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On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no?
I know VW paid compo to the septics, but actually got away with paying compo to all the poor sods in Europe who purchased one fo their poxy diesel cars.
Also with Italy officially going into recession last week, the whole EU is like a pack of cards waiting to fall..... jonny frenchman aint too happy , and heck even the dutch(who got shafted first time round with the 'keep asking them until they say yes (remember the Irish did too)) are rather miffed, even if the politicians put on a bullish front.
there is no doubt about it, a no brexit will hurt us all..... EU and UK, which is even more an amazing thing when you think about how intransigent the EU has been on all this 'negotiation' and how shyte we have. you would have thought that even if a 'no deal' happened, saner minds would calm the trade waters with good deals for both them and us, or they will also be in the poo with a lot more to lose that us.
Quicker May goes the better in my view. In fact her, and bloody 'project fear'!!
Our country is fckd match thread on 15:12 - Feb 7 by CFW
Producing the new x-trail at the Sunderland plant is simply not a viable proposition. The decision has nothing to do with Brexit - the market for this type of car is in the far east where they don't give a shit about emissions and as such shipping the vehicles half way around the world is nonsense.
This whole situation blew up from VW (German EU based company) lying about the emissions on their diesel cars to ensure they met the EU guidelines. Diesel vehicles are a reducing market within Europe and so yes a lot has changed within the past two years.
I would agree though that Nissan have tried to use the Brexit scaremongering bandwagon to justify their decision which is totally unfair.
I agree with this. The X trail has never been built in the UK and was never planned to be. It's a pretty low volume diesel vehicle.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 16:29 - Feb 7 with 2281 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 12:12 - Feb 7 by QPR_John
The point I am trying to get across, unsuccessfully it seems, is that if the situations that remainers predict, empty shelves in supermarkets, no medicines, people dying for want of treatment, lorrys stacked up, planes not being able to fly, being less secure against terrorist attacks is what they believe then how can they possibly ever vote to leave whatever the EU imposed.
[Post edited 7 Feb 2019 12:14]
By the same token, you could say that brexiters will always want to leave, no matter what benefits from the EU obtain. Why is the UK the only country that is frightened of closer integration with the EU ? From what I can divine, the people who voted Leave are the very rich and the very poor. These have outnumbered the people in between and left us in this utter mess. After over. 40 years, during which time the country has prospered it was obvious leaving would create huge problems which could take many years to put right. Why are we putting ourselves through this ?
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Our country is fckd match thread on 16:45 - Feb 7 with 2255 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 13:36 - Feb 7 by R_from_afar
Once we come out, even if there is no deal, our companies will still be affected by the EU when they wish to trade with its member states. If a UK company wants to sell to, say, a French retailer, and there is an EU safety standard, the UK company will still have to comply with it.
The problem is that said UK company will no longer be able to have any influence on that standard.
RFA
Does that not apply to any country we wish to deal with.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 16:51 - Feb 7 with 2239 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 16:29 - Feb 7 by colinallcars
By the same token, you could say that brexiters will always want to leave, no matter what benefits from the EU obtain. Why is the UK the only country that is frightened of closer integration with the EU ? From what I can divine, the people who voted Leave are the very rich and the very poor. These have outnumbered the people in between and left us in this utter mess. After over. 40 years, during which time the country has prospered it was obvious leaving would create huge problems which could take many years to put right. Why are we putting ourselves through this ?
To say that only rich or poor voted to leave the EU is total rubbish - people voted to leave for many reasons and having a lot or no money has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately over the past 40 years the EU has changed dramatically and is now only kept going by the UK, Germany, France who are the only countries with any money. All of the Eastern European countries have much to gain - they put bugger all in (as they have nothing) but get a lot in return.
When we leave that will put more and more pressure on the German and French - Germany are close on a recession and as has already been stated the French and Dutch are not exactly in a happy place.
Let's not forget two points - the Euro almost went bust a couple of years ago with Greece and the Irish on the brink. Italy and Spain are not far behind and in forty years NEVER have one set of financial accounts have ever been audited and signed off. We are more than capable of being just as well off without the EU. We were forced into this situation by the EU not bending and allowing us to re negotiate terms that suit our country. Had they given a bit we would never had an in/out vote.
