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Sort out our defence ,,,,, 20:31 - Sep 14 with 3770 viewsconnell10

......and we aint a bad team. Good in possession dodgy without the ball.

AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:35 - Sep 14 with 3076 viewsHunterhoop

Agree. But Toni today was mammoth. Destroyed their CF. He is on a different level of centre back to Barber and Hall. The idea he doesn’t start every game until May is baffling!
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:36 - Sep 14 with 3063 viewsdavman

I was convinced Kane would be first choice over Rangel this season, but he was pretty poor today and should have seen red just after half time, which would have cost us dear. Hall and Barbet benefitting from Leistner's presence, but I am surprised to see Toni being the main ball player at the back.

Fitness seemed to be a big issue today though - we seemed to wilt in the sun...

Can we go out yet?
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:37 - Sep 14 with 3056 viewsEsox_Lucius

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:35 - Sep 14 by Hunterhoop

Agree. But Toni today was mammoth. Destroyed their CF. He is on a different level of centre back to Barber and Hall. The idea he doesn’t start every game until May is baffling!


I thought Barbet was the pick of our defence today, BFG did very well in his defensive duties but made two horrible errors in possession, one of which could have cost us but for Lumley's quick thinking. Hall as a close second IMO.

The grass is always greener.

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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:44 - Sep 14 with 3009 viewsHunterhoop

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:37 - Sep 14 by Esox_Lucius

I thought Barbet was the pick of our defence today, BFG did very well in his defensive duties but made two horrible errors in possession, one of which could have cost us but for Lumley's quick thinking. Hall as a close second IMO.


And Barbet’s error and foul on 89 when he let Collins get behind him from a long keeper’s punt??

Exos, you are a knowledge man and I have lots of respect for your posts, but if you think Barber was better at CB today, IMO, you have no idea about defending.

Leistner marshalled that team. He also man marked Collins out of the game.

Lumley was at fault for the first, obviously.

Manning the second (switched off), but it was Barbet’s man who scored. Then he made that stupid foul in the last few minutes. Barbet’s distribution was also palpably worse!

Toni set up the second with a glorious pass, one of many.

If you think Barber (or anyone on that pitch today) was a better centre half than a Leistner, I am concerned for you.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:46 - Sep 14 with 2992 viewsHastings_Hoops

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:37 - Sep 14 by Esox_Lucius

I thought Barbet was the pick of our defence today, BFG did very well in his defensive duties but made two horrible errors in possession, one of which could have cost us but for Lumley's quick thinking. Hall as a close second IMO.


Was that in the first half when hall played him a hospital ball?

thought barbet put in some important blocks today.

Would like to see Wallace come in for hall or barbet for a couple of games to see how he looks, give them a rest and encourage them to sharpen up. Maybe Conor later in the season.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:52 - Sep 14 with 2958 viewsterryb

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:44 - Sep 14 by Hunterhoop

And Barbet’s error and foul on 89 when he let Collins get behind him from a long keeper’s punt??

Exos, you are a knowledge man and I have lots of respect for your posts, but if you think Barber was better at CB today, IMO, you have no idea about defending.

Leistner marshalled that team. He also man marked Collins out of the game.

Lumley was at fault for the first, obviously.

Manning the second (switched off), but it was Barbet’s man who scored. Then he made that stupid foul in the last few minutes. Barbet’s distribution was also palpably worse!

Toni set up the second with a glorious pass, one of many.

If you think Barber (or anyone on that pitch today) was a better centre half than a Leistner, I am concerned for you.


I agree with Exos, Barbet was the best defender on the pitch today!

If you want to pick on an error Hunter, look at Leistner ballsing up & nearly presenting Luton with a second just before half time.

Not that we should be looking at an individual error. Every player makes them in every game! Hall was the defender who wasn't quite at it today (if anyone was), but look at the chances we missed rather than a slip in defence.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 22:14 - Sep 14 with 2738 viewsHunterhoop

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:52 - Sep 14 by terryb

I agree with Exos, Barbet was the best defender on the pitch today!

