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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) 10:06 - Aug 21 with 3855 viewssotonswan

Apologies if a ferdy. I saw this elsewhere.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/aug/19/football-clubs-minimum-wage-hmrc

"Revenue and Customs said it could not give further details but in April Reading and Swansea were found to be advertising for unpaid interns, including one post which lasted a year and did not even include reimbursement for expenses."

"A performance analyst at Swansea claimed he was not paid despite working days of more than 12 hours on occasion and having to meeting tight deadlines for the club. Swansea FC said it was now paying all of its staff, including its mascot, Cyril the Swan."

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 10:29 - Aug 21 with 3801 viewsSenhin

£5000 fine if they don't start paying them...


Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 10:39 - Aug 21 with 3776 viewsCatullus

I saw this job, so called, advertised. I was ashamed of our club. All the money we make and all that we pay players yet we wanted people to work for free.
My love affair with football is suffering. It's hard to love the greedy and self centred.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 10:42 - Aug 21 with 3773 viewsDull1Thomas

Nice pic of Cyril at the Vetch

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 10:49 - Aug 21 with 3761 viewsJackSomething

Surely it all depends what the individuals get out of the internship? Unpaid internships are common in careers where it can be difficult to get 'a foot in the door'. Ironically in light of this article in the Guardian, the media is one of the most popular industries for this.

I don't agree with them myself and not even paying expenses seems draconian, but it's a bit rich to only have a pop at football clubs when this is an issue in many industries.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:04 - Aug 21 with 3737 viewsCatullus

Any unpaid jobs (where lots of money is made) are perverse.
Murdoch is the king of perversity.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:26 - Aug 21 with 3679 viewsUxbridge

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 10:49 - Aug 21 by JackSomething

Surely it all depends what the individuals get out of the internship? Unpaid internships are common in careers where it can be difficult to get 'a foot in the door'. Ironically in light of this article in the Guardian, the media is one of the most popular industries for this.

I don't agree with them myself and not even paying expenses seems draconian, but it's a bit rich to only have a pop at football clubs when this is an issue in many industries.


True enough, but there's something very wrong with a supposed community football club generating £100m turnover pa and happily paying £2m worth of dividends to its shareholders but can't even be bothered to pay minimum wage to junior staff.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:37 - Aug 21 with 3656 viewsjackforever

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:26 - Aug 21 by Uxbridge

True enough, but there's something very wrong with a supposed community football club generating £100m turnover pa and happily paying £2m worth of dividends to its shareholders but can't even be bothered to pay minimum wage to junior staff.


Agree 100%
TBH the club has slipped a long way imo and struggles to take a moral high ground.
Our prices compared to similar clubs are high, as are our season tickets.
The policy to sell ST so early leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if Im honest 2m dividends and more to come is fine as long as we have repaid the likes of the St Johns Ambulance the monies owed to them during the CVA.
The complete lack of accoutability on shirt sales, season ticket mix ups, ticketing website, the food and drink, etc etc is also unacceptable as we are now a £100m business.
On the field superb and a tremendous achievement, now is the time though to look at our core values and what we stand for and to start putting the fans back into the heart of the club.
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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:49 - Aug 21 with 3630 viewsDr_Winston

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:37 - Aug 21 by jackforever

Agree 100%
TBH the club has slipped a long way imo and struggles to take a moral high ground.
Our prices compared to similar clubs are high, as are our season tickets.
The policy to sell ST so early leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if Im honest 2m dividends and more to come is fine as long as we have repaid the likes of the St Johns Ambulance the monies owed to them during the CVA.
The complete lack of accoutability on shirt sales, season ticket mix ups, ticketing website, the food and drink, etc etc is also unacceptable as we are now a £100m business.
On the field superb and a tremendous achievement, now is the time though to look at our core values and what we stand for and to start putting the fans back into the heart of the club.


