| Evils of hate. 19:44 - Jun 17 with 2716 views | Sirjohnalot |
When you hear Peter Bone and Priti Patel, watch this….
Matt Lucas, Who Do You Think You Are.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018bjf
It could so easily happen here
As it says in the Holocaust Museum in Berlin
‘It happened before it can happen again ‘ |  | | |  |
| Evils of hate. on 20:34 - Jun 17 with 1306 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure that is something to be throwing around lightly. Not being a fan of illegal immigration and mass refugee influxes doesn’t mean you hate them.
I wasn’t allowed into Australia, I had to then qualify through skills. I didn’t think they hated me or wanted to kill me.
It couldn’t “easily” happen at all, certainly not in Britain.
It’s dangerous to be making these comparisons for pretty sensible opinion and anything that deviates from the unrealistic utopia some seem infatuated with. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 20:40]
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| Evils of hate. on 20:46 - Jun 17 with 1289 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 20:34 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure that is something to be throwing around lightly. Not being a fan of illegal immigration and mass refugee influxes doesn’t mean you hate them.
I wasn’t allowed into Australia, I had to then qualify through skills. I didn’t think they hated me or wanted to kill me.
It couldn’t “easily” happen at all, certainly not in Britain.
It’s dangerous to be making these comparisons for pretty sensible opinion and anything that deviates from the unrealistic utopia some seem infatuated with. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 20:40]
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Please have a listen to what Bone said and the way he said it. He was very aggressive, referring to refugees and numbers and not people. It was disgusting.
I’ve seen an increase in racially aggravated offences since brexit, a lot of people feel they can come out and say these things especially when you have a PM talking about ‘letter boxes’ s d the various slurs against black people.
The comments you hear from from people when it comes to refugees is hatred. I’m not talking about anything you’ve said, I disagree with you but you’ve not said anything wrong but there is a growing feeling of nastiness in this country which certainly wasn’t here in the 2012 olympics.
No one is a fan of mass refugees influxes or Illegal immigration and of course it doesn’t mean you hate them but dehumanising a set of people has parallels, and that’s exactly what Bone and Patel, and obviously Farage do. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 20:51 - Jun 17 with 1280 views | KeithHaynes |
| Evils of hate. on 20:46 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Please have a listen to what Bone said and the way he said it. He was very aggressive, referring to refugees and numbers and not people. It was disgusting.
I’ve seen an increase in racially aggravated offences since brexit, a lot of people feel they can come out and say these things especially when you have a PM talking about ‘letter boxes’ s d the various slurs against black people.
The comments you hear from from people when it comes to refugees is hatred. I’m not talking about anything you’ve said, I disagree with you but you’ve not said anything wrong but there is a growing feeling of nastiness in this country which certainly wasn’t here in the 2012 olympics.
No one is a fan of mass refugees influxes or Illegal immigration and of course it doesn’t mean you hate them but dehumanising a set of people has parallels, and that’s exactly what Bone and Patel, and obviously Farage do. |
Welcome to the team Sir John ðŸ‘
The most positive thing we have done in months. |  |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:02 - Jun 17 with 1248 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 20:46 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Please have a listen to what Bone said and the way he said it. He was very aggressive, referring to refugees and numbers and not people. It was disgusting.
I’ve seen an increase in racially aggravated offences since brexit, a lot of people feel they can come out and say these things especially when you have a PM talking about ‘letter boxes’ s d the various slurs against black people.
The comments you hear from from people when it comes to refugees is hatred. I’m not talking about anything you’ve said, I disagree with you but you’ve not said anything wrong but there is a growing feeling of nastiness in this country which certainly wasn’t here in the 2012 olympics.
No one is a fan of mass refugees influxes or Illegal immigration and of course it doesn’t mean you hate them but dehumanising a set of people has parallels, and that’s exactly what Bone and Patel, and obviously Farage do. |
Do you have any quotes you can refer to?
In this day and age people throw about the word hate, racism, dehumanising - but the reality is often wide of the mark.
While you aren’t specifically referring to my opinion, it’s very easily conflated. Again I’ve been called a racist for saying Rashfords penalty was rubbish. That was conflated because he was being attacked online.