If you want to pick on an error Hunter, look at Leistner ballsing up & nearly presenting Luton with a second just before half time.

Not that we should be looking at an individual error. Every player makes them in every game! Hall was the defender who wasn't quite at it today (if anyone was), but look at the chances we missed rather than a slip in defence.


I’m genuinely astounded at this.

There is a reason Q, P, and R blocks were singing the BFG chant in the first half twice and after the game! Nowt did Barbet. Walking out the ground, the same thi from several about how Leistner makes all the difference at the back,

Personally, I take a genuine interest in centre half performances. I was (a very limited) one. I absolutely despair is anyone doesn’t think Leistner was the best centre half on the pitch today, let alone our team! I’m pretty sure Collins would agree with me!
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 22:27 - Sep 14 with 2654 viewsquickpassrotter

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 22:14 - Sep 14 by Hunterhoop

I’m genuinely astounded at this.

There is a reason Q, P, and R blocks were singing the BFG chant in the first half twice and after the game! Nowt did Barbet. Walking out the ground, the same thi from several about how Leistner makes all the difference at the back,

Personally, I take a genuine interest in centre half performances. I was (a very limited) one. I absolutely despair is anyone doesn’t think Leistner was the best centre half on the pitch today, let alone our team! I’m pretty sure Collins would agree with me!


Leistner makes the difference. In this uncompromising league you need a central defender who does his job. Leistner is the man. No, he is not the footballing central defender (but still can play by the way) - he is the strength and the wall that we need. We look far stronger and resolute with him there. Thought that he played well again today. Want him there also for his character which is unquestionable.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 22:46 - Sep 14 with 2564 viewsted_hendrix

Back to the original statement "Sort out our defence ,,,,,"

We've a new Manager and pretty much a new squad we've currently played Nine games of what will probably be a Fifty game plus season, rightly or wrongly I've always used Ten games as a benchmark for a new Manager to see what is going on on the pitch, I'm tentatively confident that the Manager is well aware of the 'issues' we've got in defense for example in Nine games we've conceded some Sixteen goals without keeping a clean sheet which is a not too good statistic.
Our Manager is no mug and knows his football and i'm sure he'll be working on the defense as a matter of priority, the first clean sheet of the season is due the sooner it arrives the better but I'm sure we've got the players and training staff to address the problem.

That's how I see it anyway.

My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.

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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 23:03 - Sep 14 with 2516 viewsstevec

Actually thought Hall had a good game, Leinster too.

Barbet also good but vulnerable to far post crosses.

Honestly believe the daft foul committed near the end was largely due to a fear the keeper won’t be coming out for it. Lumley far too indecisive throughout and that’s the issue.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 23:22 - Sep 14 with 2433 viewsDavieQPR

The whole team got to cocky after going 3-0 up. Passes were going to where players were 10secs ago instead of looking. They stopped moving for the out ball. The final pass or running just stopped. But in that first 30mins no team in this division would have lived with us. Lumley's error changed the whole game.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 00:09 - Sep 15 with 2325 viewsnix

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 23:03 - Sep 14 by stevec

Actually thought Hall had a good game, Leinster too.

Barbet also good but vulnerable to far post crosses.

Honestly believe the daft foul committed near the end was largely due to a fear the keeper won’t be coming out for it. Lumley far too indecisive throughout and that’s the issue.


I think the reason we all think different defenders did well is that they all did at times. Hall did some important tackles. Leistner did some great headers, marked his forward well and did some really good passes/runs forward. And Barbet had a pretty good game too.

But, all three of them were prone to some poor mistakes in dangerous areas. And that is what we need to cut out. I'm not sure if they lose concentration, get complacent or what but they need to work on their consistency.

I think to a certain extent Warburton is prepared to allow a few mistakes in exchange for a more expansive game playing out of the back. But we should be able to close it down a bit when we are three nil up and moving towards half time! If only so our poor fans can actually enjoy one match without chewing their programmes for the last ten minutes.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 02:44 - Sep 15 with 2174 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 22:14 - Sep 14 by Hunterhoop

I’m genuinely astounded at this.

