| HS2 19:12 - Feb 11 with 2458 views | waynekerr55 |
Now I'm no fan of Boris, but what are people's thoughts on HS2 being given the go ahead.
Given that the likes of Farage, JRM and the sort were against it, is that a relatively strong argument in favour?
Discuss! |  |
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| HS2 on 19:17 - Feb 11 with 2049 views | Neath_Jack |
Don't care a toss.
Life is waaaaay to short. |  |
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| HS2 on 19:18 - Feb 11 with 2044 views | jack2jack |
Shocking waste of money! |  | | |
| HS2 on 19:18 - Feb 11 with 2045 views | LeonWasGod |
Same as the lagoon. In favour but only if developers aren’t pulling a fast one and it is value for money. I’d prefer them to upgrade the existing network though given the choice; we’re poor relations to many of our former EU partners when it comes to rail infrastructure (and let’s not start on services). |  | | |
| HS2 on 19:27 - Feb 11 with 2015 views | LeonWasGod |
| HS2 on 19:17 - Feb 11 by Neath_Jack |
Don't care a toss.
Life is waaaaay to short. |
Even more reason to get from Birmingham to Leeds more quickly 
Yeah, it’ll be feck all use to any of us over here. I’m sure the WG are planning on upgrading a north-south Wales bridle path soon though. | | | |
| HS2 on 19:29 - Feb 11 with 2007 views | Neath_Jack |
| HS2 on 19:27 - Feb 11 by LeonWasGod |
Even more reason to get from Birmingham to Leeds more quickly
Yeah, it’ll be feck all use to any of us over here. I’m sure the WG are planning on upgrading a north-south Wales bridle path soon though. |
Other than shooting the shit on here about it, and maybe the odd mention in a passing conversation, let's be honest, it doesn't make no odds to us peasants in South Wales. | |
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| HS2 on 20:28 - Feb 11 with 1960 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Taken from elsewhere:
-HS2 prices will not be charged at a premium over the existing fast services, as they replace the existing fast services. This is stipulated in the hybrid bill, and is law.
- The project aim is to free up commuter, regional and freight capacity on existing lines, so the major beneficiaries will be commuters into London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds etc and regional services. This can be done by either adding new tracks to the existing routes to run the fast services on them instead, or by moving them to a new route. Adding tracks to existing routes has been costed at a higher cost than HS2.
- HS2 enables the reopening of branches and other routes not deemed suitable today, as one of the major barriers to doing so now is the lack of capacity at the lines and stations these routes would join.
- The £100bn+ cost includes the worst-case contingencies. It likely won't cost anywhere near as much, but it could if mismanaged.
- It's never been about speed, it's about increasing capacity. The name is definitely a PR disaster. In fact, HS1 was only called so towards the end of the project, and was known as the Channel Tunnel Rail Link beforehand.
- Despite speed not being the primary aim, it will be the fastest steel-wheel-on-rail railway outside of China. This is because the costs of doing so were negligible over a lower speed alignment, and the project is designed to be future-proofed with a potential upper speed limit of 400kmph/250mph.
- Part of the higher costs compared to other high speed railways comes down to the usage. Due to the capacity demands we have, HS2 will be the most intensely used stretch of high speed rail on earth, with 18 paths per hour in each direction. [Post edited 11 Feb 2020 20:29]
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| HS2 on 21:17 - Feb 11 with 1928 views | Catullus |
I've seen several news reports from oop North and most people they asked were against it, they were suggesting improving the East/West links was more important than taking 20/30 minutes off a North/South journey. One man said it takes him longer going from Manchester to Leeds than from Manchester to London.