So while you may not be making the connection, others far less intelligent will - which is why these comparisons are extremely dangerous. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:10 - Jun 17 with 1240 views | Gwyn737 |
| Evils of hate. on 20:46 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Please have a listen to what Bone said and the way he said it. He was very aggressive, referring to refugees and numbers and not people. It was disgusting.
I’ve seen an increase in racially aggravated offences since brexit, a lot of people feel they can come out and say these things especially when you have a PM talking about ‘letter boxes’ s d the various slurs against black people.
The comments you hear from from people when it comes to refugees is hatred. I’m not talking about anything you’ve said, I disagree with you but you’ve not said anything wrong but there is a growing feeling of nastiness in this country which certainly wasn’t here in the 2012 olympics.
No one is a fan of mass refugees influxes or Illegal immigration and of course it doesn’t mean you hate them but dehumanising a set of people has parallels, and that’s exactly what Bone and Patel, and obviously Farage do. |
There are many moderate Tories that would agree with you on Bone et al, and there are many who voted leave for a myriad of reasons that didn’t include immigration.
To ‘get Brexit done’ the Tory party had to absorb the UKIP types to secure the vote, that means we have to put up with some of these hardline politicians and their policies. It’s necessary for them to stay in power.
It’s worrying going forward as without a UKIP type party, the Tories can leave room to the right. We’ve not seen the end of these type of policies. |  | | |
| Evils of hate. on 21:24 - Jun 17 with 1224 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 21:10 - Jun 17 by Gwyn737 |
There are many moderate Tories that would agree with you on Bone et al, and there are many who voted leave for a myriad of reasons that didn’t include immigration.
To ‘get Brexit done’ the Tory party had to absorb the UKIP types to secure the vote, that means we have to put up with some of these hardline politicians and their policies. It’s necessary for them to stay in power.
It’s worrying going forward as without a UKIP type party, the Tories can leave room to the right. We’ve not seen the end of these type of policies. |
Why does a UKIP party worry you?
This is what I find bizarre about this whole thing. There is so much faux fear and hyperbole to opinions that don’t fit with what the left see as the only acceptable ones.
Far too much stereotyping going on for my liking. You can be a UKIP supporter and be a perfectly reasonable person, both morally and ethically.
This is starting to remind me of the USA where the media was saying all Republicans or Trump voters were racist. It also has similar vibes to the Mexican border crisis where that was also used to falsely accuse Trump voters of being racist, Nazis and a whole plethora of ugly and wholly fraudulent things.
There are real discussions to be had regarding these subjects. Someone who doesn’t think the same way is fine, doesn’t mean you should be scared of them and it doesn’t make them the devil.
There are very good reasons why people don’t like mass immigration, which have nothing to do with race. It works the same regardless of country, skin colour, religion or race. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:30 - Jun 17 with 1220 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 21:02 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Do you have any quotes you can refer to?
In this day and age people throw about the word hate, racism, dehumanising - but the reality is often wide of the mark.
While you aren’t specifically referring to my opinion, it’s very easily conflated. Again I’ve been called a racist for saying Rashfords penalty was rubbish. That was conflated because he was being attacked online.
So while you may not be making the connection, others far less intelligent will - which is why these comparisons are extremely dangerous. |
I don’t need to quote, just put his name in YouTube have a look at what he says. This week in parliament I think it was. | | | |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:38 - Jun 17 with 1206 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 21:30 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
I don’t need to quote, just put his name in YouTube have a look at what he says. This week in parliament I think it was. |
But I want us to be talking about the same specific examples.
Otherwise I’ll be aimlessly searching through videos. You must know some exact quotes from him if you are shocked by what he’s said.
From my experience those on the left, which I think you have said you are, often make sweeping statements very similar to yours. But they are never backed up with any specifics.
We had someone on the other thread we are in accuse people of racism, when he was asked he said “I’m not going to bother entertaining that”…. Of course there was nothing, he said it because it’s a leftist trick to plant a seed and hope others use their imagination to fill in the blanks to fit with what the broad accusation is.
I’m not saying that is what you are doing of course, but these days I don’t take these descriptive words as face value until I see for myself what specific sentences has prompted such a description.
