ill gotten gains with them.
The UK has put out 20,000 visas for qualifying Afghans and is urging other countries to do the same. That made me wonder, what will the long term cost be of bringing the refugees West? For that money could we have stayed in Afghanistan and carried on giving freedom to tens of millions instead of tens of thousands?
The US pulled the rug from under the Afghan army. Simple as that. Abandoned them almost overnight through a mixture of incompetence, bad intelligence, appalling lack of leadership, pandering to the American First agenda while having given support to the Taliban through deal making and releasing their leadership.
Meanwhile, the U.K. suddenly realise that having spent the past 5 years doing all we can to destroy the ties we have with our European allies, we are, in the face of disagreement with the US, now utterly powerless on a world stage and can’t do anything other than scarper with our tail between our legs, like the utterly insignificant US lapdog we have been determined to become.
Leaving those who fought alongside us to establish the beginnings of freedoms for millions of Afghans, particularly women, to hide until we can either remove a fraction of them, or they get rounded up, tortured and executed by the Taliban leadership that the US worked so hard to free, then signed a bloody deal with. And Biden, who is running sh*t scared of the small minded horror of the America first bandwagon that Trump fought so hard to encourage is impotent and incompetent in almost equal measure.
And our own Home Secretary, enjoying the benefits of asylum granted to her own parents, fleeing an oppressive regime in Uganda, as two of the 28,000 people we took in then with little question, in one go, now decides that we don’t have room, and can only manage 5000 at once, leaving the other 15000 she claims we will eventually take, presumably passing the time waiting for us to act like civilised human beings by playing Scrabble and sipping a cold beer. And the whole time, those that have forgotten their humanity and view these Afghans as somehow ‘less than us’ cheer on a foreign Secretary that sat on a beach lounger rather than pick up the phone to at least attempt to help the women that are currently trying to hand their own children to soldiers, preferring to never see them again, than to have them live under the regime that Trump made a f*cking deal with.
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter. We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus. These are people, same as you. They love their families just as much. They have the same hopes and dreams. They have just been dealt a sh*tty card. We have enjoyed the fruits of being in the West. We have plundered their resources, used them when it suited and now we abandon them when it doesn’t. We may be rich beyond their wildest dreams, but we are not fit to lace some of their boots.
I couldn't comment on the percentage because and I suspect many other don't know the number per head , but what I do know is one is too many .
One crime committed by anyone is one too many. But it was a specific claim that ‘lots’ of asylum seekers commit atrocities. I’d like to know the support for that.
The US pulled the rug from under the Afghan army. Simple as that. Abandoned them almost overnight through a mixture of incompetence, bad intelligence, appalling lack of leadership, pandering to the American First agenda while having given support to the Taliban through deal making and releasing their leadership.
Meanwhile, the U.K. suddenly realise that having spent the past 5 years doing all we can to destroy the ties we have with our European allies, we are, in the face of disagreement with the US, now utterly powerless on a world stage and can’t do anything other than scarper with our tail between our legs, like the utterly insignificant US lapdog we have been determined to become.
Leaving those who fought alongside us to establish the beginnings of freedoms for millions of Afghans, particularly women, to hide until we can either remove a fraction of them, or they get rounded up, tortured and executed by the Taliban leadership that the US worked so hard to free, then signed a bloody deal with. And Biden, who is running sh*t scared of the small minded horror of the America first bandwagon that Trump fought so hard to encourage is impotent and incompetent in almost equal measure.
And our own Home Secretary, enjoying the benefits of asylum granted to her own parents, fleeing an oppressive regime in Uganda, as two of the 28,000 people we took in then with little question, in one go, now decides that we don’t have room, and can only manage 5000 at once, leaving the other 15000 she claims we will eventually take, presumably passing the time waiting for us to act like civilised human beings by playing Scrabble and sipping a cold beer. And the whole time, those that have forgotten their humanity and view these Afghans as somehow ‘less than us’ cheer on a foreign Secretary that sat on a beach lounger rather than pick up the phone to at least attempt to help the women that are currently trying to hand their own children to soldiers, preferring to never see them again, than to have them live under the regime that Trump made a f*cking deal with.
