Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Seven gone from Labour 10:28 - Feb 18 with 19159 viewsDWQPR

Three more than went to form the SDP back in 1981. Interesting times for the Labour Party and for politics in general.

Poll: Where will Clive put QPR in his new season preview

1
Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 with 2078 viewsDorse

Seven gone from Labour on 00:14 - Feb 19 by johncharles

Bugger, down arrowed by mistake.
That would be the Luciana Berger that was parachuted into a safe Liverpool seat . The same Ms Berger who didn’t know who Bill Shankley was ?
Yeh, that’s the one.


What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians!

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

0
Seven gone from Labour on 08:10 - Feb 19 with 2058 viewsMetallica_Hoop

I was invited to a Fabianist newsletter launch/party once by a girl at King's on the premise I didn't get drunk or talk politics.... oops.

I don't think I endeared myself to them

Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent

0
Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 with 2031 viewsGloryHunter

Seven gone from Labour on 17:20 - Feb 18 by robith

@FDC didn't want to quote the whole message as it was large

But it's deeply worrying to me that a member of a group who have left Labour citing concerns on antisemitism then start making speeches about "left wing intellectuals" like that isn't an antisemitic trope


Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly.
2
Seven gone from Labour on 08:40 - Feb 19 with 1980 views2Thomas2Bowles

..
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 8:44]

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

0
Seven gone from Labour on 09:07 - Feb 19 with 1945 viewsrobith

Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 by GloryHunter

Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly.


There is definitely an element of the "crank left" that come along with Corbyn because of his time on the fringes with conspiracy theories which have an obvious antisemitic bent. The challenge is now because the leadership haven't been strong enough, early enough on examples from party members, it allows any anonymous tosser on twitter griefing people to be painted as a Corbyn supporter.

As a party with an anti racist history it's Corbyn's weakest area imo because he has been too weak to boot out some people whose support he needs like that devil Chris Williamson (Derby MP - I think that's his name).

The small caveat there is there is also the Labour Friends of Israel group to counter the historic support of Palestinian solidarity in the party who are increasingly trying to position any criticism of Israel's actions as antisemitic.

But the real talk is the party needs to take open leadership on it. I don't think it's bad to accept that there is antisemitism in the party and that it needs to be taken on aggressively because imo the UK has a vein of antisemitism that runs through it and should be taken on everywhere.
1
Seven gone from Labour on 09:30 - Feb 19 with 1901 viewspastieR

Seven gone from Labour on 21:13 - Feb 18 by BazzaInTheLoft

Haven't seen anyone on the left hate the left in this thread?

Unless you think cronyism, removing Juries from the justice system, Water Privatisation, Bombing the Middle East, Saudi lobbying, and Voting against gay marriage are left ideals? For what it's worth there are worse still in the Labour party.

Some people (including some on here) seem to be of the opinion that 'Centrism' is

A) an ideology
B) morally superior

It's not, it's cowardice and usually just people who think 'i'm alright Jack' but too embarrassed to admit they have right wing views in front of their dinner party guests who actually have decent values and wish to make life better for others.


[Post edited 18 Feb 2019 21:23]


First off, I would love to have a more equal country & to see the end of the tories.
But what a load of tosh,
Cowardice more like realism,
You can't always get everything you want, you have to reach out and compromise sometimes. This utopian view is lovely, but in reality when the UK is skint, and soon to competing in a global world alone, you need some pragmatism
But It seems the left have reverted to an outdated and failed view of socialism from the 1970s. Which means they are unlikely to be elected anytime soon, even with the tories trying their best to hand it to labour on a plate.
I would love to see a new approach from the labour that has some fresh ideas to how to tackle inequality but it seems we're either stuck between Blarite new labour soundbite, or momentum who seem to happy to be moral winners, rather than actually delivering and improving peoples lives
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 9:34]
4
Seven gone from Labour on 09:38 - Feb 19 with 1888 viewsrobith

Given that one of their main aims is a second referendum, the timing of the move seems bizarre? Given they were already useless to May, they're now an active detraction to Corbyn. And this close to the deadline. They've made themselves pretty irrelevant haven't they?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps-labour-independent-group?bftwuk&utm_

This is an interesting read - though it's still creeping me out that BuzzFeed's news machine seems to be driven by ex Guido Fawkes staffers
0
Seven gone from Labour on 09:44 - Feb 19 with 1878 viewsElHoop