For example someone said Trump was spewing hate and racism. After some lengthy back and forths with the person in question reluctant to give me an example, they ended up saying he wanted to build a wall on the US/Mexican border. I explained that was for illegal immigration and they immediately went back to the generic again… “there was other stuff too, he’s just racist”.
Hope you don’t mind me asking what has specifically pushed to to make these comments, as they are pretty strong. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:47 - Jun 17 with 1201 views | Gwyn737 |
| Evils of hate. on 21:24 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why does a UKIP party worry you?
This is what I find bizarre about this whole thing. There is so much faux fear and hyperbole to opinions that don’t fit with what the left see as the only acceptable ones.
Far too much stereotyping going on for my liking. You can be a UKIP supporter and be a perfectly reasonable person, both morally and ethically.
This is starting to remind me of the USA where the media was saying all Republicans or Trump voters were racist. It also has similar vibes to the Mexican border crisis where that was also used to falsely accuse Trump voters of being racist, Nazis and a whole plethora of ugly and wholly fraudulent things.
There are real discussions to be had regarding these subjects. Someone who doesn’t think the same way is fine, doesn’t mean you should be scared of them and it doesn’t make them the devil.
There are very good reasons why people don’t like mass immigration, which have nothing to do with race. It works the same regardless of country, skin colour, religion or race. |
It’s now you who keeps bring up race not me.
I don’t like the UKIP ideals because their idea of nationalism is not in my eyes patriotic- it’s isolationist.
Arguing against it and thinking it’s wrong is not stereotyping, it’s having an opinion.
This is a forum, a place for exchanging ideas. You seem to want to use it as a competition.
Surely you can’t be surprised that when you ask the question “what would you do to sort immigration?” you don’t get a fully formed policy that’s a silver bullet? | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 21:53 - Jun 17 with 1185 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 21:47 - Jun 17 by Gwyn737 |
It’s now you who keeps bring up race not me.
I don’t like the UKIP ideals because their idea of nationalism is not in my eyes patriotic- it’s isolationist.
Arguing against it and thinking it’s wrong is not stereotyping, it’s having an opinion.
This is a forum, a place for exchanging ideas. You seem to want to use it as a competition.
Surely you can’t be surprised that when you ask the question “what would you do to sort immigration?” you don’t get a fully formed policy that’s a silver bullet? |
Not sure I have accused you of bringing up race have I? Strange comment.
Disagreeing with them is fine, stating they are worrisome and making disparaging assertions isn’t though.
Exchanging ideas is fine, but again that isn’t what you are doing. Yourself and SirJon appear to be making horrific sweeping comparisons where you won’t say directly what you are referring to, but it’s obviously implied.
You are both attacking character, not ideas.
By all means put forward your opinion on what you would like to see, by all means try and dismantle what others would like to see.
But leave all the nonsense regarding people’s character at the door. These constant references to hate, concern, worry, racism, dehumanising, nazism - it’s very tiring and does the discussion no good whatsoever. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 21:59 - Jun 17 with 1179 views | Gwyn737 |
| Evils of hate. on 21:53 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure I have accused you of bringing up race have I? Strange comment.
Disagreeing with them is fine, stating they are worrisome and making disparaging assertions isn’t though.
Exchanging ideas is fine, but again that isn’t what you are doing. Yourself and SirJon appear to be making horrific sweeping comparisons where you won’t say directly what you are referring to, but it’s obviously implied.
You are both attacking character, not ideas.
By all means put forward your opinion on what you would like to see, by all means try and dismantle what others would like to see.
But leave all the nonsense regarding people’s character at the door. These constant references to hate, concern, worry, racism, dehumanising, nazism - it’s very tiring and does the discussion no good whatsoever. |
The irony of you calling someone tiring 🤣
This is the bit where I bow out and you claim ‘victory’. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 with 1173 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 21:59 - Jun 17 by Gwyn737 |
The irony of you calling someone tiring 🤣
This is the bit where I bow out and you claim ‘victory’. |
I wasn’t calling you tiresome, I was saying the tactic of attacking character is.
But it doesn’t surprise me that instead of discussing it you decide to insult and leave. It’s what the left do once the surface is scratched.
When you gather your thoughts and are willing to enter a debate that doesn’t rely on faux declarations of fear and worry and leaves character assumptions at the door then let me know.
