| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 204522 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:02 - Apr 3 with 2268 views | CFW |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:02 - Apr 2 by Watford_Ranger |
If in her educated opinion Leave was in my constituency’s interests then yes, that would be fine as it always has been though no one knew nor cared how their MP voted on many issues pre-referendum.
Surely a dictatorship would be MPs blindly kowtowing to May, as you seem to want them to do. |
Why do people think that MPs are so educated and know so much more than us mere mortals? Being an MP is a job, reasonably well paid with a great pension along with many other benefits. Are they more educated than someone who owns a business, a dedicated teacher, doctor.? Simple answer no - they are elected to carry out the wishes of us voters not to ignore them and do what they want because they are educated and know best.
I rather get the impression that all remainers know what is best for our country but the brexiteers are all I’ll educsted idiots. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:17 - Apr 3 with 2243 views | stowmarketrange |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:05 - Apr 3 by GloryHunter |
Come on, let's have a vote on it then, 2T2B. You enjoyed voting Leave so much the first time, wouldn't you just LOVE the chance to vote Leave again? |
Why should anyone have to vote again because the losers can’t accept the result of the 1st one?
And if there was another vote,how would the results be implemented?
If remain won would that be the end of it,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?
Rather than unite the country,another vote would only deepen the divide between the two sides.Even a lot of remainers don’t want to have to vote again,so in my opinion,we have to respect the result of the first vote. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:27 - Apr 3 with 2219 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:17 - Apr 3 by stowmarketrange |
Why should anyone have to vote again because the losers can’t accept the result of the 1st one?
And if there was another vote,how would the results be implemented?
If remain won would that be the end of it,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?
Rather than unite the country,another vote would only deepen the divide between the two sides.Even a lot of remainers don’t want to have to vote again,so in my opinion,we have to respect the result of the first vote. |
We have gone over this many times.
What would the question be.
what percent would be acceptable to both sides and if close again will there be a 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th...
Remain don't want to answer any of these questions.
Not having No deal is like me saying if it's remain, it must be that as long as we don't do anything the EU wants it's ok. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 06:19 - Apr 4 with 2128 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:02 - Apr 3 by CFW |
Why do people think that MPs are so educated and know so much more than us mere mortals? Being an MP is a job, reasonably well paid with a great pension along with many other benefits. Are they more educated than someone who owns a business, a dedicated teacher, doctor.? Simple answer no - they are elected to carry out the wishes of us voters not to ignore them and do what they want because they are educated and know best.
I rather get the impression that all remainers know what is best for our country but the brexiteers are all I’ll educsted idiots. |
Why do Brexiteers make things up so they can be offended?
It’s an MP’s job to be informed, to a realistic degree, on the issue he/she is voting on. I obviously didn’t mean “educated” in terms of what university they went to. They aren’t elected to carry out the wishes of voters blindly at all and never have been. It’s painful how long it takes for people to get this.
Nobody, apart from Leavers looking for something to cry about, has ever said all Leavers are ill-educated idiots though you aren’t doing a lot to suggest that’s not the case. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 06:22 - Apr 4 with 2123 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:33 - Apr 3 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Would you if remain had won last time
Problem is it would not be the same question, remainers are at this moment trying to get a law passed to stop a no deal, which I have commented on before.
So those people expressing in that poll a wish for a no deal would be outlawed.
No point having a vote that would be rigged.
I would not support a vote that was rigged in leave favour either. [Post edited 3 Apr 2019 22:58]
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Again, leaving would still be an option.
Again, the EU have already agreed a deal with our Prime Minister. Again, the Tories can’t find a majority opinion amongst themselves so can’t expect anyone else to make their minds up for them. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:16 - Apr 4 with 2075 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:27 - Apr 3 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
We have gone over this many times.
What would the question be.
what percent would be acceptable to both sides and if close again will there be a 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th...
Remain don't want to answer any of these questions.
Not having No deal is like me saying if it's remain, it must be that as long as we don't do anything the EU wants it's ok. |
The question can't be the government deal or no deal - that would be in breach of the original referendum Act.
The Referendum Act 2015 was on whether or not the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union. It was only possible to vote to remain a member or to stop being a member.
Leaving membership of the European Union within the Referendum Act included a duty for the government to publish information about membership. Section 7(1)(b) required the government to provide examples of countries that were not members. This included producing a report 10 weeks before the date of the referendum.
The report (published by the Treasury) was, called “Alternatives to membership: possible models for the United Kingdom outside the European Union”. It made clear the government would review the different models and seek an agreement to achieve the best possible advantage for the country.
