| The 2024 General Election 14:36 - Oct 10 with 16583 views | johnlangy |
If Labour do win the 2024 General Election they will find themselves in a very strange situation regarding what they are able to achieve, at least in the short term.
People always want big, bold statements regarding huge investments in infrastructure, house building, energy developments to relieve our dependancy on other countries oil/gas and so on.
But I was struck by something Peter Kyle said yesterday. Labour will I’m sure make some major policy announcements but he also said this. Paraphrasing, he said it is shameful but it would be a huge achievement to get to a place where people could get an appointment with their GP, to get their NHS treatment that they’ve been waiting on for X years or to get a dental appointment.
He could have also said it would be an amazing achievement if, when people are mugged or their house is burgled that the police would turn up to investigate.
It’s a dreadful situation for the country to be in that the basic pillars of a civilised society aren’t there any more.
I’ve mentioned health but then there’s education (how many thousands of teachers are needed to fill all the vacancies which means our children’s education is suffering ?). And policing (see above) – the service is 20,000 officers short. No wonder the streets are becoming lawless. Then there’s the Prison Service and the CPS. It is all an utter shambles.
As far as I can see it all of this is down to one thing and that’s the austerity that the Conservatives have imposed on the country since 2010. They cut back massively in all departments in order to ‘bring the countries enormous debt down’. They asked that people accept the need for this pain and go along with it and that there was no other way to achieve the goal.
And after the pain of all that austerity where are we now ? In 2010 the debt was less than £1 trillion. It is now £2.6 trillion.
If they have cut back so enormously on spending, which by extension means that they were also able to cut back on borrowing, could someone explain to me where all this debt has come from ? |  | | |  |
| The 2024 General Election on 00:58 - Oct 14 with 1523 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 2024 General Election on 23:46 - Oct 13 by Badgeman |
She married a Unison official and from that you’ve extrapolated a baseless conspiracy where everything was handed to her. It makes for a nice conspiracy but it’s typical of the sexism women from working class backgrounds face.
Labour candidates for Parliamentary elections are selected by local members within the constituency party, not this fabled selection committee you speak of. Candidates are panelled to ensure they are eligible to stand and the NEC might impose candidates from a shortlist of panelled candidates if there is a snap election but Angela Rayner was elected by local members and stood in a fair contest against other candidates. Also parachuting in refers to dropping candidates into safe seats where they have little to no connection to the area. Rayner is from the area she represents and the seat had less than a 10K majority at the election prior to her selection so there were probably a good 100 or so more seats safer than hers in Parliament.
“Never had a proper job.” State on that comment. Being a care worker for years doesn’t count as having ever had a proper job apparently. |
Suppose it’s also a baseless conspiracy theory that Stephen Kinnock and Hilary Benn (family has been MP’s almost constantly since 1850) didn’t get their seats on their own merit? That the much vaunted and watertight selection process of the local constituency members completely ignored the fact they were the sons of party heavyweights? Jacob Rees mogg is there on his own accord for his own hard work and not because his father was a media mogul. And the entire Johnson family? And all of churchills grandchildren? Ellie and Rachel Reeves? Ed Balls and his wife whose name escapes me? The Hoyles, the Lloyd George’s, the Foots? It’s strange that so many family members end up in such a job. You’d think with a population of 70 million or so and these robust selection processes you speak of the chances of that would be astronomically unlikely?
But it isn’t.
This sort of shit happens all…the…time. |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 10:33 - Oct 14 with 1460 views | onehunglow |
| The 2024 General Election on 00:58 - Oct 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Suppose it’s also a baseless conspiracy theory that Stephen Kinnock and Hilary Benn (family has been MP’s almost constantly since 1850) didn’t get their seats on their own merit? That the much vaunted and watertight selection process of the local constituency members completely ignored the fact they were the sons of party heavyweights? Jacob Rees mogg is there on his own accord for his own hard work and not because his father was a media mogul. And the entire Johnson family? And all of churchills grandchildren? Ellie and Rachel Reeves? Ed Balls and his wife whose name escapes me? The Hoyles, the Lloyd George’s, the Foots? It’s strange that so many family members end up in such a job. You’d think with a population of 70 million or so and these robust selection processes you speak of the chances of that would be astronomically unlikely?
