| Sir Jim Ratcliffe 12:12 - Feb 12 with 6778 views | union_jack |
Another one coerced into apologising for saying it as it is (apart from his population figures which were wrong). |  |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 05:07 - Feb 13 with 750 views | KeithHaynes |
For me everybody is welcome if you work and pay your way. |  |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 05:11 - Feb 13 with 745 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 23:20 - Feb 12 by Dr_Winston |
Man Utd's owner expresses an opinion about immigration = FA Investigation
Newcastle Utd's owner chops up a dissenting journalist = no investigation
The culture whereby people are investigated and punished for expressing an opinion needs to end. |
There are some very stupid people about, let's chuck him out the country and he can take those thousands of jobs he has created with him. We can't have people saying what they think.
In Saudi, blogger Raif Badawi was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison for 'insulting Islam' and founding an online forum for political debate. He was due to be flogged 50 times every week. In 2022, Raif was finally released, but he faces a travel ban, meaning that after not seeing his family for 12 years, he will have to wait another 9 years.
No doubt, the loonies think this is the way to go. |  |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 06:29 - Feb 13 with 712 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 22:54 - Feb 12 by Demitrius |
Abhorent
Yet this is an isolted case
I've just lost any respect for you and picture you as an individual with yoor head up your own arse
The mass rape is a cultural anti-white, anti judeo-christian phenomenon encouraged by their mullahs and disciples...
Gwyn - you need help if you cannot see that for what it is and you can shove your whatabboutery where the monkey hides its nuts.... [Post edited 13 Feb 9:17]
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It’s nowhere near an isolated case.
I’ve been absolutely consistent - the grooming gang issue needs sorting but in the most effective way and not to the detriment of other equally awful crimes against children. |  | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 06:31 - Feb 13 with 708 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 05:07 - Feb 13 by KeithHaynes |
For me everybody is welcome if you work and pay your way. |
Absolutely.
Which is why I disagree when immigrants are lumped together as a group. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 08:45 - Feb 13 with 656 views | AnotherJohn |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 19:53 - Feb 12 by Gwyn737 |
It’s because the way he conveyed that message was racist.
I don’t think it’s that difficult:
“I have concerns about the impact of the current level of immigration on our welfare state and how some are choosing not to assimilate which is having an impact on our culture. I don’t think this is sustainable” - absolutely fine.
“We’ve been colonised by immigrants” - racist. It makes no differentiation for those making a positive contribution to the UK and stirs hate. |
I agree that Sir Jim Ratcliffe's language was poorly chosen and think that his intervention might have had more (positive) impact if the two main concerns of the high level of immigration since 2000 and the increase in the % of working age people on benefits had been communicated in more neutral language. Having accepted that the tone was wrong, however, I find myself uncertain about exactly how his comments were racist. As far as I can recall from long ago lectures, racism is a mode of thought that posits that clearly distinct races (genetic groups with distinctive phenotypes) exist in nature, ranks some races above others and discriminates on that basis. The traditional critique of this view was that research had shown the boundaries between genetic groups to be much less clearcut than has been supposed. So I wonder whether Ratcliffe's comment can be racist without identifying particular races that are seen as a problem. Statements like his seem to be more about how UK culture is being eroded or even displaced by migrants from many origin countries who have different norms and ways of life. It is hard to argue that majority of the white UK population comes from a different race than most of Western Europe, but until recently there was certainly a strong sense of British identity,. In other words, the reaction against mass immigration may be more about a preference for the home culture over other cultures, than a concern about the threat posed by a particular race as such. Even if somebody comes back to me and mentions the reaction to Islam, one might observe that followers come from several countries around the world with quite different "racial" characteristics. Could it be that those who sympathise with Ratcliffe are guilty of "culturism", rather than racism as such? [Post edited 13 Feb 9:47]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:22 - Feb 13 with 625 views | onehunglow |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 19:53 - Feb 12 by Gwyn737 |
It’s because the way he conveyed that message was racist.