It matters little to us in ancient Britain, the Senedd will soon be closing down the M4, turfing it over and reintroducing the horse and cart in their drive to be green....but that's only from Llantrisant, Cardiff obviously needs a Motorway which they are increasing to 8 lanes. |  |
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| HS2 on 22:36 - Feb 11 with 1876 views | Best_loser |
Waste of money |  | | |
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| HS2 on 22:41 - Feb 11 with 1870 views | LeonWasGod |
| HS2 on 19:29 - Feb 11 by Neath_Jack |
Other than shooting the shit on here about it, and maybe the odd mention in a passing conversation, let's be honest, it doesn't make no odds to us peasants in South Wales. |
Yep, no odds at all Neathy. Electrification to Swansea (or ideally Pembroke/Fishguard) on the other hand would have allowed them to streamline engine purchases and future proof services down here, but feck us hey? | | | |
| HS2 on 22:50 - Feb 11 with 1856 views | jack2jack |
£220,000 per metre of track,get your head around that figure,and will end up being way over the current estimate.
By the time it's finished we will still be about 80 years behind other countries like Japan.
I don't believe , the hype, in terms of cost justification.
We are screaming out for hospitals schools, better rail and road links which will serve the majority of the population, this scheme is simply not justifiable in my opinion. | | | |
| HS2 on 00:38 - Feb 12 with 1812 views | BrynCartwright |
What an absolute clusterpuck!
A project proposed by the twaattish Brown government, and jumped on by successive Tory administrations.
If they built the tracks on existing rail infrastructure I wouldn't mind it so much, but to destroy many ancient woodlands for new tracks is a loss too huge to consent..
Build it on existing tracks. Divert trains around other routes.
Nobody in Wales will benefit from it at all. |  |
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| HS2 on 07:44 - Feb 12 with 1715 views | westside |
Not good for wales.
Boris won't be around when it's overruns and costs fortunes more in the future so they don't give a feck and just want to show their doing something for their new tory northern voters and of course it will benefit London as they wouldn't do it otherwise. |  | | |
| HS2 on 09:27 - Feb 12 with 1678 views | 1983 |
Try fixing the old one first before building a new one |  |
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| HS2 on 09:31 - Feb 12 with 1674 views | Catullus |
| HS2 on 22:50 - Feb 11 by jack2jack |
£220,000 per metre of track,get your head around that figure,and will end up being way over the current estimate.
By the time it's finished we will still be about 80 years behind other countries like Japan.
I don't believe , the hype, in terms of cost justification.
We are screaming out for hospitals schools, better rail and road links which will serve the majority of the population, this scheme is simply not justifiable in my opinion. |
That's a good point, this scheme is already 10 years in and given the way things get planned in this country it will be out of date by the time it's finished.
In 2015 the price was said to be 56 billion but in just 5 years the cost is now said to be 106 billion and will almost certainly rise substantially again. That's just the financial side, the damage to the environment, ancient woodlands etc is also huge.
There has to be a better option, this looks very much like a vanity project, something Bojo is pushing so in years to come he can say "I did that" | |
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| HS2 on 09:35 - Feb 12 with 1669 views | gadgetuk |
| HS2 on 20:28 - Feb 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Taken from elsewhere:
-HS2 prices will not be charged at a premium over the existing fast services, as they replace the existing fast services. This is stipulated in the hybrid bill, and is law.
- The project aim is to free up commuter, regional and freight capacity on existing lines, so the major beneficiaries will be commuters into London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds etc and regional services. This can be done by either adding new tracks to the existing routes to run the fast services on them instead, or by moving them to a new route. Adding tracks to existing routes has been costed at a higher cost than HS2.
- HS2 enables the reopening of branches and other routes not deemed suitable today, as one of the major barriers to doing so now is the lack of capacity at the lines and stations these routes would join.
- The £100bn+ cost includes the worst-case contingencies. It likely won't cost anywhere near as much, but it could if mismanaged.
- It's never been about speed, it's about increasing capacity. The name is definitely a PR disaster. In fact, HS1 was only called so towards the end of the project, and was known as the Channel Tunnel Rail Link beforehand.
- Despite speed not being the primary aim, it will be the fastest steel-wheel-on-rail railway outside of China. This is because the costs of doing so were negligible over a lower speed alignment, and the project is designed to be future-proofed with a potential upper speed limit of 400kmph/250mph.
- Part of the higher costs compared to other high speed railways comes down to the usage. Due to the capacity demands we have, HS2 will be the most intensely used stretch of high speed rail on earth, with 18 paths per hour in each direction. [Post edited 11 Feb 2020 20:29]
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The information posted above is what should have originally used to sell the concept of HS2 rather than a faster way of travelling between London and Birmingham which tended to benefit people who commute into London.
