| Welsh tourism tax on 07:20 - Apr 27 with 774 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 07:05 - Apr 27 by Kilkennyjack |
‘There is indeed ample polling evidence that somewhere between 25 and 30% of Welsh voters would now vote yes in any referendum, with the shift towards independence particularly pronounced among younger, remain-leaning voters’.
Your 14% is a decade out of date Felix, so a bit like you.
ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º |
Latest poll only had 24% in favour of Welsh independence.
Less than the 47% who actually turned up to vote in the Senedd for Labour's policies which are 100 years out of date.
No doubt those in favour growing slowly following 2 years of anti English propaganda from Drakeford paid for by the Welsh taxpayers
You have still not answered the four vital independence questions. I will give you another chance.
1) How will the Senedd replace the annual UK government subsidy.
2) What currency will Wales use.
3) Will there be hard borders.
4) How will Wales replace the 300,000 government jobs in Wales, which is 20% of the Welsh workforce. [Post edited 27 Apr 2022 7:28]
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| Welsh tourism tax on 07:31 - Apr 27 with 759 views | Dr_Winston |
| Welsh tourism tax on 07:20 - Apr 27 by felixstowe_jack |
Latest poll only had 24% in favour of Welsh independence.
Less than the 47% who actually turned up to vote in the Senedd for Labour's policies which are 100 years out of date.
No doubt those in favour growing slowly following 2 years of anti English propaganda from Drakeford paid for by the Welsh taxpayers
You have still not answered the four vital independence questions. I will give you another chance.
1) How will the Senedd replace the annual UK government subsidy.
2) What currency will Wales use.
3) Will there be hard borders.
4) How will Wales replace the 300,000 government jobs in Wales, which is 20% of the Welsh workforce. [Post edited 27 Apr 2022 7:28]
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He won't have answers for you. He never does. There will just be another piece of whataboutery. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 09:31 - Apr 27 with 734 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 07:31 - Apr 27 by Dr_Winston |
He won't have answers for you. He never does. There will just be another piece of whataboutery. |
That is why the vast majority will never vote for Welsh Independence, just PC, 16 and 17 year old children plus of course the unemployment who don't pay taxes. | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 11:57 - Apr 27 with 698 views | union_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 07:31 - Apr 27 by Dr_Winston |
He won't have answers for you. He never does. There will just be another piece of whataboutery. |
I think if you Google the definition of ‘deluded’ it references Kilkenny’s posts on this site as perfect examples.
Similarly ‘confused’.
And ‘wrong’ |  |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 12:37 - Apr 27 with 678 views | Wingstandwood |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:31 - Apr 27 by felixstowe_jack |
That is why the vast majority will never vote for Welsh Independence, just PC, 16 and 17 year old children plus of course the unemployment who don't pay taxes. |
It's student activist mindset stuff, looney nationalist lefty stuff and forever in the public sector (never out of the public sector) Welsh language professor types from Aberystwyth, Caernarfon and Machynlleth stuff.
People who do not have the slightest idea about how the private sector works from people so 'out-of-it' they even fail to recognise that modern economies need modern infrastructure just to be on a level playing field.
It's actually scary how isolationist and backward thinking these Yokels are! They thrive on imaginary English/Westminster repression and English/Westminster caused victimhood that dates back to times when a doctor was basically the person in the village who had the biggest bag of leeches! |  |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 13:02 - Apr 27 with 665 views | onehunglow |
| Welsh tourism tax on 12:37 - Apr 27 by Wingstandwood |
It's student activist mindset stuff, looney nationalist lefty stuff and forever in the public sector (never out of the public sector) Welsh language professor types from Aberystwyth, Caernarfon and Machynlleth stuff.
People who do not have the slightest idea about how the private sector works from people so 'out-of-it' they even fail to recognise that modern economies need modern infrastructure just to be on a level playing field.
