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Villla - The timekeeping! 16:39 - Jan 3 with 2599 viewsPinnerPaul

Just watched the 90' through

Added time 1st half

Kodja Injury = 1
Lumley injury = 6 1/2
QPR Goal celebs = 1
Pav injury + Villa subs x 2 = 2
QPR Sub = 1
Villa Goal = 1
QPR Sub = 1
Villa Sub = 1/2

I make that 14. Clearly ref has not added anything on for goal celebs nor the timewasting.

Have to say didn't see much wrong with us timewasting wise in 90' - nowhere near justifying the levels of angst on HERE about it!

Added time - he actually played 13 - we made a sub that took a minute, given he's booked both Lumley and Bidwell for timewasting - he's added on 1 more minute for that - that seems fair to me.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 18:20 - Jan 3 with 2143 viewsdanehoop

How dare you come on here and write informative fact based rationale posts!!

Never knowingly understood

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 20:57 - Jan 3 with 1939 viewsFrankRightguard

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:11 - Jan 3 with 1850 viewssmegma

Villla - The timekeeping! on 18:20 - Jan 3 by danehoop

How dare you come on here and write informative fact based rationale posts!!


Or sticking up for a ref who was pony.

The fourth official indicated 11 minutes would be played. He played nigh on 30% more.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:20 - Jan 3 with 1827 viewsLblock

And your view on Lumley headbutting Kodja's boot would be that Lumley should've been arrested for assault no doubt?

I appreciate you ref's are a tight knit bunch but come on, you've hardly ever concurred that a ref has been terrible on here once.

So as in the games themselves.... one man in black, green, yellow is right and 10's of thousands watching are wrong??????

Here for a good time..... not a long time

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:30 - Jan 3 with 1798 viewsCiderwithRsie

I thought that was an interesting run through from PP, and not an endorsement of the ref's approach to the foul on Lumley (which wasn't mentioned.)
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 02:33 - Jan 4 with 1693 viewstimcocking

Quite right, we don't really do much time wasting. Certainly less than every other team we play. Somebody tell me when we last had a player feigning injury?

.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:17 - Jan 4 with 1512 viewsfrancisbowles

I thought the ref was ok, he got 5.8 on here and 5 from Clive. Refs who were real 'pony' have fared much worse than that. I personally marked him higher than that.

Thought he kept control, was fair to both teams, got most decisions correct, the added time was reasonable and it was a normal championship experience.

The injury to Lumley, I don't think he really saw the foul and only took action when he saw the outcome. i.e. blood meaning there was contact and therefore a yellow for dangerous play. (Pinner will know the latest correct terminology.) There were similar missed incidents in other matches this week e.g. Shelvey on Pogba.

I've seen a lot worse than Mr Linnington.
[Post edited 4 Jan 2019 10:19]
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:21 - Jan 4 with 1494 viewsdaveB

do they normally add on 1 minute for goals and 1 min for subs, if that was the case we'd have at least 6 minutes every week just for the subs
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:23 - Jan 4 with 1494 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Villla - The timekeeping! on 02:33 - Jan 4 by timcocking

Quite right, we don't really do much time wasting. Certainly less than every other team we play. Somebody tell me when we last had a player feigning injury?

.


Furlong against Villa.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:35 - Jan 4 with 1477 viewsBlameMcLintock

Interesting and informative post, PP. No need to booooooooo

I was about to check the length of the pauses in the game myself, and 11 minutes looked about right. No idea about the 12th and 13th minute, though. Two yellow cards for timewasting doesn't warrant two extra minutes, does it? And isn't the rule on the subs 1/2 minute extra? You have to walk off the pitch veeeery slooooow to use significant more time than that.
[Post edited 4 Jan 2019 10:55]
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:43 - Jan 4 with 1466 viewsfrancisbowles

Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:35 - Jan 4 by BlameMcLintock

Interesting and informative post, PP. No need to booooooooo

I was about to check the length of the pauses in the game myself, and 11 minutes looked about right. No idea about the 12th and 13th minute, though. Two yellow cards for timewasting doesn't warrant two extra minutes, does it? And isn't the rule on the subs 1/2 minute extra? You have to walk off the pitch veeeery slooooow to use significant more time than that.
[Post edited 4 Jan 2019 10:55]


Two subs (1 each team) and two yellow cards in stoppage time (for time wasting). Additionally, Bos came on in the 90th minute when the added time may already have been decided. I don't think three extra was too far out.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:47 - Jan 4 with 1447 viewsHunterhoop

Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:21 - Jan 4 by daveB

do they normally add on 1 minute for goals and 1 min for subs, if that was the case we'd have at least 6 minutes every week just for the subs


It’s 30 seconds, isn’t it?! No idea why Pinner is saying one minute. That would be ludicrous, and clearly isn’t happening in other games, as you show.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 11:22 - Jan 4 with 1378 viewsTonto

Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:20 - Jan 3 by Lblock

And your view on Lumley headbutting Kodja's boot would be that Lumley should've been arrested for assault no doubt?

