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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc 08:51 - Dec 3 with 1406 viewsKeithHaynes

Scientists have their say on why fans and players are collapsing at matches recently with it happened twice on Wednesday night.

There are claims linking the Covid vaccine with an increase in the number of supporters and footballers developing heart problems. We have seen on-field emergencies involving Wigan’s Charlie Wyke, Sheffield United’s John Fleck and fans over the last few weeks. John Fleck’s fell to ground in an off-the-ball incident when playing for Sheffield United at Reading last week, with scientists saying that it wasn’t connected to the Covid vaccine, denouncing the anti-vaxers for suggesting a link.

The Blades player was rushed to hospital after requiring medical treatment and being carried off on a stretcher during a Championship game against Reading. The Scot’s collapse was then caught as part of conspiracy theories on social media about players responding badly to Covid vaccines. However those suggestions have been branded ‘irresponsible’ by experts who insist it is impossible to make any connection without any evidence. After Sheffield United were hounded with tweets regarding the theories, the club were quick to point out that Fleck had a separate medical issue which led to his seizure. A source close to the player said: ‘John Fleck’s issue was not vaccination related.’

Speaking after Fleck’s collapse, radio pundit and ex-England winger Trevor Sinclair hinted there could be a link to the Covid jab, while Matt Le Tissier, a firm advocate of patient choice over the vaccine, also demanded in a social media post that Fifpro, football’s world governing body, should be looking into it.

Many scientists have angrily rejected the high-profile opposition to the vaccines especially as the country gets set for a possible wave of more cases and deaths from Covid after the discovery of the Omicron variant — although, it’s claimed in Israel that three doses of the vaccine should be enough to prevent you from getting the virus.

‘It is totally irresponsible to make these unsubstantiated comments,’ said Professor Keith Neal from Nottingham University. Professor Guido Pieles, a sports cardiologist at the Institute of Sport, Exercise and Health, added: ‘At present I would say this is still a coincidence. I don’t think we can say this is suddenly increasing.’ 80 year old Newcastle supporter Alan George Smith collapsed in the stands and required CPR at St James’ Park in the Magpies 3-1 defeat to Tottenham back in October.

Wigan’s Charlie Wyke collapsed in training last week, but the Latics were quick to refute suggestions that it had anything to do with Covid.

In a statement the club said: ‘We can confirm that Charlie has not received a Covid-19 vaccination and Charlie’s collapse weas not related to any Covid-19 vaccination.’

On Wednesday night, a fan at both Watford’s game with Chelsea and Southampton’s game against Leicester were taken ill.

Christian Eriksen, who we all remember collapsed playing for Denmark against Finland in the Euros, had not been vaccinated before the incident and it was revealed that Sergio Aguero, who was hospitalised after a collapse playing for Barcelona earlier this month, had an underlying heart condition, he has since had to retire.

Meanwhile, FIFA say it is not aware of a rise in cardiac arrests in football players and has received no reports of any cases being linked to Covid vaccinations.

A spokesperson told Reuters: “FIFA is not aware of a rise in episodes of cardiac arrests as indicated in your email and no cases have been flagged in relation to individuals receiving a COVID vaccine.

“Generally speaking, FIFA is in regular contact with leading research centres and experts to do research on a variety of medical topics.”

‘It may be tempting to blame Covid vaccines but pundits do have a public responsibility not to fuel vaccine hesitancy without any real evidence,’ added Professor Robert Dingwall.

Studies into heart inflammation after Covid vaccinations support that view and in two studies of more than 7 million people who had received the Pfizer vaccine, it identified the risk of developing the heart condition known as myocardities is about one in 50,000.

In contrast, from the earliest days of the pandemic it was clear that Covid itself was a cause of an abormal number of heart issues.

There is a link between the Covid-19 vaccine and heart conditions — but it is minuscule, officials say Scientists believe there is a link between two minor heart conditions and the Covid-19 vaccine — but they say the risk is minuscule.

From analysis of UK and international data, there has been a signal of an increase of cases of myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination with both Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.

Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is inflammation of the lining around your heart.

Symptoms include the onset of chest pain, shortness of breath or feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering, or pounding heart.

The Government urge anyone who develops these symptoms within 2 weeks of a COVID-19 vaccination should urgently seek medical assistance.

Most individuals respond well to standard treatment and recover quickly.

The link between the Covid jabs and these two conditions, according to data, is strongest in younger men, and the median onset is within three days of vaccination.

But the risk is incredibly small, according to the data.

In the US 296 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine had been given by 11 June with 1,226 reports of myocarditis after vaccination.

And in the UK, up to July 2021, there were 149 reports of myocarditis and 129 reports of pericarditis following use of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, 82 reports of myocarditis and 140 reports of pericarditis following use of the AstraZeneca vaccine, and 25 reports of myocarditis and 22 reports of pericarditis following use of the Moderna vaccine.