There is a reason Q, P, and R blocks were singing the BFG chant in the first half twice and after the game! Nowt did Barbet. Walking out the ground, the same thi from several about how Leistner makes all the difference at the back,

Personally, I take a genuine interest in centre half performances. I was (a very limited) one. I absolutely despair is anyone doesn’t think Leistner was the best centre half on the pitch today, let alone our team! I’m pretty sure Collins would agree with me!


Hunter, generally speaking I agree that BFG is a better defender than Barbet. Not only has his reintroduction to the team helped Barbet and Hall but its allowed Warburton to explore a 3-5-2 formation that appears to suit the players. However I think today you're a little harsh on Barbet as he made 2 crucial last ditch interventions that prevented almost certain goals. Usually my heart is in my mouth when he tackles in the box but today he timed them to perfection.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 02:48 - Sep 15 with 2168 viewsBenny_the_Ball

There's a lot of talk about the defenders on this thread yet little to no mention of Lumley. Whilst I understand that he's learning his trade, he's made a few mistakes already this season and today's error was simply unacceptable. He needs to buck up his ideas fast otherwise I can see him losing his spot to Kelly.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 07:16 - Sep 15 with 2060 viewsjonno

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 23:22 - Sep 14 by DavieQPR

The whole team got to cocky after going 3-0 up. Passes were going to where players were 10secs ago instead of looking. They stopped moving for the out ball. The final pass or running just stopped. But in that first 30mins no team in this division would have lived with us. Lumley's error changed the whole game.


Totally agree. Some over confidence started to creep in, something which I notice happens a lot with Lumley and in his case it is often fatal as we saw yesterday. We played superbly for the first 35 minutes with the ball, but also crucially we were closing down very quickly and winning the ball to regain possession as soon as we lost it - the best I've seen for a long time. We simply weren't giving them a chance to play, but the mistake by the keeper knocked our confidence a bit, and gave them some hope. We then stopped pressing as we had been - the manager calls it "intensity" - which gave them the opportunity to start playing a bit of football. Good things is, we will learn from that and it hasn't cost us any points.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 08:08 - Sep 15 with 1958 viewsMelakaRanger

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 23:22 - Sep 14 by DavieQPR

The whole team got to cocky after going 3-0 up. Passes were going to where players were 10secs ago instead of looking. They stopped moving for the out ball. The final pass or running just stopped. But in that first 30mins no team in this division would have lived with us. Lumley's error changed the whole game.


Yes thats how I saw it. That 'pass' by Lumley was that of someone who had almost switched off. Until that error Luton were on the ropes and were probably expecting a 7 nil thrashing. That Lumley gift of a goal changed the game immediately. After their second I am sure Luton felt they could win the game. They stepped up the pressure and we seemed to panic.

And how Hughill missed by blasting over the goal, not once but twice is unbelievable.

Loads of positives from the match and as others have said I am sure MW is working on the defence 'issues'.

One thing I observed about Luton. They played football, proper football without having one or two 'nasty' players on the pitch. This allowed us to play too. Many of our recent opponents have used a 'hitman' or two to target some of our players with constant fouls, nasty digs/pushes/studs (usually whilst ref looking away) thus constantly stopping our flow.

Yesterday I saw none of that and I saw a really good, flowing game. I'm sure Millwall will have watched our previous few games and will have a hard man or two digging awat at Eze/Manning/Chair.

All in all though. Rock on!
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 08:17 - Sep 15 with 1935 viewsQPROslo

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 20:44 - Sep 14 by Hunterhoop

And Barbet’s error and foul on 89 when he let Collins get behind him from a long keeper’s punt??

Exos, you are a knowledge man and I have lots of respect for your posts, but if you think Barber was better at CB today, IMO, you have no idea about defending.

Leistner marshalled that team. He also man marked Collins out of the game.

Lumley was at fault for the first, obviously.

Manning the second (switched off), but it was Barbet’s man who scored. Then he made that stupid foul in the last few minutes. Barbet’s distribution was also palpably worse!

