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What did people think of the last episode (The Bells)?
I've been quite surprised by the backlash against it.
Like loads of people, I got massively invested in GoT, decided to read the books, then got a bit disillusioned by the show when it moved past the source material. I posted a link on the Half Decent TV thread to a twitter thread about screen-writing styles, and how George RR Martin was basically writing characters, following them around, seeing what the ended up doing, with few actual pre-determined plot points. This makes the characters totally believable, and the shocking things they do all the more shocking. It also explains why he's struggled to finish the books (he once said in an interview something about "I'm having difficulty writing this because Daenerys is stuck in Essos and I need her in Westeros".)
The show writers, like all show writers with a deadline and a contract to fulfill, on the other hand are 'plotters', meaning they know where the story needs to go so they marshal the characters in to position. This is why, since leaving the Song of Ice and Fire book material behind, it feels quite different, and also why characters appear to teleport around Westeros where they would have taken a whole season travelling previously.
The thing is, this has been the case for years now, and it isn't like Daenerys turning into the mad queen hasn't been on the cards for ages anyway, so why all the outrage over the last episode? Any strong opinions?
Edit: And there were some genuinely excellent moment, like this
[Post edited 14 May 2019 14:01]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 18:03 - May 14 with 2515 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:27 - May 14 by robith
As someone who is an enormous fan of the books, this final season has been absolute garbage. A Song of Ice and Fire, and by proxy Game of Thrones, has always been a story that unfurled slowly. By truncating the final 2 seasons the change of pace makes it feel stupid, and it means that stuff happens far too quickly. I kinda lost hope for it after the dumb "Avengers steal a zombie" plot last year, shudder.
For example Dany turning. I would argue it hasn't really been foreshadowed because the show's POV was that all the bad things Dany did were justified because of her end goal, repeatedly stated of justice for all. So for her to turn full war criminal because of one 2 minute scene where Jon refuses to make out with her meant what should have been a harrowing development just had me going "....but why?" the whole time.
Likewise - Jaime has been on a seven year redemption arc that he abandons in one 30 second scene to go to Cersei to....die in a cavern?
Euron becomes a teleportation device to aide the plot. I almost turned it off when he appeared on that beach.
Arya one hits the Night King. Cool I guess, but what about the Azor Ahai prophesy? If it's not true, cool, but it would be nice for it to be mentioned.
The Behind the Scenes with the writers on which when asked how Dany got ambushed they said "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet". Oh, ok then.
The coffee cup, Jaime having both his hands back, getting Gendry's surname wrong - it's all so sloppy.
What is the point of Bran? In fact what was the point of the Others? All seems so pointless.
Endless fake death fake outs
Varys, the master of spiders, who survived the Mad King goes up to Jon on a beach and goes "Hey Jon, wanna commit some treason?"
Jon tries to defeat the ice dragon by shouting at it
Dany's army got obliterated in episode 3, but now appears even bigger in episode 5? Euron's scorpions take out a dragon NBD, but this week one dragon destroys a whole city?
Where has the rest of the country gone? Feels like only Winterfell and King's Landing exist any more
Why is Tyrion so stupid now? Why is Jon so stupid, his plans make no sense.
Ever sense they moved past the immediate source material they hammer everything so hard and literally. I swear Tyrion said "bells" about 40 times before the battle.
The actors and even GRRM are openly criticising it in public. D&D couldn't care less. HBO offered them whatever they wanted. They chose a rush job in 12 episodes so they could go do Star Wars. GRRM is never gonna finish those books so this is all I'm gonna get.
It looks gorgeous, the score is out of this world, but in a show that was all about the characters they've thrown all development and consistency out the window to hit plot points without enough set up. I know it's just a show, but I'm a weirdo fantasy nerd and those books and the pals and the experiences I've had from them have been amazing and my resolution to that story is two hacks going "Dany commits genocide because shes sad" is absolutely crushing.
This is good and quite accurate.
For me it's still really good and better than most other things out there, but all my favourite things about GoT have been abandoned in the last 2 seasons so all I am left with is the characters I like, now they're starting to abandon their development I'm left with not much except how cool some of it looks and the score which is always on point.
