| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. 18:39 - Oct 15 with 1183 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
As we know he club has a mysterious loan. (to be coverted into equity - new shares).
Why has the loan been made?. One reason is to help Winter with cash flow.
In the Dan James fiasco the cash flow position might have been very tight and Leeds knew this and put a severe squeeze on. The club were forced into a corner and the pressure caused internal changes.
The new money means there are no such problems and the club can continue to pay the bills without selling anyone if in the order of £10m or so. It is a buffer giving the Chirman wiggle room.
This means the likes of Mr Levy cannot bully Swansea into an unsuitable deal for Rodon especially if Liecester are in the wings for January. The loan is therefore good for shaerholders and fans to enable the negiciating of good terms for the sale of the crown jewels. Credit where credit is due. Not much chance on here but cash is king. |  |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 20:04 - Oct 15 with 877 views | Chief |
Well that's quite the theory!
Here's a perspective from a fan of the club who's also a realist and is not dazzled or deluded by people from across the Atlantic bearing 'gifts':
-the Dan James situation was a fiasco of the American's own making - thankfully Huw pulled the deal because he saw through the Americans greed. There was no need to sell at that ridiculous price as evidenced by the fact the deal didn't go through &the club carried on operating&benefited from Huws foresight down the road (it did cost him his job though).
-with the vast amounts of money we've brought in as well as the cost cutting that's taken place you can't pinpoint the relatively paltry amount that Silverstein has loaned us as instrumental. Frankly the wiggle room was already there.
-Levy came in with such a pathetic offer to start with, even the most inept of chief executives would have negotiated¬ be bullied by that. It wasn't even tempting.
And let us also reserve some judgement also because:
- We don't know how much Silverstein loaned us.
- we don't know how much interest he's charging us.
- for all we know he could recall it whenever he likes.
- we do not know what is going on at boardroom level&how this loan relates to that.
- This loan allows Silverstein involvement in the club - he said himself he'd be "hands on". But with no track record of working in British football, I'm not convinced that's a good thing. His other comments suggest he's pretty out of touch.
- Rodon hasn't been sold yet! So we don't even know if the club negotiated well or not! Frankly if this loan was that good, maybe we should have walked away as soon as Levy lowballed us!
- this loan is not necessarily good for shareholders is it? Sure it's fine for the American contingent. But this could (if he turns it into equity) dilute the other shareholders, devaluing their shares.
- No fan of our their football club should think it's a good thing to be in debt to a strange unknown money lender. |  |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:42 - Oct 15 with 815 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 20:04 - Oct 15 by Chief |
Well that's quite the theory!
Here's a perspective from a fan of the club who's also a realist and is not dazzled or deluded by people from across the Atlantic bearing 'gifts':
-the Dan James situation was a fiasco of the American's own making - thankfully Huw pulled the deal because he saw through the Americans greed. There was no need to sell at that ridiculous price as evidenced by the fact the deal didn't go through &the club carried on operating&benefited from Huws foresight down the road (it did cost him his job though).
-with the vast amounts of money we've brought in as well as the cost cutting that's taken place you can't pinpoint the relatively paltry amount that Silverstein has loaned us as instrumental. Frankly the wiggle room was already there.
-Levy came in with such a pathetic offer to start with, even the most inept of chief executives would have negotiated¬ be bullied by that. It wasn't even tempting.
And let us also reserve some judgement also because:
- We don't know how much Silverstein loaned us.
- we don't know how much interest he's charging us.
- for all we know he could recall it whenever he likes.
- we do not know what is going on at boardroom level&how this loan relates to that.
- This loan allows Silverstein involvement in the club - he said himself he'd be "hands on". But with no track record of working in British football, I'm not convinced that's a good thing. His other comments suggest he's pretty out of touch.
- Rodon hasn't been sold yet! So we don't even know if the club negotiated well or not! Frankly if this loan was that good, maybe we should have walked away as soon as Levy lowballed us!
- this loan is not necessarily good for shareholders is it? Sure it's fine for the American contingent. But this could (if he turns it into equity) dilute the other shareholders, devaluing their shares.
- No fan of our their football club should think it's a good thing to be in debt to a strange unknown money lender. |
Your understanding of dilution is very poor. Dillution is not devaluation. When dillution is worked out it is done in a way not to devalue but to be fair to the minor shareholders. This is the problem with forums and why I suggested a financial Q and A on this splendid forum. The club valuation is determined by accountants.