I don't have any problem whatsoever with the idea of unpaid internships (although not even refunding expenses is taking the piss a bit), but this post is absolutely spot on.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 15:54 - Aug 21 with 3484 viewsDafyddHuw

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:37 - Aug 21 by jackforever

Agree 100%
TBH the club has slipped a long way imo and struggles to take a moral high ground.
Our prices compared to similar clubs are high, as are our season tickets.
The policy to sell ST so early leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if Im honest 2m dividends and more to come is fine as long as we have repaid the likes of the St Johns Ambulance the monies owed to them during the CVA.
The complete lack of accoutability on shirt sales, season ticket mix ups, ticketing website, the food and drink, etc etc is also unacceptable as we are now a £100m business.
On the field superb and a tremendous achievement, now is the time though to look at our core values and what we stand for and to start putting the fans back into the heart of the club.


Spot on sentiments bro. Agree with evry word.

Seems we were a much nicer outfit when our turnover was piss-poor.
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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 15:55 - Aug 21 with 3476 viewswaynekerr55

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:49 - Aug 21 by Dr_Winston

I don't have any problem whatsoever with the idea of unpaid internships (although not even refunding expenses is taking the piss a bit), but this post is absolutely spot on.


seconded

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 16:27 - Aug 21 with 3452 viewsWatchman

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 12:37 - Aug 21 by jackforever

Agree 100%
TBH the club has slipped a long way imo and struggles to take a moral high ground.
Our prices compared to similar clubs are high, as are our season tickets.
The policy to sell ST so early leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if Im honest 2m dividends and more to come is fine as long as we have repaid the likes of the St Johns Ambulance the monies owed to them during the CVA.
The complete lack of accoutability on shirt sales, season ticket mix ups, ticketing website, the food and drink, etc etc is also unacceptable as we are now a £100m business.
On the field superb and a tremendous achievement, now is the time though to look at our core values and what we stand for and to start putting the fans back into the heart of the club.


Bang on the money.
Of course if it is the fan' club then ALL Dividend should be given to the Trust for the rainy day.

Time for the trust heirarchy to issue a statement but I feel that they have become comfortable now.

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 19:00 - Aug 21 with 3383 viewsexiledclaseboy

Cracking post.

And unpaid internships should be outlawed.

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 19:35 - Aug 21 with 3323 viewsyescomeon

It's hard enough to get an unpaid internship. Take those away and how are young people supposed to get the experience that jobs ask for these days.

Upthecity!

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 20:40 - Aug 21 with 3278 viewsUxbridge

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 19:35 - Aug 21 by yescomeon

It's hard enough to get an unpaid internship. Take those away and how are young people supposed to get the experience that jobs ask for these days.


By being paid to do that job?

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 21:09 - Aug 21 with 3251 viewsFieryJack

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 20:40 - Aug 21 by Uxbridge

By being paid to do that job?


Don't be so absurd, Uxbridge.

If anything, the interns should be paying for the privilege of being allowed access to the experience of employment!

Now there's a thought: the Managing Director of the company I work for recently had all his golf clubs stolen, and when I get paid at the end of the month I shall be handing over all of my wage to him so that he can replace them.
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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:44 - Aug 22 with 3133 viewsyescomeon

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 20:40 - Aug 21 by Uxbridge

By being paid to do that job?


If companies are forced to pay then the chances are they'll take the opportunities away. I admit they are not ideal and in a perfect world they would be paid, but the world is far from perfect.

Upthecity!

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:50 - Aug 22 with 3127 viewsUxbridge

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:44 - Aug 22 by yescomeon

If companies are forced to pay then the chances are they'll take the opportunities away. I admit they are not ideal and in a perfect world they would be paid, but the world is far from perfect.


There's either a job vacancy or there isn't. I'd argue if someone is performing a role at a company for any significant period of time then there's clearly a need for someone to perform that job and be paid accordingly. I've got some sympathy with the principle of short-term unpaid work experience gigs in the right circumstances but they need to be limited and controlled to ensure the employee is not being exploited.

It'd be interesting to know just how many unpaid intern positions exist out there and how many of them get taken on by their current employers. I wonder how many of those companies simply move the position to the next unpaid intern and so on.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:56 - Aug 22 with 3114 viewswaynekerr55

I'm impressed how this thread hasn't been turned into "unpaid internships are what the Tory's want"


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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 13:04 - Aug 22 with 3069 viewsyescomeon

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 11:50 - Aug 22 by Uxbridge

There's either a job vacancy or there isn't. I'd argue if someone is performing a role at a company for any significant period of time then there's clearly a need for someone to perform that job and be paid accordingly. I've got some sympathy with the principle of short-term unpaid work experience gigs in the right circumstances but they need to be limited and controlled to ensure the employee is not being exploited.

