| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? 20:20 - Dec 18 with 5838 views | SwansIndependent |
 Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? 18th Dec 2023 20:16Swansea City as a football club has been carefully stripped of its best assets over the past five years. The prime example the sale of Joel Piroe this summer, and then the money in for Olivier Ntcham and Joel Latibeaudiere, which massively increased the coffers. We are not going to go in to exact figures but suffice to say another big profit on sales and incomings was made.  6
That’s a fair few quid, click above.
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 10:00 - Dec 19 with 1198 views | EagleEye |
Came across this, nothing has changed since some analysis was carried out when Jenkins left. It appears that lessons have most definitely not be learnt
https://priceoffootball.com/swansea-city-soul-train/
According to transfermarkt, since the club’s relegation from the Premier League in 2017/18, £108m (€122.5m) has been made through player sales while just £15.8m (€17.8m) has been invested back into the squad.
Kaplan and Levien’s motives for running the club are mysterious. They appear to want Swansea to be self-financing, which is understandable to a degree, but having spent £100 million buying the club in 2016 it is difficult to see how they will get their money back as the club is likely to be valued at half that sum or less outside of the Premier League.
It’s probable that their aim was to generate some income from dividend payments from the club whilst it was in the Premier League or alternatively flip the club and sell it on to another ‘investor’ with the moral compass of an alleycat for a handsome profit, but neither has materialised to date.
The Championship is a bear pit of a division, with clubs averaging trading losses of £330,000 a week, which have to be funded somehow. Player sales can only assist here for a limited time as ultimately the pool of players who can be sold at a profit diminishes as wage levels fall.
Huw Jenkins’ cryptic comments and the silence from the owners suggests that finance-based arguments led to his resignation and fans are no doubt fully aware of the profit that Jenkins made when selling his stake in the club in 2016 (and the £4 million of dividends paid to shareholders prior to that).
Good governance for any business requires transparency and honest communication and these both appear to be in short supply in SA1 at present. |  | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 12:16 - Dec 19 with 1123 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 21:50 - Dec 18 by KeithHaynes |
This is a feature on profit made over the past five years. It can only be judged as a measure as to the clubs business acumen over that time regards spending money that player sales and parachute money gave them. It also includes player sales.
£80,000,000 profit in one season with Cooper, what happened there ? |
it's rare if ever I agree with Resolven but this article is misleading the profit discussed is that purely on player transfers...the numbers take in ni considering if operating costs and bear nothing in anyway near the figures at Conoanies House.
I'm not using thus ti defend the owners but use and present data properly | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 14:25 - Dec 19 with 1036 views | majorraglan |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 12:16 - Dec 19 by vetchonian |
it's rare if ever I agree with Resolven but this article is misleading the profit discussed is that purely on player transfers...the numbers take in ni considering if operating costs and bear nothing in anyway near the figures at Conoanies House.
I'm not using thus ti defend the owners but use and present data properly |
The points you've raised are valid, but I suspect given the surpluses that are being detailed in the article its prompting people to think about how the club is being run and ask questions in relation what exactly are the outgoings? How have the funds been spent? Has the money been spent on player wages, consultancy fees paid to the owners etc etc? If so how much?
Do the club provide a breakdown of operating costs etc or is it all shrouded in mystery? I may be wrong, but I don’t believe dividends have been paid out, so how is the cash being spent? One way of taking money out of a company without paying shareholders a dividend is by paying out fees etc.
I’m not saying the above is happening, but I believe the article is prompting people to think about things. | | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:18 - Dec 19 with 923 views | Treforys_Jack |
I tend to agree with resolvens post as well. If they are siphoning money out of the club, it should be easy to prove. Poor decisions are different to asset stripping. |  | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:47 - Dec 19 with 894 views | KeithHaynes |
The whole article is about mismanagement, where people get HMRC issues and whatever Resloven is on about I don’t know. |  |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:50 - Dec 19 with 883 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 23:21 - Dec 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Your writer has not even bothered to look at costs.
a) Monthly deficits income v out goings
b) Covid losses no crowds for much of that season
c) Wages of Ayew / Bony / Fer etc
d) Transfers losses on Borja Bony Ayew
e) Work on the stadium
f) Increased fuel / costs Insurances (that we all have noticed
g) £4m written off in transfer losses under Potter.
h) The academy
i) The new women's team ( no one wanted this and no one has objected either.)
j) Discounted season tickets
k) Twenty is plenty schemes
What have been the monthly deficits excluding plyer trading oe the last five and half seasons. £1m per month £2m per month?
Poor article and a one eyed hatchet job. [Post edited 18 Dec 2023 23:23]
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It’s about financial incomings weighed against outgoings.
If you want a book on it I doubt he had the time. It’s a specific topic in isolation informing fans of the excess money. Not a competition to analyse the whole club and everything associated to it. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:52 - Dec 19 with 868 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 12:16 - Dec 19 by vetchonian |
it's rare if ever I agree with Resolven but this article is misleading the profit discussed is that purely on player transfers...the numbers take in ni considering if operating costs and bear nothing in anyway near the figures at Conoanies House.