You really need to get on top of this. The Trusts shares may be worth say 21% of £40m. The value is £8.4m. If new shares are issued for a value of £10m and the Trust decines to buy any the club is worth £50m.The Trusts holding is still £8.4m but that only constitues 16.8% of the club. Dillution is not devaluation.
Therefore turning the debt into equity is genuine new money that helps the club in more than one way and does not devalue the Trust. It is upto to Cooper and Scott not to waste the money. One or two posters on here claimed Rodon was worth no more than £5m given the Covid crisis and the clubs weak position. The loan ensures the club did not have a weak position and can eek out the extra millions from Spurs to the benefit of all associated with Swansea city. It is Mr Winter's job to explain the "loan" to the shareholders | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:59 - Oct 15 with 801 views | Chief |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:42 - Oct 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Your understanding of dilution is very poor. Dillution is not devaluation. When dillution is worked out it is done in a way not to devalue but to be fair to the minor shareholders. This is the problem with forums and why I suggested a financial Q and A on this splendid forum. The club valuation is determined by accountants.
You really need to get on top of this. The Trusts shares may be worth say 21% of £40m. The value is £8.4m. If new shares are issued for a value of £10m and the Trust decines to buy any the club is worth £50m.The Trusts holding is still £8.4m but that only constitues 16.8% of the club. Dillution is not devaluation.
Therefore turning the debt into equity is genuine new money that helps the club in more than one way and does not devalue the Trust. It is upto to Cooper and Scott not to waste the money. One or two posters on here claimed Rodon was worth no more than £5m given the Covid crisis and the clubs weak position. The loan ensures the club did not have a weak position and can eek out the extra millions from Spurs to the benefit of all associated with Swansea city. It is Mr Winter's job to explain the "loan" to the shareholders |
Yes I'm no expert on dilution but in real terms I can see it devalues the the minority share holders. It does take the trust further away from the dream 25% stake&also puts more voting into hands likely to go along with the Americans.
In theory it also then increases the 'value' of the club or precisely it's just more that people would need to pay if they wanted to buy the club. I don't really see how it's a good thing when we're in the championship.
Basically Cooper and Scott are not going to be allowed to spend any money. Let alone waste any. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:15 - Oct 15 with 790 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:59 - Oct 15 by Chief |
Yes I'm no expert on dilution but in real terms I can see it devalues the the minority share holders. It does take the trust further away from the dream 25% stake&also puts more voting into hands likely to go along with the Americans.
In theory it also then increases the 'value' of the club or precisely it's just more that people would need to pay if they wanted to buy the club. I don't really see how it's a good thing when we're in the championship.
Basically Cooper and Scott are not going to be allowed to spend any money. Let alone waste any. |
Not being an experts did not stop you from saying it devalues the trust holding when it does not.
The 25% holding is pure fantasy. £4m short in the PL £1.6m short now. The members will not cough up anything other than irrelevent nominal sums. Voting is irrelevant. Your prespective is downright wierd after reading drivel on this forums previous ownership, no doubt, for years when all common sense was banned.
You are a Supporter of SCST not Swansea City. I have written off the SCST as they have nothing to offer the club. When the club hit a minor crisis in 2017 they had no money after 15 years of doing nothing. Action becme impossible as they had never had to act before. Doing nothing was highly profitable for them under HJ, but they forgot to put themselves up for sale as they do not have the knowledge to handle big sums of money. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:36 - Oct 15 with 769 views | Garyjack |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:59 - Oct 15 by Chief |
Yes I'm no expert on dilution but in real terms I can see it devalues the the minority share holders. It does take the trust further away from the dream 25% stake&also puts more voting into hands likely to go along with the Americans.
In theory it also then increases the 'value' of the club or precisely it's just more that people would need to pay if they wanted to buy the club. I don't really see how it's a good thing when we're in the championship.
Basically Cooper and Scott are not going to be allowed to spend any money. Let alone waste any. |
Don't be drawn in by this idiot. He has a lot of history of posting on subjects that he thinks he's knowledgeable on, but a little scratch under the surface easily reveals that he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.
Investment in a company may well increase it's value. A loan to plug holes or debt (even if converted into equity) does not.