But it isn’t.
This sort of shit happens all…the…time. |
Wow
Brilliant | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 12:32 - Oct 14 with 1414 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 00:58 - Oct 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Suppose it’s also a baseless conspiracy theory that Stephen Kinnock and Hilary Benn (family has been MP’s almost constantly since 1850) didn’t get their seats on their own merit? That the much vaunted and watertight selection process of the local constituency members completely ignored the fact they were the sons of party heavyweights? Jacob Rees mogg is there on his own accord for his own hard work and not because his father was a media mogul. And the entire Johnson family? And all of churchills grandchildren? Ellie and Rachel Reeves? Ed Balls and his wife whose name escapes me? The Hoyles, the Lloyd George’s, the Foots? It’s strange that so many family members end up in such a job. You’d think with a population of 70 million or so and these robust selection processes you speak of the chances of that would be astronomically unlikely?
But it isn’t.
This sort of shit happens all…the…time. |
It’s not just the UK.
The Trudeaus, the Bushes, the Ghandis, Kirchners, to name a few.
Although no doubt it helps, nepotism is just part of it. Children with politically active parents might develop a keen interest in politics too or sometimes continue a political project begun by elders in repressive regimes.
Lots of professions have a family trade, not just politics. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 12:52 - Oct 14 with 1393 views | Whiterockin |
| The 2024 General Election on 12:32 - Oct 14 by Gwyn737 |
It’s not just the UK.
The Trudeaus, the Bushes, the Ghandis, Kirchners, to name a few.
Although no doubt it helps, nepotism is just part of it. Children with politically active parents might develop a keen interest in politics too or sometimes continue a political project begun by elders in repressive regimes.
Lots of professions have a family trade, not just politics. |
It doesn't matter what you do, if you have family or friends "in the business" it opens doors. Politics is no different. |  | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 13:36 - Oct 14 with 1354 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 00:58 - Oct 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Suppose it’s also a baseless conspiracy theory that Stephen Kinnock and Hilary Benn (family has been MP’s almost constantly since 1850) didn’t get their seats on their own merit? That the much vaunted and watertight selection process of the local constituency members completely ignored the fact they were the sons of party heavyweights? Jacob Rees mogg is there on his own accord for his own hard work and not because his father was a media mogul. And the entire Johnson family? And all of churchills grandchildren? Ellie and Rachel Reeves? Ed Balls and his wife whose name escapes me? The Hoyles, the Lloyd George’s, the Foots? It’s strange that so many family members end up in such a job. You’d think with a population of 70 million or so and these robust selection processes you speak of the chances of that would be astronomically unlikely?
But it isn’t.
This sort of shit happens all…the…time. |
You said most of our politicians are there because of nepotism which is nonsense. Plenty of politicians benefit from family connections like your Benns, Moggs and Kinnocks but they don’t make up the bulk of our politicians. This is all still completely irrelevant to your embarrassingly incorrect theory on Angela Rayners selection as a Labour candidate.
Not surprised you’ve run away from your reprehensible comment about care workers. Real mask off moment that. You’ll be going on ignore from now on as I don’t want to converse with people who treat hard working care staff with open contempt. |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:09 - Oct 14 with 1326 views | onehunglow |
| The 2024 General Election on 13:36 - Oct 14 by Badgeman |
You said most of our politicians are there because of nepotism which is nonsense. Plenty of politicians benefit from family connections like your Benns, Moggs and Kinnocks but they don’t make up the bulk of our politicians. This is all still completely irrelevant to your embarrassingly incorrect theory on Angela Rayners selection as a Labour candidate.
Not surprised you’ve run away from your reprehensible comment about care workers. Real mask off moment that. You’ll be going on ignore from now on as I don’t want to converse with people who treat hard working care staff with open contempt. |
You’re not unlike our Lord are you.
