| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo 16:54 - Apr 16 with 24190 views | loftboy |
All my deliveries were in W1, SW1 and SE1, drove past the shell building, it’s covered in graffiti, ended up with an hours overtime as it took me best part of two hours to get back to East London from Victoria.
So one big question, how is causing massive traffic jams good for the environment?
My company has just replaced its entire fleet of 100 vans with ultra low emission vans, all buses are now super green, so businesses seem to be doing their bit. Just seems senseless to me. |  |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:14 - Apr 17 with 1979 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I thought this was a good thing until I saw it gave SteveC the hump, now I think it’s a FANTASTIC thing. [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 9:16]
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:19 - Apr 17 with 1962 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 08:40 - Apr 17 by kropotkin41 |
You lot are so funny. LOL.
I have some pretty fundamental criticisms of the ER, I believe their approach is naive.
Still, I'm afraid the climate breakdown science is very clear, and, if you're at all prone to being terrified, to be approached with caution.
Fortunately, because I am of the opinion that it's too late to avoid a global catastrophe, and that capitalism is as incapable as any hierarchical society have ever been of reforming itself meaningfully, I don't care what people think about the issues. I can have a good laugh at climate change deniers and the critics of principled people who really believe they can protest us to a different outcome.
We, my friends, are royally fcuked. The Earth system is moving into a different state and it's not clear whether human habitat will be widely or at all available afterwards. Sitting in a traffic jam because of the ER is the least of your problems. |
13 YOs getting self organised for causes they believe in (especially critical ones like climate change) is fantastic and naivety is a given.
We’re are going to have some amazing MPs / TUs in 10 years time. All I was worried about at that age was my Mum looking under my bed! | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:42 - Apr 17 with 1909 views | FDC |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 08:40 - Apr 17 by kropotkin41 |
You lot are so funny. LOL.
I have some pretty fundamental criticisms of the ER, I believe their approach is naive.
Still, I'm afraid the climate breakdown science is very clear, and, if you're at all prone to being terrified, to be approached with caution.
Fortunately, because I am of the opinion that it's too late to avoid a global catastrophe, and that capitalism is as incapable as any hierarchical society have ever been of reforming itself meaningfully, I don't care what people think about the issues. I can have a good laugh at climate change deniers and the critics of principled people who really believe they can protest us to a different outcome.
We, my friends, are royally fcuked. The Earth system is moving into a different state and it's not clear whether human habitat will be widely or at all available afterwards. Sitting in a traffic jam because of the ER is the least of your problems. |
We're very close to the point of no return but not quite yet. I'm in nearly complete agreement with you, but still retain the slimmest of hopes that we've not fcked it beyond repair just yet. I have an 18 month old daughter, so have to really.
Having spent my whole activist life slagging off political parties, I've ended up throwing my lot in with the Labour partly for this reason (and also because, you know, I'm old now): the scale and urgency of the situation requires state actors. It's imperfect, but we don't have time for anything else as far as I can see. Whilst Labour haven't come out clearly enough for a green new deal, the Alternative Models of Ownership report published before the last GE and the Economics for the Many book edited by McDonnell last year indicate quite strongly that they are amenable to being pushed further in this direction. There's now a Labour For A Green New Deal group organising Labour activists to pass model motions etc.
None of this is any where near sufficient of cause, but at some point there will be a really dramatic, impossible-to-ignore climate event that will hopefully give the political establishment a serious jolt, and send it in to a panic. At that point it's socialism or barbarism I reckon.
The ideas lying around will be important, so extra-parliamentary work by think tanks and activists is important -- the likes of ER have a role here. But most important -- or certainly as important -- is having governments in place that are not completely wedded to neoliberal capitalism, as a prerequisite for the kind of dramatic action that is necessary.
I've been a critic of George Monbiot in the past, but hearing someone on prime time BBC saying that the situation requires overthrowing capitalism was a refreshing dose of realism.
[Post edited 17 Apr 2019 9:50]
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:48 - Apr 17 with 1872 views | TheChef |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:42 - Apr 17 by FDC |
We're very close to the point of no return but not quite yet. I'm in nearly complete agreement with you, but still retain the slimmest of hopes that we've not fcked it beyond repair just yet. I have an 18 month old daughter, so have to really.
Having spent my whole activist life slagging off political parties, I've ended up throwing my lot in with the Labour partly for this reason (and also because, you know, I'm old now): the scale and urgency of the situation requires state actors. It's imperfect, but we don't have time for anything else as far as I can see. Whilst Labour haven't come out clearly enough for a green new deal, the Alternative Models of Ownership report published before the last GE and the Economics for the Many book edited by McDonnell last year indicate quite strongly that they are amenable to being pushed further in this direction. There's now a Labour For A Green New Deal group organising Labour activists to pass model motions etc.