Seven gone from Labour on 09:30 - Feb 19 by pastieR

First off, I would love to have a more equal country & to see the end of the tories.
But what a load of tosh,
Cowardice more like realism,
You can't always get everything you want, you have to reach out and compromise sometimes. This utopian view is lovely, but in reality when the UK is skint, and soon to competing in a global world alone, you need some pragmatism
But It seems the left have reverted to an outdated and failed view of socialism from the 1970s. Which means they are unlikely to be elected anytime soon, even with the tories trying their best to hand it to labour on a plate.
I would love to see a new approach from the labour that has some fresh ideas to how to tackle inequality but it seems we're either stuck between Blarite new labour soundbite, or momentum who seem to happy to be moral winners, rather than actually delivering and improving peoples lives
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 9:34]


I'd be quite happy to have a choice between a genuinely socialist Labour party and a genuinely capitalist Tory party, but we are offered neither. Nobody stands for anything much at all when you get down to it. If Labour just concentrated on inequality and the health service/social services then they'd win the next election, but they come with the same old baggage and the dodgy things at the bottom of the suitcase always get dragged out sooner or later. They want to hit the wealthy and those people will always dig out the dirt - Labour needs to build a small menu with no small print, but it's clearly beyond them. It's always been the same - either they deliver Blair/Brown style nothingness or failing that nothing at all.
0
Login to get fewer ads

Seven gone from Labour on 10:09 - Feb 19 with 1836 viewsjohncharles

Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 by Dorse

What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians!


Bill Shankley
Kevin Keegan
Steven Gerrard
Kenny Dalgleish
Ian Rush.

Strong and stable my arse.

1
Seven gone from Labour on 10:14 - Feb 19 with 1824 viewsElHoop

Seven gone from Labour on 10:09 - Feb 19 by johncharles

Bill Shankley
Kevin Keegan
Steven Gerrard
Kenny Dalgleish
Ian Rush.


Hopefully they could spell them right even if they don't have a clue who they are.
0
Seven gone from Labour on 10:30 - Feb 19 with 1796 viewsMetallica_Hoop

Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 by Dorse

What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians!


I can.

Malheur 10
Cornet
La Chouffe Blonde
Vedett
Corsendonk


Corsendonk... arrrrghhhh mmmmmmm nom nom nom.

Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent

3
Seven gone from Labour on 10:40 - Feb 19 with 1780 viewsFDC

Seven gone from Labour on 09:38 - Feb 19 by robith

Given that one of their main aims is a second referendum, the timing of the move seems bizarre? Given they were already useless to May, they're now an active detraction to Corbyn. And this close to the deadline. They've made themselves pretty irrelevant haven't they?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps-labour-independent-group?bftwuk&utm_

This is an interesting read - though it's still creeping me out that BuzzFeed's news machine seems to be driven by ex Guido Fawkes staffers


Yeah I keep finding I'm reading something by him and it's not a comfortable feeling , but he does seem to get the scoops. That article really gives the sense that these people are just not very bright, and don't have any strategic nous at all.

As someone else said the other day, it's really odd how this is all straight out of the In The Thick Of It, and yet Armando Iannucci and half the cast are all extremely vocal supporters of a new Sensible Centrist Party.
0
Seven gone from Labour on 10:48 - Feb 19 with 1762 viewsFDC

Seven gone from Labour on 09:07 - Feb 19 by robith

There is definitely an element of the "crank left" that come along with Corbyn because of his time on the fringes with conspiracy theories which have an obvious antisemitic bent. The challenge is now because the leadership haven't been strong enough, early enough on examples from party members, it allows any anonymous tosser on twitter griefing people to be painted as a Corbyn supporter.

As a party with an anti racist history it's Corbyn's weakest area imo because he has been too weak to boot out some people whose support he needs like that devil Chris Williamson (Derby MP - I think that's his name).

The small caveat there is there is also the Labour Friends of Israel group to counter the historic support of Palestinian solidarity in the party who are increasingly trying to position any criticism of Israel's actions as antisemitic.

But the real talk is the party needs to take open leadership on it. I don't think it's bad to accept that there is antisemitism in the party and that it needs to be taken on aggressively because imo the UK has a vein of antisemitism that runs through it and should be taken on everywhere.


I think that's a decent and fair summary.

It's a really toxic situation because both a) unfounded accusations of anti-semitism have become a weapon for cynically attacking the Labour Party, and b) there is an issue with anti-semitism in the Labour Party, are true.

If you spend any time at all organising on the left you come across cranks and weirdos who fall in to and become comfortable in 'the scene'. Unfortunately these kinds of people are less interested in developing their politics than they are smoking weed and sharing conspiracy theories. And of course Palestine has long been a cause for the left, and rightly so. But again, without a developed politics that can come to a nuanced position on these issues, it's unfortunately quite easy to fall into conspiracy.

