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The Welsh Brain Drain 12:19 - Dec 29 with 2469 viewsSullutaCreturned

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/truth-welsh-brain-drain-told-28318

As has been said many times on here, young people are leaving Wales because there is very little opportunity for them. The Welsh population is the slowest growing in the UK and much of that is the retirees moving here with their nice private pensions having sold bg expensive houses elsewhere which means Wales is indeed turning into an English retirement home.

This is because of the Senedd so in basic terms those who hope for an indy Wales are peeing into the wind because as th years pass the number of Welsh in Wales is falling and the English number is increasing.

Kilkenny thinks the young will take us out of the Uk but how can they when they will have taken themselves out of Wales? Those elderly English people are also more likley to be Tory voters so one day, if we have a decent Tory party (right now the idea is laughable) Wales may vote Tory.

Even the Plaid leader is calling out Labour on this,

In response Plaid Cymru’s leader Rhun ap Iorwerth MS called on the Welsh Government to develop a new strategy to tackle depopulation in Welsh communities. The Member of the Senedd for Ynys Môn said “tai, gwaith, iaith” – meaning "homes, jobs, and language" in English – were the cornerstones of “vibrant and resilient communities”.

Although with the numbers of fluent Welsh speakers still falling despite all that's being done it's hard to see how "iath" is so important, surely homes and jobs are what is really important? being a homeless, unemployed Welsh speaker is hardly good.
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 23:02 - Dec 30 with 772 viewsDr_Winston

The Welsh Brain Drain on 22:56 - Dec 30 by builthjack

Our farmers did very very very well with EU payments.


Again, as a net contributor to EU funds it was only British taxpayer funds being returned to us minus a significant deduction.

Just like the "free" bus travel that Swansea Council so often trumpet, it's not free if you pay for it via taxes.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 23:16 - Dec 30 with 755 viewsBoundy

The Welsh Brain Drain on 22:56 - Dec 30 by builthjack

Our farmers did very very very well with EU payments.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 11:14 - Dec 31 with 691 viewscontroversial_jack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 23:16 - Dec 30 by Boundy

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/


Are we seeing the money saved being used for the good of the country?
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 11:30 - Dec 31 with 681 viewsSullutaCreturned

The Welsh Brain Drain on 22:31 - Dec 30 by Kilkennyjack

Welsh nationalism is a modern civic nationalism, not an old fashioned ethnic nationalism.
As a bright man you should know this.
Others will chose not to understand.

I never said you attacked Wales.
I never calked you a moaner.
You just invented both.

Wales was only ever entitled to EU structural funding bevause London rule created that shocking outcome.

London rules never puts Wales needs first and our structural poverty is a direct result of this failure.


You can val it civic nationalism all you like but when people who don't speak Welsh and/or complain about the Senedd are vilified it clearly shows the divide, non Welsh residents of Wales are British and will most likely vote to retain the Union. That is their civic natinality you see.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding, that part wasn't aimed at you.

EU structural funding was part of the game plan to have people loving the EU. Yet even a major benefactorof "EU" funds, ROI, has had enough of some of the things that come with EU membership, like unlimited immigration and the ROI aren't alone in that.

London ruke never puts Wales first yet Cardiff rule only puts cardiff first, both governments are utterly useless and change is needed.

Again not aimed directly at you, Kilky but if people who moan about the Senedd should consider leaving Wales what should people who moan about Westminster do?
Welsh structural poverty isn't just because of Westminster either, it has as much to do with the Senedd spebnding money where it isn't essential, wasting it on pet projects whilstthe majority of Wales stagnates.
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 14:43 - Jan 3 with 601 viewsKilkennyjack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 11:30 - Dec 31 by SullutaCreturned

You can val it civic nationalism all you like but when people who don't speak Welsh and/or complain about the Senedd are vilified it clearly shows the divide, non Welsh residents of Wales are British and will most likely vote to retain the Union. That is their civic natinality you see.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding, that part wasn't aimed at you.

EU structural funding was part of the game plan to have people loving the EU. Yet even a major benefactorof "EU" funds, ROI, has had enough of some of the things that come with EU membership, like unlimited immigration and the ROI aren't alone in that.

London ruke never puts Wales first yet Cardiff rule only puts cardiff first, both governments are utterly useless and change is needed.

Again not aimed directly at you, Kilky but if people who moan about the Senedd should consider leaving Wales what should people who moan about Westminster do?
Welsh structural poverty isn't just because of Westminster either, it has as much to do with the Senedd spebnding money where it isn't essential, wasting it on pet projects whilstthe majority of Wales stagnates.


The aim of EU structural funding was more profound than getting people ‘to love the EU’, you must know that ?

Primarily its a fairness issue, give people in the less wealthy areas/regions a better future.
But the additional benefit is that once economic improvements flow then you have created a new market to sell into. Its a virtuous circle.

Meanwhile the inequality created under London rule will now be perpetuated by post Brexit London rule. Simply not interested in Wales.

Annibyniaeth.