None of this is any where near sufficient of cause, but at some point there will be a really dramatic, impossible-to-ignore climate event that will hopefully give the political establishment a serious jolt, and send it in to a panic. At that point it's socialism or barbarism I reckon.
The ideas lying around will be important, so extra-parliamentary work by think tanks and activists is important -- the likes of ER have a role here. But most important -- or certainly as important -- is having governments in place that are not completely wedded to neoliberal capitalism, as a prerequisite for the kind of dramatic action that is necessary.
I've been a critic of George Monbiot in the past, but hearing someone on prime time BBC saying that the situation requires overthrowing capitalism was a refreshing dose of realism.
[Post edited 17 Apr 2019 9:50]
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Well yeah. But it's still George Monbiot. |  |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:00 - Apr 17 with 1866 views | BuckR |
Wonder how they all got two weeks off work to do these protests? Oh wait none of them work and are all scroungers |  | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:01 - Apr 17 with 1864 views | loftus77 |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:00 - Apr 17 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
The good news is, the Earth will manage very well without us till the Sun burns it up in 3/5 Billion years |
Just in time for our new stadium, me thinks.... | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:02 - Apr 17 with 1857 views | FDC |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:00 - Apr 17 by BuckR |
Wonder how they all got two weeks off work to do these protests? Oh wait none of them work and are all scroungers |
Mostly hippy poshos to be honest, but thanks for your thoughts. | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:13 - Apr 17 with 1839 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:00 - Apr 17 by BuckR |
Wonder how they all got two weeks off work to do these protests? Oh wait none of them work and are all scroungers |
13 year old scroungers 😆 | | | |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:26 - Apr 17 with 1824 views | stevec |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:14 - Apr 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I thought this was a good thing until I saw it gave SteveC the hump, now I think it’s a FANTASTIC thing. [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 9:16]
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You get on with building your gulags (gulp).
Bazza, anyone who wants real power knows the thing that works best is FEAR.
Striking fear into ordinary people.
On it's grandest scale it's why, for thousands of years, we've had religion.
As religion, certainly in the Western world, loses it's grip those that want power will look for a new abstract, something unsubstantiated, something they can only ever 'predict'. And that new abstract is climate change.
Much like religion, it has it's plus points. In this case, cleaner air. I'm all for it. Plastic for instance, I'd be happy to see a world wide ban implemented on the manufacture of plastics that are not biodegradable. Those sort of things can be substantiated, things that would make the world we live in a better place.
Unfortunately the soothsayers in society seem more interested in the apocalyptic interpretations of climate change. Like I say, fear. And the sort of people who take over when fear wins.
For all the critics on here, still nobody has pointed me in the direction of any land that has yet permanently disappeared below sea level. Apparently there are always 'signs of it' i'm told, just no actual happenings. *(Please don't use Tsunami's as a reference, I think I'll fall off my chair).
For those maybe on the fence, stop worrying and try this.
This long weekend perhaps, go out to the country side. Stand in a field and just stare all around you. Look at the trees, the land, the grass. Look up at the sky, the clouds, the sunlight (hopefully). And then appreciate not only what you have around you, but appreciate the fact that you personally paid absolutely no part whatsoever in the presence you are observing.
That's how small and insignificant we all are. Just enjoy it. |  | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:32 - Apr 17 with 1815 views | simmo |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 09:19 - Apr 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
13 YOs getting self organised for causes they believe in (especially critical ones like climate change) is fantastic and naivety is a given.
We’re are going to have some amazing MPs / TUs in 10 years time. All I was worried about at that age was my Mum looking under my bed! |
Exactly, people dismissing this because a lot of the protesters are young or schoolkids - well it's because it's their future that's being changed, their children's lives that will be affected. It doesn't matter as much to older people who as we've seen repeatedly in recent years, are happy to live out their remaining years with the ladder pulled up.
Young people taking action will also mean naivety and mistakes, but it's great how socially aware that the youth are in comparison to years ago and how willing they are to be the change they want to see. Whether it will actually change anything or not is a different story... [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 10:37]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:36 - Apr 17 with 1774 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:00 - Apr 17 by BuckR |
Wonder how they all got two weeks off work to do these protests? Oh wait none of them work and are all scroungers |
Half term, why some have their kids with them
I wonder how many are teachers |  |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:40 - Apr 17 with 1787 views | stevec |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:32 - Apr 17 by simmo |
Exactly, people dismissing this because a lot of the protesters are young or schoolkids - well it's because it's their future that's being changed, their children's lives that will be affected. It doesn't matter as much to older people who as we've seen repeatedly in recent years, are happy to live out their remaining years with the ladder pulled up.
Young people taking action will also mean naivety and mistakes, but it's great how socially aware that the youth are in comparison to years ago and how willing they are to be the change they want to see. Whether it will actually change anything or not is a different story... [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 10:37]
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I am deeply worried how young people are being manipulated these days by forces that they will eventually find didn't actually have their interests at heart.