I'm not using thus ti defend the owners but use and present data properly |
The data is presented properly, it refers to incoming and outgoings leaving the reader to judge where the money has gone based on the people who are running the club and their history. Companies house figures have nothing to do with it.
It’s a balance of money made over five years and asking the question has it been managed properly. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:52 - Dec 19 with 865 views | EagleEye |
The huge difference between transfer monies in & transfer monies out speaks for itself.Nothing has to be proved this is not a court case. What is clear is that there is gross mismanagement of club finances & football operations going on by so called professional businessmen. Incompetence on a massive scale across the board | | | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:53 - Dec 19 with 857 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 14:25 - Dec 19 by majorraglan |
The points you've raised are valid, but I suspect given the surpluses that are being detailed in the article its prompting people to think about how the club is being run and ask questions in relation what exactly are the outgoings? How have the funds been spent? Has the money been spent on player wages, consultancy fees paid to the owners etc etc? If so how much?
Do the club provide a breakdown of operating costs etc or is it all shrouded in mystery? I may be wrong, but I don’t believe dividends have been paid out, so how is the cash being spent? One way of taking money out of a company without paying shareholders a dividend is by paying out fees etc.
I’m not saying the above is happening, but I believe the article is prompting people to think about things. |
I’ve warned you before about talking sense 😉 | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:12 - Dec 19 with 823 views | swan_si |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:52 - Dec 19 by KeithHaynes |
The data is presented properly, it refers to incoming and outgoings leaving the reader to judge where the money has gone based on the people who are running the club and their history. Companies house figures have nothing to do with it.
It’s a balance of money made over five years and asking the question has it been managed properly. |
The article states " what they are really doing is hoovering up as much money as they can. Right under your noses." Is this factual, or opinion?
You stated above, " leaving the reader to judge where the money has gone" but the article is already suggesting it's being hoovered up, whatever that means. |  | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:37 - Dec 19 with 786 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:12 - Dec 19 by swan_si |
The article states " what they are really doing is hoovering up as much money as they can. Right under your noses." Is this factual, or opinion?
You stated above, " leaving the reader to judge where the money has gone" but the article is already suggesting it's being hoovered up, whatever that means. |
Make your own mind up. Send a DM to the website on Twitter. If you can’t see any mismanagement in those clear figures maybe it’s best if people blindly keep shouting Johnny Hollins Barmy Army as the ship sails in to oblivion.
What you see is clearly not what everyone else sees or understands. That’s the way of the world.
Clear your throat. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:57 - Dec 19 with 747 views | swan_si |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:37 - Dec 19 by KeithHaynes |
Make your own mind up. Send a DM to the website on Twitter. If you can’t see any mismanagement in those clear figures maybe it’s best if people blindly keep shouting Johnny Hollins Barmy Army as the ship sails in to oblivion.
What you see is clearly not what everyone else sees or understands. That’s the way of the world.
Clear your throat. |
"Everyone " really? What i see is half a story, and I'm not going to speculate on something I, like most if not everyone, know nothing about, rumours and hearsay mean nothing, and opinions are just opinions.🤷♂️ | | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:30 - Dec 19 with 711 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 17:57 - Dec 19 by swan_si |
"Everyone " really? What i see is half a story, and I'm not going to speculate on something I, like most if not everyone, know nothing about, rumours and hearsay mean nothing, and opinions are just opinions.🤷♂️ |
totally agree,the article is misleading as I said earlier the profit is that from player sales v player purchases for that season,
Where are the operating costs,ticket revenue is at best £8m per year and that's a bit over exaggerated...
whilst the owners are making a fist of things in terms of football matters and they have made a few financial mistakes with player choices,etc mainly their fiscal management had been good.
Others with much better accounting knowledge than myself have discussed this topic over the years across most of the forums.
Yes the money from the sale of Siggi and Llorente was wasted on substandard purchases but no way are the Yanks hoovering money quite the reverse they have had to put monies on to stem losses.
How much do people think its costs to run a Championship club,with the training set up and academy set up we have,the number of staff and players wages bills?
Policing costs,travel costs. that all comes to more than the circa £84M the article hints was available to get us back up to the PL | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:36 - Dec 19 with 702 views | Treforys_Jack |
Bloody hell, I'm agreeing with Vetchy and Resolven on the same thread. I'm going for a lay down. | | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:36 - Dec 19 with 702 views | swan_si |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:30 - Dec 19 by vetchonian |
totally agree,the article is misleading as I said earlier the profit is that from player sales v player purchases for that season,
Where are the operating costs,ticket revenue is at best £8m per year and that's a bit over exaggerated...
whilst the owners are making a fist of things in terms of football matters and they have made a few financial mistakes with player choices,etc mainly their fiscal management had been good.
Others with much better accounting knowledge than myself have discussed this topic over the years across most of the forums.
Yes the money from the sale of Siggi and Llorente was wasted on substandard purchases but no way are the Yanks hoovering money quite the reverse they have had to put monies on to stem losses.