I don’t think it’s that difficult:
“I have concerns about the impact of the current level of immigration on our welfare state and how some are choosing not to assimilate which is having an impact on our culture. I don’t think this is sustainable” - absolutely fine.
“We’ve been colonised by immigrants” - racist. It makes no differentiation for those making a positive contribution to the UK and stirs hate. |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 09:23 - Feb 13 with 627 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 08:45 - Feb 13 by AnotherJohn |
I agree that Sir Jim Ratcliffe's language was poorly chosen and think that his intervention might have had more (positive) impact if the two main concerns of the high level of immigration since 2000 and the increase in the % of working age people on benefits had been communicated in more neutral language. Having accepted that the tone was wrong, however, I find myself uncertain about exactly how his comments were racist. As far as I can recall from long ago lectures, racism is a mode of thought that posits that clearly distinct races (genetic groups with distinctive phenotypes) exist in nature, ranks some races above others and discriminates on that basis. The traditional critique of this view was that research had shown the boundaries between genetic groups to be much less clearcut than has been supposed. So I wonder whether Ratcliffe's comment can be racist without identifying particular races that are seen as a problem. Statements like his seem to be more about how UK culture is being eroded or even displaced by migrants from many origin countries who have different norms and ways of life. It is hard to argue that majority of the white UK population comes from a different race than most of Western Europe, but until recently there was certainly a strong sense of British identity,. In other words, the reaction against mass immigration may be more about a preference for the home culture over other cultures, than a concern about the threat posed by a particular race as such. Even if somebody comes back to me and mentions the reaction to Islam, one might observe that followers come from several countries around the world with quite different "racial" characteristics. Could it be that those who sympathise with Ratcliffe are guilty of "culturism", rather than racism as such? [Post edited 13 Feb 9:47]
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If you reflect on the social norms that help define a culture and a way of life, for example the clear difference between the freedoms that women enjoy in most western liberal democracies and the restrictions placed on women in other cultures then there is a case for discussion.
Those who simply jump on the bandwagon, often self righteous liberals who feel that their views should be imposed on others without question ignore the consequences of their faux outrage. They are happy to live in a country where for example, sections of society restrict women to being the possession of a man, where marriage is arranged and even fgm is acceptable. They hide behind shallow claims of racism rather than expose their acceptance of discrimination and oppression in the name of being better than those who are prepared to raise questions. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:13 - Feb 13 with 586 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:22 - Feb 13 by onehunglow |
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Great post | |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 10:48 - Feb 13 with 575 views | union_jack |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 05:07 - Feb 13 by KeithHaynes |
For me everybody is welcome if you work and pay your way. |
Sorry Keith but that’s not enough.
People coming from diverse cultures which we see every day in the UK need to assimilate into the culture if the country and not rigidly stick to their own which causes rifts in society.
Religion dominates the culture of Muslims here and they live and breath by the Quran. They are known to misinterpret the texts to satisfy their own actions, often illegal. That is something the indigenous culture and others from similar cultures worldwide do not live by. It’s this that causes the split we see. Maybe in generations time it will be different - one way or the other! - but today it is a major issue in the UK with not enough being done to calm this storm. | |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 10:57 - Feb 13 with 566 views | Gwyn737 |
A common theme on this thread is that everyone should be allowed to have an opinion.
Apart from me. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 10:59 - Feb 13 with 561 views | onehunglow |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 10:57 - Feb 13 by Gwyn737 |
A common theme on this thread is that everyone should be allowed to have an opinion.
Apart from me. |
Hardly | |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:27 - Feb 13 with 537 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 10:57 - Feb 13 by Gwyn737 |
A common theme on this thread is that everyone should be allowed to have an opinion.
Apart from me. |
I'd say the common theme is a six letter word beginning with R, justified with whataboutery.
Same old bigotry from the same old posters. Vacuously living their lives through GB News. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:45 - Feb 13 with 508 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:27 - Feb 13 by Scotia |
I'd say the common theme is a six letter word beginning with R, justified with whataboutery.