Want to blame someone try looking at France and Germany - I hope they will be very happy together.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 17:04 - Feb 7 with 2218 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 16:51 - Feb 7 by CFW
To say that only rich or poor voted to leave the EU is total rubbish - people voted to leave for many reasons and having a lot or no money has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately over the past 40 years the EU has changed dramatically and is now only kept going by the UK, Germany, France who are the only countries with any money. All of the Eastern European countries have much to gain - they put bugger all in (as they have nothing) but get a lot in return.
When we leave that will put more and more pressure on the German and French - Germany are close on a recession and as has already been stated the French and Dutch are not exactly in a happy place.
Let's not forget two points - the Euro almost went bust a couple of years ago with Greece and the Irish on the brink. Italy and Spain are not far behind and in forty years NEVER have one set of financial accounts have ever been audited and signed off. We are more than capable of being just as well off without the EU. We were forced into this situation by the EU not bending and allowing us to re negotiate terms that suit our country. Had they given a bit we would never had an in/out vote.
Want to blame someone try looking at France and Germany - I hope they will be very happy together.
Our country is fckd match thread on 16:29 - Feb 7 by colinallcars
By the same token, you could say that brexiters will always want to leave, no matter what benefits from the EU obtain. Why is the UK the only country that is frightened of closer integration with the EU ? From what I can divine, the people who voted Leave are the very rich and the very poor. These have outnumbered the people in between and left us in this utter mess. After over. 40 years, during which time the country has prospered it was obvious leaving would create huge problems which could take many years to put right. Why are we putting ourselves through this ?
Again this was not my point. Those that want to leave have the ability to change their minds at any time however those that want to remain, if they really believe what they say will happen if we leave, have left themselves with no alternatives but to stay regardless. If their is no food, if their are no medicines, if planes will not be able to fly, if we are less secure if we leave now that will be the case in the future. That is a frightening scenario if you believe it as those wishing to remain do so how could you possibly vote to leave. Hence my point those wishing to remain have concluded we can never leave
Our country is fckd match thread on 17:31 - Feb 7 by QPR_John
Again this was not my point. Those that want to leave have the ability to change their minds at any time however those that want to remain, if they really believe what they say will happen if we leave, have left themselves with no alternatives but to stay regardless. If their is no food, if their are no medicines, if planes will not be able to fly, if we are less secure if we leave now that will be the case in the future. That is a frightening scenario if you believe it as those wishing to remain do so how could you possibly vote to leave. Hence my point those wishing to remain have concluded we can never leave
I think you are correct in that remainers are highly unlikely to change their minds because they have thought things through and have reached a conclusion. Many leave voters with whom I have spoken are wavering because they voted with their hearts rather than their heads. Sorry, but's what I have encountered.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 20:05 - Feb 7 with 2096 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - Feb 7 by colinallcars
I think you are correct in that remainers are highly unlikely to change their minds because they have thought things through and have reached a conclusion. Many leave voters with whom I have spoken are wavering because they voted with their hearts rather than their heads. Sorry, but's what I have encountered.
If as a remainer you believe the stories then you CANNOT change your mind so in any referendum on any EU changes you would vote to remain. Why should Brussels reform knowing that.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 00:03 - Feb 8 with 2003 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 12:26 - Feb 7 by QPR_John
So in a general election if a government is elected I did not vote for can I say I do not accept the result. Those that voted the same as me can form their own government. Why should one group force their government on another
[Post edited 7 Feb 2019 12:28]
The thing about a general election, John, is that if the result doesn't go your way then you know you'll get a chance to reverse it within five years. With this Brexit referendum, we're being told the decision is final, forever, and that anyone who suggests having another referendum at any time in the future is at best undemocratic, or at worst a traitor.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 00:32 - Feb 8 with 1992 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 00:03 - Feb 8 by GloryHunter
The thing about a general election, John, is that if the result doesn't go your way then you know you'll get a chance to reverse it within five years. With this Brexit referendum, we're being told the decision is final, forever, and that anyone who suggests having another referendum at any time in the future is at best undemocratic, or at worst a traitor.