Toni set up the second with a glorious pass, one of many.

If you think Barber (or anyone on that pitch today) was a better centre half than a Leistner, I am concerned for you.


I thought it was Hall who had switched off and let someone in behind him and had to give a free kick right outside our box near the end. Leistner made as bad an error as Lumley, but Lumley was alert to it, but he was mainly solid and delivered the 2nd goal. But I thought Barbet was our best defender today,
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 08:58 - Sep 15 with 1847 viewsHunterhoop

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 02:48 - Sep 15 by Benny_the_Ball

There's a lot of talk about the defenders on this thread yet little to no mention of Lumley. Whilst I understand that he's learning his trade, he's made a few mistakes already this season and today's error was simply unacceptable. He needs to buck up his ideas fast otherwise I can see him losing his spot to Kelly.


Fair assessment. The goal he gave away shook him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Warburton gave Kelly a go, if i’m honest. Joe not coming for any crosses in that second half, allreoeatedly sling into the 6 yard box was Green esque and asking for trouble.

I want Lumley to make it, but he does need to up it.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 09:05 - Sep 15 with 1822 viewsHunterhoop

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 02:44 - Sep 15 by Benny_the_Ball

Hunter, generally speaking I agree that BFG is a better defender than Barbet. Not only has his reintroduction to the team helped Barbet and Hall but its allowed Warburton to explore a 3-5-2 formation that appears to suit the players. However I think today you're a little harsh on Barbet as he made 2 crucial last ditch interventions that prevented almost certain goals. Usually my heart is in my mouth when he tackles in the box but today he timed them to perfection.


Yes, he made two good tackles, but a yard deeper and that tug back on the 92min would be a pen and two points lost.

This mistake everyone keeps referencing? Is it the one when he got tackled in the first half? If so, that was Hall’s error! He held his hand up secret wards. Their bloke closed down Lumley who passed it over him to Hall, their bloke trots back to get onside towards Leistner, from behind, and Hall inexplicably passes it to Leistner when he’s being closed down on his blindside. It was a stupid pass, not on, and asking or trouble. If Toni was aware he was being closed down, he should have wellied it, but he’s obviously under instruction not to.

I judge my defenders on how often the best their forward to the ball; how well they defend. He constantly beat Collins to everything. Barbet and Hall didn’t actually have a direct man to mark. They both did some good stuff and some bad stuff. But no way could I see either dominate a no. 9 like Toni did.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 09:09 - Sep 15 with 1801 viewsHunterhoop

Oh, and Toni’s assist was the 2nd wasn’t half bad! If Barbet has done that, people would be saying that is why he is in the side!

Toni played some lovely cross field passes to Manning too. Messed one up, which is no worse than Barbet does. Being the middle of the 3, it was often on him to stride forward and play passes into Eze, Chair, Hugill and Wells, which he did very well. The bloke had not just suddenly learnt to pass in 2 weeks! He’s always been able to pass but our set up and style did not ask it of him nor suit it last season.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 09:18 - Sep 15 with 1785 viewsEsox_Lucius

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 02:48 - Sep 15 by Benny_the_Ball

There's a lot of talk about the defenders on this thread yet little to no mention of Lumley. Whilst I understand that he's learning his trade, he's made a few mistakes already this season and today's error was simply unacceptable. He needs to buck up his ideas fast otherwise I can see him losing his spot to Kelly.


I can't, having seen Kelly in all his appearances for us so far he isn't even half as good as Joe. We all saw how good a shot stopper Lumley was when he broke into the team and that was because he was given so much to do by the defence we had. Now he is having to learn a new facet to his game and it isn't a natural progression for him, albeit he is improving as the season goes on, and a mistake is going to happen.
Not for the purposes of digging them out but; Manning, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, BFG, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Kane, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Eze lost the ball a few times throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Hugill failed to put 3-4 reasonably easy chances away throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal... you see where I am going with this? Half the team made more mistakes than Joe but due to the nature of his position he is getting hung out to dry with no mitigation.
Looking at the highlights it looks as though Barbet gets caught with two players to mark because Manning hasn't made it back into defence (or whoever was supposed to be covering him as he pushed forward).