Same old bigotry from the same old posters. Vacuously living their lives through GB News. |
It's the hyperbole.
You could swear that Ratcliffe has been cancelled and isn't allowed an opinion.What's actually happened to him? Nothing.
AJ's post (as usual) has weight and provides a sensible perspective. We can argue over whether it's racisim (it is in my opinion and I'd like to point out that I very rarely use that word) or culturism (which I get there is also an argument for) but I don't think it's in doubt that he misspoke at best.
It amazing how so many people who are not alowed to have an opinion are constantly giving their opinion.
There isn't half some snowflakery around.
Good to see you back by the way. It was starting to get a bit of an echo chamber for me. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:55 - Feb 13 with 497 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:45 - Feb 13 by Gwyn737 |
It's the hyperbole.
You could swear that Ratcliffe has been cancelled and isn't allowed an opinion.What's actually happened to him? Nothing.
AJ's post (as usual) has weight and provides a sensible perspective. We can argue over whether it's racisim (it is in my opinion and I'd like to point out that I very rarely use that word) or culturism (which I get there is also an argument for) but I don't think it's in doubt that he misspoke at best.
It amazing how so many people who are not alowed to have an opinion are constantly giving their opinion.
There isn't half some snowflakery around.
Good to see you back by the way. It was starting to get a bit of an echo chamber for me. |
Sir Jim's original comment was antagonistic against a group of people based on their ethnicity. That's racism.
The clarification of his remarks in his "apology" was a perfectly acceptable point of view, his lack of a sincere apology is a concern though.
Aside from that he seems to be a massive hypocrite. But they all are. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 12:24 - Feb 13 with 478 views | AnotherJohn |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 11:55 - Feb 13 by Scotia |
Sir Jim's original comment was antagonistic against a group of people based on their ethnicity. That's racism.
The clarification of his remarks in his "apology" was a perfectly acceptable point of view, his lack of a sincere apology is a concern though.
Aside from that he seems to be a massive hypocrite. But they all are. |
But that claim in the first sentence is what some of us are struggling to see. What ethnic group was mentioned? What were Ratcliffe's words about ethnicity? Apologies if I missed them as I probably saw an incomplete transcript of the Sky interview. What we do see (and I am not singling out anybody on this forum) is many people using the R word as a generalised insult designed to stifle debate. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 12:58 - Feb 13 with 448 views | onehunglow |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 12:24 - Feb 13 by AnotherJohn |
But that claim in the first sentence is what some of us are struggling to see. What ethnic group was mentioned? What were Ratcliffe's words about ethnicity? Apologies if I missed them as I probably saw an incomplete transcript of the Sky interview. What we do see (and I am not singling out anybody on this forum) is many people using the R word as a generalised insult designed to stifle debate. |
And now the C word
Colonisation
Exactly what we did to catholic Ireland and to places like the Cape Colony
We effectively became the majority in an alien land
That is exactly what has happened in PrestonBlackburn Burnley Bradford Luton Leicester
All cities utterly seeing a changed social landscape
Parts of Bradford 2% white whete English is not the mother tongue of more than half the population
Areas where Christianity usurped by Islam whete meat has to be killed a certain way and on horrific circumstances
Anyone criticising Halal or kosher gets called racists and normally from 95% white towns
Hypocrites ?
Absolutely | |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 14:28 - Feb 13 with 412 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 12:24 - Feb 13 by AnotherJohn |
But that claim in the first sentence is what some of us are struggling to see. What ethnic group was mentioned? What were Ratcliffe's words about ethnicity? Apologies if I missed them as I probably saw an incomplete transcript of the Sky interview. What we do see (and I am not singling out anybody on this forum) is many people using the R word as a generalised insult designed to stifle debate. |
His exact words were:-
"The UK has been colonised by immigrants, really, hasn't it? "
He's referring to all ethnic gropus that aren't British, he doesn't have to single one out.