It's actually scary how isolationist and backward thinking these Yokels are! They thrive on imaginary English/Westminster repression and English/Westminster caused victimhood that dates back to times when a doctor was basically the person in the village who had the biggest bag of leeches! |
It's the middle class Welsh nats that drive it as they can afford it. | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 13:43 - Apr 27 with 651 views | Wingstandwood |
| Welsh tourism tax on 13:02 - Apr 27 by onehunglow |
It's the middle class Welsh nats that drive it as they can afford it. |
Aye! They of paid for detached house in a leafy suburb or in spacious countryside surrounds, BUPA membership, BMW and gold plated public sector pension can?.... Also?.... Get a nice little cushy earner in the 'third-sector' and quango-industry servicing the Welsh Language, the arts and Welsh poverty that they do not want to ever go away.
Full Welsh impendence would be the most advantageous pig-n'-trough trough opportunity for the right people! | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 17:24 - Apr 27 with 622 views | Lorax |
| Welsh tourism tax on 12:37 - Apr 27 by Wingstandwood |
It's student activist mindset stuff, looney nationalist lefty stuff and forever in the public sector (never out of the public sector) Welsh language professor types from Aberystwyth, Caernarfon and Machynlleth stuff.
People who do not have the slightest idea about how the private sector works from people so 'out-of-it' they even fail to recognise that modern economies need modern infrastructure just to be on a level playing field.
It's actually scary how isolationist and backward thinking these Yokels are! They thrive on imaginary English/Westminster repression and English/Westminster caused victimhood that dates back to times when a doctor was basically the person in the village who had the biggest bag of leeches! |
What Kilky and these other like minded folks (maybe not Langy, he at least makes reasoned posts on the subject) never get into their heads is that most people, as they age, become more likely to vote Conservative
It's a proven long term trend of politics.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/03/do-we-become-more-conserva
So young people now who are on his Indy bus will probably have changed their minds by the time any vote comes.
If the Indy mob are to get what they want, they don't need to convince the already convinced, they need to convince the rest of us but to be a likely Tory voter probably makes you a unionist too and while many battles can be won the indy mob needs to beat ageing, a fight they cannot win. | | | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 17:42 - Apr 27 with 617 views | Wingstandwood |
| Welsh tourism tax on 17:24 - Apr 27 by Lorax |
What Kilky and these other like minded folks (maybe not Langy, he at least makes reasoned posts on the subject) never get into their heads is that most people, as they age, become more likely to vote Conservative
It's a proven long term trend of politics.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/03/do-we-become-more-conserva
So young people now who are on his Indy bus will probably have changed their minds by the time any vote comes.
If the Indy mob are to get what they want, they don't need to convince the already convinced, they need to convince the rest of us but to be a likely Tory voter probably makes you a unionist too and while many battles can be won the indy mob needs to beat ageing, a fight they cannot win. |
They do indeed need to convince people! The trouble is 20+ years of that lot in Cardiff Bay has done the total opposite of being impressive enough to create an appetite for full independence. In fact giving that lot more power absolutely scares the living daylights out of rational minded sorts.
To top that if there was full independence the same lot will be in charge anyhow, because if the status quo/political establishment/mainstream are banned from standing at an election? It'll mean that Wales would then be under undemocratic rule.
So its a choice of more of the same with the incompetent's, economic partition and Cardiff bias or an Welsh nationalist loony-tune dictatorship! Now that's NOT something to look forward to! | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 18:48 - Apr 27 with 594 views | johnlangy |
| Welsh tourism tax on 07:20 - Apr 27 by felixstowe_jack |
Latest poll only had 24% in favour of Welsh independence.
Less than the 47% who actually turned up to vote in the Senedd for Labour's policies which are 100 years out of date.
No doubt those in favour growing slowly following 2 years of anti English propaganda from Drakeford paid for by the Welsh taxpayers
You have still not answered the four vital independence questions. I will give you another chance.
1) How will the Senedd replace the annual UK government subsidy.