I appreciate you ref's are a tight knit bunch but come on, you've hardly ever concurred that a ref has been terrible on here once.

So as in the games themselves.... one man in black, green, yellow is right and 10's of thousands watching are wrong??????


I think has just demonstrated that in this case, yes there were wrong (and I'll add probably biased in their opinion at the same time).

Why stop now, just when I'm hating it

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 13:10 - Jan 4 with 1294 viewsjonno

I have also just watched the full 90 mins again and to be honest any time wasting we did was certainly no worse than what we see most weeks from other sides. The foul on Lumley was clearly a red card but it's not fair to blame the referee who would not have been able to see exactly what happened. I don't think he even realised there had been contact until he saw the extent of the injury at which point he dished out a yellow card which seems fair enough. We defended very well and Villa hardly had a decent chance on goal apart from the goals - we should be complimenting the team on that and their "game management" (slowing the game down) because that is something we have been poor at in recent times.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 13:49 - Jan 4 with 1204 viewsPinnerPaul

Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:11 - Jan 3 by smegma

Or sticking up for a ref who was pony.

The fourth official indicated 11 minutes would be played. He played nigh on 30% more.


Added time is ALWAYS the minimum that's added on - you sound like 'our' commentator on the match!

If it was the maximum, we could have taken 11 minutes with that sub!

That took a minute plus we were wasting time - criticise refs when required but you can't criticise this one on his timekeeping - except to say he maybe should have added on 14 minutes in the first place!
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 13:57 - Jan 4 with 1187 viewsPinnerPaul

Villla - The timekeeping! on 22:20 - Jan 3 by Lblock

And your view on Lumley headbutting Kodja's boot would be that Lumley should've been arrested for assault no doubt?

I appreciate you ref's are a tight knit bunch but come on, you've hardly ever concurred that a ref has been terrible on here once.

So as in the games themselves.... one man in black, green, yellow is right and 10's of thousands watching are wrong??????


Well the '10's of thousands' are usually a tad bias!

By your logic the '10s of thousands' telling Lumley to get on with it, when he had blood streaming from his face were right!!!!!!!!!!!

As DaveB and others have said in real time the Kodja incident looked innocuous but clearly he caught Joe so should have been a red.

Interestingly I DID argue with many on here who told me the Angel Rangel boot to opoo face (that caused far more damage) was Ok because it was totally accidental! THAT was a red (and a pen)

All I try to do on here with referees is put my QPR hat away and explain why I think the referee has made a decision based on the fact that I am qualified current referee.

A 'fans' view is always going to be different - you don't referee for 16 years without realising that the '10s of thoudands' including managers/coaches etc ALWAYS view the game from their own perspective - witness Dean Smith's ridiculous assertion here that we stared wasting time in minute 2 - a risible claim.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 14:01 - Jan 4 with 1181 viewsPinnerPaul

Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:21 - Jan 4 by daveB

do they normally add on 1 minute for goals and 1 min for subs, if that was the case we'd have at least 6 minutes every week just for the subs


No - not always - that's a good point DaveB

Goals - sometimes if celebrations take too long.

Subs - usually 30 seconds - but it obviously varies!

The last Villa one near 90' took about 20 seconds - our one in added time a full minute and a few seconds on top of that.
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 14:35 - Jan 4 with 1145 viewsTacticalR

@PinnerPaul 'As DaveB and others have said in real time the Kodja incident looked innocuous but clearly he caught Joe so should have been a red.'

If the ref didn't see it, or saw it and it looked innocuous, can he then give a red card? Wouldn't that be guesswork by the ref?

Air hostess clique

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 15:53 - Jan 4 with 1089 viewsPinnerPaul

Villla - The timekeeping! on 14:35 - Jan 4 by TacticalR

@PinnerPaul 'As DaveB and others have said in real time the Kodja incident looked innocuous but clearly he caught Joe so should have been a red.'

