| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? 05:15 - May 27 with 3050 views | AnotherJohn |
Sir Tony Blair says that the current Labour Government lacks a project and has persevered with damaging policies. It would be a great mistake to move further left. "The Labour Party is playing with fire; or, more accurately, with its future, and that of the country."
https://institute.global/insig [Post edited 27 May 7:47]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 08:06 - May 27 with 2526 views | Dr_Winston |
It's mostly down to Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair and his cronies that we're in this mess in the first place. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 08:43 - May 27 with 2510 views | AnotherJohn |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 08:06 - May 27 by Dr_Winston |
It's mostly down to Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair and his cronies that we're in this mess in the first place. |
I had a feeling that would be said and in fact I tend to agree. However, I'd argue that the essay is stronger in its diagnosis about what has gone wrong - net zero, welfare, anti-growth policies - than on Blair's policy proposals for the future. Some of these are misguided, but there is some sense in other areas like energy, welfare and illegal migration (do "whatever it takes"). Overall the essay is an interesting read and it will have impact., Blair is just about to go live on Times Radio at 8.45. [Post edited 27 May 8:45]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 09:15 - May 27 with 2487 views | Dr_Winston |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 08:43 - May 27 by AnotherJohn |
I had a feeling that would be said and in fact I tend to agree. However, I'd argue that the essay is stronger in its diagnosis about what has gone wrong - net zero, welfare, anti-growth policies - than on Blair's policy proposals for the future. Some of these are misguided, but there is some sense in other areas like energy, welfare and illegal migration (do "whatever it takes"). Overall the essay is an interesting read and it will have impact., Blair is just about to go live on Times Radio at 8.45. [Post edited 27 May 8:45]
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Saying the right things now doesn't excuse the choices he made then, nor guarantee that the right things would be done should he have the chance again.
Wisdom after the fact is not wisdom at all. Probably best he shuts up and enjoys the time he's got left before death or justice catch up with him. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 09:25 - May 27 with 2474 views | controversial_jack |
No, our economy is still the 5th largest The Blair govt wasn't that bad, apart from the disastrous wars. They put lots of investment into health and education. lifted many kids out of poverty, for it all to be undone by Tory austerity. | | | |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 10:32 - May 27 with 2424 views | AnotherJohn |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 09:15 - May 27 by Dr_Winston |
Saying the right things now doesn't excuse the choices he made then, nor guarantee that the right things would be done should he have the chance again.
Wisdom after the fact is not wisdom at all. Probably best he shuts up and enjoys the time he's got left before death or justice catch up with him. |
Well, given the magnitude of the damage the present crew could do in their two or three remaining years in power, I'd say the more voices sounding the alarm the better. | | | |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 10:43 - May 27 with 2405 views | builthjack |
We were on a downhill once Thatcher privatised everything she could.
Billionaires and paupers since that. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:16 - May 27 with 2392 views | AnotherJohn |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 10:43 - May 27 by builthjack |
We were on a downhill once Thatcher privatised everything she could.
Billionaires and paupers since that. |
It doesn’t seem that our younger board members remember Jim Callaghan flying back to London and saying “Crisis? What crisis?” A few memories of the 1970s:
Price inflation reached a 25% peak in 1976, coming together with an increased balance of payments deficit. A currency crisis forces the UK to go cap in hand to IMF for a $3.9 billion loan. The stagflation and economic decline results in spending cuts, and end of traditional Keynesian polices
Rising Unemployment = 1.6million by 1978.
5% pay cap in 1978 and 17% wage increase for Ford workers in late 1978 triggers the Winter of Discontent with multiple strikes.
Estimated11 million working days p.a. lost to strikes by 1979.
Thatcher is the beneficiary of wide spread public disillusion with Labour and walks in to No. 10 in 1979. [Post edited 27 May 11:20]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:20 - May 27 with 2388 views | builthjack |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:16 - May 27 by AnotherJohn |
It doesn’t seem that our younger board members remember Jim Callaghan flying back to London and saying “Crisis? What crisis?” A few memories of the 1970s:
Price inflation reached a 25% peak in 1976, coming together with an increased balance of payments deficit. A currency crisis forces the UK to go cap in hand to IMF for a $3.9 billion loan. The stagflation and economic decline results in spending cuts, and end of traditional Keynesian polices
Rising Unemployment = 1.6million by 1978.
5% pay cap in 1978 and 17% wage increase for Ford workers in late 1978 triggers the Winter of Discontent with multiple strikes.
Estimated11 million working days p.a. lost to strikes by 1979.