How much do people think its costs to run a Championship club,with the training set up and academy set up we have,the number of staff and players wages bills?
Policing costs,travel costs. that all comes to more than the circa £84M the article hints was available to get us back up to the PL |
Have you been warned about talking sense.😉 [Post edited 19 Dec 2023 18:37]
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:42 - Dec 19 with 690 views | Treforys_Jack |
Poor signings/appointments are completely different to asset stripping or basically stealing from the club as some are suggesting.
The previous owners wanted out, where would we be without the current owners, seriously ?
They are far from perfect but we could have had far far worse. | | | |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:48 - Dec 19 with 683 views | Chippy69 |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:42 - Dec 19 by Treforys_Jack |
Poor signings/appointments are completely different to asset stripping or basically stealing from the club as some are suggesting.
The previous owners wanted out, where would we be without the current owners, seriously ?
They are far from perfect but we could have had far far worse. |
Or maybe just maybe a little bit better |  |
| They make us feel indebted
For saving us from hell
And then they put us through it
It's time the bastards fell
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:18 - Dec 19 with 634 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 18:48 - Dec 19 by Chippy69 |
Or maybe just maybe a little bit better |
But there werent any....the sell outs sold as soon as they could ,the writing was on the wall on how they went about dealing with the Trust BUT they are keeping the club afloat we havent (yet) plummeted down the leagues as we did back in the 80s.
Where we currently are is not the same when Mel Nurse rode in and paved the way for HJ et al to rescue us from the clutches of Petty it will take a lot more than £1 and buying a debt and Im not sure there are locals or persons with the right interests of the club around to do so either.
Sometimes its better the "devil you know" | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:28 - Dec 19 with 604 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:18 - Dec 19 by vetchonian |
But there werent any....the sell outs sold as soon as they could ,the writing was on the wall on how they went about dealing with the Trust BUT they are keeping the club afloat we havent (yet) plummeted down the leagues as we did back in the 80s.
Where we currently are is not the same when Mel Nurse rode in and paved the way for HJ et al to rescue us from the clutches of Petty it will take a lot more than £1 and buying a debt and Im not sure there are locals or persons with the right interests of the club around to do so either.
Sometimes its better the "devil you know" |
Mel wasn’t the main driver in that. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:32 - Dec 19 with 603 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:47 - Dec 19 by KeithHaynes |
The whole article is about mismanagement, where people get HMRC issues and whatever Resloven is on about I don’t know. |
Because the article talks about profit but is the "profit" from player trading , its decides to omit the costs of running the club, and selling "key assets" in the form of "star players" has been part of our fiscal survival plan prior to the current ownership model.
I think most of us would agree there has been mismanagement in the "reinvestment" of monies into player replacement/accquisition and lets not forget for the first season after relegation the illustrious HJ was running player recruitment. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:41 - Dec 19 with 573 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:32 - Dec 19 by vetchonian |
Because the article talks about profit but is the "profit" from player trading , its decides to omit the costs of running the club, and selling "key assets" in the form of "star players" has been part of our fiscal survival plan prior to the current ownership model.
I think most of us would agree there has been mismanagement in the "reinvestment" of monies into player replacement/accquisition and lets not forget for the first season after relegation the illustrious HJ was running player recruitment. |
These individual examples build the blocks that overall display complete incompetence over five years. We could easily build a case to remove them right away. But as long as people remain happy with the status quo, then they will continue to rock all over the world. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:51 - Dec 19 with 548 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 16:52 - Dec 19 by KeithHaynes |
The data is presented properly, it refers to incoming and outgoings leaving the reader to judge where the money has gone based on the people who are running the club and their history. Companies house figures have nothing to do with it.
It’s a balance of money made over five years and asking the question has it been managed properly. |
Again Keith that is not true profit as I have said elsewhere player trading has always been part of our fiscal model and the "profit" discussed is what in a manufacturing business would be classed as gross profit then there are the operational costs below that and the article discounts those, it suggests that in the 2019/20 season there was £82M pounds to get us promoted ignoring the fact that a lot of those funds would have been swallowed up in running the club.
I dont disagree there has been some mismanagement in plyer trading but the article is skewed in its presentation, I have read it several times it focuses on the "proifits" generated form player sales and yes does highlight the poor and relatively lower reinvestment but as in all businesses the monies for "investment" in assets generally is funded by surplus generated from overal profit and lending. | |
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:53 - Dec 19 with 543 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:28 - Dec 19 by KeithHaynes |
Mel wasn’t the main driver in that. |
If he hadnt bought the debt then the process might not have been possible!
https://planetswans.co.uk/2001/11/13/nurse-v-petty/
[Post edited 19 Dec 2023 19:56]
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| Swansea City : Is there an answer to any of this ? 💲? on 19:56 - Dec 19 with 532 views | KeithHaynes |
I thought he bought the car park for 50k.
Now yes, I’m having a bit of a laugh, I just wish more people were involved to bring to the attention of everyone from 1997 how corrupt the whole club was. It took three years hard work. | |
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