Americans absolutely wetting themselves about everything is also a ballache, the reaction videos going around online really boil my piss.
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 18:14 - May 14 with 2486 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 17:37 - May 14 by A40Bosh
"The long night was dreadful I thought my TV was on the blink so dark, someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter"
I don't have Sky Atlantic on Virgin so I had to fork out for Now TV and try and watch on my phone on the train in the morning after an episode was broadcast. I thought my new iPhone was knackered until my eldest told me she had the same problem and she was at home and sent it to Chrome Cast on our big tele. Shocking to try and watch.
Have to say that I agree with all the points above. It took me a few years to get in to GOT and then watched it and caught up before Season 6 started.
The Bells was ridiculous. Really bad now I reflect on it. Dany turning that quickly either as a result of being rejected by her lover/nephew or perhaps realising that once word got out she had a rival to the throne she needed to act quick and assert her authority was pretty lame.
Mate, I had to stand next to the 40" with a torch just to get a peek.
I feel I'm on an island here, but... I quite liked The Bells. Yes, obviously there are some shite moments, probably because the show runners have checked out, which is a massive shame. But a lot of those felt caused by previous shortcuts, which are a problem with old episodes rather than this one.
I get the main plot point rationale, Dany flips, allegedly when she sees the red keep. But they probably could have just had her head directly for that dragon blazing and had the same impact rather than a bizarre systematic burning street by street.
I enjoyed most of the rest of it, visually stunning and a great score.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 20:10 - May 14 with 2397 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 20:05 - May 14 by Match82
I feel I'm on an island here, but... I quite liked The Bells. Yes, obviously there are some shite moments, probably because the show runners have checked out, which is a massive shame. But a lot of those felt caused by previous shortcuts, which are a problem with old episodes rather than this one.
I get the main plot point rationale, Dany flips, allegedly when she sees the red keep. But they probably could have just had her head directly for that dragon blazing and had the same impact rather than a bizarre systematic burning street by street.
I enjoyed most of the rest of it, visually stunning and a great score.
Music score
Ramin Djawadi is a genius.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 21:02 - May 14 with 2374 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 18:03 - May 14 by PunteR
I havnt seen any of them. Is it really that good?
Mate, despite controversies over S5-S8, the first four seasons are superb. I'm not a particular fantasy fan, and game to GoT quite late. And then _binged_ hard. I think we watched the whole of S4 in one night. It's a slow burner though, you need to sit firm for most of the first season whilst you get a handle on who's who.
Re The Long Night, lots of people have said that about the brightness but I didn't think it was a problem, in fact I thought it added to the atmosphere.
I think there's a bit of snobbery involved with the backlash. Yes, characters are seemingly teleporting around and making massive 180 degree turns in their personality but season 7 was the most entertaining season yet and I've thoroughly enjoyed season 8 (albeit ep 3 was a little bit of a let down).
Thing is, I've been watching this weekly rather than binging it and when you do that there are serious issues that have only disappeared since the show overtook the books.
1. Danaerys. For six seasons all you got from her was 'go to a city, liberate it, crowdsurf a bit, leave, liberate another city, crowdsurf a bit more, find out the previous city has gone back to the slavers, go back, liberate it'. It was super dull and because she had no link to the main continent where all the rest of the show was happening, it was exhausting to watch. Also, when better characters were getting shown every other episode, she was in every other scene it felt like.
2. Bran's six season camping trip. Rubbish. He only got interesting last season when he figured out what was up with Jon Snow.
3. Arya. Spent ages trying to be an assassin.
These stories all finally got good in s7 and s8 when the show stepped up its glacial pace and just got going. What it lacks in character development and realism, it makes up for in being entertaining and fun to watch.
I thoroughly enjoyed that last episode. That was great TV.
ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH MARTI THE REDEEMER WHO STRENGTHENS ME.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 10:19 - May 21 with 2015 views
I was pretty annoyed by it last night, it felt very anticlimatic, and some parts just daft, like Dany, Jon and Drogon in the throne room. Melting the throne pissed me off. And some scenes really felt like the actors were struggling, perhaps because they were being asked to perform out-of-character. The small council scene should have been amazing but felt really awkward. And the Song Of Ice Fire book, piss off. I know it's been speculated that something like that would happen, but come on.
In the half day since I've been thinking about how this might work in the book, should it ever appear, assuming the major plot points correspond. I think there is a version of this ending that works.
For example, Jon being brought back from the dead for no apparent reason and Arya rather than Jon killing the night king, and the Azor Ahai stuff. This works _if_ the point is that we all thought the big baddy was the Night King, and missed the fact that it was actually the beautiful blond girl who was doing all this brutal stuff in front of us but was able to justify it by claiming to be a liberator etc.
So actually the prophecy, Melisandre's interest in Jon, Bran saying "you were where you were supposed to be" etc works if it was about stopping Dany all along. In the show this felt rushed and difficult to buy in to, but could be made much more satisfying in the book.
There's loads of stuff that was just stupid. The stuff in the dragon pit should have been amazing but again felt awkward and illogical. Why did no one mention that actually Jon is the actual heir? Why did Grey Worm let Tyrion monologue like that? Why would Grey Worm let any of that conversation happen? And why would Jon need to go in to exile if the Unsullied were pissing off to Naath anyway?
Tyrion saying Bran had the best story is just blatant trolling.
At least Jon didn't get to be king. The gender politics of GoT have always been appalling but the world's drippiest man stopping a powerful woman from being queen because she had a tantrum after he refused to bone her wad bad enough without him being lauded as a the rightful ruler.
[Post edited 21 May 2019 11:16]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:17 - May 21 with 1953 views
I liked how the Unsullied were no questions asked committing war crimes, but then followed due process when Jon murdered their liberator
And as you say FDC, Tyrion is told he's not allowed to talk, but then undoes the entire system of government
Yara Greyjoy laughs at electing leaders WHEN IT IS WHAT THEY DO ON THE IRON ISLANDS.
Thematically, everything that happened made sense, and almost fit. The problem was the rushed nature of everything, and the cack handed execution made it feel like absolute garbage
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:24 - May 21 with 1935 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:17 - May 21 by robith
I liked how the Unsullied were no questions asked committing war crimes, but then followed due process when Jon murdered their liberator
And as you say FDC, Tyrion is told he's not allowed to talk, but then undoes the entire system of government
Yara Greyjoy laughs at electing leaders WHEN IT IS WHAT THEY DO ON THE IRON ISLANDS.
Thematically, everything that happened made sense, and almost fit. The problem was the rushed nature of everything, and the cack handed execution made it feel like absolute garbage
Ha yeah I'd not thought about that with Yara. To be fair do they cover that in the show, I can't remember.
One of my biggest gripes with the show is how bad (as in just irritating) Euron Greyjoy is, when his character in the book is bad-ass.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:31 - May 21 with 1922 views
I was running through the rough thoughts I have on where the book will go, and I guess the big issue for the show is they hated magic and wanted to make it as low fantasy as possible, whereas I think ultimately this is the story of magic leaving the world and so that's hard to get away from:
- On receiving the pink letter, Selyse and Mel burn Shireen to bring back Stannis,except he's still alive and inadvertently resurrect Jon Snow
- Stannis in secret cahoots with the Manderlys defeat the Boltons, whilst Lady Stoneheart carries out the Red Wedding 2.0 at the Twins with the help of Brienne and Jaime
- Cersei has a trial by combat and the Faith announce their champion is The Hound. He loses but kills The Mountain in the process. Cersei blows up the sept
- Young Griff takes the capital is beloved by all.