If the ref didn't see it, or saw it and it looked innocuous, can he then give a red card? Wouldn't that be guesswork by the ref?


If he didn't see it - it can't be a yellow.

'Endangering safety of an opponent' is a red - doesn't have to be excessive force or deliberate.

A good example of that is the Bobby Zamora red card at LR a few years back - player came from behind him, barely any contact with the guys face, but was still a red.


You're quite right - if referee hasn't seen it than he can't give a red, but can't give a yellow either I don't think - that would have to be a 'reckless' challenge - if he hasn't seen it or thinks there's nothing in it - how can he give a yellow?


For me, yellow is a bit of a cop out - its either a red or nothing based on the fact that he hasn't seen it or deems it just careless, but clearly the injury tells you it HAS endangered Joe's 'safety'!
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 20:25 - Jan 4 with 994 viewsTacticalR

Villla - The timekeeping! on 15:53 - Jan 4 by PinnerPaul

If he didn't see it - it can't be a yellow.

'Endangering safety of an opponent' is a red - doesn't have to be excessive force or deliberate.

A good example of that is the Bobby Zamora red card at LR a few years back - player came from behind him, barely any contact with the guys face, but was still a red.


You're quite right - if referee hasn't seen it than he can't give a red, but can't give a yellow either I don't think - that would have to be a 'reckless' challenge - if he hasn't seen it or thinks there's nothing in it - how can he give a yellow?


For me, yellow is a bit of a cop out - its either a red or nothing based on the fact that he hasn't seen it or deems it just careless, but clearly the injury tells you it HAS endangered Joe's 'safety'!


I see what you are saying. Maybe the reality is that he was prepared to guess a yellow but not guess a red?

Air hostess clique

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 20:28 - Jan 4 with 991 viewssmegma

Villla - The timekeeping! on 14:01 - Jan 4 by PinnerPaul

No - not always - that's a good point DaveB

Goals - sometimes if celebrations take too long.

Subs - usually 30 seconds - but it obviously varies!

The last Villa one near 90' took about 20 seconds - our one in added time a full minute and a few seconds on top of that.


Do refs ever criticise their fellow refs is a more apt question ???
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 02:10 - Jan 5 with 874 viewsJAPRANGERS

Thanks Pinner for your knowledgeable insights. Very interesting discourse!

May I ask out of interest, where do you do your refereeing? I mean, which league??
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Villla - The timekeeping! on 09:43 - Jan 5 with 776 viewsAntti_Heinola

Villla - The timekeeping! on 15:53 - Jan 4 by PinnerPaul

If he didn't see it - it can't be a yellow.

'Endangering safety of an opponent' is a red - doesn't have to be excessive force or deliberate.

A good example of that is the Bobby Zamora red card at LR a few years back - player came from behind him, barely any contact with the guys face, but was still a red.


You're quite right - if referee hasn't seen it than he can't give a red, but can't give a yellow either I don't think - that would have to be a 'reckless' challenge - if he hasn't seen it or thinks there's nothing in it - how can he give a yellow?


For me, yellow is a bit of a cop out - its either a red or nothing based on the fact that he hasn't seen it or deems it just careless, but clearly the injury tells you it HAS endangered Joe's 'safety'!


Agree with you Pinner - for me, it was a clear red and not sure how it could be anything else. If the ref didn't 'see' the contact, there's ample evidence to demonstrate it and he certainly wold have 'seen' that Kodija had no need to make contact. Therefpre he made contact, therefore it was deliberate (not that that matters as you say), therefore it's a red.

I mean, come on. You can't tell me a ref can't give a red if he's not sure contact was made or didn't see it, but on closer inspection a guy's nose is hanging off, but he's not allowed to put two and two together?

Bare bones.

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:09 - Jan 5 with 744 viewsloftboy

As a card was issued it now means the FA can’t impose anymore sanctions as the ref was deemed to have seen it, had he not carded and said I didn’t see it then I would expect a charge of violent conduct. Maybe it’s time for a rugby style grassing up system.

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Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:58 - Jan 5 with 710 viewsTacticalR

Villla - The timekeeping! on 10:09 - Jan 5 by loftboy

As a card was issued it now means the FA can’t impose anymore sanctions as the ref was deemed to have seen it, had he not carded and said I didn’t see it then I would expect a charge of violent conduct. Maybe it’s time for a rugby style grassing up system.


Or good old VAR.

Air hostess clique

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