The Treasury highlighted the short term and long term impact of a vote to leave in a number of reports to parliament (those expert MPs) which referred to the ‘Alternatives to membership’ highlighting the multiple different relationships the government may pursue in the event of a vote to leave.
Throughout the campaign before the referendum, Leave continued to cite these alternatives and did not propose no deal in any form.
If people say they voted for No Deal they have been misinformed; it was not available as an option. It has only become an alternative since article 50 was triggered. By taking the action they have, MPs are protecting the sovereignity of parliament from the initial referendum proposal.
So a vote would have to be the deal (as agreed across parliament) or remain. This is why many on the Leave side are against the idea of a second vote - support for the current WA and deal is insufficient to overcome the desire to remain. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:30 - Apr 4 with 2049 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:16 - Apr 4 by AnonymousR |
The question can't be the government deal or no deal - that would be in breach of the original referendum Act.
The Referendum Act 2015 was on whether or not the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union. It was only possible to vote to remain a member or to stop being a member.
Leaving membership of the European Union within the Referendum Act included a duty for the government to publish information about membership. Section 7(1)(b) required the government to provide examples of countries that were not members. This included producing a report 10 weeks before the date of the referendum.
The report (published by the Treasury) was, called “Alternatives to membership: possible models for the United Kingdom outside the European Union”. It made clear the government would review the different models and seek an agreement to achieve the best possible advantage for the country.
The Treasury highlighted the short term and long term impact of a vote to leave in a number of reports to parliament (those expert MPs) which referred to the ‘Alternatives to membership’ highlighting the multiple different relationships the government may pursue in the event of a vote to leave.
Throughout the campaign before the referendum, Leave continued to cite these alternatives and did not propose no deal in any form.
If people say they voted for No Deal they have been misinformed; it was not available as an option. It has only become an alternative since article 50 was triggered. By taking the action they have, MPs are protecting the sovereignity of parliament from the initial referendum proposal.
So a vote would have to be the deal (as agreed across parliament) or remain. This is why many on the Leave side are against the idea of a second vote - support for the current WA and deal is insufficient to overcome the desire to remain. |
It did not have to be in the first referendum, all parties agreed that the vote was simply Leave/Remain
The EU has always had an option for no deal on any deal with any country/state on any matter.
No deal is the default Not just by us but also the EU, they could trigger no deal themselves.
That is why remainers have tried to stop it by motions and now with law.
Also so that no deal is removed from another referendum.
The EU will retain the No deal option.
Like I said rigged. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 9:01]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:04 - Apr 4 with 2005 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:30 - Apr 4 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
It did not have to be in the first referendum, all parties agreed that the vote was simply Leave/Remain
The EU has always had an option for no deal on any deal with any country/state on any matter.
No deal is the default Not just by us but also the EU, they could trigger no deal themselves.
That is why remainers have tried to stop it by motions and now with law.
Also so that no deal is removed from another referendum.
The EU will retain the No deal option.
Like I said rigged. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 9:01]
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The first referendum was leave/remain - all parties agreed that as detailed in the Act. By agreeing to that, they also agreed to alternative options.
The UK parliament had sovereignty over the potential exit routes until the government triggered article 50. The triggering of Article 50 by the government without those options being available, handed no deal to the EU as an option. As mentioned above, no deal was not an option at the referendum.
Rigged? No.
Incompetently managed? Yes. | | | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:32 - Apr 4 with 1978 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:04 - Apr 4 by AnonymousR |
The first referendum was leave/remain - all parties agreed that as detailed in the Act. By agreeing to that, they also agreed to alternative options.
The UK parliament had sovereignty over the potential exit routes until the government triggered article 50. The triggering of Article 50 by the government without those options being available, handed no deal to the EU as an option. As mentioned above, no deal was not an option at the referendum.
Rigged? No.
Incompetently managed? Yes. |
You misunderstand.
Any new referendum without no deal on Uk side while the EU retains that option is rigged.
It also restricts Leave and benefits Remain by having no restrictions on them. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:34 - Apr 4 with 1982 views | essextaxiboy |
I am confident that another vote would produce a leave result .,as long as all of the leave options on the ballot were added together to pitch against a remain vote . Its the principle of toeing the historic EU line of "wrong answer ,vote again" that I object to . I honestly thought we had more about us ... |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:13 - Apr 4 with 1956 views | AnonymousR |
To ETB
Which is what happened at the first referendum. The detail now requires further clarity, hence the indicative process in parliament. It's for them to create the best deal and place it against remain so the electorate know what they're voting for. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 11:15]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:15 - Apr 4 with 1954 views | AnonymousR |
To 2T2B
But no deal wasn't an option at the referendum and isn't an option now; last night's vote to pass the act will prevent that. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 11:16]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:24 - Apr 4 with 1946 views | TacticalR |
An analysis (quite sympathetic to Leave) from Australia by the Piping Shrike blogger, focusing on the political side of the crisis.
