| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet 10:40 - Sep 16 with 2236 views | SwansIndependent |
 There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet 16th Sep 2021 10:38Another draw, but more realistically more signs of improvement as Swansea City played their second home game in four days. Sadly it resulted in another 0-0. You can’t argue with the playing style, it creates chances for players to score goals. The only issue is the players needed to score goals left their shooting boots at home.  0
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:07 - Sep 16 with 916 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Too true. | | | |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:53 - Sep 16 with 859 views | Badlands |
It's not far off.
I'd give 6 more games to get a settled first choice team working together but I think we'll see results sooner than that. |  |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:55 - Sep 16 with 851 views | Dr_Parnassus |
10 games was what many were saying when he was appointed.
10th game is next against Luton. |  |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:58 - Sep 16 with 843 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:55 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
10 games was what many were saying when he was appointed.
10th game is next against Luton. |
10 games until what though?
What needs to happen after the 10th game?
Is it time to start booing?
Is it time to start slagging?
Is it time to sack the manager?
~Or is it simply time to reflect and learn and give the manager more time? |  |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:01 - Sep 16 with 832 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 12:58 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
10 games until what though?
What needs to happen after the 10th game?
Is it time to start booing?
Is it time to start slagging?
Is it time to sack the manager?
~Or is it simply time to reflect and learn and give the manager more time? |
I don’t know, you will have to ask the ones who said they would give him 10 games I guess. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:26 - Sep 16 with 800 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:01 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t know, you will have to ask the ones who said they would give him 10 games I guess. |
I don't know who there are.
I obviously thought it might be you, as you are the one bringing it up all the time.
Whoever said 10 games, most probably meant 10 league games. I wouldn't have thought they would be counting cup matches.
If they are, then they'll be a bit more upbeat, as we have smashed both team we have come up against and now are able to pit ourselves against a solid premier league team who will want to play in the same way as us. If we can get a result there, I think most will be very appreciative of our early season cup run. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:30 - Sep 16 with 789 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:26 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
I don't know who there are.
I obviously thought it might be you, as you are the one bringing it up all the time.
Whoever said 10 games, most probably meant 10 league games. I wouldn't have thought they would be counting cup matches.
If they are, then they'll be a bit more upbeat, as we have smashed both team we have come up against and now are able to pit ourselves against a solid premier league team who will want to play in the same way as us. If we can get a result there, I think most will be very appreciative of our early season cup run. |
Not sure, didn’t make a note of the usernames. Seemed to be the general consensus though, 10 games.
As for what happens after 10 games, again you would have to ask them. But you don’t go from being happy with a manager to sacking him the next day, there is an in between period where performances are judged and if they continue to be poor it gradually ends up in a decision being made.
I would imagine they mean after 10 games to get his team up to speed, that “in between period” begins where a prolonged period of poor results would meet the same fate as any other manager we have had.
That’s my take on what they meant. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:32 - Sep 16 with 791 views | Thornburyswan |
Interesting piece Keith & about right I think - clearly the Cardiff game will be a critical test but in reality that match is all about the result & very little about our ‘entertainment/passing/possession’ stats.
As you say we have 5 matches before then, two very tough away games at Fulham & Brighton and the other three against teams we should be looking to pick something up - if we lose the 5 then we’d go into the derby in the bottom 3 & suspect it might be squeaky bum time for RM.
On the other hand a couple of wins plus a good showing in the derby & thinks should calm down a tad. | | | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:33 - Sep 16 with 789 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:30 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure, didn’t make a note of the usernames. Seemed to be the general consensus though, 10 games.
As for what happens after 10 games, again you would have to ask them. But you don’t go from being happy with a manager to sacking him the next day, there is an in between period where performances are judged and if they continue to be poor it gradually ends up in a decision being made.
I would imagine they mean after 10 games to get his team up to speed, that “in between period” begins where a prolonged period of poor results would meet the same fate as any other manager we have had.