2) What currency will Wales use.
3) Will there be hard borders.
4) How will Wales replace the 300,000 government jobs in Wales, which is 20% of the Welsh workforce. [Post edited 27 Apr 2022 7:28]
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1 - I presume you're referring to the Fiscal Deficit. You will probably say yet again, even though it's been disproved so many times, that this amount is £13 billion. It would be actually much smaller than that if Wales was to become Independent. The whole of the UK has a budget deficit. Every Nation and region of the UK apart from London and the SE of England has a budget deficit while London/SE has a surplus. The Government borrows the money to cover that deficit. The Senedd is not allowed to borrow the money to cover the Wales part of the deficit. So Westminster does it on our behalf. It's not a subsidy because it ends up as part of the National debt which we all will end up paying (if it is ever paid off).
2 - Sterling initially I imagine.
3- No.
4 - Please explain where these 300,000 jobs are and i'll make an attempt at answering.
By the way, you criticize Killkenny for not answering questions you put. You've not answered questions I put to you on many occasions. | | | |
| Welsh tourism tax on 19:24 - Apr 27 with 566 views | Boundy |
| Welsh tourism tax on 18:48 - Apr 27 by johnlangy |
1 - I presume you're referring to the Fiscal Deficit. You will probably say yet again, even though it's been disproved so many times, that this amount is £13 billion. It would be actually much smaller than that if Wales was to become Independent. The whole of the UK has a budget deficit. Every Nation and region of the UK apart from London and the SE of England has a budget deficit while London/SE has a surplus. The Government borrows the money to cover that deficit. The Senedd is not allowed to borrow the money to cover the Wales part of the deficit. So Westminster does it on our behalf. It's not a subsidy because it ends up as part of the National debt which we all will end up paying (if it is ever paid off).
2 - Sterling initially I imagine.
3- No.
4 - Please explain where these 300,000 jobs are and i'll make an attempt at answering.
By the way, you criticize Killkenny for not answering questions you put. You've not answered questions I put to you on many occasions. |
Two questions if you don't mind , would you be happy to be an independent nation with Labour in charge and why? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 20:23 - Apr 27 with 546 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 19:24 - Apr 27 by Boundy |
Two questions if you don't mind , would you be happy to be an independent nation with Labour in charge and why? |
Thats a dumb ass question.
It normal for a nation to want to run its own affairs.
Self determination the UN call it.
Not 800 years of London rule imposed on Wales.
Yes we want normality - yes, an independent Cymru.
Who controls Cymru will be voted on by the welsh people.
Traditionally left of centre but that might change.
Thats the beauty of democratic nations, the people get to decide.
Wales voted Labour, England votes Tory.
So Wales gets Boris Johnson 🤡.
Thats not the way it needs to work. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh tourism tax on 20:25 - Apr 27 with 545 views | Boundy |
| Welsh tourism tax on 20:23 - Apr 27 by Kilkennyjack |
Thats a dumb ass question.
It normal for a nation to want to run its own affairs.
Self determination the UN call it.
Not 800 years of London rule imposed on Wales.
Yes we want normality - yes, an independent Cymru.
Who controls Cymru will be voted on by the welsh people.
Traditionally left of centre but that might change.
Thats the beauty of democratic nations, the people get to decide.
Wales voted Labour, England votes Tory.
So Wales gets Boris Johnson 🤡.
Thats not the way it needs to work. |
The question wasn't directed at you , I would have liked an adult to respond , either that or someone with an IQ higher than 50 . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 22:11 - Apr 27 with 523 views | Lorax |
| Welsh tourism tax on 18:48 - Apr 27 by johnlangy |
1 - I presume you're referring to the Fiscal Deficit. You will probably say yet again, even though it's been disproved so many times, that this amount is £13 billion. It would be actually much smaller than that if Wales was to become Independent. The whole of the UK has a budget deficit. Every Nation and region of the UK apart from London and the SE of England has a budget deficit while London/SE has a surplus. The Government borrows the money to cover that deficit. The Senedd is not allowed to borrow the money to cover the Wales part of the deficit. So Westminster does it on our behalf. It's not a subsidy because it ends up as part of the National debt which we all will end up paying (if it is ever paid off).