This means the overall rates after both the first and second doses of Pfizer/BioNTech are 4.3 myocarditis cases per million doses and 3.8 pericarditis cases per million doses, for the rate is 1.7 myocarditis cases per million doses and 3.0 pericarditis cases per million doses, and for Moderna the rate is 14.7 myocarditis cases per million doses and 13.0 pericarditis cases per million doses.

There is a considerably stronger link between Covid patients and heart problems however.

According to figures, approximately 18 per cent of hospitalised patients suffering myocardial injury.

Meanwhile, in a US study of 1,597 athletes with recent SARS-CoV-2 infection, 0.31 per cent were diagnosed with myocarditis using a symptom-based screening strategy and 2.3 per cent were diagnosed with clinical or subclinical myocarditis.

Source: Public Health England

This post has been edited by an administrator

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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 12:23 - Dec 3 with 1290 viewsReslovenSwan1

Perhaps players have been collapsing from the effects of viruses the vaccines would have stopped?

As far I am am concerned you either trust modern medicine or you do not. Average life expectancy a has increased for decades (overall) until fairly recently despite the fact people are living unhealthy live styles with drinks various drug and medicine addictions and junk food.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-t
[Post edited 3 Dec 2021 13:31]

Wise sage since Toshack era

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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 15:57 - Dec 3 with 1204 viewsFlynnidine_Zidownes

We must also consider the strain put on professional footballers has increased exponentially over the last few decades. Whether it’s the level of fitness/conditioning required to the intensity of the training sessions to the number of games played, or the thousands of tweets aired at them telling them they are shite every day. I think the pressure is massive now even at the lower levels.

The one positive is that ten or twenty years ago these events would result in death most of the time. But now with more readily available defibs, better rapid response and better monitoring most of these cardiac events have a more positive outcome.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:00 - Dec 3 with 1196 viewsA_Fans_Dad

I am not sure where this data came from "In the US 296 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine had been given by 11 June with 1,226 reports of myocarditis after vaccination. "
But it is 5 months out of date.
This is what the current data looks like

https://openvaers.com/covid-data

14,428 cases of myocarditis or Pericarditis, a bit of an increase in those 5 months.
Or you could include the European data which is as they do here

http://vigiaccess.org/

Which shows a total of 23,500 cases, plus lots of other Heart concerns
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:04 - Dec 3 with 1191 viewsFlynnidine_Zidownes

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:00 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad

I am not sure where this data came from "In the US 296 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine had been given by 11 June with 1,226 reports of myocarditis after vaccination. "
But it is 5 months out of date.
This is what the current data looks like

https://openvaers.com/covid-data

14,428 cases of myocarditis or Pericarditis, a bit of an increase in those 5 months.
Or you could include the European data which is as they do here

http://vigiaccess.org/

Which shows a total of 23,500 cases, plus lots of other Heart concerns


Did you read the disclaimer on that vaers site?

“The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases.”
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:06 - Dec 3 with 1191 viewsKeithHaynes

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:00 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad

I am not sure where this data came from "In the US 296 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine had been given by 11 June with 1,226 reports of myocarditis after vaccination. "
But it is 5 months out of date.
This is what the current data looks like

https://openvaers.com/covid-data

14,428 cases of myocarditis or Pericarditis, a bit of an increase in those 5 months.
Or you could include the European data which is as they do here

http://vigiaccess.org/

Which shows a total of 23,500 cases, plus lots of other Heart concerns


Public health England.

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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:23 - Dec 3 with 1138 viewsCatullus

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:04 - Dec 3 by Flynnidine_Zidownes

Did you read the disclaimer on that vaers site?

“The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases.”


He's been told about the possible problem with VAERS data before. He teds not to agree.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:31 - Dec 3 with 1130 viewsTreforys_Jack

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 12:23 - Dec 3 by ReslovenSwan1

Perhaps players have been collapsing from the effects of viruses the vaccines would have stopped?

As far I am am concerned you either trust modern medicine or you do not. Average life expectancy a has increased for decades (overall) until fairly recently despite the fact people are living unhealthy live styles with drinks various drug and medicine addictions and junk food.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-t
[Post edited 3 Dec 2021 13:31]


Second paragraph with bells on? Posters should keep the conspiracy theories to themselves, get vaxxed or don't get vaxxed but live with the repercussions of either decision.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:32 - Dec 3 with 1130 viewsCatullus

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:00 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad

I am not sure where this data came from "In the US 296 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine had been given by 11 June with 1,226 reports of myocarditis after vaccination. "
But it is 5 months out of date.
This is what the current data looks like

https://openvaers.com/covid-data

14,428 cases of myocarditis or Pericarditis, a bit of an increase in those 5 months.
Or you could include the European data which is as they do here

http://vigiaccess.org/

Which shows a total of 23,500 cases, plus lots of other Heart concerns


Lets take those American numbers, 296000000 doses and 14428 of myocarditis and/or pericarditis.