That’s my take on what they meant. |
OK, but as I keep on saying...
Results are different to performances.
You continue to concentrate on the actual result, whereas others, like me are more concerned with performances.
Continued improvement, never mind how small, will eventually positively affect results.
How long that takes is not important.
What is important is that it happens. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:37 - Sep 16 with 779 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:33 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
OK, but as I keep on saying...
Results are different to performances.
You continue to concentrate on the actual result, whereas others, like me are more concerned with performances.
Continued improvement, never mind how small, will eventually positively affect results.
How long that takes is not important.
What is important is that it happens. |
The result is usually a direct consequence of performance.
People’s view of performance is different as they have differing standards and ideas of what constitutes a good performance.
Some people see 80% possession as a good performance regardless of how many clear cut chances are carved out. Others see 30% possession and far more clear cut chances than the opposition as a good performance.
An actual good performance however will usually show itself in the results over a fair sample size. 10 games again seems a fair sample size to show performance/result conversion. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:41 - Sep 16 with 774 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:37 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
The result is usually a direct consequence of performance.
People’s view of performance is different as they have differing standards and ideas of what constitutes a good performance.
Some people see 80% possession as a good performance regardless of how many clear cut chances are carved out. Others see 30% possession and far more clear cut chances than the opposition as a good performance.
An actual good performance however will usually show itself in the results over a fair sample size. 10 games again seems a fair sample size to show performance/result conversion. |
Not necessarily a direct consequence at all.
I'm not saying performance have been excellent.
I'm saying that they are improving and that's all I care about tbh.
There you go with the 10 game thing again. Thought that was someone else's idea. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:43 - Sep 16 with 766 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:41 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
Not necessarily a direct consequence at all.
I'm not saying performance have been excellent.
I'm saying that they are improving and that's all I care about tbh.
There you go with the 10 game thing again. Thought that was someone else's idea. |
Of course it will, it’s not up for debate.
The table is pretty much always arranged over the course of the season in order of the best performers to the worst. You never get the worst performing team in the league winning it, you never get the best performing team being bottom.
Yes, 10 games seemed to be the general consensus. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:56 - Sep 16 with 755 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:43 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course it will, it’s not up for debate.
The table is pretty much always arranged over the course of the season in order of the best performers to the worst. You never get the worst performing team in the league winning it, you never get the best performing team being bottom.
Yes, 10 games seemed to be the general consensus. |
And that will become apparent, over the course of the season, not after 6 games.
Thanks for finally agreeing. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:58 - Sep 16 with 749 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:56 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
And that will become apparent, over the course of the season, not after 6 games.
Thanks for finally agreeing. |
Yes, over the course of it, not at the end of it. As I said 10 games seems to be a fair sample size for clubs to be arranged by performance.
What am I agreeing with exactly?
Which 6 games are you referring to? | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:00 - Sep 16 with 751 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:58 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes, over the course of it, not at the end of it. As I said 10 games seems to be a fair sample size for clubs to be arranged by performance.
What am I agreeing with exactly?
Which 6 games are you referring to? |
OK, if 10 games the deadline you deem fair then that's your prerogative.
Many would prefer to just use the eye test and see how we go in general. No deadlines, no pressure, just let the team do what they need to do. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:04 - Sep 16 with 746 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:00 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
OK, if 10 games the deadline you deem fair then that's your prerogative.
Many would prefer to just use the eye test and see how we go in general. No deadlines, no pressure, just let the team do what they need to do. |
Unfortunately football is all about pressure and fair timescales to return performances and results, it’s part and parcel of the game and has been for a long time.
Ask Bob Bradley.
Strange you think it doesn’t apply here. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:08 - Sep 16 with 742 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:04 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Unfortunately football is all about pressure and fair timescales to return performances and results, it’s part and parcel of the game and has been for a long time.
Ask Bob Bradley.