In simple terms, if you own a house worth £250k and someone loans you £50k to make improvements etc. Then it's safe to say your home will increase in value. But if you are behind on your mortgage payments, or need money to tide you over to pay that mortgage, if someone loans you £50k, then it doesn't mean your house is then worth £300k! As i've said, it's dgt73, a long term site clown!  |  | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:43 - Oct 15 with 758 views | BillyChong |
Great news, that must mean Joe will still be with us next season unless Leicester stump up major cash in January. And maybe we’ll add a couple of signings in the meantime. All hail our saviour Jake Silverstein. |  | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:47 - Oct 15 with 750 views | Chief |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:15 - Oct 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Not being an experts did not stop you from saying it devalues the trust holding when it does not.
The 25% holding is pure fantasy. £4m short in the PL £1.6m short now. The members will not cough up anything other than irrelevent nominal sums. Voting is irrelevant. Your prespective is downright wierd after reading drivel on this forums previous ownership, no doubt, for years when all common sense was banned.
You are a Supporter of SCST not Swansea City. I have written off the SCST as they have nothing to offer the club. When the club hit a minor crisis in 2017 they had no money after 15 years of doing nothing. Action becme impossible as they had never had to act before. Doing nothing was highly profitable for them under HJ, but they forgot to put themselves up for sale as they do not have the knowledge to handle big sums of money. |
- I've just pointed out above how it in real terms gives the minority share holders a bum deal (which they are helpless to stop).
- yea maybe increasingly far away but that's not really the point.
- no idea what you're on about with banned stuff.
- No I am a fan of SCFC and as such because they are the only party I know has the club's interests at heart am a member of the supporters trust.
- you still obviously do not understand the aims and purpose of a supporters trust. You really need to get on top of this. ive reiterated this point repeatedly and you arent a dull bloke so you are chosing to ignore it. Why would they have wanted or needed to put themselves up for sale under the previous regime? In the event of them selling maybe the trust would also have felt it wise to also, but as we know the sell outs and Americans prevented that happening through their deception | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:54 - Oct 15 with 731 views | Chief |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:43 - Oct 15 by BillyChong |
Great news, that must mean Joe will still be with us next season unless Leicester stump up major cash in January. And maybe we’ll add a couple of signings in the meantime. All hail our saviour Jake Silverstein. |
Ha ha yes. Quite telling he decided to post this tonight. Its obviously a pre-emptive propaganda spiel to set himself for tomorrow when he'll twist and interpret whatever happens with Rodon as being a masterstroke of the Americans.
Despite the fact that in reality we'll have lost the best the defender in the division & reinvested nothing & not strengthened our 11 at all. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:54 - Oct 15 with 730 views | BillyChong |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:15 - Oct 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Not being an experts did not stop you from saying it devalues the trust holding when it does not.
The 25% holding is pure fantasy. £4m short in the PL £1.6m short now. The members will not cough up anything other than irrelevent nominal sums. Voting is irrelevant. Your prespective is downright wierd after reading drivel on this forums previous ownership, no doubt, for years when all common sense was banned.
You are a Supporter of SCST not Swansea City. I have written off the SCST as they have nothing to offer the club. When the club hit a minor crisis in 2017 they had no money after 15 years of doing nothing. Action becme impossible as they had never had to act before. Doing nothing was highly profitable for them under HJ, but they forgot to put themselves up for sale as they do not have the knowledge to handle big sums of money. |
“The members will not cough up anything other than irrelevant nominal sums” - are you talking about the 27 or so yanks there? | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 00:37 - Oct 16 with 696 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:36 - Oct 15 by Garyjack |
Don't be drawn in by this idiot. He has a lot of history of posting on subjects that he thinks he's knowledgeable on, but a little scratch under the surface easily reveals that he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.
Investment in a company may well increase it's value. A loan to plug holes or debt (even if converted into equity) does not.