'However, it was not just that Parliament was being forced to enact what it did not want, the issue itself that has proved profoundly destabilising. It stems from the central paradox of the Brexit vote - 'Take back control' meant handing power back to a Parliament that wanted no such thing. Parliament's reluctance to implement Brexit and take back control has undermined it and the very point of what the British political system and democracy is supposed to be about. The call for sovereignty in the Brexit vote went to the heart of not only the weakness of the Remain case but, as it turned out, of the Leave case as well.'
There's also an interesting observation in there about why the Tories took Britain into Europe in the first place.
The Brexit Paradox
https://meanjin.com.au/blog/the-brexit-paradox/ |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:37 - Apr 4 with 1914 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:15 - Apr 4 by AnonymousR |
To 2T2B
But no deal wasn't an option at the referendum and isn't an option now; last night's vote to pass the act will prevent that. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 11:16]
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We will have to disagree.
As what you are saying is they are removing what was not there in the first place!
If you want to argue they are only removing it from A50, it's still wrong as the EU still retains it as an option.
Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon cannot be changed by a UK court of law.
That's why it's being sidestepped with this law to extend.
It does not in it'self remove no deal just means never ending extentions.
But again the EU can still say no deal.
Flipping crazy. [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 12:01]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:52 - Apr 4 with 1773 views | GloryHunter |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:17 - Apr 3 by stowmarketrange |
Why should anyone have to vote again because the losers can’t accept the result of the 1st one?
And if there was another vote,how would the results be implemented?
If remain won would that be the end of it,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?
Rather than unite the country,another vote would only deepen the divide between the two sides.Even a lot of remainers don’t want to have to vote again,so in my opinion,we have to respect the result of the first vote. |
"If remain won would that be the end of it ,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?"
This is a question that has been raised many times. If Remain wins, then Leave will keep campaigning for another referendum. Farage, for one, will campaign to leave the EU until the day he dies. And vice versa on the Remain side.
I wouldn't have any problem with a repeat Remain / Leave / Rejoin referendum every five years, to coincide with the General Election. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 23:17 - Apr 4 with 1757 views | NorthLondonR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:52 - Apr 4 by GloryHunter |
"If remain won would that be the end of it ,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?"
This is a question that has been raised many times. If Remain wins, then Leave will keep campaigning for another referendum. Farage, for one, will campaign to leave the EU until the day he dies. And vice versa on the Remain side.
I wouldn't have any problem with a repeat Remain / Leave / Rejoin referendum every five years, to coincide with the General Election. |
I would like to explore the backstop with ash sarkar.. or is that for the other thread? [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 23:18]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 00:05 - Apr 5 with 1720 views | SydneyRs |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 06:19 - Apr 4 by Watford_Ranger |
Why do Brexiteers make things up so they can be offended?
It’s an MP’s job to be informed, to a realistic degree, on the issue he/she is voting on. I obviously didn’t mean “educated” in terms of what university they went to. They aren’t elected to carry out the wishes of voters blindly at all and never have been. It’s painful how long it takes for people to get this.
Nobody, apart from Leavers looking for something to cry about, has ever said all Leavers are ill-educated idiots though you aren’t doing a lot to suggest that’s not the case. |
Certainly not all, far from it. But absolutely more than enough to have made the difference between winning and losing the referendum.
You only have to observe the way a lot of them behave on social media. Caps lock shouting leave means leave over and over again and demanding "no deal" with no idea of what that actually means. Remedial levels of spelling and grammar, aggressiveness, threats of rioting/violence if leave doesn't happen etc, seen plenty of this. There is rarely if ever any reasoned argument as to why leave is the better option. This section of the leave vote is undoubtedly the dimwitted school bully type who probably never won anything else in their life and are clinging desperately to this no matter what. The LBC facebook page is a classic example of this if you look at the comments every time they put something up about Brexit. I've seen some decent arguments for leave on here but there is hell of a lot of uninformed Murdoch puppets on that side too.
You just do not see the same level of hate and aggression on the remain side. It largely trying to convince that remaining is the better option and backing it up with arguments. Fine if you don't agree but the approach of the two sides is very different from what I've seen.
*Insert "snowflake" and "remoaner" comments here with an ever hilarious Diane Abbott maths meme* | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 06:33 - Apr 5 with 1678 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 00:05 - Apr 5 by SydneyRs |
Certainly not all, far from it. But absolutely more than enough to have made the difference between winning and losing the referendum.