The provision of a completely new infrastructure for High Speed rail frees up a huge amount of capacity on existing lines, allowing for more local services to operate and the move of a huge amount of freight from road to rail.
In fact, there are a number of arguments still to be resolved around where HS2 uses existing rail infrastructure as it will have a negative effect on local services as the priority will be the high speed services.
I was wholly against the concept initially and I think vast sums of money have been wasted, but the end result will be positive.
My main issue is that there should also be an east west high speed service.
I also think that as part of HS2 they should take a fresh look at Heathrow expansion, with a view to creating a 2nd hub at Birmingham rather than adding more planes above london | | | |
| HS2 on 09:45 - Feb 12 with 1656 views | BarrySwan |
I'd have thought that it would make more sense reopening every inch of lines and stations closed under the Beeching cuts that haven't already been built on or otherwise destroyed in order to connect up villages, suburbs and smaller towns isolated from the railway network but currently being swamped by over development without any improvement in roads or other transport schemes to cater for these zillions of new houses.
I'm at a total loss to see how this huge project will benefit local communities, ordinary people trying to go about their everyday business or general travel either in the communities that this line passes through but won't be stopping at as it whizzes straight through or the rest of us in other areas for the country who will be paying for it who also get absolutely nothing from it whilst local transport infrastructures are already more than struggling to cope.
The final kicker is that extremely well paid people who live in London will be able to cash in their massively priced London houses buy large houses further from London at a fraction of the price and commute everyday having pushed up local house prices massively to unaffordable levels for those who don't travel to London other perhaps than once a year for a weekender anyway.
Its a lose lose for all those except anyone enjoying slightly faster times to and from London on a regular basis. | | | |
| HS2 on 10:59 - Feb 12 with 1631 views | Jinxy |
They should heed the walking before running scenario, instead of political point scoring. Given the issues regarding reliability, schedule adherence, lack of seating/facilities, ageing rolling stock/infrastructure, low levels of automation, poor schedules for remote places and so on the cash would be better spent on getting those issues fixed first, nationally. If I were on a daily commute from the midlands to London, I would be more concerned with knowing exactly what time I would get there/home, have 99.9% confidence there wouldn't be any issues etc. rather than get there quicker. I read somewhere that in Japan, they were considering the train not even stopping at stations, just slowing down (the carriage at the rear would move to a siding/platform, then pick up a new one if you get my drift). Not sure if they implemented it, but they were thinking that way because they had achieved all the above? Never been there so hearsay perhaps. |  | | |
| HS2 on 11:03 - Feb 12 with 1630 views | BytholWyn |
Whatever the merits and de-merits of HS2 (and there are good arguments both for against presented on here), improving transport infrastructure is a fundamental given for long-term economic well-being, especially if those improvements extend beyond the South East. However, the idea that HS2 will re-balance the UK economy, is laughable. It may help re-balance the English economy, but will have an adverse effect on Wales, south Wales especially.
This wouldn't be the case if rail was devolved of course, as every pound spent on HS2 would come with an automatic proportionate financial commitment to spend on Welsh rail - as it does currently with regard to Scottish and Northern Irish rail. But, yet again, we have those on this forum, suffering from Skokholm syndrome, who in spite of this manifest unfairness, somehow find a way of knocking the Welsh government. Talk about a lack of self-awareness. |  | | |
| HS2 on 19:22 - Feb 12 with 1508 views | SPboy |
Meanwhile in the South Wales powerhouse the first minister procrastinates over building the M4 relief road causing misery for thousands of commuters at least twice a day.
In an interview today he stated “hopefully the commuters will get fed up of the traffic jams & turn off at Cardiff Gate and head to Cardiff Bay. There they will be able to reduce their commute and stimulate the economy by buying some of the abundance of empty flats in the dreary & souless bay. One day the children of the bay will grow up to be Cardiff City fans & fill up the empty blue (and red) seats at Legoland”. Welsh Labour doing their bit for the economy |  | | |
| HS2 on 07:09 - Feb 13 with 1438 views | Cooperman |
| HS2 on 22:50 - Feb 11 by jack2jack |
£220,000 per metre of track,get your head around that figure,and will end up being way over the current estimate.