In simple terms, if you own a house worth £250k and someone loans you £50k to make improvements etc. Then it's safe to say your home will increase in value. But if you are behind on your mortgage payments, or need money to tide you over to pay that mortgage, if someone loans you £50k, then it doesn't mean your house is then worth £300k! As i've said, it's dgt73, a long term site clown! |
This post is irrefuatable proof that you are seriously short of a few mortagage payments. You house loan theory proves it. The £50,000 loan means you have a house worth £250,000 to live in and not livng on the streets looking for hand outs with your house repossessed. This loan means Swansea can continue trading and that means the Trust s shares are still worth something. Jeez you could not make it up. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 00:40 - Oct 16 with 692 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:54 - Oct 15 by BillyChong |
“The members will not cough up anything other than irrelevant nominal sums” - are you talking about the 27 or so yanks there? |
The 1000 plus member of the SCST of course who have allowed themselves to be led up the garden path. (the ones that paid the fee and bothered to vote). | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 19:26 - Oct 16 with 573 views | Garyjack |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 00:37 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This post is irrefuatable proof that you are seriously short of a few mortagage payments. You house loan theory proves it. The £50,000 loan means you have a house worth £250,000 to live in and not livng on the streets looking for hand outs with your house repossessed. This loan means Swansea can continue trading and that means the Trust s shares are still worth something. Jeez you could not make it up. |
This post is irrefuatable proof that you are seriously short of a few of a few brain cells!  | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 19:28 - Oct 16 with 571 views | magicdaps10 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 19:26 - Oct 16 by Garyjack |
This post is irrefuatable proof that you are seriously short of a few of a few brain cells! |
Leave him to it, always been a clown even under his former usernames. |  |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 20:25 - Oct 16 with 533 views | BillyChong |
In the order of £10m or so? Ha! Fool! | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 20:29 - Oct 16 with 532 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 19:28 - Oct 16 by magicdaps10 |
Leave him to it, always been a clown even under his former usernames. |
You guys are serial whingers. Its been a good window. You remember the Potter ones right?. Very quiet with poor players coming in.
4 very good signings on the day 3 them permanent and a bit of experience for the back three. No US loan no players and the manger told to use Declan John and McKay. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:08 - Oct 16 with 516 views | Garyjack |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 20:29 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You guys are serial whingers. Its been a good window. You remember the Potter ones right?. Very quiet with poor players coming in.
4 very good signings on the day 3 them permanent and a bit of experience for the back three. No US loan no players and the manger told to use Declan John and McKay. |
Errm? again. Wtf are you talking about? Who's whinging about our transfer window, signings or anything connected to them in this thread? Nutter alert!  | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:17 - Oct 16 with 497 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:08 - Oct 16 by Garyjack |
Errm? again. Wtf are you talking about? Who's whinging about our transfer window, signings or anything connected to them in this thread? Nutter alert! |
US loan put to good use. New Welsh money = £0 from 21% shareholder as expected. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:22 - Oct 16 with 491 views | BillyChong |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:17 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
US loan put to good use. New Welsh money = £0 from 21% shareholder as expected. |
The money that was going to allow us to play hardball when negotiating the sale of Rodon? | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:50 - Oct 16 with 473 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:22 - Oct 16 by BillyChong |
The money that was going to allow us to play hardball when negotiating the sale of Rodon? |
£15m is not a bad deal under these circumstances. You can hardball all day but if the buyer has an upper limit they will not cross it. I am satisfied at the work of Winter. He coud hve walked away from a deal.
There was no one available to pay more unfortuantely. Matty Cash £16m Karlan Grant £16m. Eze only £20m Fees down everywhere with couple of exceptions. Good signings made. One out four in. Cooper only signs quality from what I can see. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:12 - Oct 16 with 466 views | Garyjack |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:17 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
US loan put to good use. New Welsh money = £0 from 21% shareholder as expected. |
And i'm sure you have evidence that that the sell outs also invested? They are still shareholders after all! Nah, i didn't think so! | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:23 - Oct 16 with 456 views | BillyChong |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:50 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
£15m is not a bad deal under these circumstances. You can hardball all day but if the buyer has an upper limit they will not cross it. I am satisfied at the work of Winter. He coud hve walked away from a deal.
There was no one available to pay more unfortuantely. Matty Cash £16m Karlan Grant £16m. Eze only £20m Fees down everywhere with couple of exceptions. Good signings made. One out four in. Cooper only signs quality from what I can see. |
He could have walked away, Rodon was not in the last year of us contract. It’s opened the doors for other clubs in January who can see how desperate this lot are for the dollar. | | | |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:42 - Oct 16 with 438 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 22:23 - Oct 16 by BillyChong |
He could have walked away, Rodon was not in the last year of us contract. It’s opened the doors for other clubs in January who can see how desperate this lot are for the dollar. |
Swansea have to wheel and deal and they have done it well for the first time in several years. Three real good permanent signings with one out. Experience added to the back three with Brandon Cooper joining the mix next season. Rodon was alway the most probable sale with Cabango and cooper coming through the ranks. Perhaps Cooper will be undersold at £15m in two years time. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 23:10 - Oct 16 with 422 views | Chief |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 21:50 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
£15m is not a bad deal under these circumstances. You can hardball all day but if the buyer has an upper limit they will not cross it. I am satisfied at the work of Winter. He coud hve walked away from a deal.