Putting others before yourself and pining and praying for the downtrodden
It’s great posting in a way | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 15:35 - Oct 14 with 1295 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 2024 General Election on 12:52 - Oct 14 by Whiterockin |
It doesn't matter what you do, if you have family or friends "in the business" it opens doors. Politics is no different. |
Of course. You’d either have to be remarkably naive or a complete idiot to believe otherwise. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 15:36 - Oct 14 with 1286 views | Whiterockin |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:35 - Oct 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Of course. You’d either have to be remarkably naive or a complete idiot to believe otherwise. |
Or have an agenda.  | | | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 17:00 - Oct 14 with 1259 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 20:33 - Oct 13 by Badgeman |
What test? There’s no need to be rude to me because I’m not an expert on your life and post history. What a disagreeable and needlessly salty reply. |
Hang on, where was I rude? Did I call you any names or make any false assumptions about you, all I did was point out you are way off the mark.
Your comment about not being an expert on my life is very telling, maybe you shouldn't judge someone you know nothing about. lets face it, you judgement of me as middle aged, middle class was meant as an insult of a kind and all because I posted an opinion of a labour MP.
When you make false assumptions expect them to be challenged and if you can't stand to be challenged maybe don't post as you have?
Salty, where was I coarse then?
The test,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_5093/index.stm | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:06 - Oct 14 with 1257 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:00 - Oct 14 by SullutaCreturned |
Hang on, where was I rude? Did I call you any names or make any false assumptions about you, all I did was point out you are way off the mark.
Your comment about not being an expert on my life is very telling, maybe you shouldn't judge someone you know nothing about. lets face it, you judgement of me as middle aged, middle class was meant as an insult of a kind and all because I posted an opinion of a labour MP.
When you make false assumptions expect them to be challenged and if you can't stand to be challenged maybe don't post as you have?
Salty, where was I coarse then?
The test,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_5093/index.stm |
I’m established middle class apparently. Just need to marry someone powerful and I reckon I could be elite by Christmas! | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 17:37 - Oct 14 with 1248 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:06 - Oct 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
I’m established middle class apparently. Just need to marry someone powerful and I reckon I could be elite by Christmas! |
As with all class judgements/tests, it's complete bolleaux.
I did the test again and one small change, one different click made me established middle class also.
Generally speaking I only see class as people who work to survive, then there's rich people and Royalty. The old class definitions are well out of date now. There is of course another class, what some call the underclass, those who refuse to work and live off benefits and/or crime.
For myself and my family, we work to survive. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 09:58 - Oct 15 with 1141 views | trampie |
I'm Technical middle class according to that.  |  |
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| The 2024 General Election on 10:24 - Oct 15 with 1134 views | onehunglow |
| The 2024 General Election on 17:37 - Oct 14 by SullutaCreturned |
As with all class judgements/tests, it's complete bolleaux.
I did the test again and one small change, one different click made me established middle class also.
Generally speaking I only see class as people who work to survive, then there's rich people and Royalty. The old class definitions are well out of date now. There is of course another class, what some call the underclass, those who refuse to work and live off benefits and/or crime.
For myself and my family, we work to survive. |
Nobody classifies me without being head butted full in the nose ( metaphorically naturally) | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 11:27 - Oct 15 with 1104 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 10:24 - Oct 15 by onehunglow |
Nobody classifies me without being head butted full in the nose ( metaphorically naturally) |
People can classify me all they want but if/when they are wrong I will tell them.
On that, come on BADGEMAN, tell me which part of my post was rude and salty?
Show me where I was ruder to you than you have been to me?
Otherwise I'll have to take your reaction as a sign you feel a tad silly and needed to get defensive, maybe even an excuse to put me on ignore.
Thats the thing with us working class people see, a bit of straight talking and occassional saltiness are to be expected
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| The 2024 General Election on 11:45 - Oct 15 with 1076 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 11:27 - Oct 15 by SullutaCreturned |
People can classify me all they want but if/when they are wrong I will tell them.
On that, come on BADGEMAN, tell me which part of my post was rude and salty?
Show me where I was ruder to you than you have been to me?