The grass is always greener.

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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 12:30 - Sep 15 with 1636 viewsterryb

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 08:17 - Sep 15 by QPROslo

I thought it was Hall who had switched off and let someone in behind him and had to give a free kick right outside our box near the end. Leistner made as bad an error as Lumley, but Lumley was alert to it, but he was mainly solid and delivered the 2nd goal. But I thought Barbet was our best defender today,


I thought it was Hall as well. It was certainly in his position.

If it was Barbet, I weould like to know ahat had happened to our defence for Barbet to have been the right side defender. Surely, Toni would have moved there & Barbet to the centre? It would also mean that Hall was out of position at a late stage of the match.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 15:49 - Sep 15 with 1537 viewsQPROslo

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 12:30 - Sep 15 by terryb

I thought it was Hall as well. It was certainly in his position.

If it was Barbet, I weould like to know ahat had happened to our defence for Barbet to have been the right side defender. Surely, Toni would have moved there & Barbet to the centre? It would also mean that Hall was out of position at a late stage of the match.


It was Hall - he got a yellow card for it, 2nd minute of added on time.
[Post edited 15 Sep 2019 15:51]
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 17:15 - Sep 15 with 1479 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 09:18 - Sep 15 by Esox_Lucius

I can't, having seen Kelly in all his appearances for us so far he isn't even half as good as Joe. We all saw how good a shot stopper Lumley was when he broke into the team and that was because he was given so much to do by the defence we had. Now he is having to learn a new facet to his game and it isn't a natural progression for him, albeit he is improving as the season goes on, and a mistake is going to happen.
Not for the purposes of digging them out but; Manning, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, BFG, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Kane, several bad passes throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Eze lost the ball a few times throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal, Hugill failed to put 3-4 reasonably easy chances away throughout the game but didn't cost us a goal... you see where I am going with this? Half the team made more mistakes than Joe but due to the nature of his position he is getting hung out to dry with no mitigation.
Looking at the highlights it looks as though Barbet gets caught with two players to mark because Manning hasn't made it back into defence (or whoever was supposed to be covering him as he pushed forward).


I think you have a point about the nature of the position but I don't think it applies in this case as Joe was at least 30 yards from his goal line, under no pressure and with ample time to examine his options. That said, I'd give Joe one more chance but make it clear that he needs to cut out these silly errors if he wants to retain the shirt.
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Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 17:22 - Sep 15 with 1466 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Sort out our defence ,,,,, on 09:05 - Sep 15 by Hunterhoop

Yes, he made two good tackles, but a yard deeper and that tug back on the 92min would be a pen and two points lost.

This mistake everyone keeps referencing? Is it the one when he got tackled in the first half? If so, that was Hall’s error! He held his hand up secret wards. Their bloke closed down Lumley who passed it over him to Hall, their bloke trots back to get onside towards Leistner, from behind, and Hall inexplicably passes it to Leistner when he’s being closed down on his blindside. It was a stupid pass, not on, and asking or trouble. If Toni was aware he was being closed down, he should have wellied it, but he’s obviously under instruction not to.

I judge my defenders on how often the best their forward to the ball; how well they defend. He constantly beat Collins to everything. Barbet and Hall didn’t actually have a direct man to mark. They both did some good stuff and some bad stuff. But no way could I see either dominate a no. 9 like Toni did.


As I said earlier I totally agree that Toni is a better defender and the defence has benefited from his reintegration into the team. It was also nice to see him destroy the myth that he can't pass; the assist for Well's first goal was quality. My only concern with Toni is a chronic lack of pace but having 2 quicker central defenders alongside him helps mitigate this risk.

I've also made my thoughts on Barbet clear in earlier threads. The jury is still out for me as he's had some poor games but yesterday I thought he was better. Not perfect, granted, but an improvement on previous displays.
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