There was no one available to pay more unfortuantely. Matty Cash £16m Karlan Grant £16m. Eze only £20m Fees down everywhere with couple of exceptions. Good signings made. One out four in. Cooper only signs quality from what I can see. |
For a start its only £11mill guaranteed.
And as you say Winter could have walked away. There's another window in a few months, Rodons value will not have diminished by then.
So you've just named 3 players there, include Benrahma if you what who've gone for more than Rodon and to less wealthy and successful clubs than Spurs.
Spin it anyway you want it was a poor fee for Rodon and makes a mockery of your nonsense about us being in a good negotiating position due to this loan of unknown value we've had.
The other 4 signings are decent on the whole.
Fact is even without the Rodon money we were up on transfer fees by a decent margin anyway. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 23:40 - Oct 16 with 412 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 23:10 - Oct 16 by Chief |
For a start its only £11mill guaranteed.
And as you say Winter could have walked away. There's another window in a few months, Rodons value will not have diminished by then.
So you've just named 3 players there, include Benrahma if you what who've gone for more than Rodon and to less wealthy and successful clubs than Spurs.
Spin it anyway you want it was a poor fee for Rodon and makes a mockery of your nonsense about us being in a good negotiating position due to this loan of unknown value we've had.
The other 4 signings are decent on the whole.
Fact is even without the Rodon money we were up on transfer fees by a decent margin anyway. |
Swansea had two choices. Reject £15m and carry on balancing the books with the US loan money. Perhaps only Joel Latibaudiere would have come in. Rodon would have been a little unhappy but got on with it I suspect. The club might have got £5m extra in January from Liecester perhaps.
What they did was the alternative. Bennett as a staight 1.81m tall replacement was avaialabe for free and Manning for pennies. As luck had it they were available. Janaury is difficult and these players would have gone to Sheffield Wednesday or Blackburn.
I m happy with Silverstein and happy with Winters. You and your chums are never happy but I think Cooper is happy too. Three very good players in plus a loan and no mess ups. Brandon Cooper can carry on his development. | |
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| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 00:10 - Oct 17 with 399 views | Chief |
| Value of the Silverstein and US loan and conditions. on 23:40 - Oct 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Swansea had two choices. Reject £15m and carry on balancing the books with the US loan money. Perhaps only Joel Latibaudiere would have come in. Rodon would have been a little unhappy but got on with it I suspect. The club might have got £5m extra in January from Liecester perhaps.
What they did was the alternative. Bennett as a staight 1.81m tall replacement was avaialabe for free and Manning for pennies. As luck had it they were available. Janaury is difficult and these players would have gone to Sheffield Wednesday or Blackburn.
I m happy with Silverstein and happy with Winters. You and your chums are never happy but I think Cooper is happy too. Three very good players in plus a loan and no mess ups. Brandon Cooper can carry on his development. |
Yes and that first paragraph is a very viable option (without the loan bit which frankly isn't needed).
I like the Bennett signing and Manning seems a bargain got no qualms about them. But obviously Bennett wouldn't have been needed if Rodon was still with us&Manning while a good signing will add depth, but hardly crucial. So option 1 a no brainer.
No one can be happy with Silverstein until we know what he actually brings. A mysterious loan with unknown stipulations and some poor soundbytes don't quite cut it unfortunately.
Why are you happy with Winter? He's brought in some unspectacular but steady and cheap signings but:
- He did not get the fee we should have for Rodon (despite apparently having wiggleroom from fairy godmother Silversteins cash).
- He annoyed our manager who felt the need to go public by not only not consulting him on the sale of the player but only informing Cooper of it by text. On match day.
- There have been some significant movement's in the boardroom whereby the clubs the largest shareholder resigned as a director&others joined the board. There may well be nothing untoward in this at all, but why alienate the fans and keep us in the dark&have us find out from the companies house website? The to engage the trust and local media is another own goal.
Early days but all avoidable and i hope he learns fast. He hasn't helped himself. | |
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