Thatcher is the beneficiary of wide spread public disillusion with Labour and walks in to No. 10 in 1979. [Post edited 27 May 11:20]
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Sounds similar to what's happening today. 14 years. 2 years. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:27 - May 27 with 2382 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Strange that this creature of the night has emerged from his coffin to launch a hand grenade into the heart of the Labour Party at this moment.
What is his plan? The guy is always on manoeuvres. |  |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 12:38 - May 27 with 2320 views | Togg |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 10:43 - May 27 by builthjack |
We were on a downhill once Thatcher privatised everything she could.
Billionaires and paupers since that. |
Don't you remember the Unions having the country by the gonards! Bins and the dead piling up. Callaghan ' Crisis What Crisis'. We were living with such riches then. It was bloody Utopia!! | | | |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 13:08 - May 27 with 2284 views | onehunglow |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 12:38 - May 27 by Togg |
Don't you remember the Unions having the country by the gonards! Bins and the dead piling up. Callaghan ' Crisis What Crisis'. We were living with such riches then. It was bloody Utopia!! |
And bodies | |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 13:55 - May 27 with 2275 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
There were rumours a few weeks ago of Blair being parachuted into the cabinet, much in the same way Cameron was by Sunak. I wonder if he fancies another crack at the top job? | |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 15:08 - May 27 with 2235 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
In the 1960 s. Harold Wilson was the same. A period of technological change and upbeat swinging sixties. Both Labour prime ministers.
The difference is that Harold made the correct " big calls" and Tony Blair did not.
Wilson refused to send troops to Vietnam. Blair sent troops to Iraq and it is not clear how anyone is better off from it. I get cheap haircut from Kudish hairdressers from Suleimanela.
One arguement missed is the " what could have been". The Iraq invasion is perceived as a disaster and based on fake narrative I believe was sponsored by Mr Netinyahu once again. But what would have happened if Saddam had stayed in power? He had butchered free thinkers in Iraq and gassed 4000 Kurds He has started a war with Iraq killing a million or so and generally intimidated expatriot Iraqis.
There is no way back for Blair after the " bad call" however over Iraq. He was either too easily duped or "in the pocket" of you know who. Either way he is finished if assessed by the British public. |  |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 16:51 - May 27 with 2193 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 15:08 - May 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
In the 1960 s. Harold Wilson was the same. A period of technological change and upbeat swinging sixties. Both Labour prime ministers.
The difference is that Harold made the correct " big calls" and Tony Blair did not.
Wilson refused to send troops to Vietnam. Blair sent troops to Iraq and it is not clear how anyone is better off from it. I get cheap haircut from Kudish hairdressers from Suleimanela.
One arguement missed is the " what could have been". The Iraq invasion is perceived as a disaster and based on fake narrative I believe was sponsored by Mr Netinyahu once again. But what would have happened if Saddam had stayed in power? He had butchered free thinkers in Iraq and gassed 4000 Kurds He has started a war with Iraq killing a million or so and generally intimidated expatriot Iraqis.
There is no way back for Blair after the " bad call" however over Iraq. He was either too easily duped or "in the pocket" of you know who. Either way he is finished if assessed by the British public. |
Netanyahu was not in power at the time, Israel did not fight in Blair and Bush's war. Much of the unqualified evidence, over and above the better evidence that came from the weapons inspectors, against Iraq came from dissidents opposed to the Iraqi regime.
The collective 'failure' of intelligence went far and wide involving many countries, 30 countries formed the coalition of the willing playing a variety of roles.
https://www.sipri.org/commenta
What is more contemporary is the fact that the Whitehouse consulted with the Tony Blair institute in the lead up to the current Iran war [Post edited 27 May 18:50]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 18:22 - May 27 with 2135 views | Dippersmate |
I hope Blair is treated with the contempt he deserves.
People arguing over left and right when its pointless. They are both responsible for where this country is today. | | | |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:38 - May 28 with 2011 views | trampie |
Tony Blair is a Tory, Stamer is a Tory, calling NuLabour left wing or socialist is a game, they are right wingers.
Labour, Conservatives, Reform are all right wing parties that offer the same thing, neoliberalism policies, austerity.
If you check the political compass site, Labour, Conservatives, Reform could be said to be right wing, almost fascist parties.
Plaid, Greens, SNP, SDLP all in the centre just one or two dots left of centre, Labour, Tories, Reform off the scale right wing, check the graphs don't just take my word for it. |  |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 09:10 - May 28 with 2002 views | onehunglow |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 18:22 - May 27 by Dippersmate |
I hope Blair is treated with the contempt he deserves.