Otherwise I'll have to take your reaction as a sign you feel a tad silly and needed to get defensive, maybe even an excuse to put me on ignore.
Thats the thing with us working class people see, a bit of straight talking and occassional saltiness are to be expected
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The bits where you derided me for not being a mind reader were bafflingly rude. Like did you really expect me to know who you’ve voted for previously lol. You took that way too seriously and tried to make it a point of contention in quite a pathetic and needlessly confrontational way.
Where have I been rude to you? | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:24 - Oct 15 with 1048 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 2024 General Election on 11:45 - Oct 15 by Badgeman |
The bits where you derided me for not being a mind reader were bafflingly rude. Like did you really expect me to know who you’ve voted for previously lol. You took that way too seriously and tried to make it a point of contention in quite a pathetic and needlessly confrontational way.
Where have I been rude to you? |
If saying "another wrong assumption by you" is bafflingly rude then you really need to take a look at yourself. Pointing out you are wrong is only rude if you're one of those fabled snowflakes.
And claiming I took it too seriously...really? I didn't expect you to know who I voted for but your suggestion about me being middle aged, middle class was a poor attempt to label me tory. It was a leading question, meant to lead you to the realisation that you were wrong.
Yor last line, yes that was the point, I hadn't been rude to you. I read my post again just to be sure and nowhere did I deride you, call you names or insult you.
Once more for you, when you make a wrong assumption and use it as a half hearted attempt at an insult, epect to be challenged. If you can't stand being put right then don't post such nonsense.
PS, it has been you who has been confrontational by making passive aggresive attacks on people who say things about Labour. Labour are slightly less useless than the tories all through my 56 years and we'll see how Starmer does when he (inevitably in my opinion) wins the GE. Welsh labour have been useless to the point of absurdity and it doesn't help Starmer. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 14:22 - Oct 16 with 966 views | onehunglow |
Wrong board ,son.
Virtue and Good Literature [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 14:25]
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| The 2024 General Election on 15:50 - Oct 16 with 932 views | Gwyn737 |
Anyway...
Both big party conferences are now over.
Labour continue to be cautious what the Conservatives try to pretend that they havent been in power for the last thirteen years.
What I'd like to know is why would anyone now vote Tory, apart form just saying just because their not Labour?
What is it in the last thirteen years of power has been made better? | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:22 - Oct 16 with 918 views | Boundy |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:50 - Oct 16 by Gwyn737 |
Anyway...
Both big party conferences are now over.
Labour continue to be cautious what the Conservatives try to pretend that they havent been in power for the last thirteen years.
What I'd like to know is why would anyone now vote Tory, apart form just saying just because their not Labour?
What is it in the last thirteen years of power has been made better? |
Regarding the betterment of society,what government has ever left the country in a better state after their term(s) in office .This like many others have run out of ideas ,money ,and desire to improve the lot of the majority. When you consider how long we in Wales have been led by a Labour majority then how the hell does anyone think it'll improve under the same regime | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 2024 General Election on 16:30 - Oct 16 with 905 views | Whiterockin |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:50 - Oct 16 by Gwyn737 |
Anyway...
Both big party conferences are now over.
Labour continue to be cautious what the Conservatives try to pretend that they havent been in power for the last thirteen years.
What I'd like to know is why would anyone now vote Tory, apart form just saying just because their not Labour?
What is it in the last thirteen years of power has been made better? |
Why would anyone vote tory.
Quite possibly not in a GE. But entirely possible in a Senedd election depending on the other candidates. Labour nationally is nothing like Labour Wales, well I sincerely hope not. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:31 - Oct 16 with 899 views | Gwyn737 |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:22 - Oct 16 by Boundy |
Regarding the betterment of society,what government has ever left the country in a better state after their term(s) in office .This like many others have run out of ideas ,money ,and desire to improve the lot of the majority. When you consider how long we in Wales have been led by a Labour majority then how the hell does anyone think it'll improve under the same regime |
I appreciate the point about the end of a term.
I'll take anything over the past 13 years.