Back in the 70's the young as we were then had a very much self styled radicalism, for the young by the young.
Nowadays far too many young people are being what I would term 'politically groomed', forming a mild radicalism based on what their slightly elders are informing them.
It's wrong on so many levels. | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:47 - Apr 17 with 1772 views | Hadders |
Looking beyond their hippy clobber straight out of the Healing Field at Glastonbury (circa 1986), I think I might join them. I like how they're trying to interrupt the conversation: BrexitbrexitbrexitbrexitbrexitbrexTHE F@CKING PLANET'S DYING!!!! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DROWN!!!! Interesting how it's latter-day hippies speaking up for science, too. For all the bantz, science says this crisis is real. [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 10:48]
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:59 - Apr 17 with 1743 views | FDC |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:32 - Apr 17 by simmo |
Exactly, people dismissing this because a lot of the protesters are young or schoolkids - well it's because it's their future that's being changed, their children's lives that will be affected. It doesn't matter as much to older people who as we've seen repeatedly in recent years, are happy to live out their remaining years with the ladder pulled up.
Young people taking action will also mean naivety and mistakes, but it's great how socially aware that the youth are in comparison to years ago and how willing they are to be the change they want to see. Whether it will actually change anything or not is a different story... [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 10:37]
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The left-ward shift in the 'youth' is interesting. Firstly, 'youth' is misleading, because the cut-off (in very broad strokes of course) seems to be some where around late-middle-age. Secondly, the received wisdom that people get more right wing as they get in to adulthood seems to be incorrect in the current context, perhaps because the traditional trimmings of adulthood -- secure job, home ownership, pension pot -- are increasingly unavailable to millenials and younger. Note: millenials are now middle-aged, and yet the term is still used as a shorthand for being young. Quite telling imo.
Basically, it's probably less to do with age and more to do with economic factors. Class, if you will. [Post edited 17 Apr 2019 11:08]
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 11:26 - Apr 17 with 1706 views | BuckR |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:02 - Apr 17 by FDC |
Mostly hippy poshos to be honest, but thanks for your thoughts. |
You're welcome. So hippy poshos dont work? | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 11:29 - Apr 17 with 1701 views | BuckR |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:13 - Apr 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
13 year old scroungers 😆 |
So they were all 13? If London has come to a stand still and they have selfishly blocked roads and bridges due to a load of 13 year olds then we're even worse off than I thought | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 11:32 - Apr 17 with 1691 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 10:26 - Apr 17 by stevec |
You get on with building your gulags (gulp).
Bazza, anyone who wants real power knows the thing that works best is FEAR.
Striking fear into ordinary people.
On it's grandest scale it's why, for thousands of years, we've had religion.
As religion, certainly in the Western world, loses it's grip those that want power will look for a new abstract, something unsubstantiated, something they can only ever 'predict'. And that new abstract is climate change.
Much like religion, it has it's plus points. In this case, cleaner air. I'm all for it. Plastic for instance, I'd be happy to see a world wide ban implemented on the manufacture of plastics that are not biodegradable. Those sort of things can be substantiated, things that would make the world we live in a better place.
Unfortunately the soothsayers in society seem more interested in the apocalyptic interpretations of climate change. Like I say, fear. And the sort of people who take over when fear wins.
For all the critics on here, still nobody has pointed me in the direction of any land that has yet permanently disappeared below sea level. Apparently there are always 'signs of it' i'm told, just no actual happenings. *(Please don't use Tsunami's as a reference, I think I'll fall off my chair).
For those maybe on the fence, stop worrying and try this.
This long weekend perhaps, go out to the country side. Stand in a field and just stare all around you. Look at the trees, the land, the grass. Look up at the sky, the clouds, the sunlight (hopefully). And then appreciate not only what you have around you, but appreciate the fact that you personally paid absolutely no part whatsoever in the presence you are observing.
That's how small and insignificant we all are. Just enjoy it. |
'Let's not do anything until an actual country has disappeared under the sea - then we'll start planning!'
Next time you're banging on about sacking a manager, I'll remind you of this... 'We're not in the National League yet mate, where's the evidence this is all even happening?' |  |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 12:05 - Apr 17 with 1656 views | BlueandWhiteRiot |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 17:11 - Apr 16 by stevec |
Seem to have been listening to this apocalyptic climate change stuff for what must be about 30 years now. Can anyone point me in the direction of any part of Britain that has disappeared under water yet? Or, for that matter, the world.
i'm all for cleaning the air up, stuck in a jam along Marylebone Road on a hot summers day is distinctly unpleasant. But, as you say, business and local government seem to be making a proportional response to this.