- Dany arrives in Westeros with Victarian, Tyrion et al, destroys the capital when the people don't take to her in the manner as Young Griff
- Euron blows his dragon horn which makes the wall collapse. The north makes a last stand at Winterfell vs the army of the dead. Stannis burns himself alive (he has foreseen this in Mel's fires) to hold them back
- They fight the dead at King's Landing (Dany has a vision of her refighting the battle of the Trident but the usuprer's men are all made of ice) - Bran wargs into the Mad King in the past to pass on the advice to Jaime - burn them all. Dany is more pivotal in their defeat
Now, I felt Arya was going to kill Dany as the Faceless Men want rid of the Targaryens as I feel balance needs to be brought back to the world. But Jon doing it has a thematic relevance I guess. I also think Arya is going to die and warg into Nymeria and live out her days running a wolf pack
Also forget the north, Sansa will be claimant to The Vale, The Riverlands and The North by the end. She'll have her own little kingdom
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:31 - May 21 with 1912 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:31 - May 21 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Even the dragon turned into a wimp, melting the thrown when its mum had just been killed and not frying the killer.
[Post edited 21 May 2019 11:32]
In legend, and throughout fantasy writing, Dragons are known for sagacity, understanding portents and a limited ability to see the future. My guess would be that Drogon knew who the rightful ruler was and denied himself the opportunity to fry Jon but took it out on the throne that Dany would have been sitting in to stop Jon taking her place. I agree with most of the points raised above regarding the finale, it was disappointing to say the least. A personal gripe of mine is, why re-introduce Nymeria and her new pack to the storyline a while back if it wasn't to have any bearing on future events? A number of you have said that you got heavily into the books and, with that in mind, I would like to direct you to a superb series with a similar feel to A Song of Fire & Ice but, IMVHO, superior to that series. It also has the added bonus that the series is complete The series is called Malazan, Book Of The Fallen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malazan_Book_of_the_Fallen
The grass is always greener.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 12:51 - May 21 with 1799 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 11:31 - May 21 by robith
I was running through the rough thoughts I have on where the book will go, and I guess the big issue for the show is they hated magic and wanted to make it as low fantasy as possible, whereas I think ultimately this is the story of magic leaving the world and so that's hard to get away from:
- On receiving the pink letter, Selyse and Mel burn Shireen to bring back Stannis,except he's still alive and inadvertently resurrect Jon Snow
- Stannis in secret cahoots with the Manderlys defeat the Boltons, whilst Lady Stoneheart carries out the Red Wedding 2.0 at the Twins with the help of Brienne and Jaime
- Cersei has a trial by combat and the Faith announce their champion is The Hound. He loses but kills The Mountain in the process. Cersei blows up the sept
- Young Griff takes the capital is beloved by all.
- Dany arrives in Westeros with Victarian, Tyrion et al, destroys the capital when the people don't take to her in the manner as Young Griff
- Euron blows his dragon horn which makes the wall collapse. The north makes a last stand at Winterfell vs the army of the dead. Stannis burns himself alive (he has foreseen this in Mel's fires) to hold them back
- They fight the dead at King's Landing (Dany has a vision of her refighting the battle of the Trident but the usuprer's men are all made of ice) - Bran wargs into the Mad King in the past to pass on the advice to Jaime - burn them all. Dany is more pivotal in their defeat
Now, I felt Arya was going to kill Dany as the Faceless Men want rid of the Targaryens as I feel balance needs to be brought back to the world. But Jon doing it has a thematic relevance I guess. I also think Arya is going to die and warg into Nymeria and live out her days running a wolf pack
Also forget the north, Sansa will be claimant to The Vale, The Riverlands and The North by the end. She'll have her own little kingdom
If only one thing of this comes to fruition please let it be Stannis' part - Stannis in the books is my favourite character by far, unlike the one dimensional joke they made him in the series. Same goes for Euron - in the books he's a genuinely scary proposition for the entire story as he attempts to achieve apotheosis through all the dark magic he has uncovered on his travels; in the series he's just good for the memes.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 13:10 - May 21 with 1778 views
has been at times essential viewing at others horrific. (See Birmingham home, first half, second half).
Like many others I thought the final series was too rushed, that said overall its made for terrific viewing. I would be amazed if we don't get a follow on.
Arya - what's west of westeros? Brann - I will try and find the dragon Greyworm - lets set sail to etc, etc.
Looking at the number of the unsullied soldiers at the end for a race that's supposedly castrated they reproduce quicker than rabbits...