People arguing over left and right when its pointless. They are both responsible for where this country is today. |
100% correct | |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 06:53 - May 29 with 1921 views | AnotherJohn |
I said that Blair’s intervention - whether people welcome it or not – will have impact. So far it has prompted reaction essays from Starmer and Streeting and today in the Times from Burnham. In outline it is a call for more state intervention to counter the failure of regulation in recent years.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/po
(Here is what is behind the paywall – apologies about the length but I thought some might be interested)
(…)
As always, Tony Blair has important — and correct — things to say. He is right about the vital need for higher economic growth as the enabler of greater social justice. He correctly argues that our relentless focus now should be on domestic issues, and fixing our own underlying problems, rather than on re-running divisive arguments about rejoining the European Union. And he rightly says that any debate about the future direction of Labour must start with an analysis of what is wrong and a plan to put it right.
So far so good. I agree with all of that. But, as I read on, I kept waiting for the main topic of conversation on doorsteps in Makerfield to make an appearance. And it never did. The fall in the living standards of millions, and the reality that life has got harder for most year on year since the financial crash in 2008, is, I believe, the gaping omission in his analysis.
(,,,)
Lest we forget: the principal cause of the 2008 crash was a failure of regulation. So how can a new wave of deregulation plausibly be the answer to the problems we have experienced since? This is the real “retro” thinking, I suggest; the kind of thinking that would doom us to repeat past mistakes and, if we’re not careful, prevent us from protecting children by failing to regulate social media, artificial intelligence and big tech.
The new forward-looking thinking is to have a clear-eyed analysis of how Britain changed in the four decades after the new economic settlement initiated by the Thatcher government, and develop a plan from there to lift people’s living standards. This must be the defining mission of now.
(…)
Developing a plan to prevent this takes me back to my big point of agreement with Tony: the need to build a higher-growth economy and, from there, achieve greater regional equality and social justice.
In Greater Manchester, we have laid a new path to that. We call it Good Growth. In the past decade, we achieved the highest annual average growth anywhere in the UK — 3.1 per cent — and, at the same time, as the Centre for Cities recently found, the biggest reduction in inner-city deprivation. This has not come about by leaving things to the market but by being very interventionist and intentional about it.
During my time as mayor, I had a big moment of learning about how to change the fortunes of towns outside of the city. It came shortly after the pandemic, when private investors walked away from a flagship regeneration scheme at the heart of Stockport. My team confronted me with the dilemma: were we going to abandon the scheme or were we prepared to take the risk of putting in patient public capital? In other words, were we going to let the market determine the future of Stockport or were we going to set that ambition ourselves?
We chose the latter and the resplendent scheme, visible from the west coast mainline, is already fully let.
The lesson from Greater Manchester is that you can’t just leave it to the market, as Tony’s essay seems to suggest. If you want higher growth in areas that don’t have it, you need strong public control and direction over both the investment strategy and the enablers of a more productive economy, such as transport, energy, water, education and housing.
We are proud to be the first place anywhere to reverse one of the biggest Thatcher legacies: bus deregulation. A system that charged single fares of more than £4 when I arrived in 2017 is now capped at £2. Young people have free travel and older and disabled people have no 9.30am restriction on the use of their passes. Tony is right to say that we need welfare reform and that the numbers of young people on benefits is too high, but how can you fix that if people can’t afford to travel to training, jobs and opportunity? How can anyone in Makerfield take up a short-notice job interview in London when the price of an anytime return is £364?
We won’t achieve a reduction in welfare spending unless we are also prepared to revisit flawed thinking on education.
Doubling down on the education policies of the Labour government of the 2000s and the coalition government means continuing with a system that prioritises the university route over technical education and therefore fails to raise the aspirations of at least half of our young people. The future, and particularly one with the challenges posed by AI, demands an education system built on the firm principle of parity between academic and technical paths.
Technical education needs to be under local devolved control so we can build back paths through our excellent colleges and schools to places like the proposed modern vehicle manufacturing plant in Hindley Green, on the old PPG site, and our clean energy cluster in Carrington. This change is essential if we are to become serious about “reindustrialising” the regions with future-facing jobs.
That last point is a positive point of consensus with Tony from which to build, as is the need for a reimagined state. First, we need to fix the dysfunctional parts of Whitehall, particularly the Home Office, to restore confidence. The home secretary is making progress but there is more to be done. Outsourced contracts that seek the cheapest accommodation in some of the UK’s most deprived communities is not the basis for a fair asylum system. On small boat crossings, Tony echoes many people in Makerfield in calling for much firmer control.