That's less than 1 case for every 20,000 doses. If, as the post says, there are cases in 18% of covid infections then in those 20000 alone there will be 3600 cases of myo or pericarditis.

This was 3 months ago,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-myocarditis-and-

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:35 - Dec 3 with 1126 viewsBillyChong

I haven’t seen any of the conspiracy theorists back the claims about the sportsmen up with factual information that they have been vaccinated.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:56 - Dec 3 with 1113 viewsCatullus

Anti vaxers claimed Siobhan Cattigan had died after being vaccinated,

https://www.ibtimes.sg/did-scottish-rugby-player-siobhan-cattigan-die-due-covid-

But it's complete nonsense,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/12/01/anti-vaxxers-attempt-hijack-d

There is nowhere the anti vax, conspiracy freaks won't go to try and back up their BS claims.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 18:09 - Dec 3 with 1106 viewsshingle

Ffs, fans, players, fit youngsters etc have been dropping dead or having heart attacks for as long as i can remember.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 20:08 - Dec 3 with 1044 viewsA_Fans_Dad

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 16:04 - Dec 3 by Flynnidine_Zidownes

Did you read the disclaimer on that vaers site?

“The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases.”


As I said on the other forum, it is all we have.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 20:11 - Dec 3 with 1039 viewsA_Fans_Dad

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:23 - Dec 3 by Catullus

He's been told about the possible problem with VAERS data before. He teds not to agree.


There is no other data, If you belive it is all a coincidence that is OK by me.
But when authorities try to make a case by posting 5 month out of date data that shows about 1/10 of the current cases you aren't even the least bit concerned.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 20:29 - Dec 3 with 1025 viewsA_Fans_Dad

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 17:32 - Dec 3 by Catullus

Lets take those American numbers, 296000000 doses and 14428 of myocarditis and/or pericarditis.

That's less than 1 case for every 20,000 doses. If, as the post says, there are cases in 18% of covid infections then in those 20000 alone there will be 3600 cases of myo or pericarditis.

This was 3 months ago,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-myocarditis-and-


296000000 doses is 147,500,000 people, it is very often the second dose that is worse than the first, which means that it is about 10/100,000 people.
But then you don't even believe the people who have suffered, so I doubt you even believe that about the second dose.
Let me correct your facts "with approximately 18% of hospitalised patients suffering myocardial injury in the acute phase."
All the data in that UK Gov link is now months out of date and as you have seen, the cases are now much higher than they were.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 09:52 - Dec 4 with 877 viewsFlynnidine_Zidownes

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 20:08 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad

As I said on the other forum, it is all we have.


Yes but literally anybody can submit false reports. You could have a situation where conspiracy nutters submit several reports saying they’ve died then when the graph goes up they say look this proves the vaccine kills people. It’s not proper data, it literally says it’s not reliable yet you use it as evidence to back up your argument.
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 10:04 - Dec 4 with 871 viewsCatullus

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 20:29 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad

296000000 doses is 147,500,000 people, it is very often the second dose that is worse than the first, which means that it is about 10/100,000 people.
But then you don't even believe the people who have suffered, so I doubt you even believe that about the second dose.
Let me correct your facts "with approximately 18% of hospitalised patients suffering myocardial injury in the acute phase."
All the data in that UK Gov link is now months out of date and as you have seen, the cases are now much higher than they were.


Who has said the second dose is very often worse? (it'd be 148 million btw) I had worse "adverse effects" after the first dose, hardly any after the second and third besides a sore arm for a few hours. After the first dose it felt like a mild hangover, hardly that bad.

The VAERS data can be submitted by absolutely anybody and as we have been witnessing ever more extreme behaviour from the deniers it's not to hard to believe there have been many faked reports that skew the numbers.

Have you got new data then? I accept the data in the Op is out of date but what evidence is there that numbers are now much higher? Or is that just another assumption?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 10:09 - Dec 4 with 865 viewsKeithHaynes

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 10:04 - Dec 4 by Catullus

Who has said the second dose is very often worse? (it'd be 148 million btw) I had worse "adverse effects" after the first dose, hardly any after the second and third besides a sore arm for a few hours. After the first dose it felt like a mild hangover, hardly that bad.

The VAERS data can be submitted by absolutely anybody and as we have been witnessing ever more extreme behaviour from the deniers it's not to hard to believe there have been many faked reports that skew the numbers.

Have you got new data then? I accept the data in the Op is out of date but what evidence is there that numbers are now much higher? Or is that just another assumption?


I think it’s relevant as it’s the latest ‘considered’ official information.
However, it needs updating agreed.

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People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 10:52 - Dec 4 with 840 viewsjojaca

People & players collapsing at sporting events etc on 10:09 - Dec 4 by KeithHaynes

I think it’s relevant as it’s the latest ‘considered’ official information.
However, it needs updating agreed.


If the trend continues, it will need investigating. I've never heard so many in such a short period, but everything is heightened because of the vaccine programme, could be just a innocent concidence.

Even when you know, you never know?

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