2 - Sterling initially I imagine.
3- No.
4 - Please explain where these 300,000 jobs are and i'll make an attempt at answering.
By the way, you criticize Killkenny for not answering questions you put. You've not answered questions I put to you on many occasions. |
Now John, we've been here before. nobody can put a number on the accurate fiscal deficit, it may be much smaller, it may only be a little bit smaller, nobody knows. Well maybe somebody knows but they aren't telling us.
If we used Sterling we wouldn't be independent as Drakeford has said more than once. Wed have to obey UK fiscal policy and follow rules set by the Bank of England.
I don't know exactly how many jobs we'd lose if we went Indy but there would be job losses. The DVLA would lose a lot to start with. Then there's the military. On the plus side we would also lose all the MP's, any cut in politicians is welcomed by me!
The border thing, a hard border would be a disaster for Wales.
The other issue, John, EU membership. Some on here think it would be an automatic thing but it would be a long hard road and with all the instability in Europe currently it can only get harder. Some on here thought the UK couldn't manage outside the EU, how would Wales manage outside both unions? | | | |
| Welsh tourism tax on 22:32 - Apr 27 with 516 views | Boundy |
| Welsh tourism tax on 22:11 - Apr 27 by Lorax |
Now John, we've been here before. nobody can put a number on the accurate fiscal deficit, it may be much smaller, it may only be a little bit smaller, nobody knows. Well maybe somebody knows but they aren't telling us.
If we used Sterling we wouldn't be independent as Drakeford has said more than once. Wed have to obey UK fiscal policy and follow rules set by the Bank of England.
I don't know exactly how many jobs we'd lose if we went Indy but there would be job losses. The DVLA would lose a lot to start with. Then there's the military. On the plus side we would also lose all the MP's, any cut in politicians is welcomed by me!
The border thing, a hard border would be a disaster for Wales.
The other issue, John, EU membership. Some on here think it would be an automatic thing but it would be a long hard road and with all the instability in Europe currently it can only get harder. Some on here thought the UK couldn't manage outside the EU, how would Wales manage outside both unions? |
Independence and a return to the EU , with the Euro , its rules and regulations . I'm not sure what definition of independence that would be . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 06:12 - Apr 28 with 497 views | Dr_Winston |
| Welsh tourism tax on 22:32 - Apr 27 by Boundy |
Independence and a return to the EU , with the Euro , its rules and regulations . I'm not sure what definition of independence that would be . |
The complete failure of these people to grasp the contradiction between stating a desire to be an independent Wales and also stating a desire to become a tiny, irrelevant cog in an even bigger, much more undemocratic machine has always been amusing.
Wales being dictated to by an elected Parliament in Westminster is apparently bad. Wales being dicated to by unelected Commissioners in Brussels/Strasbourg is apparently just hunky dory. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 7:04]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 08:11 - Apr 28 with 478 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 06:12 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston |
The complete failure of these people to grasp the contradiction between stating a desire to be an independent Wales and also stating a desire to become a tiny, irrelevant cog in an even bigger, much more undemocratic machine has always been amusing.
Wales being dictated to by an elected Parliament in Westminster is apparently bad. Wales being dicated to by unelected Commissioners in Brussels/Strasbourg is apparently just hunky dory. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 7:04]
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You have hit the nail on the head Wales being governed by an elected democratic UK parliament which Wales has elected MPs sitting in is apparently wrong.