Perhaps our protesters could hire a fleet of Electric Buses, jog on over to Beijing and dub graffiti all over their property. I'd pay good money to watch the response to that. |
i have grown up listening to what sciences have had to say on this all my life. And yes a lot of the biblical destruction have not come true. The fundamentals have. Where there is wet weather around the world it will get wetter and has. Where it is hottest around the world it will get hotter. This is really starting to show itself centenary | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 12:53 - Apr 17 with 1596 views | FDC |
This 'show me the evidence' rhetoric is increasingly idiotic. If you really care about this, there's an absolute mountain of it. The IPCC report for example is fairly concise, easy to read, and publicly available. But of course 'show me the evidence' at the current juncture is nothing to do with evidence. | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 12:55 - Apr 17 with 1591 views | Hadders |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 17:11 - Apr 16 by stevec |
Seem to have been listening to this apocalyptic climate change stuff for what must be about 30 years now. Can anyone point me in the direction of any part of Britain that has disappeared under water yet? Or, for that matter, the world.
i'm all for cleaning the air up, stuck in a jam along Marylebone Road on a hot summers day is distinctly unpleasant. But, as you say, business and local government seem to be making a proportional response to this.
Perhaps our protesters could hire a fleet of Electric Buses, jog on over to Beijing and dub graffiti all over their property. I'd pay good money to watch the response to that. |
I trust scientists, and the evidence is stark.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-th | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:04 - Apr 17 with 1565 views | stevec |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 12:05 - Apr 17 by BlueandWhiteRiot |
i have grown up listening to what sciences have had to say on this all my life. And yes a lot of the biblical destruction have not come true. The fundamentals have. Where there is wet weather around the world it will get wetter and has. Where it is hottest around the world it will get hotter. This is really starting to show itself centenary |
But these fundamentals have all previously happened hundreds and thousands of years before and, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure they had nothing to do with Shell or the Ford Motor Company.
As I attained to in an earlier email, this planet has self managed itself for about, let's see, four and half billion years now. Quite a long time as it goes.
Yet apparently left wingers and climate changers can join forces in the 21st Century and manage the Earth better than the Earth itself. | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:10 - Apr 17 with 1559 views | Lblock |
I’ve just seen the Extinction Revolution spokeskid walk off Sky news in disgust
He says due to the El Niño effect we’re in for another another long hot summer like last year.
This is excellent news as I took a punt on an outdoor rattan corner sofa in February which I’m currently lounging on in today’s lovely weather. It’s about time we had some clear seasons in this country and a few years of long hot summers well overdue in my book.
It’s just a shame we don’t have World Cups every year or outdoor raves like days gone by to use this new weather phenomenon more.
Good weather also great for the economy and with the pound weak even better for the home tourism and spin off industries
This El Niño could be the best signing we’ve made in many a decade |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:10 - Apr 17 with 1559 views | qprd |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 17:11 - Apr 16 by stevec |
Seem to have been listening to this apocalyptic climate change stuff for what must be about 30 years now. Can anyone point me in the direction of any part of Britain that has disappeared under water yet? Or, for that matter, the world.
i'm all for cleaning the air up, stuck in a jam along Marylebone Road on a hot summers day is distinctly unpleasant. But, as you say, business and local government seem to be making a proportional response to this.
Perhaps our protesters could hire a fleet of Electric Buses, jog on over to Beijing and dub graffiti all over their property. I'd pay good money to watch the response to that. |
Yes, there's a website called Google. I suggest you start there. Its not that difficult.
You're essentially using your own ignorance of the topic to justify why climate change is not a major issue
Later in this same thread, you talk about how "young people" are being politically groomed- the implication being that young people have dogmatically adopted certain views. Yet you somehow have formed an opinion on climate change despite, by your own admission, not even bothering to research the topic | | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:19 - Apr 17 with 1532 views | CroydonCaptJack |
I always think the Climate change protesters are well served by leaving grafitti everywhere. That really does get the message across that they want to look after the planet.
And you have to say it is really a bit rich us telling India and China etc to stop polluting the world given how long we have been doing it in the west. It is almost like we don't want them to catch up with us. |  | | |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:24 - Apr 17 with 1516 views | FDC |
| Got caught up big time today in the climate change demo on 13:10 - Apr 17 by qprd |
Yes, there's a website called Google. I suggest you start there. Its not that difficult.
You're essentially using your own ignorance of the topic to justify why climate change is not a major issue
Later in this same thread, you talk about how "young people" are being politically groomed- the implication being that young people have dogmatically adopted certain views. Yet you somehow have formed an opinion on climate change despite, by your own admission, not even bothering to research the topic |
Yes, a heady mix of some stone-cold classics
- "it's not like it used to be in my day"
- "well if I can't see it, it can't exist"
- "if you think differently to me you must be brainwashed"
etc | | | |
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