Strange you think it doesn’t apply here. |
Doesn't apply here as I see this season as a transitional one.
I don't care if we finish one place outside the relegation, as I've said before.
I felt the same in Potter's first season too.
I like the way we are trying to play and I can see performances improving. That's good enough for me to trust the manager to continue in the same vane. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:11 - Sep 16 with 732 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:08 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
Doesn't apply here as I see this season as a transitional one.
I don't care if we finish one place outside the relegation, as I've said before.
I felt the same in Potter's first season too.
I like the way we are trying to play and I can see performances improving. That's good enough for me to trust the manager to continue in the same vane. |
There is no reason for it to be a transitional one.
Just do what other managers seem able to do and change the style while getting respectable results in keeping with the calibre of players. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:13 - Sep 16 with 730 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:11 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
There is no reason for it to be a transitional one.
Just do what other managers seem able to do and change the style while getting respectable results in keeping with the calibre of players. |
All other managers are able to do that?
I can see you would have been one of the ones who would have campaigned for Alex Ferguson to be sacked.
That would have gone well. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:17 - Sep 16 with 725 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 13:43 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course it will, it’s not up for debate.
The table is pretty much always arranged over the course of the season in order of the best performers to the worst. You never get the worst performing team in the league winning it, you never get the best performing team being bottom.
Yes, 10 games seemed to be the general consensus. |
its good you decide whats up for debate and whats not - you should start all the topics
If we get solid consistent performances of wnough quality then the resu;ts will take care of themselves - if all we care about is the result of each individual game and not the oerfirmaxe then we head down a slippery slope
Over the season I will agree with you but not the first 10 games which you keep spouting out
Personally I wouldnt have counted cup matches either ut my opinion after the forst 10 games is probably too many unanswered questions - however now the transfer window has shhut I'm inclined to give him 10 games from there but I would expect us to win at least 3 of next 10 and be on an upward trend
If not its probably smething they should look at |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:18 - Sep 16 with 722 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:13 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
All other managers are able to do that?
I can see you would have been one of the ones who would have campaigned for Alex Ferguson to be sacked.
That would have gone well. |
I am referring to our managers, no point in comparing to other clubs as they are different set ups and environments.
We know from experience that at our club all managers that have wanted to come in and change the style have been able to do it simultaneously with good results, many of them not having the luxury of the spend Martin has had in relation to the rest of the league.
Seems ridiculous to write a whole season off when there clearly is no need to. If others can do it then it seems odd than Martin can’t, unless we are are suggesting he isn’t the same calibre of manager of ones we have had previously.
I find it incredibly patronising people suggesting Martin needs so much time. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:20 - Sep 16 with 719 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:17 - Sep 16 by PatchesOHoulihan |
its good you decide whats up for debate and whats not - you should start all the topics
If we get solid consistent performances of wnough quality then the resu;ts will take care of themselves - if all we care about is the result of each individual game and not the oerfirmaxe then we head down a slippery slope
Over the season I will agree with you but not the first 10 games which you keep spouting out
Personally I wouldnt have counted cup matches either ut my opinion after the forst 10 games is probably too many unanswered questions - however now the transfer window has shhut I'm inclined to give him 10 games from there but I would expect us to win at least 3 of next 10 and be on an upward trend
If not its probably smething they should look at |
Facts are not up for debate.
It’s ridiculous to suggest that leagues don’t arrange themselves from the best performing teams to the worst performing teams.
Ludicrous to suggest anything else.
After 7 games, Fulham are top, WBA are second and Bournemouth are third. These were the pre season favourites.
In the bottom 3 we have Peterborough and Blackpool who were favourites for the drop.
This is no bizarre coincidence. [Post edited 16 Sep 2021 14:23]
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:30 - Sep 16 with 699 views | jackrmee |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:18 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
I am referring to our managers, no point in comparing to other clubs as they are different set ups and environments.