Something tells me that may be a pipe dream though. A bit like mass immigration being a wonderful idea I suppose. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 with 1178 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 21:38 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
But I want us to be talking about the same specific examples.
Otherwise I’ll be aimlessly searching through videos. You must know some exact quotes from him if you are shocked by what he’s said.
From my experience those on the left, which I think you have said you are, often make sweeping statements very similar to yours. But they are never backed up with any specifics.
We had someone on the other thread we are in accuse people of racism, when he was asked he said “I’m not going to bother entertaining that”…. Of course there was nothing, he said it because it’s a leftist trick to plant a seed and hope others use their imagination to fill in the blanks to fit with what the broad accusation is.
I’m not saying that is what you are doing of course, but these days I don’t take these descriptive words as face value until I see for myself what specific sentences has prompted such a description.
For example someone said Trump was spewing hate and racism. After some lengthy back and forths with the person in question reluctant to give me an example, they ended up saying he wanted to build a wall on the US/Mexican border. I explained that was for illegal immigration and they immediately went back to the generic again… “there was other stuff too, he’s just racist”.
Hope you don’t mind me asking what has specifically pushed to to make these comments, as they are pretty strong. |
Fair point re giving you the link
Hope that works.
Im left of centre. Certainly not a Tory but the extreme left of the Labour worry me too. I respect Rory Stewart, Yvette Cooper, Johnny Mercer eg I all like. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:06 - Jun 17 with 1164 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Fair point re giving you the link
Hope that works.
Im left of centre. Certainly not a Tory but the extreme left of the Labour worry me too. I respect Rory Stewart, Yvette Cooper, Johnny Mercer eg I all like. |
Ok thanks.
I’m not seeing anything you describe though? He’s someone who doesn’t agree with the influx of refugees and is annoyed they aren’t being sent out of the country.
A bit of an obnoxious way to put it, and I’m sure he was trying to stir parliament - but hate? Racism?
I don’t see it.
Remember publicly spoken racism is a crime. Imagine going to the police and then taking a transcript of that and reading it out in court as to the charge of racism. As I’m sure you know, if wouldn’t even get to court. There is no evidence of racism there at all. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 22:10]
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| Evils of hate. on 22:08 - Jun 17 with 1164 views | Gwyn737 |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
I wasn’t calling you tiresome, I was saying the tactic of attacking character is.
But it doesn’t surprise me that instead of discussing it you decide to insult and leave. It’s what the left do once the surface is scratched.
When you gather your thoughts and are willing to enter a debate that doesn’t rely on faux declarations of fear and worry and leaves character assumptions at the door then let me know.
Something tells me that may be a pipe dream though. A bit like mass immigration being a wonderful idea I suppose. |
I see you’ve just characterised the entire of the left.
Isn’t that type of behaviour you’re rallying against? | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:14 - Jun 17 with 1145 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 22:06 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Ok thanks.
I’m not seeing anything you describe though? He’s someone who doesn’t agree with the influx of refugees and is annoyed they aren’t being sent out of the country.
A bit of an obnoxious way to put it, and I’m sure he was trying to stir parliament - but hate? Racism?
I don’t see it.
Remember publicly spoken racism is a crime. Imagine going to the police and then taking a transcript of that and reading it out in court as to the charge of racism. As I’m sure you know, if wouldn’t even get to court. There is no evidence of racism there at all. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 22:10]
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He is saying that it doesn’t matter what their claims are, doesn’t care about the individuals just fill the plane. Which is exactly our courts got most of them
removed.
There’s no humanity here, he cares nothing about their plights, modern slavery, torture, dangers of being gay in their country. Just pack the planes and get rid. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:16 - Jun 17 with 1137 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 22:08 - Jun 17 by Gwyn737 |
I see you’ve just characterised the entire of the left.
Isn’t that type of behaviour you’re rallying against? |
Not at all, I will happily be specific if asked.
The left base their views on emotion and feelings. That’s why they have these tactics, because once those are stripped back then there is nowhere for debate to go for them. Facts and logic always trump feelings and emotion in discussion.
So there is a difference between making a logical observation, that I can point to the specifics of and will happily do so… to making sweeping disparaging assertions of peoples character and ethics.