By the time it's finished we will still be about 80 years behind other countries like Japan.
I don't believe , the hype, in terms of cost justification.
We are screaming out for hospitals schools, better rail and road links which will serve the majority of the population, this scheme is simply not justifiable in my opinion. |
There absolutely is a need for HS2 and many other infrastructure programmes for that matter. You mention Japan - I took the Shinkansen this morning from downtown Tokyo to Takasaki which is a journey similar to that of central London to Birmingham and it took 50 minutes. My gripe is with the escalating costs and the tendering process; my bet is that it's as fair and transparent as the building of Landore. Quite how an initial budget of c.40bn can become 100bn is indicative of sheer incompetence. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 7:10]
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| HS2 on 08:38 - Feb 13 with 1393 views | Vincent_Vega |
| HS2 on 07:09 - Feb 13 by Cooperman |
There absolutely is a need for HS2 and many other infrastructure programmes for that matter. You mention Japan - I took the Shinkansen this morning from downtown Tokyo to Takasaki which is a journey similar to that of central London to Birmingham and it took 50 minutes. My gripe is with the escalating costs and the tendering process; my bet is that it's as fair and transparent as the building of Landore. Quite how an initial budget of c.40bn can become 100bn is indicative of sheer incompetence. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 7:10]
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And this is why there's been decades between big infrastructure projects, too many greedy phuckers with their noses in the trough and a government too naive (or run by said greedy phuckers) to see it. |  |
| Boycott Shampoo......Demand Real Poo!!! |
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| HS2 on 08:41 - Feb 13 with 1391 views | waynekerr55 |
| HS2 on 07:09 - Feb 13 by Cooperman |
There absolutely is a need for HS2 and many other infrastructure programmes for that matter. You mention Japan - I took the Shinkansen this morning from downtown Tokyo to Takasaki which is a journey similar to that of central London to Birmingham and it took 50 minutes. My gripe is with the escalating costs and the tendering process; my bet is that it's as fair and transparent as the building of Landore. Quite how an initial budget of c.40bn can become 100bn is indicative of sheer incompetence. [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 7:10]
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From what I've read they massively under estimated property values and also weren't thorough with the soil surveys.
Incompetence or skullduggery to get the project off the ground | |
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| HS2 on 15:56 - Feb 13 with 1303 views | A_Fans_Dad |
By the time it is finished it will be far cheaper to fly than go via HS2 based on current long distance rail prices. | | | |
| HS2 on 17:14 - Feb 13 with 1267 views | Catullus |
| HS2 on 11:03 - Feb 12 by BytholWyn |
Whatever the merits and de-merits of HS2 (and there are good arguments both for against presented on here), improving transport infrastructure is a fundamental given for long-term economic well-being, especially if those improvements extend beyond the South East. However, the idea that HS2 will re-balance the UK economy, is laughable. It may help re-balance the English economy, but will have an adverse effect on Wales, south Wales especially.
This wouldn't be the case if rail was devolved of course, as every pound spent on HS2 would come with an automatic proportionate financial commitment to spend on Welsh rail - as it does currently with regard to Scottish and Northern Irish rail. But, yet again, we have those on this forum, suffering from Skokholm syndrome, who in spite of this manifest unfairness, somehow find a way of knocking the Welsh government. Talk about a lack of self-awareness. |
You obviously haven't noticed this but the uselsss lot in Westminster get every bit as much stick as the useless lot in the Senedd.
Maybe there's a lack of self awareness in defending the Senedd despite their pitiful record on devolved matters? | |
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| HS2 on 19:12 - Feb 13 with 1231 views | Kilkennyjack |
Dear England
Next time you refer to us as sheepshagging Welsh scroungers, please bear in mind the £6 billion and rising that we are contributing towards your unnecessary vanity project because Labour and Tory MPs deemed us unfit to run our own railways
Yours sincerely
Wales [Post edited 13 Feb 2020 19:13]
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