| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 206207 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:50 - May 29 with 1684 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:05 - May 29 by derbyhoop |
When the UK was granted an extension to Oct 31 Donald Tusk asked us not to waste the time.
Since then, the PM has said she will step down and the Withdrawal Bill has been shelved. The Tory party are involved in a glorified beauty (ugly?) contest for a new leader, most of whom seem determined to promote a "no deal" Brexit. I prefer crash out, and will explain why.
Crash out means all treaties shall cease to apply, as per Art 50, para 3. That means trade arrangements with the EU, the CU and the SM just stop. So do, the 40+ deals with other countries that the EU had negotiated. Tariffs, although not significant in most sectors, will be applied. Agricultural products will be subject to 100% (rather than limited) checks at registered Border Inspection Points. Import/export licences will be needed, triggering customs delays. Travel documents will be scrutinised more carefully leading to delays at ports, airports and stations. Just see what happened at Gare du Nord in March. Professional qualifications will not be recognised, hurting the service sector which makes up 80% of the UK economy and where we have a significant surplus over the EU.
I firmly believe that leaving with a deal is a far better option than crashing out, for all the reasons outlined above.
The only deal on the table is the one the UK Government agreed in Nov 2018. Parliament has rejected it 3 times but the EU, understandably after 2 years of talks, is not prepared to negotiate any further. Unless the red lines change significantly it is dead in the water. Farage claims a mandate to be involved in the negotiations - but there aren't any and unlikely to be any in the near future.
So, it looks like the only 2 options are Revoke A50 and Remain or crash out without a deal in October. The latter is the default legal position.
Let's assume that no-deal happens.
The UK will want to negotiate trade agreements with various countries and trading blocs. Our biggest customer is the EU, so that would, surely, be the best place to start. Especially as there is almost complete convergence.
If we have left without a deal, then the first 3 items on the EU27's agenda will be the financial settlement, citizen's rights and the Irish border.
So, we'll have taken an irrevocable decision to get back to where we are now. |
"Our biggest customer is the EU, so that would, surely, be the best place to start. Especially as there is almost complete convergence. "
Surely if the EU were genuine in negotiations they would not have insisted on a withdrawal agreement before trade talks. Both could have taken place in parallel. At the moment the EU could get their withdrawal agreement then play hard ball over trade. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:58 - May 29 with 1611 views | AnonymousR |
What is "genuine in negotiations"?
If it's stating their position and sticking to it, they appear to have done that. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:03 - May 29 with 1602 views | loftboy |
Funny how a private prosecution against Boris has come out the week he said he’ll run for PM and stated we will leave with a no deal in October. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:20 - May 29 with 1586 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:58 - May 29 by AnonymousR |
What is "genuine in negotiations"?
If it's stating their position and sticking to it, they appear to have done that. |
Stating what you want and sticking to it is not a negotiation let alone a genuine negotiation. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:29 - May 29 with 1576 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:03 - May 29 by loftboy |
Funny how a private prosecution against Boris has come out the week he said he’ll run for PM and stated we will leave with a no deal in October. |
This could really open a can of worms. Surely it is the public who should decide whether to believe what a politician is saying rather than the courts. If found guilty a dangerous precedent would have been set. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:44 - May 29 with 1552 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:20 - May 29 by QPR_John |
Stating what you want and sticking to it is not a negotiation let alone a genuine negotiation. |
Sort of like the red lines which were put in place by the government then? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:55 - May 29 with 1537 views | kensalriser |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:32 - May 29 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
You mean half out. or out but not really out, with the EU still having a say on what we can or can't do.
Remainers still would not be happy, they want us all in not half in, right? |
The close referendum result indicates that a reasonable solution would be to leave, but only just. Even though personally I don't want to leave at all, I can't really argue with the legitimacy of that interpretation.
There were lots on the leave side before the referendum saying that we would still have a very close relationship, we'd have a deal similar to Norway etc, but now the goalposts seemed to have moved to no deal which literally no one was proposing three years ago. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - May 29 with 1530 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:55 - May 29 by kensalriser |
The close referendum result indicates that a reasonable solution would be to leave, but only just. Even though personally I don't want to leave at all, I can't really argue with the legitimacy of that interpretation.
There were lots on the leave side before the referendum saying that we would still have a very close relationship, we'd have a deal similar to Norway etc, but now the goalposts seemed to have moved to no deal which literally no one was proposing three years ago. |
It’s pretty much what Cameron said we were voting for, leaving the custom union, leaving the trade union, he was probably trying to make it as unappealing as possible and it back fired on him big time, add that to Theresa Mays leave means leave rhetoric and I think it’s quite obvious what we were voting/voted for. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - May 29 with 1531 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:44 - May 29 by AnonymousR |
Sort of like the red lines which were put in place by the government then? |
But they were criticised for that whereas you seem to think the EUs red lines are OK | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:32 - May 29 with 1496 views | AnonymousR |
I have no comment on the value of either side's red lines.