We know from experience that at our club all managers that have wanted to come in and change the style have been able to do it simultaneously with good results, many of them not having the luxury of the spend Martin has had in relation to the rest of the league.
Seems ridiculous to write a whole season off when there clearly is no need to. If others can do it then it seems odd than Martin can’t, unless we are are suggesting he isn’t the same calibre of manager of ones we have had previously.
I find it incredibly patronising people suggesting Martin needs so much time. |
You are comparing to our managers over the past 25 years.
Do you honestly think we've had the same setup and environments over those 25 years? If not, then comparing our managers is exactly the same as comparing other managers. Pointless.
You simply want to discredit our new manager and show him to be some sort of failure and to be different to alll our managers over the past 25 years.
The only one suggesting that he is a lower calibre of manager is people like you and Andy Cole. Yet, you will now tll me to "quote, quote, quote" where you have said it.
THere are no quotes because you say it subtley.
It's not difficult for people to see through you.
Why should you feel patronised about other people's opinions of Russell Martin? Let alone "incredibly".
Stop being so fake. If you don't like the choice of manager or just don't like Russell Martin then you should just say, instead of trying so hard to find stats and results from the past in order to discredit him.
I'm sure people on here would take to you much better then.
If you have an agenda against the manager, just say and slyly pretending you are behind him, yet wanting to discredit him and slag him off every chance you get. | |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:37 - Sep 16 with 690 views | ItchySphincter |
People can deny it all they like but there’s a desperation to see Martin fail, not witnessed since the days of Garry Monk, and all because some people think it will support their view that Steve Cooper was an overachiever. He wasn’t and it doesn’t. Some fans we’ve got. 10 games FFS. |  |
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| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:39 - Sep 16 with 684 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| There will come a time for Russell Martin, but it’s nowhere near yet on 14:30 - Sep 16 by jackrmee |
You are comparing to our managers over the past 25 years.
Do you honestly think we've had the same setup and environments over those 25 years? If not, then comparing our managers is exactly the same as comparing other managers. Pointless.
You simply want to discredit our new manager and show him to be some sort of failure and to be different to alll our managers over the past 25 years.
The only one suggesting that he is a lower calibre of manager is people like you and Andy Cole. Yet, you will now tll me to "quote, quote, quote" where you have said it.
THere are no quotes because you say it subtley.
It's not difficult for people to see through you.
Why should you feel patronised about other people's opinions of Russell Martin? Let alone "incredibly".
Stop being so fake. If you don't like the choice of manager or just don't like Russell Martin then you should just say, instead of trying so hard to find stats and results from the past in order to discredit him.
I'm sure people on here would take to you much better then.
If you have an agenda against the manager, just say and slyly pretending you are behind him, yet wanting to discredit him and slag him off every chance you get. |
The environment over the last 25 years has been very similar yes, it’s seen a fair bit of continuity.
Which manager under these owners has struggled to change the style and get results simultaneously? The only one I can think of was Bob Bradley and they sacked him after 11 games. Everyone else was able to do so.
I am not discrediting anyone. I am not criticising his character, I am factually assessing the fact that we are 20th in the league after spending millions on players he wants. Of the players that stayed were part of the team that were 4th last year. These are just the facts.
Where have I suggested the manager is a lower calibre than other ones? I am holding him to the same standards as all of them, it is you that seem to be giving him a whole season to write off before he is able to get results.
There are no quotes because I didn’t say it. It’s amazing how many times you accuse me of saying something only to then say there aren’t any quotes because I didn’t say it.
I said I think it’s patronising that people think Martin needs so much more time than others. I didn’t say I felt patronised. I would if I was Martin, a bit like joining a race and someone putting my starting blocks halfway down the track with everyone else’s back at the start line, I would assume they don’t think I’m as good.
Why am I being fake? My views are clear. You are being fake as you keep making up what people say, daily. You do go on to admit that they didn’t say it, but still you should stop doing that. It’s not very honest. | |
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