Beyond this, we need to remodel the state around the principle of place and maximum devolution of power out of the Whitehall silos into the regions and nations. At present we have a threadbare local state and a bloated national one. We will not create the conditions for local growth if things stay like that.
We need a huge transfer of power, resources and personnel to combined and local authorities to create more agency at the ground level, empower our community and voluntary sectors and make Good Growth a reality everywhere. This means big changes to British public procurement, using full social value weighting, to give local entities the best chance of winning contracts and recycling maximum value back into communities.
Greater Manchester has pioneered this approach by being more pragmatic than political — answering one of Tony’s key concerns. The secret to our success is setting a unifying long-term vision for the city-region that all sectors can get behind. It’s the polar opposite of the Westminster culture. Where they do point-scoring, we do problem-solving. Where they do party-first, we do place-first. We have built a pro-business approach and a new political culture that could be part of the forward plan for the country, a more collaborative politics in Westminster creating a stable platform for some of the long-term structural changes the country needs. In other words, a new politics to build a new economy.
In conclusion, I am glad Tony has opened up this much-needed policy debate in a very direct way. The fact that he has done it in the middle of a by-election is also a beautiful thing. It means that the people and places of Makerfield, areas which Westminster has tended to look past, finally have the power to decide the direction and write a new story for the country.
_______
It looks as though Andy has mixed feelings about the “beautiful thing”.
The Swansea West MP – Thorsten Bell – is doing media interviews to give his view on the debate this morning. [Post edited 29 May 7:51]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:21 - May 29 with 1915 views | Dr_Winston |
"As always, Tony Blair has important — and correct — things to say"
It lost me with the first sentence.
What Burnham also neglects to mention is that the debt owed by the Greater Manchester local authority has skyrocketed under his tenure. He's making the same mistakes that Blair and Brown made that started off most of our problems. He's mistaking borrowing money for investment. Running up deficits to pay for things like someone buying a telly from Brighthouse or spreading the costs on Klarna. When the bill comes due the problems will start.
You have to control public spending. When that is achieved, then you might have some spare cash to put towards your pet projects. [Post edited 29 May 7:40]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:21 - May 29 with 1905 views | trampie |
It's all nonsense AnotherJohn, it's all doing what has failed, it's all tinkering around the edges, its all more of the same, its all failed neoliberalism, its failed trickle down, capitalism has failed the majority of people and is now in its death throws failing even more and more people, we need a form of communism, we need a wealth tax and we will need UBI. | |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:39 - May 29 with 1905 views | Whiterockin |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:21 - May 29 by trampie |
It's all nonsense AnotherJohn, it's all doing what has failed, it's all tinkering around the edges, its all more of the same, its all failed neoliberalism, its failed trickle down, capitalism has failed the majority of people and is now in its death throws failing even more and more people, we need a form of communism, we need a wealth tax and we will need UBI. |
If you want communism go and live in a communist country. The UK is a capitalist country and if run properly it will work. We currently have major issues, simply taxation to feed the problems is not the answer. |  | | |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:41 - May 29 with 1903 views | Dr_Winston |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:39 - May 29 by Whiterockin |
If you want communism go and live in a communist country. The UK is a capitalist country and if run properly it will work. We currently have major issues, simply taxation to feed the problems is not the answer. |
The Hammer and Sickle should be regarded with the same disgust as the Swastika. The fact that it isn't is a major indicator that things are badly wrong in the UK today. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:49 - May 29 with 1892 views | trampie |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:39 - May 29 by Whiterockin |
If you want communism go and live in a communist country. The UK is a capitalist country and if run properly it will work. We currently have major issues, simply taxation to feed the problems is not the answer. |
You know the saying about 'keep doing what you are doing and expect different results is madness', we keep doing what we are doing and not even getting the same results, we are getting even worse results because the rich are getting richer and the middle class is losing their wealth and the poor are getting poorer. [Post edited 29 May 9:20]
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:39 - May 29 with 1834 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 07:49 - May 29 by trampie |
You know the saying about 'keep doing what you are doing and expect different results is madness', we keep doing what we are doing and not even getting the same results, we are getting even worse results because the rich are getting richer and the middle class is losing their wealth and the poor are getting poorer. [Post edited 29 May 9:20]
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So we should start doing the thing that has failed everywhere every time it has been tried?
Good idea. | |
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| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:45 - May 29 with 1832 views | Whiterockin |
| Is the UK facing relegation from the Premier League of nations? on 11:39 - May 29 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
So we should start doing the thing that has failed everywhere every time it has been tried?
Good idea. |
I know we laugh but there really is a A465 syndrome. I blame Drakeford for not reducing the speed limit to 50mph pollution apparently does do damage. | | | |
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