If the government hasn't moved their red lines though, then to use your terms, they've not been genuinely negotiating either. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:35 - May 29 with 1493 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - May 29 by loftboy |
It’s pretty much what Cameron said we were voting for, leaving the custom union, leaving the trade union, he was probably trying to make it as unappealing as possible and it back fired on him big time, add that to Theresa Mays leave means leave rhetoric and I think it’s quite obvious what we were voting/voted for. |
It was made unappealing since it is in stark terms unappealing. The Customs Union and Single Market offer UK firms considerable access to sell into the EU. Allied to significantly reduced costs and administration it's not unreasonable to suggest it'd be unpleasant to leave.
Any agreement with the EU short of full membership in the CU and SM will offer significantly less access, especially in services. Less access would be unappealing for many. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:41 - May 29 with 1482 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - May 29 by loftboy |
It’s pretty much what Cameron said we were voting for, leaving the custom union, leaving the trade union, he was probably trying to make it as unappealing as possible and it back fired on him big time, add that to Theresa Mays leave means leave rhetoric and I think it’s quite obvious what we were voting/voted for. |
And that's the thing, that pamphlet that went out to every household was very clear. Leave means leave, but ever since Remainers just won't accept it. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:47 - May 29 with 1472 views | colinallcars |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:29 - May 29 by QPR_John |
This could really open a can of worms. Surely it is the public who should decide whether to believe what a politician is saying rather than the courts. If found guilty a dangerous precedent would have been set. |
Johnson told barefaced lies whilst holding public office but I suppose most politicians have done that. However, in this case if by some miracle it stopped him becoming PM, then I'd be all for it.
we've all been arguing the pros and cons of leaving but the by product is Johnson becoming PM which frightens the life out of me. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:52 - May 29 with 1462 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:56 - May 29 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Never really watch ITV unless it's some drama series like Hatton garden on catchup.
I mean they had Jeremy Kyle (Remain) for years, you must be missing looking down on the scum on there. |
Quite liked a bit of Jezza occasionsally but some episodes were just a bit awkward and sad.
If he’d been a Leaver no doubt half a dozen posters would’ve been on here in tears claiming it part of the great Remain conspiracy.
If people want to have this “just tell them where to stick their £39bn attitude” then that’s their right, but it’s honestly a bit of a shame so many still have this attitude that it’s them rather than us who are at fault for the carnage of the last three years. Just my opinion, obviously. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:55 - May 29 with 1454 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:47 - May 29 by colinallcars |
Johnson told barefaced lies whilst holding public office but I suppose most politicians have done that. However, in this case if by some miracle it stopped him becoming PM, then I'd be all for it.
we've all been arguing the pros and cons of leaving but the by product is Johnson becoming PM which frightens the life out of me. |
Great, I can sue May for saying over 100 times Leave means Leave if we don't. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 20:13 - May 29 with 1437 views | paulparker |
Cant wait till we get to see Blair and Campbell in court (aka murder incorporated) for their lies resulting in a phony war and thousands of lives lost for fcuk all
Or maybe Keith vaz for using illegal foreign man whores and class A drugs |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:16 - May 29 with 1360 views | Northernr |
Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.
Page sixty-fcking-four. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:19 - May 29 with 1355 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:32 - May 29 by AnonymousR |
I have no comment on the value of either side's red lines.
If the government hasn't moved their red lines though, then to use your terms, they've not been genuinely negotiating either. |
But surely the withdrawal agreement is an example that the government has moved on its red lines. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:40 - May 29 with 1333 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:16 - May 29 by Northernr |
Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.
Page sixty-fcking-four. |
Yeah a bit boring so lets spice it up a bit
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:44 - May 29 with 1323 views | colinallcars |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:40 - May 29 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Yeah a bit boring so lets spice it up a bit
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I thought someone would post this. As always, the Twitter crowd are up in arms. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:44 - May 29 with 1323 views | AnonymousR |
How so?
The red lines were:
Out of the Single Market
Out of the Customs Union
Ending free movement
The WA supported all of these and the EU agreed. What the EU insists upon is that any post-Brexit trade agreement will require, as a precondition, the Irish Backstop. This is to protect the integrity of the remaining countries in the EU. Seems reasonable. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:09 - May 30 with 1177 views | traininvain |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:40 - May 29 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Yeah a bit boring so lets spice it up a bit
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Maybe that's the solution, London to become independent and the rest of the UK to leave the EU.
We did have an overwhelming majority in London of c60% remain. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:37 - May 30 with 1159 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:09 - May 30 by traininvain |
Maybe that's the solution, London to become independent and the rest of the UK to leave the EU.
We did have an overwhelming majority in London of c60% remain. |
And there lays the problem , our MP’s are so Londoncentric that they think that whatever happens in London the rest of the country thinks the same, if Corbyn bows to pressure and backs a second referendum then most of his mp’s I’m the north of the country will be on the dole after the next election. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:53 - May 30 with 1137 views | jonno |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:16 - May 29 by Northernr |
Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.
Page sixty-fcking-four. |
Like the Westminster Parliament! |  | | |
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