You could of course argue the same thing about remaining in the EU - that if the UK remains then that will also be the situation forever with no further opportunity of ever leaving. I do rather suspect however that if the UK does finally fully leave, without the UK's financial contribution then the EU will not exist to be able to re-join in 10/20 years.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 08:03 - Feb 8 with 1934 views
Tusk is not a civil servant, he is the President of the EU Council. He's been in post since 2014 and was RE_ELECTED in 2017. The Council is made up of the 28 elected Heads of State.
His remarks were contentious, probably deliberately so. He's had to deal with UK negotiators for the last 2 years (- 50 days) who either don't know what they want or can't deliver on what they agree to. I'm sure the remarks were a mark of frustration that the EU has more important things to do than pander to a member who is leaving but still can't agree what it wants.
His targets promised the sun, moon and stars to the British people and haven't the faintest idea how to deliver on those promises.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
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Our country is fckd match thread on 08:12 - Feb 8 with 1928 views
I do now think that the UK will leave on March 29th, almost certainly without a deal. May's deal which she agreed with the EU in November is dead; the EU are not prepared to re-open the Withdrawal Agreement; May is determined to leave and nobody is strong enough to force a no-Brexit option.
If you read any of the Government papers advising what happens in a no-deal, you should be very concerned. But that's unlikely to be the whole story. The UK imports 30% of the food it consumes from the EU. Any hold-ups at customs, and that could be rotting in the trucks before it gets across the Channel. UK exports of agricultural products have to be inspected 100% at a Border Inspection Point. There are 2 BIPs in the EU with capacity - Zeebrugge and Rotterdam. Great news for farmers in West Wales or Cornwall. Certain medicines, e.g the PM's insulin, are not manufactured in the UK. The Health Sec is talking about chartering planes at 30,000 per flight to fill the gaps. UK hauliers will get 984 permits to drive in the EU, when, today, they need around 40,000. Most manufacturing industry (cars and Airbus as examples) rely on Just In Time manufacturing. They keep half a day's production in stock. Any customs delays and those (foreign) companies will start withdrawing investment and models and, eventually, shutting plants where they have an unstable supply chain. Any company that has been exporting to or importing from the EU only, will have to undertake a reworking of their systems and incur extra costs. It is only about 9% of all UK companies but that still gives 350,000 companies. Financial Services companies will lose passporting rights and have already migrated some jobs to EU locations - not many so far, but it could well increase significantly. But they only employ 1.2m people and contribute 12% of UK tax revenue. Who has faith that Chris Grayling can keep the transport arteries open? Are the plans for avoiding motorway traffic jams on roads leading to the ports, sufficiently developed. We can always recruit additional ferry capacity by calling on companies with no ships, no experience and using a port that isn't a port. How quickly will the Home Office grant "settled status"to 3m EU citizens in the UK, assuming those EU nationals still want to stay in a hostile environment. I'm sure the NHS can manage without EU doctors and nurses.
But I don't believe it will be a complete catastrophe. The first 6 months will be very difficult. After that, it will be a steady decline.
I shall look on with interest from within the EU.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
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Our country is fckd match thread on 09:32 - Feb 8 with 1890 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 08:03 - Feb 8 by derbyhoop
Tusk is not a civil servant, he is the President of the EU Council. He's been in post since 2014 and was RE_ELECTED in 2017. The Council is made up of the 28 elected Heads of State.
His remarks were contentious, probably deliberately so. He's had to deal with UK negotiators for the last 2 years (- 50 days) who either don't know what they want or can't deliver on what they agree to. I'm sure the remarks were a mark of frustration that the EU has more important things to do than pander to a member who is leaving but still can't agree what it wants.
His targets promised the sun, moon and stars to the British people and haven't the faintest idea how to deliver on those promises.
hes been dealing with "negotiators" whos incompetence knows no bounds.
Mislaying empty briefcases and not knowing the importance of dover were amongst some of the highlights.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 09:34 - Feb 8 with 1889 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 08:58 - Feb 8 by derbyhoop
I do now think that the UK will leave on March 29th, almost certainly without a deal. May's deal which she agreed with the EU in November is dead; the EU are not prepared to re-open the Withdrawal Agreement; May is determined to leave and nobody is strong enough to force a no-Brexit option.