One is a widespread method to avoid debate, the other is an attack on someone’s character.
Massive difference. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 22:27 - Jun 17 with 1118 views | Gwyn737 |
| Evils of hate. on 22:16 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not at all, I will happily be specific if asked.
The left base their views on emotion and feelings. That’s why they have these tactics, because once those are stripped back then there is nowhere for debate to go for them. Facts and logic always trump feelings and emotion in discussion.
So there is a difference between making a logical observation, that I can point to the specifics of and will happily do so… to making sweeping disparaging assertions of peoples character and ethics.
One is a widespread method to avoid debate, the other is an attack on someone’s character.
Massive difference. |
So you’re happy to apply a character flaw to the entire of the left but cry foul if it’s the other way? | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:47 - Jun 17 with 1092 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 22:27 - Jun 17 by Gwyn737 |
So you’re happy to apply a character flaw to the entire of the left but cry foul if it’s the other way? |
What character flaw have I applied to the entire left?
Didn’t I just explain that?
Casting aspersions on someone’s character isn’t describing a debating technique, or a technique to avoid debate rather.
Not sure I can be any clearer than that. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 22:48 - Jun 17 with 1093 views | 73__73 |
Just send them ffs. I’m sure Rwanda could do with more surgeons and top engineers. [Post edited 17 Jun 2022 23:25]
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| Evils of hate. on 22:51 - Jun 17 with 1081 views | Lorax |
| Evils of hate. on 21:30 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
I don’t need to quote, just put his name in YouTube have a look at what he says. This week in parliament I think it was. |
Peter Bone, him that said gays threatened the sanctity of marriage just before he left his wife for a woman 20 years younger.
Peter Bone, the guy who consistently votes against equality measures, specifically LGBT stuff, in Parliament.
I'm not saying I'd agree with all those equality measures but I disagree with his opinion about homosexuals. Why would a gay man threaten my marriage?
What politicians say can stir things up. Many politicians say things that are divisive and stir up hatred. The problem is there are stupid people out there who already hate so a few well chosen words can push those people into saying and doing properly hateful stuff, like the things we saw in the USA in their last election, like with brexit where many hateful things were said after people like Farage spoke out. Politicians choose their words carefully though so they can say they didn't mean what some people thought they meant. By then though, the damage is done. | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 22:52 - Jun 17 with 1077 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Evils of hate. on 22:14 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
He is saying that it doesn’t matter what their claims are, doesn’t care about the individuals just fill the plane. Which is exactly our courts got most of them
removed.
There’s no humanity here, he cares nothing about their plights, modern slavery, torture, dangers of being gay in their country. Just pack the planes and get rid. |
Well then that is an accusation of being ‘uncaring’ - which I wouldn’t disagree with to be honest. I would say that was a fairly accurate description of what you just showed me.
But there is a large leap from being ‘uncaring’… to being racist, hateful and a step away from another Holocaust.
That’s why it’s important that these sweeping and clumsy assertions don’t continue. Because without specifics I was left to fill in the blanks and what I had in my head was very concerning - what you showed me was just a pretty uncaring bloke who doesn’t want an influx of refugees. | |
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| Evils of hate. on 22:56 - Jun 17 with 1073 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Evils of hate. on 22:52 - Jun 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well then that is an accusation of being ‘uncaring’ - which I wouldn’t disagree with to be honest. I would say that was a fairly accurate description of what you just showed me.
But there is a large leap from being ‘uncaring’… to being racist, hateful and a step away from another Holocaust.
That’s why it’s important that these sweeping and clumsy assertions don’t continue. Because without specifics I was left to fill in the blanks and what I had in my head was very concerning - what you showed me was just a pretty uncaring bloke who doesn’t want an influx of refugees. |
Ok, well good discussion. I’m off to sleep. Have a good one | | | |
| Evils of hate. on 07:37 - Jun 18 with 996 views | trampie |
| Evils of hate. on 22:02 - Jun 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Fair point re giving you the link
Hope that works.
Im left of centre. Certainly not a Tory but the extreme left of the Labour worry me too. I respect Rory Stewart, Yvette Cooper, Johnny Mercer eg I all like. |
What extreme left of Labour one might ask as they are nearly all right wing Tories in the Labour party. |  |
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