We usually see accusations of the term racism being perceived as stifling debate by racists. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 14:31 - Feb 13 with 408 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 12:58 - Feb 13 by onehunglow |
And now the C word
Colonisation
Exactly what we did to catholic Ireland and to places like the Cape Colony
We effectively became the majority in an alien land
That is exactly what has happened in PrestonBlackburn Burnley Bradford Luton Leicester
All cities utterly seeing a changed social landscape
Parts of Bradford 2% white whete English is not the mother tongue of more than half the population
Areas where Christianity usurped by Islam whete meat has to be killed a certain way and on horrific circumstances
Anyone criticising Halal or kosher gets called racists and normally from 95% white towns
Hypocrites ?
Absolutely |
And exactly what rich people have done to Monaco.
Sir Jim didn't refer to distinct parts of the UK, where immigrants were invited to settle to work in specific industries, he said the UK. He was spouting nonsense. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 15:07 - Feb 13 with 392 views | max936 |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 05:07 - Feb 13 by KeithHaynes |
For me everybody is welcome if you work and pay your way. |
That's exactly right, people who come here by legal means and work and contribute are well entitled to the things that other tax payers are entitled to and rightly so. |  |
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| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:10 - Feb 13 with 345 views | shingle |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 14:24 - Feb 12 by Gwyn737 |
There's nothing like a billionaire tax exile telling us how broken Britain is.
Maybe Man U will take a stand and stop signing immigrants. |
They sign skilled and legal immigrants and I would imagine Radcliffe does actually pay tax while these unvetted illegal men entering the country certainly do not.what is the matter with you.  | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:15 - Feb 13 with 343 views | shingle |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 19:53 - Feb 12 by Gwyn737 |
It’s because the way he conveyed that message was racist.
I don’t think it’s that difficult:
“I have concerns about the impact of the current level of immigration on our welfare state and how some are choosing not to assimilate which is having an impact on our culture. I don’t think this is sustainable” - absolutely fine.
“We’ve been colonised by immigrants” - racist. It makes no differentiation for those making a positive contribution to the UK and stirs hate. |
Give it up pal your getting owned and making a fool of yourself. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:44 - Feb 13 with 318 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:10 - Feb 13 by shingle |
They sign skilled and legal immigrants and I would imagine Radcliffe does actually pay tax while these unvetted illegal men entering the country certainly do not.what is the matter with you. |
Ratcliffe doesn't directly pay tax in the UK.
How about the match day staff at Old Trafford? The stewards, catering and bar staff at Old Trafford. Most at the Swansea.com are migrants.
Ratcliffe is part of the "problem" but people are too stupid to realise it | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:47 - Feb 13 with 312 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:15 - Feb 13 by shingle |
Give it up pal your getting owned and making a fool of yourself. |
Maybe on here. But it’s become a bit of an echo chamber and really reflective of the real world.
That’s fine. Everyone can carry on agreeing with each other and I’ll chip in every now and then. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 21:51 - Feb 13 with 250 views | Scotia |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 18:47 - Feb 13 by Gwyn737 |
Maybe on here. But it’s become a bit of an echo chamber and really reflective of the real world.
That’s fine. Everyone can carry on agreeing with each other and I’ll chip in every now and then. |
I'll be honest Gwyn, as this forum has become reflective of the opinions of the real world. You represent the actual real world outside of the Telegraph, Express, Mail, Sun, GB news, Talk radio, X and the rest of social media.
If people spoke from direct experience rather than what they're told the world would be a better place
Sad times. | | | |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 22:17 - Feb 13 with 239 views | Whiterockin |
| Sir Jim Ratcliffe on 21:51 - Feb 13 by Scotia |
I'll be honest Gwyn, as this forum has become reflective of the opinions of the real world. You represent the actual real world outside of the Telegraph, Express, Mail, Sun, GB news, Talk radio, X and the rest of social media.
If people spoke from direct experience rather than what they're told the world would be a better place
Sad times. |
Is the real world outside of the real world just the minority. |  | | |
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