Wales being dictated to by 27 unelected EU commissioners is apparently great, even if Wales has no say in the appointment of the commissioners. Hardly democratic. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 8:32]
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| Welsh tourism tax on 08:22 - Apr 28 with 476 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 18:48 - Apr 27 by johnlangy |
1 - I presume you're referring to the Fiscal Deficit. You will probably say yet again, even though it's been disproved so many times, that this amount is £13 billion. It would be actually much smaller than that if Wales was to become Independent. The whole of the UK has a budget deficit. Every Nation and region of the UK apart from London and the SE of England has a budget deficit while London/SE has a surplus. The Government borrows the money to cover that deficit. The Senedd is not allowed to borrow the money to cover the Wales part of the deficit. So Westminster does it on our behalf. It's not a subsidy because it ends up as part of the National debt which we all will end up paying (if it is ever paid off).
2 - Sterling initially I imagine.
3- No.
4 - Please explain where these 300,000 jobs are and i'll make an attempt at answering.
By the way, you criticize Killkenny for not answering questions you put. You've not answered questions I put to you on many occasions. |
1) not answered.
2) can't be sterling if Wales is an independent country
3) no hard borders mean a single market the larger England would set rules and taxation policies if Wales set their taxes too high to fund themselves people will pop across border to shop
4) just Google it to find where these 300,000 jobs are a few hints for you
DVLA, passport office Newport, land registry car, HMRC. These offices serve the whole of the UK wales will new much smaller offices. | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 08:29 - Apr 28 with 470 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh tourism tax on 20:23 - Apr 27 by Kilkennyjack |
Thats a dumb ass question.
It normal for a nation to want to run its own affairs.
Self determination the UN call it.
Not 800 years of London rule imposed on Wales.
Yes we want normality - yes, an independent Cymru.
Who controls Cymru will be voted on by the welsh people.
Traditionally left of centre but that might change.
Thats the beauty of democratic nations, the people get to decide.
Wales voted Labour, England votes Tory.
So Wales gets Boris Johnson 🤡.
Thats not the way it needs to work. |
Still not answered my questions have you.
Wales is not a seperate sovereign nation as defined by the UN
All opion polls show Wales wants to stay as part of the United Kingdom in which it has a democratic poll.
Even in the recent referendum Wales voted to leave the undemocratic EU in which it has no say. Wales voted to leave and remain in the UK. | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 09:01 - Apr 28 with 442 views | Lorax |
| Welsh tourism tax on 06:12 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston |
The complete failure of these people to grasp the contradiction between stating a desire to be an independent Wales and also stating a desire to become a tiny, irrelevant cog in an even bigger, much more undemocratic machine has always been amusing.
Wales being dictated to by an elected Parliament in Westminster is apparently bad. Wales being dicated to by unelected Commissioners in Brussels/Strasbourg is apparently just hunky dory. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 7:04]
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Absolutely. I voted leave and I wouldn't vote to join the EU again while we're in the UK. I woildn't vote for indy either, staying in the UK is better for us. The EU gave Wales a small fraction of what Westminster gives, even if the fiscal deficit is only 10% of what is claimed, Westminster gives us twice as much as the EU did, it should be a no brainer. Westminster doesn't demand we fly the UK flag above every project either.
However, if we went indy, if enough voted for it, then I would have to think again. Im not saying I definitely would but if we went it alone with the prospect of being run from the bay by labour for decades, being in the EU may not be so bad, in fact, with the Senedd having to follow all EU rules, it'd probably be the better choice.
There's a thing to admit, I'd rather be run from the EU than from the Senedd. | | | |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:05 - Apr 28 with 434 views | Whiterockin |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:01 - Apr 28 by Lorax |
Absolutely. I voted leave and I wouldn't vote to join the EU again while we're in the UK. I woildn't vote for indy either, staying in the UK is better for us. The EU gave Wales a small fraction of what Westminster gives, even if the fiscal deficit is only 10% of what is claimed, Westminster gives us twice as much as the EU did, it should be a no brainer. Westminster doesn't demand we fly the UK flag above every project either.