Beware of the Risen People

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 16:23 - Jan 3 with 568 viewsbuilthjack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 23:02 - Dec 30 by Dr_Winston

Again, as a net contributor to EU funds it was only British taxpayer funds being returned to us minus a significant deduction.

Just like the "free" bus travel that Swansea Council so often trumpet, it's not free if you pay for it via taxes.


Our farmers did exceptionally well from the EU

Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 17:19 - Jan 3 with 549 viewsKilkennyjack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 22:43 - Dec 30 by Dr_Winston

Nothing in the UK was ever, EVER funded by the EU.

It was our own money given back to us, minus a heavy subsidy for French farmers, or Irish tax allowances.


Please try to understand the following ….

Wales was poor due to London rule, embarrassing mun.
London had ignored Wales for decades.
The nice European people had funds for poor areas/regions/nations.
Wales qualified for investment.

Without the nice European people then Wales got feck all.

Thats the story.

Beware of the Risen People

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 17:39 - Jan 3 with 545 viewsSullutaCreturned

The Welsh Brain Drain on 14:43 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack

The aim of EU structural funding was more profound than getting people ‘to love the EU’, you must know that ?

Primarily its a fairness issue, give people in the less wealthy areas/regions a better future.
But the additional benefit is that once economic improvements flow then you have created a new market to sell into. Its a virtuous circle.

Meanwhile the inequality created under London rule will now be perpetuated by post Brexit London rule. Simply not interested in Wales.

Annibyniaeth.


No, it wasn't. The Eu only gave money if there was match funding. Also, they insisted that any project that got "EU" money had to fly their flag above it which had the intention of having people think the EU had paid for it when at nest they had paid for half.

These economic improvements, where and what did we gain? Did Wales make any great economic gains from EU structural spending? No we didn't because we have been governed by a bunch of tin pot, third rate politicians who couldn't make it to Westminster and given the quality at Westminster that really does make them bad.

Between 2014-2020 Wales got 780 Euros per head while in 2020 alone Wales got over 10,000 pounds per head from Westminster. You put so much faith in the EU money but it's literally a drop in the ocean compared to what we get from London, how can it possibly have made any great difference?
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 18:57 - Jan 3 with 518 viewsDr_Winston

The Welsh Brain Drain on 17:39 - Jan 3 by SullutaCreturned

No, it wasn't. The Eu only gave money if there was match funding. Also, they insisted that any project that got "EU" money had to fly their flag above it which had the intention of having people think the EU had paid for it when at nest they had paid for half.

These economic improvements, where and what did we gain? Did Wales make any great economic gains from EU structural spending? No we didn't because we have been governed by a bunch of tin pot, third rate politicians who couldn't make it to Westminster and given the quality at Westminster that really does make them bad.

Between 2014-2020 Wales got 780 Euros per head while in 2020 alone Wales got over 10,000 pounds per head from Westminster. You put so much faith in the EU money but it's literally a drop in the ocean compared to what we get from London, how can it possibly have made any great difference?


As a net contributor to the EU budget, mot a single penny of any project in the UK was ever paid for with EU money. It was our own money given back to it, minus a tithe for the piggies in Brussels.

Slapping an EU flag on it was a bare faced lie.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:25 - Jan 3 with 502 viewsKilkennyjack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 18:57 - Jan 3 by Dr_Winston

As a net contributor to the EU budget, mot a single penny of any project in the UK was ever paid for with EU money. It was our own money given back to it, minus a tithe for the piggies in Brussels.

Slapping an EU flag on it was a bare faced lie.


When London decided Wales got no money.
But Wales got poor.

Under the EU then poor Wales got money.
Appropriately approved Welsh projects actually happened.

So ….. its no money with UK vs money with EU.

London had its chance and blew it.
And they dont even care.

The EU got extra funds to Wales. Winners.

Beware of the Risen People

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:27 - Jan 3 with 501 viewsDr_Winston

Wales got plenty of money.

Unfortunately, thanks to the Senedd, now only Cardiff does.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:27 - Jan 3 with 499 viewsKilkennyjack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 17:39 - Jan 3 by SullutaCreturned

No, it wasn't. The Eu only gave money if there was match funding. Also, they insisted that any project that got "EU" money had to fly their flag above it which had the intention of having people think the EU had paid for it when at nest they had paid for half.

These economic improvements, where and what did we gain? Did Wales make any great economic gains from EU structural spending? No we didn't because we have been governed by a bunch of tin pot, third rate politicians who couldn't make it to Westminster and given the quality at Westminster that really does make them bad.

Between 2014-2020 Wales got 780 Euros per head while in 2020 alone Wales got over 10,000 pounds per head from Westminster. You put so much faith in the EU money but it's literally a drop in the ocean compared to what we get from London, how can it possibly have made any great difference?


That must mean that Johnson, Truss, Mogg, and Gove are 4th rate then.

Beware of the Risen People

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:47 - Jan 3 with 494 viewsfelixstowe_jack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:27 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack

That must mean that Johnson, Truss, Mogg, and Gove are 4th rate then.