I've got annoyed with people quite a few times on here for spouting what I regard as conspiracy, and it's partly for this reason. It's just so corrosive to genuinely transformative politics.

A Jewish girl who I was friends with at uni was in to hanging around with 'alternative' types and liked the aesthetics of left-wing campus politics. She knew that I was an activist and involved in organising, and decided she wanted to get involved. The organisation I was a part of had a policy of interviewing new members as a security measure (this was during the Spy Cops fall out). I interviewed her and the first thing she said was "yeah I'm actually quite well read on political theory, I know that basically the Rothschild's control everything". This was an intelligent, Jewish PhD student.

There's no simple answer to addressing this, and part of the problem is that the extent to which this stuff goes in Labour is wildly overstated. I mean, the Tory's accusing Labour of racism is beyond hypocritical. But, I do think part of the Corbyn project should be about political education. This needs to happen at a CLP level, and think over time it will.
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 10:52]
0
Seven gone from Labour on 10:54 - Feb 19 with 1745 viewsjohncharles

Seven gone from Labour on 10:14 - Feb 19 by ElHoop

Hopefully they could spell them right even if they don't have a clue who they are.


Whoops, OD on the E’s 👀
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 10:55]

Strong and stable my arse.

0
Seven gone from Labour on 11:11 - Feb 19 with 1705 views2Thomas2Bowles

Labour is far more diverse in their membership than the Tories
Far more "tinge" in their ranks

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

1
Seven gone from Labour on 11:34 - Feb 19 with 1659 views2Thomas2Bowles

Funny how this 7 are all white apart from the one with a funny tinge
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 11:41]

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

2
Seven gone from Labour on 11:47 - Feb 19 with 1628 views2Thomas2Bowles

Letting that Derek Hatton back into the party is a bit contentious

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

0
Seven gone from Labour on 11:52 - Feb 19 with 1615 viewsrobith

Seven gone from Labour on 11:47 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles

Letting that Derek Hatton back into the party is a bit contentious


Not being fully up on who he was, I was guilty cackling at someone in the comments underneath a tweet about it replying "Announce Stalin"
1
Seven gone from Labour on 11:55 - Feb 19 with 1597 views2Thomas2Bowles

Seven gone from Labour on 11:52 - Feb 19 by robith

Not being fully up on who he was, I was guilty cackling at someone in the comments underneath a tweet about it replying "Announce Stalin"


Stalin helped win a war Hatton only starts them

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

0
Seven gone from Labour on 11:57 - Feb 19 with 1593 viewsFDC

Seven gone from Labour on 11:55 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles

Stalin helped win a war Hatton only starts them


You are mistaken, Winston Churchill saw off the Germans single-handed
0
Seven gone from Labour on 11:58 - Feb 19 with 1577 views2Thomas2Bowles

Seven gone from Labour on 11:57 - Feb 19 by FDC

You are mistaken, Winston Churchill saw off the Germans single-handed


Villain!!
[Post edited 19 Feb 2019 11:59]

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

0
Seven gone from Labour on 12:21 - Feb 19 with 1532 viewsDorse

Seven gone from Labour on 11:11 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles

Labour is far more diverse in their membership than the Tories
Far more "tinge" in their ranks


Tinge? Bloody auto-correct.

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

1
Seven gone from Labour on 12:28 - Feb 19 with 1505 views2Thomas2Bowles

Seven gone from Labour on 12:21 - Feb 19 by Dorse

Tinge? Bloody auto-correct.


I think it's the "new" word for Angela Smith's people of colour

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

0
Seven gone from Labour on 13:48 - Feb 19 with 1391 viewsplasmahoop

Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 by GloryHunter

Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly.


A lot of it is social media based, abuse aimed at lucianaberger etc. She also received death threats before the party conference. Corbyn refused to condemn, and then there was the Palestinian terrorist wreath laying incident. The party has now adopted the international definition of anti semitism, but reluctantly.
If you Google Labour party anti semitism there is quite a lot there, explaining it much better than me
0
Seven gone from Labour on 16:16 - Feb 19 with 1292 viewsGloucs_R

Seven gone from Labour on 21:42 - Feb 18 by 2Thomas2Bowles

As lovely as they make it all sound, they have no chance same as the Liberals


I support QPR so know all about following a hopeless cause 😉

Poll: Warburton, What's next?

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024