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter. We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus. These are people, same as you. They love their families just as much. They have the same hopes and dreams. They have just been dealt a sh*tty card. We have enjoyed the fruits of being in the West. We have plundered their resources, used them when it suited and now we abandon them when it doesn’t. We may be rich beyond their wildest dreams, but we are not fit to lace some of their boots.
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter , of course it matters or is this now a race to the bottom ?, . "We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus " I'm have to assume by that asinine comment its not had an impact on you or the rest of the world then and its all been a dream , a Bobby Ewin moment perhaps ? " We have plundered their resources " not sure about that considering many have made a fortune selling the products of the poppy fields to the west . Strange that China, Russia and Pakistan are lining up to do business with the militant group, surely there can't be anything else to plunder Are you so vociferous when it comes to the rights of women in many other Muslim dominated countries or just selective because the people of this country took a democratic decision which you disagreed with but were quite happy to remain as a puppet to the European state. Obama initiated the start of the withdrawal but no mention of him or the fact that Trump had put a date of withdrawal but with a caveat only if the conditions were favourable Biden went in two footed clueless and now innocents will die of his ineptitude .
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter , of course it matters or is this now a race to the bottom ?, . "We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus " I'm have to assume by that asinine comment its not had an impact on you or the rest of the world then and its all been a dream , a Bobby Ewin moment perhaps ? " We have plundered their resources " not sure about that considering many have made a fortune selling the products of the poppy fields to the west . Strange that China, Russia and Pakistan are lining up to do business with the militant group, surely there can't be anything else to plunder Are you so vociferous when it comes to the rights of women in many other Muslim dominated countries or just selective because the people of this country took a democratic decision which you disagreed with but were quite happy to remain as a puppet to the European state. Obama initiated the start of the withdrawal but no mention of him or the fact that Trump had put a date of withdrawal but with a caveat only if the conditions were favourable Biden went in two footed clueless and now innocents will die of his ineptitude .
The point about the virus you misunderstand. I’m not downplaying it in the slightest. It’s horrific and what happened with lockdown and financial support was necessary and still is. The point is, it is literally one small virus. And it’s shutdown most of the world. Surely that makes you realise how bloody unimportant money is? If that doesn’t make you realise- what will? It’s all smoke and mirrors anyway. We finance a lot of this through QE. Sterling wobbles a little and recovers. We can find untold billions when necessary. The relatively insignificant cost of maintaining some order in Afghanistan is a red herring:
I have no idea whether you are being serious about resources. I assume you realise the significance of Afghanistan to the emerging world economic drivers? And that’s ignoring its geographical importance.
I’ve criticised Obama’s role in this before. And Bush. And Biden. And Trump. Don’t go there with the whole ‘Trump put conditions in place’ nonsense. Trump deliberately left a poison pill for. Biden with his undermining of the Afghan army and deals with the Taliban. Biden’s decisions have been weak and pathetic - he’s running scared of the republicans and the vociferous America First mob who don’t give a sh*t about anything other than their own self interest: Getting troops out by May was the deal. Biden is too weak to extend it properly..
Obviously when they realise they’ve just shot themselves in the foot when it comes to next generation motor industry and technology they’ll all blame Biden again and conveniently ignore Trump’s boasting about his deal being irreversible: America’s behaviour is shameful - from both parties. And ours isn’t much better: which is unsurprising when you realise our PM is an incompetent, lazy charlatan: - as is the idiot Corbyn btw who is protesting today with the usual school kid level of understanding of geopolitics.
The yanks have thrown Afghanistan under the bus. Never trust Americans
I don't think so.After spending billions on creating a fighting force of Afghans to protect their country,what do they do ,run to the hills ,the gutless bastards
Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
The US pulled the rug from under the Afghan army. Simple as that. Abandoned them almost overnight through a mixture of incompetence, bad intelligence, appalling lack of leadership, pandering to the American First agenda while having given support to the Taliban through deal making and releasing their leadership.
Meanwhile, the U.K. suddenly realise that having spent the past 5 years doing all we can to destroy the ties we have with our European allies, we are, in the face of disagreement with the US, now utterly powerless on a world stage and can’t do anything other than scarper with our tail between our legs, like the utterly insignificant US lapdog we have been determined to become.