Why don't you answer the points raised in a very good post instead of resorting to playground insults.

Just for information

First rate politicians became MPs
Second rate politicians became local councilors
Third rate politicians became MEP
Fourth rate politicians became Senedd or Scottish Parliament members.

A bit like the 4 division of the football league.

Poll: Sholud Wales rollout vaccination at full speed.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:56 - Jan 3 with 488 viewsfelixstowe_jack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:25 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack

When London decided Wales got no money.
But Wales got poor.

Under the EU then poor Wales got money.
Appropriately approved Welsh projects actually happened.

So ….. its no money with UK vs money with EU.

London had its chance and blew it.
And they dont even care.

The EU got extra funds to Wales. Winners.


You still do not understand the Barnett formula do you.
Under it for every £100 spent per person in England Wales gets £120 per person. When did you get the idea Wales got no money.

All EU funds Wales got were from the UK contribution to the EU.
Uk net contributions were approximately £9 billion.

Poll: Sholud Wales rollout vaccination at full speed.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:00 - Jan 3 with 488 viewsGwyn737

Saying we were net contributors is of course true.

However, that’s only taking in to account the direct money in and out. Doesn’t take into account the benefits of being part of a large trading bloc - trade, positive impact of economic migration, security savings from co-operations, joint scientific innovations etc. are far more difficult to calculate but must be taken into account.

What I’ve yet to see are what the economic benefits we’ve had from being out. The trade deals are no better than the EU has and there’s still a chance we’ll end up with lower standards which is a concern.

The drop in EU economic migration has just been replaced and more by non EU migration.

People keep talking about the freedom we have now but I can’t see what we’d have been forced to do with the veto we had.
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:03 - Jan 3 with 487 viewsDr_Winston

The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:00 - Jan 3 by Gwyn737

Saying we were net contributors is of course true.

However, that’s only taking in to account the direct money in and out. Doesn’t take into account the benefits of being part of a large trading bloc - trade, positive impact of economic migration, security savings from co-operations, joint scientific innovations etc. are far more difficult to calculate but must be taken into account.

What I’ve yet to see are what the economic benefits we’ve had from being out. The trade deals are no better than the EU has and there’s still a chance we’ll end up with lower standards which is a concern.

The drop in EU economic migration has just been replaced and more by non EU migration.

People keep talking about the freedom we have now but I can’t see what we’d have been forced to do with the veto we had.


The very best kind of true.

I make no claim to the benefits or otherwise in trade of EU membership. My comment was specifically in response to the cynical slapping of an EU flag on anything they claim to have funded when in reality UK taxpayers paid for everything.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:19 - Jan 3 with 483 viewsfelixstowe_jack

The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:00 - Jan 3 by Gwyn737

Saying we were net contributors is of course true.

However, that’s only taking in to account the direct money in and out. Doesn’t take into account the benefits of being part of a large trading bloc - trade, positive impact of economic migration, security savings from co-operations, joint scientific innovations etc. are far more difficult to calculate but must be taken into account.

What I’ve yet to see are what the economic benefits we’ve had from being out. The trade deals are no better than the EU has and there’s still a chance we’ll end up with lower standards which is a concern.

The drop in EU economic migration has just been replaced and more by non EU migration.

People keep talking about the freedom we have now but I can’t see what we’d have been forced to do with the veto we had.


The EU states do not have veto on most matters. All countries have to agree to the new treaties they sign e.g. Lisbon, maastricht , Rome etc. Occasionally one Country will vote not to accept a new EU treaty, fairly recently Ireland rejected a treaty in a referendum but were told to vote again.

The only effective veto countries have is on new members joining and the terms they can join on.

Poll: Sholud Wales rollout vaccination at full speed.

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The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:26 - Jan 3 with 477 viewsGwyn737

The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:19 - Jan 3 by felixstowe_jack

The EU states do not have veto on most matters. All countries have to agree to the new treaties they sign e.g. Lisbon, maastricht , Rome etc. Occasionally one Country will vote not to accept a new EU treaty, fairly recently Ireland rejected a treaty in a referendum but were told to vote again.

The only effective veto countries have is on new members joining and the terms they can join on.


Can’t think of many times we’ve been driven into things of note we didn’t want over the duration of our membership.

Certainly they weren’t important enough for us to have already diverged by now.
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The Welsh Brain Drain on 19:10 - Jan 5 with 379 viewsSullutaCreturned

The Welsh Brain Drain on 20:19 - Jan 3 by felixstowe_jack

The EU states do not have veto on most matters. All countries have to agree to the new treaties they sign e.g. Lisbon, maastricht , Rome etc. Occasionally one Country will vote not to accept a new EU treaty, fairly recently Ireland rejected a treaty in a referendum but were told to vote again.

The only effective veto countries have is on new members joining and the terms they can join on.


Which is why they usually tell people they have to vote again and keep going until they get the result they want, then no more votes!

It's why the EU commission wants to bring in qualified majority voting, it removes a veto.

people who say the Uk had a fantastic veto should remember the EU has for years been working on removing any members ability to say no.
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