However, if we went indy, if enough voted for it, then I would have to think again. Im not saying I definitely would but if we went it alone with the prospect of being run from the bay by labour for decades, being in the EU may not be so bad, in fact, with the Senedd having to follow all EU rules, it'd probably be the better choice.
There's a thing to admit, I'd rather be run from the EU than from the Senedd. |
"There's a thing to admit, I'd rather be run from the EU than from the Senedd."
The lesser of two evils, but no evil is better. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 9:06]
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| Welsh tourism tax on 09:09 - Apr 28 with 419 views | onehunglow |
| Welsh tourism tax on 08:29 - Apr 28 by felixstowe_jack |
Still not answered my questions have you.
Wales is not a seperate sovereign nation as defined by the UN
All opion polls show Wales wants to stay as part of the United Kingdom in which it has a democratic poll.
Even in the recent referendum Wales voted to leave the undemocratic EU in which it has no say. Wales voted to leave and remain in the UK. |
How can anyone say Britain is not a sovereign nation and at the same time make out Wales is.That is not true,no matter what sentimental ,insular drivel is stuck in the mind.
Wales cannot exist on it's own.The vast majority know that.
They can hate the English and still be British . | |
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| Welsh tourism tax on 09:33 - Apr 28 with 396 views | johnlangy |
| Welsh tourism tax on 06:12 - Apr 28 by Dr_Winston |
The complete failure of these people to grasp the contradiction between stating a desire to be an independent Wales and also stating a desire to become a tiny, irrelevant cog in an even bigger, much more undemocratic machine has always been amusing.
Wales being dictated to by an elected Parliament in Westminster is apparently bad. Wales being dicated to by unelected Commissioners in Brussels/Strasbourg is apparently just hunky dory. [Post edited 28 Apr 2022 7:04]
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Who are 'these people' Dr ? From memory I don't believe i've included EU membership after Independence in any of my posts. And I don't understand why you do.
If there was a Welsh Indy referendum it wouldn't be for ten years or more (just for the sake of putting a number of years on it). If there was then an appetite for a referendum on Wales joining the Eu that would also be probably another ten years after.
So that 'possibility' would not come about till mid century. Meanwhile the EU may very well have broken up, or at least changed drastically so what's the point in linking the two ? | | | |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:39 - Apr 28 with 394 views | Lorax |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:09 - Apr 28 by onehunglow |
How can anyone say Britain is not a sovereign nation and at the same time make out Wales is.That is not true,no matter what sentimental ,insular drivel is stuck in the mind.
Wales cannot exist on it's own.The vast majority know that.
They can hate the English and still be British . |
Oh it's not that I think Wales cannot exist on its own. It can, obviously. it's just that I think we are far better off in the UK.
The Welsh are the original British, to deny being British is to deny who we are. We were called "Welsh" by the invaders, it being the word they used for "strangers" and to welsh on something is to fail to honour a debt or obligation, it is an insult bestowed on us Celtic Britons by the then invaders.
I am British and Welsh though in my opinion the world would be much better off if we all just accepted we are human being who live on planet Earth, did away with nationalities and borders and all actually worked together for the greater good.
it'll never catch on though. | | | |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:41 - Apr 28 with 393 views | onehunglow |
| Welsh tourism tax on 09:39 - Apr 28 by Lorax |
Oh it's not that I think Wales cannot exist on its own. It can, obviously. it's just that I think we are far better off in the UK.
The Welsh are the original British, to deny being British is to deny who we are. We were called "Welsh" by the invaders, it being the word they used for "strangers" and to welsh on something is to fail to honour a debt or obligation, it is an insult bestowed on us Celtic Britons by the then invaders.
I am British and Welsh though in my opinion the world would be much better off if we all just accepted we are human being who live on planet Earth, did away with nationalities and borders and all actually worked together for the greater good.
it'll never catch on though. |
Dont agree with the first paragraph but the rest is class and how I feel really.
Wales is divided,too divided . | |
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