You only have to observe the way a lot of them behave on social media. Caps lock shouting leave means leave over and over again and demanding "no deal" with no idea of what that actually means. Remedial levels of spelling and grammar, aggressiveness, threats of rioting/violence if leave doesn't happen etc, seen plenty of this. There is rarely if ever any reasoned argument as to why leave is the better option. This section of the leave vote is undoubtedly the dimwitted school bully type who probably never won anything else in their life and are clinging desperately to this no matter what. The LBC facebook page is a classic example of this if you look at the comments every time they put something up about Brexit. I've seen some decent arguments for leave on here but there is hell of a lot of uninformed Murdoch puppets on that side too.
You just do not see the same level of hate and aggression on the remain side. It largely trying to convince that remaining is the better option and backing it up with arguments. Fine if you don't agree but the approach of the two sides is very different from what I've seen.
*Insert "snowflake" and "remoaner" comments here with an ever hilarious Diane Abbott maths meme* |
Your words not mine.
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:38 - Apr 5 with 1635 views | stowmarketrange |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:52 - Apr 4 by GloryHunter |
"If remain won would that be the end of it ,or would they ask for another one if leave won again?"
This is a question that has been raised many times. If Remain wins, then Leave will keep campaigning for another referendum. Farage, for one, will campaign to leave the EU until the day he dies. And vice versa on the Remain side.
I wouldn't have any problem with a repeat Remain / Leave / Rejoin referendum every five years, to coincide with the General Election. |
I personally think that if the leavers had lost the 2016 vote the vast majority of the 17.4 million people who voted for brexit would’ve grumbled for a few days and then resumed their normal lives.Obviously Farage would have been looking for another vote,but I genuinely believe that most of us would’ve just accepted that we’d tried and lost,and his support would’ve drifted away.
It’s a shame that the remainers can’t do the same and accept the result and try and negotiate an exit that the majority of the population would tolerate.
How can you have a vote every 5 years?How could you leave 1 time and then 5 years later ask to come back in? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 08:25 - Apr 5 with 1608 views | QPR_John |
You could not make it up. A vastly reduced turnout and a reduced majority but the winner in Newport, who happens to be labour but let's call her a politician, first words are a win is a win. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:59 - Apr 5 with 1568 views | GloryHunter |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:38 - Apr 5 by stowmarketrange |
I personally think that if the leavers had lost the 2016 vote the vast majority of the 17.4 million people who voted for brexit would’ve grumbled for a few days and then resumed their normal lives.Obviously Farage would have been looking for another vote,but I genuinely believe that most of us would’ve just accepted that we’d tried and lost,and his support would’ve drifted away.
It’s a shame that the remainers can’t do the same and accept the result and try and negotiate an exit that the majority of the population would tolerate.
How can you have a vote every 5 years?How could you leave 1 time and then 5 years later ask to come back in? |
"How can you have a vote every 5 years?How could you leave 1 time and then 5 years later ask to come back in? "
Because that's what the EU have said can be done. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:15 - Apr 5 with 1559 views | QPR_Jim |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 07:38 - Apr 5 by stowmarketrange |
I personally think that if the leavers had lost the 2016 vote the vast majority of the 17.4 million people who voted for brexit would’ve grumbled for a few days and then resumed their normal lives.Obviously Farage would have been looking for another vote,but I genuinely believe that most of us would’ve just accepted that we’d tried and lost,and his support would’ve drifted away.
It’s a shame that the remainers can’t do the same and accept the result and try and negotiate an exit that the majority of the population would tolerate.
How can you have a vote every 5 years?How could you leave 1 time and then 5 years later ask to come back in? |
From what you're saying it doesn't sound like the majority of leave voters have strong convictions over the EU. If it's so bad we have to leave, even if it's damaging to our own economy then you'd think they'd still push for leave after losing the vote.
I suspect that they would continue much like farage, perhaps only those voting in protest would drift away. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:33 - Apr 5 with 1546 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:15 - Apr 5 by QPR_Jim |
From what you're saying it doesn't sound like the majority of leave voters have strong convictions over the EU. If it's so bad we have to leave, even if it's damaging to our own economy then you'd think they'd still push for leave after losing the vote.
I suspect that they would continue much like farage, perhaps only those voting in protest would drift away. |
Or the protest vote would be even stronger, it's not like anything has improved and disregard of their protest may sting them to vote the same again.
Antagonising an angry swarm of bees will just get you stung again. [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 10:37]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:19 - Apr 5 with 1522 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
It was interesting on Question time that the most shouty/ I'm not listening to you/I'm entitled, you lot voted wrong, I know more than you do. was a Labour Remainer
Lammy
It was not passion it was arrogance. [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 16:59]
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