In fact, discount the war in Ukraine and Covid. Anything in the previous 9 years. | | | |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:33 - Oct 16 with 895 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 14:24 - Oct 15 by SullutaCreturned |
If saying "another wrong assumption by you" is bafflingly rude then you really need to take a look at yourself. Pointing out you are wrong is only rude if you're one of those fabled snowflakes.
And claiming I took it too seriously...really? I didn't expect you to know who I voted for but your suggestion about me being middle aged, middle class was a poor attempt to label me tory. It was a leading question, meant to lead you to the realisation that you were wrong.
Yor last line, yes that was the point, I hadn't been rude to you. I read my post again just to be sure and nowhere did I deride you, call you names or insult you.
Once more for you, when you make a wrong assumption and use it as a half hearted attempt at an insult, epect to be challenged. If you can't stand being put right then don't post such nonsense.
PS, it has been you who has been confrontational by making passive aggresive attacks on people who say things about Labour. Labour are slightly less useless than the tories all through my 56 years and we'll see how Starmer does when he (inevitably in my opinion) wins the GE. Welsh labour have been useless to the point of absurdity and it doesn't help Starmer. |
I found you abrupt, rude and dismissive when I didn’t think it was warranted. I’m over it.
If I thought you were a Tory I would’ve called you a Tory like I do to all of the other transparently Tory posters. I said I suspect you’ve voted Tory in the past which is different.
I wasn’t trying to insult you with my half baked assumptions and that’s the honest truth. If I want to insult you I’ll do it directly. For what it’s worth I think you’re much more interesting and rounded as a poster than most on here.
I’ve made no attempt to hide my affiliation and have chirped up when I think Labour are getting an unfair hearing or are being misrepresented. I don’t blindly defend everything my side do unlike the Tories on this board. I was heavily critical of Corbyn for years, and call out the Welsh government when I think they’ve made mistakes like on how they’ve handled Senedd reform or the 20mph rollout. I have a lot of respect for Drakeford but he would be doing everyone a favour if he bowed out now and let someone else take over or Welsh Labour will be in serious trouble by the next election. I think Starmer is one of the most boring men in Parliament but I’ll take that every day compared to the binfire premierships of Johnson and Truss, and the smugly condescending yet laughably weak Sunak. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:04 - Oct 17 with 829 views | onehunglow |
| The 2024 General Election on 16:30 - Oct 16 by Whiterockin |
Why would anyone vote tory.
Quite possibly not in a GE. But entirely possible in a Senedd election depending on the other candidates. Labour nationally is nothing like Labour Wales, well I sincerely hope not. |
Why?
Just some thoughts…
1. Mistrust of Unions and their power
2. Mistrust of bloated nationalised companies with inept central government
3.Social milieu. If living in a green and pleasant region where live comfortably ,tendency to be defensive .
4. The previous corrosive history of Labour in the 60s and 70s.
5. Perception conservatives are the party of law and order.
Number 5 is actually hard to type as it’s so farming wrong . | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:10 - Oct 17 with 826 views | Badgeman |
| The 2024 General Election on 14:04 - Oct 17 by onehunglow |
Why?
Just some thoughts…
1. Mistrust of Unions and their power
2. Mistrust of bloated nationalised companies with inept central government
3.Social milieu. If living in a green and pleasant region where live comfortably ,tendency to be defensive .
4. The previous corrosive history of Labour in the 60s and 70s.
5. Perception conservatives are the party of law and order.
Number 5 is actually hard to type as it’s so farming wrong . |
5 completely nonsense reasons then. You vote tory because you were a copper during the miners strike and thatcher looked after you while you liberally used the baton against your own. | |
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| The 2024 General Election on 14:15 - Oct 17 with 816 views | Scotia |
| The 2024 General Election on 15:50 - Oct 16 by Gwyn737 |
Anyway...
Both big party conferences are now over.
Labour continue to be cautious what the Conservatives try to pretend that they havent been in power for the last thirteen years.
What I'd like to know is why would anyone now vote Tory, apart form just saying just because their not Labour?
What is it in the last thirteen years of power has been made better? |
Why would anyone vote Tory?
Stop the boats init. That will solve all of our problems. | | | |
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