It'd be interesting to know just how many unpaid intern positions exist out there and how many of them get taken on by their current employers. I wonder how many of those companies simply move the position to the next unpaid intern and so on.


We're better of over here than in the state with respect to this, over there you need a collage degree just to get an unpaid intership (it has happened to a friend of mine). When I graduated I was royally f*cked of as there are no graduate jobs that don't require x years amount of experience which admittedly I could have done at uni but as I did quite a hefty degree and had to work the holidays to pay for the course it would have been incredibly difficult to go and get the experience. Someone working at a job for a period like a year unpaid and without expenses I wholeheartedly do not agree with but there does need to be care taken with the rules on unpaid internships as they are vital I feel for people to build up the required experience.

Upthecity!

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 13:14 - Aug 22 with 3058 viewsCatullus

That's the whole point. That's basic idea itself isn't do wrong. But like everything else (tax etc) big companies exploit every loophole.
They take on unpaid workers and then, when the time is right, they let them go and take on another unpaid worker.
Yes you get experience, but with no hope of a proper job at the end of it.
Any wonder some prefer the dole?
There are people who want to work for whom it is not financially viable.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 16:55 - Aug 22 with 2985 viewsyescomeon

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 13:14 - Aug 22 by Catullus

That's the whole point. That's basic idea itself isn't do wrong. But like everything else (tax etc) big companies exploit every loophole.
They take on unpaid workers and then, when the time is right, they let them go and take on another unpaid worker.
Yes you get experience, but with no hope of a proper job at the end of it.
Any wonder some prefer the dole?
There are people who want to work for whom it is not financially viable.


Would you not be able to claim the dole and do the internship, that must be what people do to survive an unpaid internship right? If so then that's pretty much the government (barely) paying someone to work for some big company, now that is not right. (I don't know if this happens though)

Upthecity!

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 17:04 - Aug 22 with 2977 viewsPlasticman

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 16:55 - Aug 22 by yescomeon

Would you not be able to claim the dole and do the internship, that must be what people do to survive an unpaid internship right? If so then that's pretty much the government (barely) paying someone to work for some big company, now that is not right. (I don't know if this happens though)


I think it depends ont he country. (since comparisons where already being made across countries)
Some places people on the dole have to be 'available' for a job, in the fantasy case that one should happen for them, and be actively seeking a new (paid) job to keep getting money from the government. Being in an unpaid job could place you in a position where you are not available for this theoretical paid job and thus makes it illegal for you to have the unpaid job while getting money from the government.

So depending on how things are at a given location, it can even add to peoples problems with stuff like that.

In any regards, my stance is that if it is a job that needs to be done, it's a job that is worth paying for. If companies can't be realistic with their requirements for job applications (demanding work related experience for jobs where it isn't really required), then that should be looked at instead of basicly allowing modern slave-labour which I view unpaid jobs as.

Plastic since 2012

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Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 17:12 - Aug 22 with 2972 viewsyescomeon

Guardian - Football clubs warned to pay staff minimum wage (SR) on 17:04 - Aug 22 by Plasticman

I think it depends ont he country. (since comparisons where already being made across countries)
Some places people on the dole have to be 'available' for a job, in the fantasy case that one should happen for them, and be actively seeking a new (paid) job to keep getting money from the government. Being in an unpaid job could place you in a position where you are not available for this theoretical paid job and thus makes it illegal for you to have the unpaid job while getting money from the government.

So depending on how things are at a given location, it can even add to peoples problems with stuff like that.

In any regards, my stance is that if it is a job that needs to be done, it's a job that is worth paying for. If companies can't be realistic with their requirements for job applications (demanding work related experience for jobs where it isn't really required), then that should be looked at instead of basicly allowing modern slave-labour which I view unpaid jobs as.


I had a google and you can claim. I also found another good article;

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/sep/09/make-most-of-unpaid-internship

I was definitely one of those who was accepting it as a fact of life though mind. I still think they are worthwhile but they are being exploited by the sounds of it. I'm an intern myself but I'm lucky enough to be paid.

Upthecity!

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