Leaving those who fought alongside us to establish the beginnings of freedoms for millions of Afghans, particularly women, to hide until we can either remove a fraction of them, or they get rounded up, tortured and executed by the Taliban leadership that the US worked so hard to free, then signed a bloody deal with. And Biden, who is running sh*t scared of the small minded horror of the America first bandwagon that Trump fought so hard to encourage is impotent and incompetent in almost equal measure.
And our own Home Secretary, enjoying the benefits of asylum granted to her own parents, fleeing an oppressive regime in Uganda, as two of the 28,000 people we took in then with little question, in one go, now decides that we don’t have room, and can only manage 5000 at once, leaving the other 15000 she claims we will eventually take, presumably passing the time waiting for us to act like civilised human beings by playing Scrabble and sipping a cold beer. And the whole time, those that have forgotten their humanity and view these Afghans as somehow ‘less than us’ cheer on a foreign Secretary that sat on a beach lounger rather than pick up the phone to at least attempt to help the women that are currently trying to hand their own children to soldiers, preferring to never see them again, than to have them live under the regime that Trump made a f*cking deal with.
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter. We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus. These are people, same as you. They love their families just as much. They have the same hopes and dreams. They have just been dealt a sh*tty card. We have enjoyed the fruits of being in the West. We have plundered their resources, used them when it suited and now we abandon them when it doesn’t. We may be rich beyond their wildest dreams, but we are not fit to lace some of their boots.
Patel’s views are unbelievable given her background
I don't think so.After spending billions on creating a fighting force of Afghans to protect their country,what do they do ,run to the hills ,the gutless bastards
How long do people think US & UK forces should stay in Afghanistan, they've already been there 20 years ?
Biden is quite wrong on this. As Theresa said, where is Johnsons global Britain on the streets of Kabul ?
At 2,500 troops ….. then the UK could have helped replace the Americans with European troops and other willing countries. And stayed and stood by the Afghan people.
Planned a proper controlled later departure.
It looks like Trumps deal with the Taliban broke the spirit of the Afghan army. Otherwise why did we not know that the Afghan army would evaporate ? Seems incredible that the West was not aware that this would happen.
Its a disaster, with UK looking anything like a world power.
Biden is quite wrong on this. As Theresa said, where is Johnsons global Britain on the streets of Kabul ?
At 2,500 troops ….. then the UK could have helped replace the Americans with European troops and other willing countries. And stayed and stood by the Afghan people.
Planned a proper controlled later departure.
It looks like Trumps deal with the Taliban broke the spirit of the Afghan army. Otherwise why did we not know that the Afghan army would evaporate ? Seems incredible that the West was not aware that this would happen.
Its a disaster, with UK looking anything like a world power.
"Its a disaster, with UK looking anything like a world power"
We're not a world power, and haven't been for some time.
The UK & US have spilt enough of their soldiers, and Afghani blood, if the Afghanis can't defend themselves after 20 years, they never will.
How long do people think US & UK forces should stay in Afghanistan, they've already been there 20 years ?
yea 20 years creating a fighting force to protect their own country, which they pathetically failed to do. We can't stay there forever this was a correct decision to pull out . Trouble is the Taliban we already in the cities disguised as cillivallns,one phone call and they got a van full of armory on its way to them . Those Taliban are right sneaky bastards .The yanks and brits fuked up big time by not spotting what the devious bastards were up to all the time
Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
The US pulled the rug from under the Afghan army. Simple as that. Abandoned them almost overnight through a mixture of incompetence, bad intelligence, appalling lack of leadership, pandering to the American First agenda while having given support to the Taliban through deal making and releasing their leadership.
Meanwhile, the U.K. suddenly realise that having spent the past 5 years doing all we can to destroy the ties we have with our European allies, we are, in the face of disagreement with the US, now utterly powerless on a world stage and can’t do anything other than scarper with our tail between our legs, like the utterly insignificant US lapdog we have been determined to become.
Leaving those who fought alongside us to establish the beginnings of freedoms for millions of Afghans, particularly women, to hide until we can either remove a fraction of them, or they get rounded up, tortured and executed by the Taliban leadership that the US worked so hard to free, then signed a bloody deal with. And Biden, who is running sh*t scared of the small minded horror of the America first bandwagon that Trump fought so hard to encourage is impotent and incompetent in almost equal measure.