If you read any of the Government papers advising what happens in a no-deal, you should be very concerned. But that's unlikely to be the whole story. The UK imports 30% of the food it consumes from the EU. Any hold-ups at customs, and that could be rotting in the trucks before it gets across the Channel. UK exports of agricultural products have to be inspected 100% at a Border Inspection Point. There are 2 BIPs in the EU with capacity - Zeebrugge and Rotterdam. Great news for farmers in West Wales or Cornwall. Certain medicines, e.g the PM's insulin, are not manufactured in the UK. The Health Sec is talking about chartering planes at 30,000 per flight to fill the gaps. UK hauliers will get 984 permits to drive in the EU, when, today, they need around 40,000. Most manufacturing industry (cars and Airbus as examples) rely on Just In Time manufacturing. They keep half a day's production in stock. Any customs delays and those (foreign) companies will start withdrawing investment and models and, eventually, shutting plants where they have an unstable supply chain. Any company that has been exporting to or importing from the EU only, will have to undertake a reworking of their systems and incur extra costs. It is only about 9% of all UK companies but that still gives 350,000 companies. Financial Services companies will lose passporting rights and have already migrated some jobs to EU locations - not many so far, but it could well increase significantly. But they only employ 1.2m people and contribute 12% of UK tax revenue. Who has faith that Chris Grayling can keep the transport arteries open? Are the plans for avoiding motorway traffic jams on roads leading to the ports, sufficiently developed. We can always recruit additional ferry capacity by calling on companies with no ships, no experience and using a port that isn't a port. How quickly will the Home Office grant "settled status"to 3m EU citizens in the UK, assuming those EU nationals still want to stay in a hostile environment. I'm sure the NHS can manage without EU doctors and nurses.
But I don't believe it will be a complete catastrophe. The first 6 months will be very difficult. After that, it will be a steady decline.
I shall look on with interest from within the EU.
That's a bleak picture. Somehow I think some sort of deal will be brokered though. It's not in ours or the EU's interest for us to leave without a deal. Nothing concemtrates the mind more than the threat of the noose someone said.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 09:59 - Feb 8 with 1857 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 09:34 - Feb 8 by colinallcars
That's a bleak picture. Somehow I think some sort of deal will be brokered though. It's not in ours or the EU's interest for us to leave without a deal. Nothing concemtrates the mind more than the threat of the noose someone said.
Yes, it is bleak. I really cannot see where a deal will come from. No deal will hurt EU, but not nearly as much as the UK.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
1
Our country is fckd match thread on 11:41 - Feb 8 with 1791 views
"Donald Trump is being urged to play hardball with the UK when it negotiates a trade deal with the US after leaving the EU, Huffington Post reports.
It says the US Department of Trade asked industry what the president should extract from post-Brexit Britain and the answers from lobbyists for big firms included:
Changing how NHS chiefs buy drugs to suit big US pharmaceutical companies. Britain scrapping its safety-first approach to safety and food standards. Law changes that would allow foreign companies to sue the British state. Removing protections for traditional British products."
Hmm, that sounds like a really special relationship . . .
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Our country is fckd match thread on 11:43 - Feb 8 with 1789 views
Our country is fckd match thread on 11:35 - Feb 8 by derbyhoop
Yes, it is bleak. I really cannot see where a deal will come from. No deal will hurt EU, but not nearly as much as the UK.
The fact that all the Murdoch press and the Telegraph etc are now enthusiastically backing No Deal for me means it's going to happen.
I imagine in a few years when everyoneone who backed No Deal is going to look very stupid indeed, it will all be glossed over, much like the mass support for the Iraq War at the time which now apparently nobody wanted at all.
If you're choosing to believe the out and out lies that No Deal will be "fine" and "they need us more than we need them" and "let's get on with it and get out of the failing EU", then take a look at what Derby is posting, which are actual facts. It won't be fine at all.
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Our country is fckd match thread on 11:48 - Feb 8 with 1779 views
I can not see where the UK has been unreasonable it wanting to leave and how, it's the EU that has made all the demands still wanting to control the UK's business and people.
It's like you leaving a job and your ex-boss still in charge or being vindictive in any relationship.
Go to your room and don't come out till you do as we say. A diplomatic sent to Coventry.
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