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 13:10 - May 21 by headhoops
has been at times essential viewing at others horrific. (See Birmingham home, first half, second half).
Like many others I thought the final series was too rushed, that said overall its made for terrific viewing. I would be amazed if we don't get a follow on.
Arya - what's west of westeros? Brann - I will try and find the dragon Greyworm - lets set sail to etc, etc.
Looking at the number of the unsullied soldiers at the end for a race that's supposedly castrated they reproduce quicker than rabbits...
I know it's been said but, after The Long Night there were like 5 north men, 6 Unsullied including Grey Worm, and no Dothraki left... When Jon is trying to get to Bran and it's all going tits it's made to look like literally everyone is dead. But then suddenly at King's Landing there's 100s of Unsullied, loads of Dothraki etc.
Yeah Arya has definitely sailed off to the Land of Spin Offs. And there'll be a show where it's just Jon and Tormund cuddling Ghost beyond the wall.
Oh yeah - why is there still a Night's Watch to exile Jon too?
[Post edited 21 May 2019 13:36]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 13:41 - May 21 with 1753 views
Not as good as the Breaking Bad finale but way better than 'The Sopranos'.
Great music score again for the final season. If anyone is intetrested in that, check out the link below.
System of a Down and 'Game of Thrones' fans - your interests have finally intersected.
A recorded version of SOAD frontman Serj Tankian singing 'The Rains of Castamere' - the Lannister anthem that was sung at the Red Wedding - has finally been unveiled.
Although it never featured on the show, Tankian had previously guested on a live version of the song at composer Ramin Djawadi's request in 2017, but now the pristine studio version has been released. It has to be said that Tankian's voice is brilliantly suited to the eerie song, too.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:01 - May 21 with 1727 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 13:41 - May 21 by markrtid
Good game. Good game.
Not as good as the Breaking Bad finale but way better than 'The Sopranos'.
Great music score again for the final season. If anyone is intetrested in that, check out the link below.
System of a Down and 'Game of Thrones' fans - your interests have finally intersected.
A recorded version of SOAD frontman Serj Tankian singing 'The Rains of Castamere' - the Lannister anthem that was sung at the Red Wedding - has finally been unveiled.
Although it never featured on the show, Tankian had previously guested on a live version of the song at composer Ramin Djawadi's request in 2017, but now the pristine studio version has been released. It has to be said that Tankian's voice is brilliantly suited to the eerie song, too.
Ha, I love the Sopranos ending. Probably because it annoys so many people!
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 12:36 - May 21 by Esox_Lucius
In legend, and throughout fantasy writing, Dragons are known for sagacity, understanding portents and a limited ability to see the future. My guess would be that Drogon knew who the rightful ruler was and denied himself the opportunity to fry Jon but took it out on the throne that Dany would have been sitting in to stop Jon taking her place. I agree with most of the points raised above regarding the finale, it was disappointing to say the least. A personal gripe of mine is, why re-introduce Nymeria and her new pack to the storyline a while back if it wasn't to have any bearing on future events? A number of you have said that you got heavily into the books and, with that in mind, I would like to direct you to a superb series with a similar feel to A Song of Fire & Ice but, IMVHO, superior to that series. It also has the added bonus that the series is complete The series is called Malazan, Book Of The Fallen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malazan_Book_of_the_Fallen
You're the third person to recommend Malazan to me, but after a seven year wait for TWOW, and being burnt by a rubbish conclusion to the First Law Trilogy, I'm taking a serious break from fantasy series
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:11 - May 21 with 1650 views
Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:01 - May 21 by TheChef
Ha, I love the Sopranos ending. Probably because it annoys so many people!
I loved the Sopranos ending too. All the tension building and uncertainty of what's going to happen then fade to black leaving the viewer to decide if they'd been whacker or if Tony Soprano had been taken out. I've seen dissertation length essays about the ending.
People are still talking about the Sopranos ending 12 years later. I doubt people will be talking about the GOT ending this time next year.
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The series is called Malazan, Book Of The Fallen. 