And our own Home Secretary, enjoying the benefits of asylum granted to her own parents, fleeing an oppressive regime in Uganda, as two of the 28,000 people we took in then with little question, in one go, now decides that we don’t have room, and can only manage 5000 at once, leaving the other 15000 she claims we will eventually take, presumably passing the time waiting for us to act like civilised human beings by playing Scrabble and sipping a cold beer. And the whole time, those that have forgotten their humanity and view these Afghans as somehow ‘less than us’ cheer on a foreign Secretary that sat on a beach lounger rather than pick up the phone to at least attempt to help the women that are currently trying to hand their own children to soldiers, preferring to never see them again, than to have them live under the regime that Trump made a f*cking deal with.
Why mention cost. It doesn’t matter. We have just spent hundreds of times more money because of one small virus. These are people, same as you. They love their families just as much. They have the same hopes and dreams. They have just been dealt a sh*tty card. We have enjoyed the fruits of being in the West. We have plundered their resources, used them when it suited and now we abandon them when it doesn’t. We may be rich beyond their wildest dreams, but we are not fit to lace some of their boots.
I know we abandoned them and yes, it was wrong but the Afghan army vanished practically overnight. There are civilians, women on the street showing more fight than the soldiers.
Did you not understand my point about the cost? I was saying that the costs to us of leaving may be as much as the cost of staying. In fact it could cost a lot more. Keeping the troops there, keeping the Taliban out could have been the cheaper option not just the most humanitarian one.
What we have done is disgraceful. You bring Brexit into it too. If these UK and European politicians cannot put the poilitics aside and do what is humanly possible and right here, there is no hope for any of us. Things like this should come well before petty political posturing, game playing. We haven't destroyed the ties with our Euro allies either, we have seperated from a political institution. They all need to be grown up and move past that. It's like a playground spat where the bullies are trying to outdo each other. We voted leave, it was a democratic decision and if the EU cannot accept that it is just more proof that it was the right move. Shame we got Bojo because of it though. Even so, Afhanistan is nothing to do with Brexit. The people there don't deserve this. If anyone doesn't get upset watching the news, watching parents handing their kids over to soldiers, begging those soldiers to take their kids thousands of miles away to safety knowing they'd probably never see them again, if anyone can watch that and not be upset then they are heartless bastards. Biden has gotten it wrong, Bojo is being Bojo, I don't expect any better, nor from Raab. It's a mess.
I know we abandoned them and yes, it was wrong but the Afghan army vanished practically overnight. There are civilians, women on the street showing more fight than the soldiers.
Did you not understand my point about the cost? I was saying that the costs to us of leaving may be as much as the cost of staying. In fact it could cost a lot more. Keeping the troops there, keeping the Taliban out could have been the cheaper option not just the most humanitarian one.
What we have done is disgraceful. You bring Brexit into it too. If these UK and European politicians cannot put the poilitics aside and do what is humanly possible and right here, there is no hope for any of us. Things like this should come well before petty political posturing, game playing. We haven't destroyed the ties with our Euro allies either, we have seperated from a political institution. They all need to be grown up and move past that. It's like a playground spat where the bullies are trying to outdo each other. We voted leave, it was a democratic decision and if the EU cannot accept that it is just more proof that it was the right move. Shame we got Bojo because of it though. Even so, Afhanistan is nothing to do with Brexit. The people there don't deserve this. If anyone doesn't get upset watching the news, watching parents handing their kids over to soldiers, begging those soldiers to take their kids thousands of miles away to safety knowing they'd probably never see them again, if anyone can watch that and not be upset then they are heartless bastards. Biden has gotten it wrong, Bojo is being Bojo, I don't expect any better, nor from Raab. It's a mess.
If Putin funded Leave and influenced the 2016 referendum, then the vote is unsafe. Nobody gains as much as Putin.
I don't think so.After spending billions on creating a fighting force of Afghans to protect their country,what do they do ,run to the hills ,the gutless bastards
The Taliban are in the hills, they are valley commandoes I would have thought the people you speak of are more likely to try and hide in the towns and cities.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
So it now looks like Raab’s delegated call to the Afghan foreign minister never actually took place. It seems like the more this rumbles on the more incompetence is being exposed, to me it appears the government are trying to be coy about Raab’s actions (or inactions) but more damning information is seeping out. It’s shameful. On top of Raab we now have an empty plane fiasco.
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